The anonymity of Guild Wars 2 and the degredation of social MMO's

Karteli · September 2012

Guild Wars 2 is a very fun game, and I've clocked a couple hundred hours in already. I believe I can live with mostly solo questing with random group members coming and going, since the dynamic events are, for the most part, entertaining.

But at the end of the day, I'm still all alone. I've joined guilds, but they are not the guilds I want to be in. In fact, the only way I found out about them was either they recruited in a local map chat, or sent me a private tell, "Hey want to join our guild, we do lots". No they don't do lots and they aren't the guild for me - they just wanted me to represent so they can get their influence points.

So how can I actually find a guild that does stuff? A guild that goes places I want to go?

In WoW I could use a /who command to see what guilds were currently in a particular place, like a raid dungeon. I could then look at the guilds who did them over the course of a week and actively try to become an initiate with one of them. With Guild Wars 2, they is no character search commands that I am aware of. No /who. So I don't really know who is ACTUALLY doing what and on what time frame they are doing it, like evenings for me, or late night. There is just no way of knowing anything .. ANYTHING about other players in GW2. There are no raids in GW2, but what dungeons or end zones does a guild fancy, and at what times?

I have a feeling ArenaNet put search restrictions in to prevent people learning too much about the number of gamers currently playing the game. They might have learned something from SWTOR, where the /who command in conjunction with every zone could prove that only 500 players exist on a server to be labeled as "Heavy" (big embarassment). This masking of numbers might help their business hide true numbers, but it also hurts players. I want the tools to search guilds, players and occupants of current zones.

This game is brilliant in most aspects, but the social tools are severely lacking. So the perfect MMORPG as it stands, it not really GW2, but some features of GW2 + some features of WoW + some features of EQ + some features of SWG + some features of many other games. There is still yet to be the best MMORPG of all time - take note developers.

I hope ArenaNet can shape it up to be the best game all around, and not just the best in some areas. As it is, this game feels very limiting.

Scalpless · September 2012

You should look for a good guild on a forum. The ones that accept anyone and spam in-game chat tend to suck.

delete5230 · September 2012

Originally posted by Karteli
Guild Wars 2 is a very fun game, and I've clocked a couple hundred hours in already. I believe I can live with mostly solo questing with random group members coming and going, since the dynamic events are, for the most part, entertaining.

But at the end of the day, I'm still all alone. I've joined guilds, but they are not the guilds I want to be in. In fact, the only way I found out about them was either they recruited in a local map chat, or sent me a private tell, "Hey want to join our guild, we do lots". No they don't do lots and they aren't the guild for me - they just wanted me to represent so they can get their influence points.

So how can I actually find a guild that does stuff? A guild that goes places I want to go?

In WoW I could use a /who command to see what guilds were currently in a particular place, like a raid dungeon. I could then look at the guilds who did them over the course of a week and actively try to become an initiate with one of them. With Guild Wars 2, they is no character search commands that I am aware of. No /who. So I don't really know who is ACTUALLY doing what and on what time frame they are doing it, like evenings for me, or late night. There is just no way of knowing anything .. ANYTHING about other players in GW2. There are no raids in GW2, but what dungeons or end zones does a guild fancy, and at what times?

I have a feeling ArenaNet put search restrictions in to prevent people learning too much about the number of gamers currently playing the game. They might have learned something from SWTOR, where the /who command in conjunction with every zone could prove that only 500 players exist on a server to be labeled as "Heavy" (big embarassment). This masking of numbers might help their business hide true numbers, but it also hurts players. I want the tools to search guilds, players and occupants of current zones.

This game is brilliant in most aspects, but the social tools are severely lacking. So the perfect MMORPG as it stands, it not really GW2, but some features of GW2 + some features of WoW + some features of EQ + some features of SWG + some features of many other games. There is still yet to be the best MMORPG of all time - take note developers.

I hope ArenaNet can shape it up to be the best game all around, and not just the best in some areas. As it is, this game feels very limiting.

I agree with everything. I really like the game but the social is shot.

Karteli · September 2012

Originally posted by Scalpless
You should look for a good guild on a forum. The ones that accept anyone and spam in-game chat tend to suck.

Aye.

Just as an anecdotal example in WoW .. I would or get chatty with other players and once I determined they were friendly and in the same game mind-set as me, I could do a /who on their entire guild to see if it was high levels or just a bunch of lowbies. If they were high level I might join them, or if they were all lower than us, then I might ask the person if they want to join another guild together, or start one.

There is something about open knowledge and available information that adds to a games depth and complexity for me. I guess. If everything is hidden, it doesn't feel like I'm getting the most out of a particular game, in this case GW2.

