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SWTOR - a success.

13

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  • KyleranKyleran Tampa, FLPosts: 20,004Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by RavingRabbid
    Originally posted by Tardcore
    Originally posted by RavingRabbid

    I dont give a crap if it tried to beat wow, made millions, ppl quit management, or whatever. SWTOR is a success because Im still playing it and enjoying the game. Thats all that matters to me. 

     

     

    I'm callin a big stinky fliy infested pile oh crap on this one mate. Why you ask? Well you are lying about one thing or another. You CAN'T be playing SWTOR as it says right under your picture Rabbids CAN'T play MMOs. That or you've been lying to us all along and Rabbids CAN indeed play MMOs and now our games have become secretly infested with the floppy eared, plungergun toting bastards. You know now that I think about it I've yet to ever see you dance a single step. Your whole life has been a tissue of lies  HASN'T IT!!!!!????

    I rest my case.

    +1   you caught me...now I cant let you live! meet your doom by the soiled plunger!!!! DDDDDDDDDDAAAAAHHHHHHHHH!!!!

    I didn't really see a conflict, after all, SWTOR really is a giant single player game experience and not a proper MMO so of course Rabbids can play it. 

    Actually makes perfect sense when you think about it.  image

    In my day MMORPG's were so hard we fought our way through dungeons in the snow, uphill both ways.
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    Still currently "subscribed" to EVE, and only EVE!!!
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  • slickbizzleslickbizzle Matthews, NCPosts: 464Member
    Originally posted by lifeordinary

    Ok..i should let you know that every MMO i dislike is a failure and every MMO i love is a success.

    It is that simple.

     

    My thoughts exactly.

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,669Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Caldrin

    Well they sold millions of copies.. and i guess the polulation is pretty stable now..

    Can you link to data on that second part?

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
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  • zymurgeistzymurgeist Pittsville, VAPosts: 5,212Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Loktofeit
    Originally posted by Caldrin

    Well they sold millions of copies.. and i guess the polulation is pretty stable now..

    Can you link to data on that second part?

     I'd bet he's just guessing.

    Because, you know, he said he was guessing.

    /facepalm

    "Strong and bitter words indicate a weak cause" ~Victor Hugo

  • daltaniousdaltanious waPosts: 2,145Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Kyleran
    Originally posted by RavingRabbid
    !!

    I didn't really see a conflict, after all, SWTOR really is a giant single player game experience and not a proper MMO so of course Rabbids can play it. 

    Actually makes perfect sense when you think about it.  image

    I guess you did not actually play, just bashing ... because as I have played for very long one of the best parts of swtor is that you can solo or group play until the end. Only class quests are mondatory and they are solo.

  • daltaniousdaltanious waPosts: 2,145Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Tardcore
    Originally posted by RavingRabbid

    I dont give a crap if it tried to beat wow, made millions, ppl quit management, or whatever. SWTOR is a success because Im still playing it and enjoying the game. Thats all that matters to me. 

     

     

    I'm callin a big stinky fliy infested pile oh crap on this one mate. Why you ask? Well you are lying about one thing or another. You CAN'T be playing SWTOR as it says right under your picture Rabbids CAN'T play MMOs. That or you've been lying to us all along and Rabbids CAN indeed play MMOs and now our games have become secretly infested with the floppy eared, plungergun toting bastards. You know now that I think about it I've yet to ever see you dance a single step. Your whole life has been a tissue of lies  HASN'T IT!!!!!????

    I rest my case.

    Ops, it looks somebody forgot to take pills lately ....

  • OldMMOGamerOldMMOGamer Evans, COPosts: 100Member
    My Lord.....Some of you people have way to much time writing essays on a game.  It's simple, Like a game play it, Dont like a game? Find one you like.  There simple.
  • KarahandrasKarahandras Sible HedinghamPosts: 1,675Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by LoverNoFighter
    Really??????

    Just old of mild curiosity who(apart from the fanboys) is/are claiming it's a success?

  • KarahandrasKarahandras Sible HedinghamPosts: 1,675Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Caldrin

    Well they sold millions of copies.. and i guess the polulation is pretty stable now..

