Worse Dungeon System I have ever played.

Kumate · September 2012

This game by far has blown me away in almost every category, the gameplay is fun and the world is bueatiful. The Dynamic events are a great way to level because there is no go fletch quest hubs and so on, but last night I tried a dungeon for the first time.

I was a a level 50 Ranger doing a level 40 CM story mode. I had heard the horror stories of how unorganized, zerg fest they were but I kept telling myself I've played MMO's for so long that it can't be that bad. It was, the lack of a trinity was clear right away.

When entering the zone we started thru the story. First mob is a Golem, solo, and didn't go to bad. One death by a warrior but we got him up fast. I'm thinking ok, not to shabby. Second group of mobs is where it all went downhill. Your first pull there is about 4-5 mobs. Each one of them are "elite" which means even if all 5 of us are attacking it, it takes about 45-60 seconds to burn it down. Except there is no way to do ANYTHING about the other 4 beating on you. There is no tanking, no offtanking, no CC that is worth it. Most CC in this game last 3 seconds maybe. So needless to say, nearly every pull was a wipe. We spent as much time rezing people as we did fighting.

We beat the dungeon, but our strat was to all attack one mob, burn it down hopefully before we wiped, and come back and do it again. We would burn the barrel placers first and so on.

I know that CM was made harder recenetly, but this was just storymode. I felt like I didn't learn anything from the story because I was to busy cringing at this system. There was NOTHING FUN about this dungeon. We also had a person quit and we had to replace them during this dungeon because he said (sorry guys..this dugeon system is horrible..I am going to uninstall).

My character was setup for PVE and grouping. I had healing spring with some points into healing, search and rescue to help with rezing and the healing spirit. There was no way to heal thru that damage. We also had a guardian and that helped some but just prolonged how long it took us to wipe.

I miss my healers, tanks, and true CC. I lost motivation to level now because I do enjoy PVE more then PVP and knowing that is all I have to look forward to in dungeons is quite dishearting. I love every other aspect of this game, crafting, quest, pvp, graphics, but this is to core of a system for me to overlook. There is a difference between core mehanics and difficulty. The core mechanics on dungeons is just broke. Even if they made it super easy and a zerg fest, there would still be no "skill" to the system. It is either boring no pay attention killing, or just a wipe and res as fast as you can event. I miss strategy.

KingJiggly · September 2012

Originally posted by Kumate
This game by far has blown me away in almost every category, the gameplay is fun and the world is bueatiful. The Dynamic events are a great way to level because there is no go fletch quest hubs and so on, but last night I tried a dungeon for the first time.

I was a a level 50 Ranger doing a level 40 CM story mode. I had heard the horror stories of how unorganized, zerg fest they were but I kept telling myself I've played MMO's for so long that it can't be that bad. It was, the lack of a trinity was clear right away.

When entering the zone we started thru the story. First mob is a Golem, solo, and didn't go to bad. One death by a warrior but we got him up fast. I'm thinking ok, not to shabby. Second group of mobs is where it all went downhill. Your first pull there is about 4-5 mobs. Each one of them are "elite" which means even if all 5 of us are attacking it, it takes about 45-60 seconds to burn it down. Except there is no way to do ANYTHING about the other 4 beating on you. There is no tanking, no offtanking, no CC that is worth it. Most CC in this game last 3 seconds maybe. So needless to say, nearly every pull was a wipe. We spent as much time rezing people as we did fighting.

We beat the dungeon, but our strat was to all attack one mob, burn it down hopefully before we wiped, and come back and do it again. We would burn the barrel placers first and so on.

I know that CM was made harder recenetly, but this was just storymode. I felt like I didn't learn anything from the story because I was to busy cringing at this system. There was NOTHING FUN about this dungeon. We also had a person quit and we had to replace them during this dungeon because he said (sorry guys..this dugeon system is horrible..I am going to uninstall).

My character was setup for PVE and grouping. I had healing spring with some points into healing, search and rescue to help with rezing and the healing spirit. There was no way to heal thru that damage. We also had a guardian and that helped some but just prolonged how long it took us to wipe.