I had trouble inspecting other players too .. is this also not possible?

Vesavius · September 2012

Originally posted by Karteli
Guild Wars 2 is a very fun game, and I've clocked a couple hundred hours in already. I believe I can live with mostly solo questing with random group members coming and going, since the dynamic events are, for the most part, entertaining.

But at the end of the day, I'm still all alone. I've joined guilds, but they are not the guilds I want to be in. In fact, the only way I found out about them was either they recruited in a local map chat, or sent me a private tell. So how can I actually find a guild that does stuff? A guild that goes places I want to go?

In WoW I could use a /who command to see what guilds were currently in a particular place, like a raid dungeon. I could then look at the guilds who did them over the course of a week and actively try to become an initiate with one of them. With Guild Wars 2, they is no character search commands that I am aware of. No /who

This game is brilliant in most aspects, but the social tools are severely lacking. So the perfect MMORPG as it stands, it not really GW2, but some features of GW2 + some features of WoW + some features of EQ + some features of SWG + some features of many other games. There is still yet to be the best MMORPG of all time - take note developers.

I have to admit I have been pretty much been playing the game like a solo RPG myself... I mean, a really fun and entertaining solo RPG, but a solo RPG nonetheless.

I simply didnt need a guild for anything... I am a core PvEer so didn't care much for WvW (even when I could get it) and the dungeons were really easy to get PUGs for, so it didn't seem worth the bother. When I wanted to chat, I chatted in /map. I didn't ever feel the pull to join a larger group.

To be REALLY honest, I think the group PvE content (dungeons really) in the game is pretty lacking, so it's not something I want to do over and over anyhow. It is really the main reason while, right now, GW2 won't be my PvE game of choice for more then a few months. I am really enjoying it right now though, in my own style.

I also agree with the poor social tools... it's a shame. They could do worse then play EQ2 (and others) for a while and look at how to properly implement these.

It seems sometwhat that the group PvE aspect of the game has been somewhat tacked on... their focus seemed to be PvP and their single player PvE open world. it dosen't seem to be ANet's area of passion at all.

When I am done with my single player romp through this game, in about another month or so probably, I will put it on the back burner while I play FFXIV as my 'A' game, returning to it when they drop an expeck or whatever,

GreenishBlue · September 2012

Your best bet is to use the /map chat and ask...I find most guilds to be influence leechers.

Xzen · September 2012

I'm in a good guild. We shoot the breeze and we run some dungeons from time to time. But guilds don't really have any purpose in this game. I feel that guild progression is something that the mmorpg genre has been needing for a long time now and the only places where guilds shine are in sandboxes.

Hell_Hammer · September 2012

For a game that's called Guild Wars, there certainly isn't any real point to being in a guild, as far as I can see.

Besides, you can be in a few guilds at the same time, that kills the loyalty to your comrades.

Dunno, it is a rather lonely experience, but MMOs evolve and so will this one and things may change.

In the mean time, it's still fun to me, so no serious complaints.

lunarwitch00 · September 2012

kinda like it the way it is

about time you can invisible if you like

no inspect yes please

social stuff can stay on social sites.

lol kinda funny even this is moreless one

talk to people you will find a guild, there are systems in place to communicate pretty well. use them

and dont get me wrong there could be a few improvements but the current stuff works perfectly fine. unless you never played anything where using chat actually matters and talking to others really does wonders.

and really ive seen more talking chatting done in this game then others in along time

aRtFuLThinG · September 2012

Originally posted by Karteli
In WoW I could use a /who command to see what guilds were currently in a particular place, like a raid dungeon. I could then look at the guilds who did them over the course of a week and actively try to become an initiate with one of them. With Guild Wars 2, they is no character search commands that I am aware of. No /who. So I don't really know who is ACTUALLY doing what and on what time frame they are doing it, like evenings for me, or late night. There is just no way of knowing anything .. ANYTHING about other players in GW2. There are no raids in GW2, but what dungeons or end zones does a guild fancy, and at what times?

I have a feeling ArenaNet put search restrictions in to prevent people learning too much about the number of gamers currently playing the game.

Don't think that is the reason. Don't think they are as obsessed about player numbers as the actual playerbase themselves.

In WoW and in Swtor there has been many instances where people bring their pvp grief outside of pvp and track/grief guilds or people in pve.

I think Anet is trying to prevent that by maintaining some sort of privacy.

I think that's the same reason why you can not id enemy players by name in WvW as well.

Of course there is a downside to that though - for people don't mind being griefed they can't create a reputation for themselves in the game, as they can't be recognised/identified by name.