    What would make it a sccess or failure in your eyes ?

     

     

    I think it's something like 2.5 mil copies sold.  Which seems good until you remember they spent something like 150 million dollars on advertising and so the copies sold would maybe have made half that back(if they were lucky) and that doesn't include develpment costs and license fee etc..  With that amount poured into advertising they really were expecting much more in the way of sales.

  • tiefighter25tiefighter25 Winchester, MAPosts: 937Member
    Originally posted by Karahandras
    Originally posted by Caldrin

    Well they sold millions of copies.. and i guess the polulation is pretty stable now..

    What would make it a sccess or failure in your eyes ?

     

     

    I think it's something like 2.5 mil copies sold.  Which seems good until you remember they spent something like 150 million dollars on advertising and so the copies sold would maybe have made half that back(if they were lucky) and that doesn't include develpment costs and license fee etc..  With that amount poured into advertising they really were expecting much more in the way of sales.

    Retail sale of the boxed game generally sees about a quarter of the shelf price wind up in the publishers cofers, not the whole $60. That's left out of a lot of rosy maths.

  • daltaniousdaltanious waPosts: 2,145Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Karahandras
    Originally posted by LoverNoFighter
    Really??????

    Just old of mild curiosity who(apart from the fanboys) is/are claiming it's a success?

    Define success. And which game by you since 2004 is real success apart that one? Btw, you would be very disturbed in case swtor would be success even by your standards?

  • VladamyreVladamyre South Shore, KYPosts: 225Member
    There will always be people that will think a game is a big success. When a game loses more then 80% of its playerbase within 6 months after release it can't really be called a success. That would be called a failure. SWTOR sold over 2 million copies. Two months later they claimed to have 1.2 million subs. Three months after that they were going free to play with less then 600k subs. Most likely they have less then 400k subs which puts them at a 80% loss in subs. So with an 80% loss in playerbase the game is a success? Bioware has already lost the two doctors, and many, many others in its executive branches. So how is this a success?

    In a world of sharp knives, you would be a spoon.

  • artemisentr4artemisentr4 fresno, CAPosts: 1,431Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Karahandras
    Originally posted by LoverNoFighter
    Really??????

    Just old of mild curiosity who(apart from the fanboys) is/are claiming it's a success?

    For me it was a success for my expectations. I wanted a solo oriented MMO with a SW story. I got that. Because I played through the stories while still crafting, buying and selling and grouping for Heroics or just with others in the same place as me so we didn't fight each other for objectives. But the game failed expectations overall from both fans and investers.

     

    The game will not die, it will continue for a few more years at least. It will be fun for someone like myself who is looking for this type of story driven gameplay. And it will be great with the F2P because I can get that without having to pay monthly. What they need to do is embrace the solo/heroic story and add new planets with a lot of content to buy once it goes F2P. Instead of Operation content, but they seem to be stuck with the current users wanting more ops.

    “How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them?”
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  • daltaniousdaltanious waPosts: 2,145Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by artemisentr4
    Originally posted by Karahandras
    Originally posted by LoverNoFighter
    Really??????

    Just old of mild curiosity who(apart from the fanboys) is/are claiming it's a success?

    For me it was a success for my expectations. I wanted a solo oriented MMO with a SW story. I got that. Because I played through the stories while still crafting, buying and selling and grouping for Heroics or just with others in the same place as me so we didn't fight each other for objectives. But the game failed expectations overall from both fans and investers.

     

    The game will not die, it will continue for a few more years at least. It will be fun for someone like myself who is looking for this type of story driven gameplay. And it will be great with the F2P because I can get that without having to pay monthly. What they need to do is embrace the solo/heroic story and add new planets with a lot of content to buy once it goes F2P. Instead of Operation content, but they seem to be stuck with the current users wanting more ops.

    Well, myself would never ever play game that I can not (mostly) solo. Period. I have a job, kids are grown but I have other things to attend to. An because of my job I can hardly plan when to play. I already play however to much. :-) So I never have found any fun in lfg-in for 2 hours just to had to go to sleep or to work at time when group was found. Never found any joy being unable to progress because of requirement of group for quest I wanted to to at 3 at night.