I miss my healers, tanks, and true CC. I lost motivation to level now because I do enjoy PVE more then PVP and knowing that is all I have to look forward to in dungeons is quite dishearting. I love every other aspect of this game, crafting, quest, pvp, graphics, but this is to core of a system for me to overlook. There is a difference between core mehanics and difficulty. The core mechanics on dungeons is just broke. Even if they made it super easy and a zerg fest, there would still be no "skill" to the system. It is either boring no pay attention killing, or just a wipe and res as fast as you can event. I miss strategy.

Healing doesn't work at all in the dungeons, it is actually easier to simply put those points in your own survivability than to even bother with healing. As a ranger, run a long bow to draw 1 mob at a time. Then short bow it then go in. Your guardian should have multiple shields (there are atleast 4) he has to keep them back. He is not there to heal at all, guardians are designed to redirect damage and cc. It takes a lot of practice,vans I agree that they should tone it down a little, but it's possible.

Aerowyn · September 2012

gotta learn combo fields.. if you get a group together that knows how to utliize combo fields well dungeons can be a blast

VirusDancer · September 2012

I'm not a fan of GW2 (not a hater, just not a fan of many of the mechanics in the game - everybody has their own preferences, etc) - but I have to say, that the description offered here - even though it was a complaint - well; it sounded pretty damn awesome to me. I do hate the trinity - not a case of not being a fan, no, I HATE the trinity... and I have to say that description sounds awesome. I wish other games would do that as well.

Khebeln · September 2012

I have 600+ Hours played on one character, and 3/4 of that time i spent in dungeons grinding several sets of armors.

One thing to say, it is the WORST system ever for dungeons. Only things saving it is that its dynamic and action oriented, but then again Tera did far better in that department.

In the end best setup is for everyone to run Toughnes/Vitality/Power Build as Semi tank only or you cant do anything but the easiest most grinded main paths. And even then it can get extremly or near imposible for certian classes like elementalist do do some paths w/o dieing (cod path where you have to split, 1 person at 1 torch far away from each other with tons of mobs respawning near torch every 15-25s and all of them semi elite) And thats just the entrance to that path.

I agree some encounters where fun, but only with everyone in best posible pve gear/triat setup (and the lack of switching builds is NOT helping, you can either only do PVE or PVE you cant do both)

There is only hope they will do something with that mess as after the recent dungeon changes A LOT of ppl stoped doing dungeons or logging in gw2 (pve only) as dungeons where the only reason to grind gear.

Some have hope that things will improve, i can only say im waiting for the official statement about the plans for the next 6 months that is usualy realeased after first month.

Fermi · September 2012

Sorry to hear you had such a poor experience. I think it might take some time for people to get used to this system/style of combat as it less rigid in design to the traditional trinity, however imho it does allow for a much more dynamic feel. I've only done AC and with two very different groups. The first pug went very similar to your experience with people just rushing in, and little coordination amongst group members. The second pug was a blast. Everyone in the group understood that each class can perform multiple roles, and people worked for the group, and we ended up finishing the dungeon without a wipe.

My only suggestion would be trying to prevent damage by either blocking, blinding or kiting. The game isn't set up to allow you to heal through all of the potential damage you can recieve, and while there may not be much for long term cc, those short dazes and stuns work great for interrupts.

Khebeln · September 2012

Originally posted by VirusDancer
I'm not a fan of GW2 (not a hater, just not a fan of many of the mechanics in the game - everybody has their own preferences, etc) - but I have to say, that the description offered here - even though it was a complaint - well; it sounded pretty damn awesome to me. I do hate the trinity - not a case of not being a fan, no, I HATE the trinity... and I have to say that description sounds awesome. I wish other games would do that as well.

No you dont. I did love the idea as well. In theory years before release. Now i hate it and i never want to see something like that implemented in PVE game.

You still need tanky class or someone with heals or cc. The only reason is the game is designed to be chaos and there is no control over who is who as there are no classes really, and no way to switch builds.

And combo fields do help, but not much in PVE. They are blast in PVP and can make huge diference.

In dungeons monsters can 2-3 shot you and a small buff from combo fields is not helping much. And i speak from perspective of a person that plays Elementalist and i run combo fields primarly (as thats kinda the elementalist speciality)

The_Korrigan · September 2012

Originally posted by Khebeln
I have 600+ Hours played on one character

Wow, thats 20 hours a day (game has been out for 30 days I think - August 25 (early access) to today included)... that leaves 4 hours to sleep, washing, eating, etc...