Nadia · September 2012

Originally posted by Karteli
Originally posted by Scalpless
You should look for a good guild on a forum. The ones that accept anyone and spam in-game chat tend to suck.

Aye.

many guilds in GW1 relied on GW1 fansites to do recruiting, that exists for GW2 too

GW2Guru forum where guilds recruit

http://www.guildwars2guru.com/forum/47-guild-recruitment/

section on this site too

http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/forum/1133/Guild-Recruitment.html

Yakkin · September 2012

From what little I understand of this topic so far, ArenaNet seems to be aiming for privacy over prestige. Can't really blame them either considering the incredible degree of elitism that usually occurs as a result of being able to inspect someone.

To be fair the tool can be used for less nefarious reasons, but I have never really seen that be the case.

Castillle · September 2012

...

Click Me

Karteli · September 2012

Originally posted by aRtFuLThinG
Originally posted by Karteli
In WoW I could use a /who command to see what guilds were currently in a particular place, like a raid dungeon. I could then look at the guilds who did them over the course of a week and actively try to become an initiate with one of them. With Guild Wars 2, they is no character search commands that I am aware of. No /who. So I don't really know who is ACTUALLY doing what and on what time frame they are doing it, like evenings for me, or late night. There is just no way of knowing anything .. ANYTHING about other players in GW2. There are no raids in GW2, but what dungeons or end zones does a guild fancy, and at what times?

I have a feeling ArenaNet put search restrictions in to prevent people learning too much about the number of gamers currently playing the game.

Don't think that is the reason. Don't think they are as obsessed about player numbers as the actual playerbase themselves.

In WoW and in Swtor there has been many instances where people bring their pvp grief outside of pvp and track/grief guilds or people in pve.

I think Anet is trying to prevent that by maintaining some sort of privacy.

I think that's the same reason why you can not id enemy players by name in WvW as well.

Of course there is a downside to that though - for people don't mind being griefed they can't create a reputation for themselves in the game, as they can't be recognised/identified by name.

Rivalry is part of social interaction in any context. Maybe you hit it with GW2, there is no grief .. without grief there is no revenge or recourse of action .. everythin postforward is simply passive. No emotion, no anger, no involvement with the community....

This sounds like the issue I have. Maybe this game is just more casual than I thought it would be. ugh

Zecktorin · September 2012

Originally posted by Karteli
Guild Wars 2 is a very fun game, and I've clocked a couple hundred hours in already. I believe I can live with mostly solo questing with random group members coming and going, since the dynamic events are, for the most part, entertaining.

But at the end of the day, I'm still all alone. I've joined guilds, but they are not the guilds I want to be in. In fact, the only way I found out about them was either they recruited in a local map chat, or sent me a private tell, "Hey want to join our guild, we do lots". No they don't do lots and they aren't the guild for me - they just wanted me to represent so they can get their influence points.

So how can I actually find a guild that does stuff? A guild that goes places I want to go?

In WoW I could use a /who command to see what guilds were currently in a particular place, like a raid dungeon. I could then look at the guilds who did them over the course of a week and actively try to become an initiate with one of them. With Guild Wars 2, they is no character search commands that I am aware of. No /who. So I don't really know who is ACTUALLY doing what and on what time frame they are doing it, like evenings for me, or late night. There is just no way of knowing anything .. ANYTHING about other players in GW2. There are no raids in GW2, but what dungeons or end zones does a guild fancy, and at what times?

I have a feeling ArenaNet put search restrictions in to prevent people learning too much about the number of gamers currently playing the game. They might have learned something from SWTOR, where the /who command in conjunction with every zone could prove that only 500 players exist on a server to be labeled as "Heavy" (big embarassment). This masking of numbers might help their business hide true numbers, but it also hurts players. I want the tools to search guilds, players and occupants of current zones.

This game is brilliant in most aspects, but the social tools are severely lacking. So the perfect MMORPG as it stands, it not really GW2, but some features of GW2 + some features of WoW + some features of EQ + some features of SWG + some features of many other games. There is still yet to be the best MMORPG of all time - take note developers.

I hope ArenaNet can shape it up to be the best game all around, and not just the best in some areas. As it is, this game feels very limiting.

Lol that is a lie about 500 people being on a sever on SWTOR for it to be heavy. The population number you see is per phase.... I learned this the other night by switching phases. population on corcusant went from 201 to 10 in like 1 second after I loaded the phase. Each phase holds about 250 players and last night there were 2 full phases and 1 phase with 230 players on the republic station alone. Don't lie with your hate.