    I dare to say that group ONLY games (i mean forced gruping games) are DEAD. No ressurection available. No game today can have any success if not SOLO friendly. Hardly can come to my mind any game other then FF XI online where there is FORCED grouping and it is still alive. Ok, exception are very rare pvp only games with little or no questing at all. But that is exception.

    So gaming industry have simply followed flow of money.

    And really wondering when somebody says that SWTOR is solo game, if he/she have actually played at all. Because as I KNOW after 7 to 8 months playing it without interruptions that SWTOR can be soloed (as much as any other game with exception of FF XI) but also that one can level without single solo action (only mondatory for game progress are class quests that are solo). There are so many group possibilities that is just choice. Do not blame game if nobody want to use this choice.

    As I already repeated many times, SWTOR for me is best, most fun and complex game ever. I must however add that I could not care less for pvp and end game that I currently do. Second is WOW. Third ... well ... I guess Rift but GW2 aproaching very fast for fun and a lot of candy factor.

  • JobeArthurJobeArthur seattle, WAPosts: 38Member

    So l sets say the game has 500k to 750k subs, sure that would make it successful if not for the outrageously huge budget spent on the game, lets not forget how many of the 2.4 million sold are actual retail boxes and not from Origin through DL so you simply cant average $60x2.4mil as actual retailers do not sell at cost and with the CE,DE we may never know how much of the development cost was recouped with sales.

    Lets look at EVE for a sec compared to TOR, EVE has what about 350k-400k and for the most part the game is just a sandbox with over 7000 instances(each system is an instance dont be fooled but its a great illusion), complex player drivin economy, player control sov system ect ect, despite this its monthly operating costs are pretty low, and they dont need an army of devs trying to spoon feed content to the hungry babies, and plus the sub numbers are slowly rising again so good for them.

    CCP/EVE in reality are a huge success, It may be a niche game but what CCP has essentially  done is own a Major League Baseball team and play its players(operating costs) the league minimum and still end every season above .500, and make a play off run from time to time. TOR on the other hand payed Yankee type of cash and if they are lucky get in as a wild card and get blown out in the first series every time in a weak division.

    If you go back and read all the old quotes from the TOR team they had big plans to continue a short fast developement cycle with huge updates, not to layoff. The VO story was a high risk venture that did not pay off and i doubt they will continue to expand on it, plus i could go on forever how dysfuntional the game is, everything from OPVP, engine, bug busting, art design the list is to long to go on.

    I say its a huge falure just by budget alone but then you also add quality of final product, and actual game features, there is no way this game could have succeeded...And yes the bar was set pretty high as it was Star Wars and I honestly feel that the 2.4 million boxes sold needed to cross over to subs and build the game from there, but that did not happen they went the other way and i would bet the whole development proccess and ideas have changed and everything that was promised about the only selling point of the game (story and a Star Wars type of world) wont ever be touched as they turn this into the most expensive mini game lobby to date with the inevitably of it eventually going P2W.

    In the end the biggest falure is what Bioware/EA has done to Star Wars fans around the world we are stuck with this piece of garbage of a game with an inept dev team, producers and Im pretty sure we wont get another one despite the fact there is a huge demand for a good Star Wars MMO hopefully Lucasarts can see that someday and pull the trigger on this abomination. Its literally a tragedy what they have done to the Star Wars franchise and video games in general....

    The only thing good that comes out of Texas is beef, and its pretty awesome beef but as for Video games.... Not so much Star Wars game #2 down the crapper with a bad case of e coli..

    - Texas- killing Star Wars games since Combat Upgrade: April 27 2005.

  • OG_ZorvanOG_Zorvan Fresno, CAPosts: 615Member
    If the game was a "success" ( meaning it made back every dime spent on it for development/advertising/etc up to this point AND  holding/gaining subscribers not losing them ), EA wouldn't mention it in their quarterly reports by basically saying "Over there in the corner hiding we have SWToR."