Yeah, sure

And you played 600+ hours in 30 days and didn't notice you can switch builds for a 3s50c fee at any trainer?

Aerowyn · September 2012

Originally posted by Fermi
Sorry to hear you had such a poor experience. I think it might take some time for people to get used to this system/style of combat as it less rigid in design to the traditional trinity, however imho it does allow for a much more dynamic feel. I've only done AC and with two very different groups. The first pug went very similar to your experience with people just rushing in, and little coordination amongst group members. The second pug was a blast. Everyone in the group understood that each class can perform multiple roles, and people worked for the group, and we ended up finishing the dungeon without a wipe.

My only suggestion would be trying to prevent damage by either blocking, blinding or kiting. The game isn't set up to allow you to heal through all of the potential damage you can recieve, and while there may not be much for long term cc, those short dazes and stuns work great for interrupts.

have had same experience.. unlike trinity based dungeons where it's pretty much the same no matter what group you are in as far as mechanics of how your group fights in GW it can vary greatly. I have found depending on builds/player skill and class the experience can be vastly differn't. Ill say again though dungeons were designed with combo fields in mind and if the gorup doesn't know how to use them efficiently the dungeons will be much more chaotic and frustrating for many people.

Khebeln · September 2012

Originally posted by Fermi
Sorry to hear you had such a poor experience. I think it might take some time for people to get used to this system/style of combat as it less rigid in design to the traditional trinity, however imho it does allow for a much more dynamic feel. I've only done AC and with two very different groups. The first pug went very similar to your experience with people just rushing in, and little coordination amongst group members. The second pug was a blast. Everyone in the group understood that each class can perform multiple roles, and people worked for the group, and we ended up finishing the dungeon without a wipe.

My only suggestion would be trying to prevent damage by either blocking, blinding or kiting. The game isn't set up to allow you to heal through all of the potential damage you can recieve, and while there may not be much for long term cc, those short dazes and stuns work great for interrupts.

Its a mater of taste, it was fun for a while for me as well, not all dungeons tho. I asume you didint do all sotry dungeons so you will have some pain and sufering along the road, like that one 30-45min long boss fight where everyone dies from 2-3 hits in one of the story dungeons ^^

I like to have things organized, and i preffered Tera dynamic dungeons far more than the GW2 Chaos. I do admit that the combofields work pretty nice for some teamplay elements. Even if not as useful in pve as they are in pvp.

Velocinox · September 2012

Worse than what?

If you meant that is is worse than all others you have tried, the word is worst.

Khebeln · September 2012

Originally posted by The_Korrigan
Originally posted by Khebeln
I have 600+ Hours played on one character

Wow, thats 20 hours a day (game has been out for 30 days I think)... that leaves 4 hours to sleep, washing, eating, etc...

Yeah, sure

And you played 600+ hours in 30 days and didn't notice you can switch builds for a 3s50c fee at any trainer?

I dont turn off my PC much And G15 can keep you in game pernamently. Lets me read all the guild chat and msgs in the morning

Zeus.CM · September 2012

I've noticed an increasing number of dissapointed people with dungeons, and unfortunatelly I must join them as well. Unlike other parts of the game, dungeons seem like a weakest part, which is a shame. I really hope they take time and redesign them. At least they announced some changes for tommorow, like better rewards (more tokens) and some balancing I think. But I think that's not enough. I enjoy every part of the game, but when I go to dungeon they feel like they are made by another company (like someone said that before on this forum).

But let's not just bash the dungeons let's think of suggestions that will help Arenanet improve them!

VirusDancer · September 2012

Originally posted by Khebeln
Originally posted by VirusDancer
I'm not a fan of GW2 (not a hater, just not a fan of many of the mechanics in the game - everybody has their own preferences, etc) - but I have to say, that the description offered here - even though it was a complaint - well; it sounded pretty damn awesome to me. I do hate the trinity - not a case of not being a fan, no, I HATE the trinity... and I have to say that description sounds awesome. I wish other games would do that as well.