However to your original problem. Yeah I agree it would be nice to have a search function. You seem to use /who the same same ways I do. Best way to do it is to let it be known to devs a lot of players want it and a lot of players do. Until then you have to just have a trial period with guilds to see if they are gonna work. Have fun with the game a good guild will come around for you soon enough or maybe the search feature. Wish you luck!

gordiflu · September 2012

When leveling to cap takes months, games are group oriented and players stay in a game for years, communities just appear and your reputation is valuabe (so the dbags get ignored quickly).

But now games are solo oriented, you cap level in a few weeks playing casually and ppl hop from game to game every couple of months. Communities just vanish and dbags grief as much as they want.

This is not a GW2's problem, but actually something general.

Karteli · September 2012

Originally posted by Enigmatus
From what little I understand of this topic so far, ArenaNet seems to be aiming for privacy over prestige. Can't really blame them either considering the incredible degree of elitism that usually occurs as a result of being able to inspect someone.

To be fair the tool can be used for less nefarious reasons, but I have never really seen that be the case.

Never seen it used for a "/who all East Plaguelands", "/who all <any_guild>" .. or for leveling "/who 10-15" ?

Those are pretty nefarious uses. One shows all players in a zone, the next shows all players tagged with a guild, and the last shows players in your level range that you might ask to group with.

Put your elitism aside. Social tools are a basic staple of MMORPG's, started with EQ and expanded upon with WoW. These are social tools, and with every tool you can use it for bad results. But give players a garage and tell them that hammers aren't allowed because people might hit each other and it no longer is a garage. It's just a room where people stand around and don't work together to fix stuff anymore.

Yakkin · September 2012

Originally posted by Karteli
Originally posted by Enigmatus
From what little I understand of this topic so far, ArenaNet seems to be aiming for privacy over prestige. Can't really blame them either considering the incredible degree of elitism that usually occurs as a result of being able to inspect someone.

To be fair the tool can be used for less nefarious reasons, but I have never really seen that be the case.

Put your elitism aside. Social tools are a basic staple of MMORPG's, started with EQ and expanded upon with WoW. These are social tools, and with every tool you can use it for bad results. But give players a garage and tell them that hammers aren't allowed because people might hit each other and it no longer is a garage. It's just a room where people stand around and don't work together to fix stuff anymore.

Elitism? I'm just saying these tools can be misused; how the hell is that elitism?

Karteli · September 2012

Originally posted by Zecktorin

Lol that is a lie about 500 people being on a sever on SWTOR for it to be heavy. The population number you see is per phase.... I learned this the other night by switching phases. population on corcusant went from 201 to 10 in like 1 second after I loaded the phase. Each phase holds about 250 players and last night there were 2 full phases and 1 phase with 230 players on the republic station alone. Don't lie with your hate.

Not really .. 500 people is heavy in SWTOR. There might be another faction to consider, but nobody has real contact with them anyways outside of instanced PVP so it doesn't matter. Most of the people are on the fleet, yes. So 1000 on a server, 500 per faction is heavy. Pretty lame.

Karteli · September 2012

Originally posted by Enigmatus
Originally posted by Karteli
Originally posted by Enigmatus
From what little I understand of this topic so far, ArenaNet seems to be aiming for privacy over prestige. Can't really blame them either considering the incredible degree of elitism that usually occurs as a result of being able to inspect someone.

To be fair the tool can be used for less nefarious reasons, but I have never really seen that be the case.

Put your elitism aside. Social tools are a basic staple of MMORPG's, started with EQ and expanded upon with WoW. These are social tools, and with every tool you can use it for bad results. But give players a garage and tell them that hammers aren't allowed because people might hit each other and it no longer is a garage. It's just a room where people stand around and don't work together to fix stuff anymore.

Elitism? I'm just saying these tools can be misused; how the hell is that elitism?

It is in blue. You state that you can't blame ArenaNet for not including tools because of the elitism. I'm not saying you are elitist, I'm saying to put aside your views on elitism.

And by your standards, video games can be misued too. Drug busts in the past have been linked to WoW accounts. So we should shut down video games, because they can be misused.

I think MORE people enjoy the social tools than the few who don't. The few who don't enjoy social tools likely don't play much anyways / don't get involed with games for longevity?

Loke666 · September 2012

Originally posted by aRtFuLThinG
Originally posted by Karteli
In WoW I could use a /who command to see what guilds were currently in a particular place, like a raid dungeon. I could then look at the guilds who did them over the course of a week and actively try to become an initiate with one of them. With Guild Wars 2, they is no character search commands that I am aware of. No /who. So I don't really know who is ACTUALLY doing what and on what time frame they are doing it, like evenings for me, or late night. There is just no way of knowing anything .. ANYTHING about other players in GW2. There are no raids in GW2, but what dungeons or end zones does a guild fancy, and at what times?