    EA CEO John Riccitiello's on future microtransactions: "When you are six hours into playing Battlefield and you run out of ammo in your clip, and we ask you for a dollar to reload, you're really not very price sensitive at that point in time...We're not gouging, but we're charging."

  • daltaniousdaltanious waPosts: 2,145Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by JobeArthur

    .....

    Lets look at EVE for a sec compared to TOR, EVE has what about 350k-400k and for the most part the game is just a sandbox with over 7000 instances(each system is an instance dont be fooled but its a great illusion), complex player drivin economy, player control sov system ect ect, despite this its monthly operating costs are pretty low, and they dont need an army of devs trying to spoon feed content to the hungry babies, and plus the sub numbers are slowly rising again so good for them.

    CCP/EVE in reality are a huge success, It may be a niche game but what CCP has essentially  done is own a Major League Baseball team and play its players(operating costs) the league minimum and still end every season above .500, and make a play off run from time to time. TOR on the other hand payed Yankee type of cash and if they are lucky get in as a wild card and get blown out in the first series every time in a weak division.

    ......

    In the end the biggest falure is what Bioware/EA has done to Star Wars fans around the world we are stuck with this piece of garbage of a game with an inept dev team, producers and Im pretty sure we wont get another one despite the fact there is a huge demand for a good Star Wars MMO hopefully Lucasarts can see that someday and pull the trigger on this abomination. Its literally a tragedy what they have done to the Star Wars franchise and video games in general....

    The only thing good that comes out of Texas is beef, and its pretty awesome beef but as for Video games.... Not so much Star Wars game #2 down the crapper with a bad case of e coli..

    - Texas- killing Star Wars games since Combat Upgrade: April 27 2005.

    EVE? Not bashing it, but most boring game ever with no adrenaline action. At least this is what I look besides exploring in any mmo. Empty space of nothing. Ok, tried 3 times as I remember, but never more then few days before got bored to death. I'm happy to those who enjoy but sincerely is impossible to compare EVE to any MMO by complexity, manpower and all the rest invested. But I'm happy for those who enjoy and hope stay for long as I hope for any game. I do not wish doom to any game. Behind every single game there is a team of people, many putting their heart in soul in. Even if I may dislike a lot game.

    About "what they have done to SW..." I'm over 50 years now, whitnessed from first hand release even of 1st of SW movies ... SWTOR have incredible SW feeling, actually have been (and will still be, now I'm on short detour to play TSW, GW2, MOP, ...) enjoying every second just staying in game, even if only roaming around or staying on fleet station. Or encountering known characters. Or enjoying Tatooine or any other world.

    Maybe stupid, but I plan to continue to pay sub for SWTOR despite will not play now for at least few months. I do not swim in money but I really love so much this game that this is my decision.

    I hope for them more then for any game out there they stay for long, hoping for more of expansions.

    I'm also absolutely pro for sub based mmo's as only this guarantee fresh money every month, sallaries for emploeeys, keeping servers healthy, keeping good support, ... and investing more money for future expansions. If there is no sub, game must make money from something else ... usually this "something else" become cash shops with items that are usually more then mondatory.

    GW2 is actually first surprise of my life about quality of game that is P2P and where there I actually do not see any need to use cash shops if for vanity. Only expense that was mondatory for me was 30€ for 3 more slots so as altholic i can play all 8 professions. But at the end, people will have purchased all they wanted, there will be not so much new buyers for new copies of game, .... I just hope they will find enough money to continue this great game and prepare future expansions. GW2 is one of those rare games that would deserve to be sub based and where I would gladly pay.

  • War_AdmiralWar_Admiral Ladoga, INPosts: 16Member
    Really...a success...its F2p in less than a year.  Do I need to say anymore.
  • War_AdmiralWar_Admiral Ladoga, INPosts: 16Member

    EVE? Not bashing it, but most boring game ever with no adrenaline action. 

    Spoken like a true CAREBEAR!  Maybe undock in something other than a mining ship and acutally play the game or go back to playing WoW b/c the adrenaline rush is enough there to make you pass out.  I hear they have pandas playing the games now, should be right up your alley.