No you dont. I did love the idea as well. In theory years before release. Now i hate it and i never want to see something like that implemented in PVE game.

You still need tanky class or someone with heals or cc. The only reason is the game is designed to be chaos and there is no control over who is who as there are no classes really, and no way to switch builds.

And combo fields do help, but not much in PVE. They are blast in PVP and can make huge diference.

In dungeons monsters can 2-3 shot you and a small buff from combo fields is not helping much. And i speak from perspective of a person that plays Elementalist and i run combo fields primarly (as thats kinda the elementalist speciality)

No, I do wish other games had something like that. I despise the trinity. If the mobs can 2-3 shot you, that's a different design flaw. It has nothing to do with a lack of the trinity.

Khebeln · September 2012

Originally posted by Zeus.CM
I've noticed an increasing number of dissapointed people with dungeons, and unfortunatelly I must join them as well. Unlike other parts of game dungeons seem like a weakest part of the game, which is a shame. I really hope they take time and redesign them. At least they announced some changes for tommorow, like better rewards (more tokens) and some balancing I think. But I think that's not enough. I enjoy every part of the game, but when I go to dungeon they feel like they are made by another company (like someone said that before on this forum).

But let's not just bash the dungeons let's think of suggestions that will help Arenanet improve them!

I think first of all they should get rid of the paths idea, some dungeons are to short, remove uneccesary trash. Like in CoF rind 3/4 of the dungeon is dealing with trash that is harder than the bosses that you kill in few minutes after killing trash one after another like they are nothing.

No decent rewards, especialy now after the nerf where you get 3silver after few runs. You have to run full Magic find set armor just to get anything that is not blue (worthless crap)

Problem is that if they want to make something hard and frustrating at least give some cookie for the effort.

For now i just stoped runing dungeons and cba do that on alts right now as pve is broken. Just enjoying the spvp for now wich is really good apart from the fact that you cant use your armor skins from pvp, so you look like lv 1 newb

The_Korrigan · September 2012

Originally posted by Khebeln
Originally posted by The_Korrigan
Originally posted by Khebeln
I have 600+ Hours played on one character

Wow, thats 20 hours a day (game has been out for 30 days I think)... that leaves 4 hours to sleep, washing, eating, etc...

Yeah, sure

And you played 600+ hours in 30 days and didn't notice you can switch builds for a 3s50c fee at any trainer?

I dont turn off my PC much And G15 can keep you in game pernamently. Lets me read all the guild chat and msgs in the morning

So basically your numbers are meaningless - no matter what you did with your macro keyboard, I don't want to know if it's just sitting in town or cheating to farm kill stuff, you didn' t play and farm dungeons for 600 hours. You're broad "look at me, I played 600 hours, I know all about the game" claim is... wind.

The definition of playing is not being online. It's being at the keyboard controling your character.

Thanks for clearing that up though.

Khebeln · September 2012

Originally posted by VirusDancer
Originally posted by Khebeln
Originally posted by VirusDancer
I'm not a fan of GW2 (not a hater, just not a fan of many of the mechanics in the game - everybody has their own preferences, etc) - but I have to say, that the description offered here - even though it was a complaint - well; it sounded pretty damn awesome to me. I do hate the trinity - not a case of not being a fan, no, I HATE the trinity... and I have to say that description sounds awesome. I wish other games would do that as well.

No you dont. I did love the idea as well. In theory years before release. Now i hate it and i never want to see something like that implemented in PVE game.

You still need tanky class or someone with heals or cc. The only reason is the game is designed to be chaos and there is no control over who is who as there are no classes really, and no way to switch builds.

And combo fields do help, but not much in PVE. They are blast in PVP and can make huge diference.

In dungeons monsters can 2-3 shot you and a small buff from combo fields is not helping much. And i speak from perspective of a person that plays Elementalist and i run combo fields primarly (as thats kinda the elementalist speciality)

No, I do wish other games had something like that. I despise the trinity. If the mobs can 2-3 shot you, that's a different design flaw. It has nothing to do with a lack of the trinity.