I have a feeling ArenaNet put search restrictions in to prevent people learning too much about the number of gamers currently playing the game.

Don't think that is the reason. Don't think they are as obsessed about player numbers as the actual playerbase themselves.

In WoW and in Swtor there has been many instances where people bring their pvp grief outside of pvp and track/grief guilds or people in pve.

I think Anet is trying to prevent that by maintaining some sort of privacy.

I think that's the same reason why you can not id enemy players by name in WvW as well.

Of course there is a downside to that though - for people don't mind being griefed they can't create a reputation for themselves in the game, as they can't be recognised/identified by name.

Agreed.

But there are plenty of social things they could do that would help a little. Like in EQ2 when someone got their cool unique weapon, the chat showed who and from which guild. That promoted the guild in a positive way and gave players something to brag a little about.

Some stuff like that would be nice, not too much but a little. Put up statues of the 5 best WvWvW players of the month in LA with name and guild for example.

grimal · September 2012

I agree with some points.

1) Its a good game

2) the social aspect is severely lacking

I've said this before...they did a great job in bringing group activities together. Problem is, the lack of trinity and complexity of most of these activites, communication is unnecessary. I've had a lot of fun in this game, but it really feels like a solo coop experience. Heck, I've had more communication in Diablo 3.

Unless you have a group of people you go into this game with, chances are it's going to feel a lot like riding the subway: people around, but no one's talking. There's nothing wrong with that; it's just the type of game it is.

Yakkin · September 2012

Originally posted by Karteli
Originally posted by Enigmatus
Originally posted by Karteli
Originally posted by Enigmatus
From what little I understand of this topic so far, ArenaNet seems to be aiming for privacy over prestige. Can't really blame them either considering the incredible degree of elitism that usually occurs as a result of being able to inspect someone.

To be fair the tool can be used for less nefarious reasons, but I have never really seen that be the case.

Put your elitism aside. Social tools are a basic staple of MMORPG's, started with EQ and expanded upon with WoW. These are social tools, and with every tool you can use it for bad results. But give players a garage and tell them that hammers aren't allowed because people might hit each other and it no longer is a garage. It's just a room where people stand around and don't work together to fix stuff anymore.

Elitism? I'm just saying these tools can be misused; how the hell is that elitism?

It is in blue. You state that you can't blame ArenaNet for not including tools because of the elitism. I'm not saying you are elitist, I'm saying to put aside your views on elitism.

And by your standards, video games can be misued too. Drug busts in the past have been linked to WoW accounts. So we should shut down video games, because they can be misused.

I think MORE people enjoy the social tools than the few who don't. The few who don't enjoy social tools likely don't play much anyways / don't get involed with games for longevity?

Fine, fair enough. Just an unpleasant experience involving the misuse of these tools left me feeling a little...

chryses · September 2012

My RL is fking mental so gaming time is sparodic at best. GW2 has had the opposite effect for me as far as social. Its a game that draws people together and I haven't played with so many people so often in an MMO before. (e.g. DE's etc)

However for the more old school interaction with guilds/social chat etc. I can see that GW2 does make it easy not to do that but you can still find it easily enough.

I have had some great moments in GW2 where I have saved and been saved by wandering players. You might want to chat but then something kicks off and you both run out to engage.

Bladestrom · September 2012

Man this thread is weird, Examining someone's stats on their gear is not social it's about judgement. Not joining a guild because it is full of 'lowbies' is not social. Not 'needing' to be in a guild is not being social either. Being social is about being friendly and being prepared to join communities Because they are and friendly - their skill level does not come into it. Re doing dungeons, sure you can do it without chatting mutch, but that is anti social. You do dungeons because you enjoy working together in a group and being social.

Karteli · September 2012

Originally posted by chryses
My RL is fking mental so gaming time is sparodic at best. GW2 has had the opposite effect for me as far as social. Its a game that draws people together and I haven't played with so many people so often in an MMO before. (e.g. DE's etc)

However for the more old school interaction with guilds/social chat etc. I can see that GW2 does make it easy not to do that but you can still find it easily enough.

I have had some great moments in GW2 where I have saved and been saved by wandering players. You might want to chat but then something kicks off and you both run out to engage.

The "saving" player gets experience for saving you :P .. Take that away ....:P

Nobody says anything either way ... either they pass you and it's nothing personal .. or they save you and get the xp then run away. Nobody even knew your name.

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The anonymity of Guild Wars 2 and the degredation of social MMO's

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The anonymity of Guild Wars 2 and the degredation of social MMO's

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