  • DraronDraron A town in, KYPosts: 993Member
    Originally posted by War_Admiral

    EVE? Not bashing it, but most boring game ever with no adrenaline action. 

    Spoken like a true CAREBEAR!  Maybe undock in something other than a mining ship and acutally play the game or go back to playing WoW b/c the adrenaline rush is enough there to make you pass out.  I hear they have pandas playing the games now, should be right up your alley.

    Tbh, this coming from someone who's played EVE for 6 months, EVE combat is just like a RTS with a single unit. The adrenaline you get from the fact you can lose your ship and such is nice, yes, but the combat itself is on the dull side unless you enjoy calculating distances and that stuff. And I like how you went into bashing other games when the person above specifically said not bashing. And here I thought EVE had a mature community.

  • tiefighter25tiefighter25 Winchester, MAPosts: 937Member
    Originally posted by Draron
    Originally posted by War_Admiral

    EVE? Not bashing it, but most boring game ever with no adrenaline action. 

    Spoken like a true CAREBEAR!  Maybe undock in something other than a mining ship and acutally play the game or go back to playing WoW b/c the adrenaline rush is enough there to make you pass out.  I hear they have pandas playing the games now, should be right up your alley.

    Tbh, this coming from someone who's played EVE for 6 months, EVE combat is just like a RTS with a single unit. The adrenaline you get from the fact you can lose your ship and such is nice, yes, but the combat itself is on the dull side unless you enjoy calculating distances and that stuff. And I like how you went into bashing other games when the person above specifically said not bashing. And here I thought EVE had a mature community.

    I think the EVE community claims to be a lot of things, but mature isn't one of them. R.I.P. Vile Rat.

  • ZigZagsZigZags Modesto, CAPosts: 328Member

    The game was a financial success probably. It seems like the box sales generated more than enough to cover its development expenses.

     

    However, the game really thought they could hang on to players, enough so to be a contender as a AAA mmo and that goal was not met or ever will be. In that regard it failed.

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  • Loke666Loke666 MalmöPosts: 18,007Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by War_Admiral

    EVE? Not bashing it, but most boring game ever with no adrenaline action. 

    Spoken like a true CAREBEAR!  Maybe undock in something other than a mining ship and acutally play the game or go back to playing WoW b/c the adrenaline rush is enough there to make you pass out.  I hear they have pandas playing the games now, should be right up your alley.

    Wow, so anyone not likeing exactly the same game as you are a carebear?

    For all we know he can be a Pre-trammel vet who thinks Eve is too carebearish (yeah, those actually exist).

    Try to not insult anyone who isnt exactly agreeing with you, we are all MMO players and we all know that if you went to a party with just jocks and a really carebearish TOR player that would be the person you spoke most to (at least most likely).

  • rivetman13rivetman13 mascoutah, ILPosts: 34Member
    I would consider it a success at failing and having the worst hype vs longevity of any mmorpg, close second would be D3
  • Loke666Loke666 MalmöPosts: 18,007Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by ZigZags

    The game was a financial success probably. It seems like the box sales generated more than enough to cover its development expenses.

    However, the game really thought they could hang on to players, enough so to be a contender as a AAA mmo and that goal was not met or ever will be. In that regard it failed.

    Actually, we are not 100% sure of that, particularly after counting away Lucas arts share.

    EA have been rather quiet aboutr anything financial. In april they said the game would be back to 2 million steady subs at the end of the year and 3 million at the end of next year, while in early august they just said it went F2P with not much comments beside that all MMOs would be soon.

    So it might have gotten EA back the money they put in, or not. Whatever the case it, that is not what EA consider "financial success" and I have to agree with them there. That is more "no total disaster"but people like EA dont put in money to break even, at least not on purpose.

    I would say that you need to get in at least a few dollars for each one you put in to call something a financial successs. And if that would be the case they wouldnt have changed the model so soon, it is risky because it might turn away current players and there is really no guarantee yoyu get new ones so it is more of a last resort this early in a games lifespan.

This discussion has been closed.