If they do it right one day they i will sing Halleluja, but till then i stand at my statement till they fix things.

eggy08 · September 2012

Originally posted by Khebeln
Originally posted by VirusDancer
I'm not a fan of GW2 (not a hater, just not a fan of many of the mechanics in the game - everybody has their own preferences, etc) - but I have to say, that the description offered here - even though it was a complaint - well; it sounded pretty damn awesome to me. I do hate the trinity - not a case of not being a fan, no, I HATE the trinity... and I have to say that description sounds awesome. I wish other games would do that as well.

No you dont. I did love the idea as well. In theory years before release. Now i hate it and i never want to see something like that implemented in PVE game.

You still need tanky class or someone with heals or cc. The only reason is the game is designed to be chaos and there is no control over who is who as there are no classes really, and no way to switch builds.

And combo fields do help, but not much in PVE. They are blast in PVP and can make huge diference.

In dungeons monsters can 2-3 shot you and a small buff from combo fields is not helping much. And i speak from perspective of a person that plays Elementalist and i run combo fields primarly (as thats kinda the elementalist speciality)

You don't need tanks and healers. Their sole purpose is to keep you going after you mess up. I don't get why people feel that not having them makes the game awful. Now instead of assigned groups, you can do whatever you want and roll with whoever you want. No one person being forced into a role they don't want to play. No group of friends who can't function in an instance because all them roled dps classes and noone is tank or heals. Don't understand how anyone has that rough of a time in these instances. Sure they are tough and you die a few times, but would you rather steam roll through them and go "meh". You might not call dying a lot fun, but I call it a challenge and a learning experience. If you can't learn from it, then you'll continue to go down over and over again.

I don't get why people assume that the game requires you to go a specific spec to do dungeons. Thats not true at all. It's not the devs fault for you falling over dead and needing to go tankier, it's you. It's your play style that forces you to take damage and need to build tankier. If you can't preform properly and adapt your playing style to meet your spec, then clearly that isn't the spec for you and your going to have to reevaluate your thinking process. Why did you go pure glass cannon, yet get yourself in range for mobs to hit you or sit in aoe, who knows. All I do know is that you can roll whatever build you want, you just need the adaptation to do so.

Quizzical · September 2012

You've argued that it's hard and that you're not good at it, but not that that it's bad. Unless easier is automatically better.

Khebeln · September 2012

Originally posted by The_Korrigan
Originally posted by Khebeln
Originally posted by The_Korrigan
Originally posted by Khebeln
I have 600+ Hours played on one character

Wow, thats 20 hours a day (game has been out for 30 days I think)... that leaves 4 hours to sleep, washing, eating, etc...

Yeah, sure

And you played 600+ hours in 30 days and didn't notice you can switch builds for a 3s50c fee at any trainer?

I dont turn off my PC much And G15 can keep you in game pernamently. Lets me read all the guild chat and msgs in the morning

So basically your numbers are meaningless - no matter what you did with your macro keyboard, I don't want to know if it's just sitting in town or cheating to farm kill stuff, you didn' t play and farm dungeons for 600 hours. You're broad "look at me, I played 600 hours, I know all about the game" claim is... wind.

The definition of playing is not being online. It's being at the keyboard controling your character.

Thanks for clearing that up though.

Ok, if you want to play that game. I got every lv 80 pve set, CoF set twice for the skins, and a lot of weapons models. Do the math yourself. I took month off from work for Gw2 release. My statement is still valid. Thats hundreths of dungeons runs.

The_Korrigan · September 2012

Originally posted by Khebeln

Ok, if you want to play that game. I got every lv 80 pve set, CoF set twice for the skins, and a lot of weapons models. Do the math yourself. I took month off from work for Gw2 release. My statement is still valid. Thats hundreths of dungeons runs.

And yet you didn't notice you can respec all your traits for the small sum of 3s50c at any trainer of your class, as much as you want to, without any limitation or price increase.

Originally posted by Khebeln
I agree some encounters where fun, but only with everyone in best posible pve gear/triat setup (and the lack of switching builds is NOT helping, you can either only do PVE or PVE you cant do both)

But whatever... too tired to keep arguing on such stuff - have fun

bookworm438 · September 2012

...So this thread basically boils down to this statement: "Dungeons suck because they are difficult."

Have you ever stopped to consider that maybe your build/groups build just isn't cutting it for the dungeon? That maybe you and your other group members aren't playing properly for the build you have chosen? So what if CC only lasts 3 seconds. That 3 seconds may be enough time to quickly heal a downed player. CC isn't suppose to be the end all be all of this game.

Adapt your playstyle to the game, stop demanding the game to adapt to your play style. If you want to go back to trinity system, then by all means do it. GW2 will not head in that direction, and the devs are adament in their decisions to not nerf dungeons (only buff them).

gaeanprayer · September 2012

Actually I agree with him, but not for the lack of trinity thing. I've been talking about how hard the dungeons are since the betas and all I ever got in response was "play better" or "you just need a coordinated team". Despite that, they're half right; if people are all playing at the top of their game, you'll make it through. But there's a LOT of frustration along the way in terms of learning experience and even then, it really only takes one fuck up to ruin the party for the rest of the group. The dungeons run along the same elitist vein as structured PvP, which is why I ignore them.

Ran story modes of all of them (which are all relatively easy) then crafted myself full exotic gear (including secondary weapon and accessories at this point). Now I have no need of the dungeons, and that works fine for me. This has been and - if the recent dev letter is any indication - always will be the weakest point of Guild Wars 2 for me, and the only content I go out of my way to avoid.

Loke666 · September 2012

A few suggestions:

1. Gear. Always have updated gear, preferably gold (or if possible at your level orange). People complain and say that you shouldnt be forced to gear up for dungeons before max level but for us that play a while it is not so strange, and GW2 have a different view on "endgame" than Wow.

2. Speccs. Get the right skills, particularly condition removals help a lot. Also put points in at least one defensive tree. Put in some skills your teammates can combo with.

3. Teamwork. None trinity combat needs a lot of this or you will die all the time. Work together, get in combos and shift kiteing between several members. And while ANET say you can complete a dungeon with 5 of the same class a bit of variety helps and make things easier.

Vent, Xfire or Skype (whatever you prefer) for teamspeak also makes things a lot easier.

There is strategy, but it is a bit more subtile than in tank and spank. Training will help.

aRtFuLThinG · September 2012

Originally posted by Aerowyn
gotta learn combo fields.. if you get a group together that knows how to utliize combo fields well dungeons can be a blast

Yeap combo fields is a massive mechanic in this game.

Combo fields can heal or protect the crap out of the players. Blindness and confusion is also a massive mechanic that got overlooked by many players because blindness actually allows for avoidance tanking as the mobs can not hit you when blinded. The condition removal effects from healing combo fields also saves lives. Poison and fire fields can effectively double your damage because of the DoTs. Invis from smoke fields - enough said.

These are big mechanic because in this game, even most bosses can not avoid them.

I can tell a lot of players don't even use them by playing side by side with them.

They are a big deal. Probably a bigger deal than what you traits and what skills you have ready (I don't feel traits changes a fight much and are a lot more straightforward in choices, comparison).

Xzen · September 2012

Originally posted by aRtFuLThinG
Originally posted by Aerowyn
gotta learn combo fields.. if you get a group together that knows how to utliize combo fields well dungeons can be a blast

Yeap combo fields is a massive mechanic in this game.

Combo fields can heal or protect the crap out of the players. Blindness and confusion is also a massive mechanic that got overlooked by many players because blindness actually allows for avoidance tanking as the mobs can not hit you when blinded. The condition removal effects from healing combo fields also saves lives. Poison and fire fields can effectively double your damage because of the DoTs. Invis from smoke fields - enough said.

These are big mechanic because in this game, even most bosses can not avoid them.

I can tell a lot of players don't even use them by playing side by side with them.

They are a big deal. Probably a bigger deal than what you traits and what skills you have ready (I don't feel traits changes a fight much and are a lot more straightforward in choices, comparison).

As a thief I always have my shortbow and spam blind and area weakness. Does great at improving survivablity of the folks that go in for melee. Some times if we go into an encounter that has a lot of adds I'll switch my elite to thieves guild and one of my normal utility skills to ambush trap. Gives the adds 3 more targets to chew on and gives the party enough time to deal with them.

P.S. Thief minion master build? Thats weird Anet. Just weird.

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