That was a boring piece of article, and I'm inclined to agree with the Editor's Note, I wouldn't class it as a humor column either.
The article itself doesn't even seem to fit with it's title of "The Age of Boredom". Something along the lines of "I hyped myself too much for every MMORPGs that came out and ended up being disappointed, and now there's nothing on the horizon to be hyped about". Only 2 paragraphs of the whole article could be related to it's title, while the rest falls down to "how I fell for the hype train".
There's also this part that bothered me "I became a victim of the system", no, you became a victim of yourself. A few classes on Critical Thinking would come in handy.
And I won't point you to "upcoming games to get excited for". Why? Because history will repeat itself.
Originally posted by Kyleran Welcome to the dark ages of mmorpgs, so glad you decided to stop by.
Nice
This little short and sweet number will be my new sig (assuming there are no objections).
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
Originally posted by Aeolron Thing is sandbox is not the way to go, it just won't sell. For people like us vets yeah it'll sell well but the issue is the game will face similar issues then what most wow clones faced , they need to make a game that's like the old EQ, that game was a world period, he'll you could swim clear to other areas or continents , and then get eaten by a shark and loose your corpse lol , what needs to happen is they need to bring back the hardcore elements to mmorpg, because way back when a mmorpg was a advanced rpg that required people to play the game with, soloing did not exists , or was very hard too. Today's games are too into your story ect and focus mostly on solo content we cant have that anymore if we want this genre to survive and thrive, we need a harsh death system and not just quests. It worlds that require grouping.
I couldn't agree more, bring back grouping and some form of meaningful challenge
I agree. Partly. Bring back the freedom of EQ but allow options. Part of the issue with bringing back 'old' EQ is that not everyone likes or wants 'old' EQ. With options they could have servers (like the progression servers) where people could log on with old rule sets. (corpse runs, grouping, etc). Then have other servers that allow mercenaries, PoK, etc.
What I (still) love about EQ is how I could do whatever I wanted (quests, mob kills, tradeskills, etc) when I wanted without restriction. This allowed me to play how I wanted.
Games today spend too much time directing you either to questing with weak side quest elements or complete freedom but no story or strong context to keep you playing.
I still believe if they did a 'remake' of EQ (update graphics or new graphics engine, but keep the core game mechanics) they would have a winner on their hands.
The problem is that the market of mmorpg's is changing and the developers are being dumb sadly. They are all triyng to be like wow but better, why dont they instead of copying wow bring in new players with an amazing idea and more player freedom. Let the players create things sand box games do great like SWG. But everyone copies wow it is like american developers are like how can we copy wow but reskin it to look cooler than it. Dont believe me here are examples
Rift, Swtor, Swg combat upgrade, Eq 2 and many more but the point is you play these games and you think they are boring because when you break it down the mechanics are ALL the same!!!!
fact is there are far to many RPG's out there. I stopped playing RPG's seriously years ago. Now I get all my innovation from games like the world battle series (tanks,warplanes,warships) and games like eve. Eve is doing innovation with cross-game cross-platform and the world series is planning on doing a huge cross-game battlefield.
Both of those are something to look forward to, and theres lots more, specially when it comes to indie games (0x10c, FTL:Faster than light, starhip corporation and many others). You just have to look outside the relam of the traditional MMO to find great content.
Strat, I should have said modern and I left it out. WoW is famous because it was the first MMO that you could play on almost any box, and not have it affect gameplay, which was a departure from previous MMO's. The other thing that made it a hit was their target audience and a brand name that had a wide appeal, which is a total change from previous MMO's. You could say UO should have had the same pull from the the game Ultima being so popular, but the target was a very narrow cross section of gamers. Would love to find the last MMOGChart...
WoD is the next game in the pipes that has me salivating, Archeage has me somewhat interested though I'm wary of anything eastern as the aesthetics usually irritate me beyond belief....and right now that's about it.
I think the most exciting games are yet to come for those of us who can't wait until there is more than just the standard themepark MMO garbage the industry has been spewing out for the last eight years. Games like The Repopulation, Arch Age, the new Day Z mmo in the works and others that are willing to take a chance on emergent gameplay rather than scripted, linear amusement park MMO's have me very much looking forward to the future.
It's time for player and community driven MMO gaming to come back. Themeparks have few places left to go. Look at TSW and GW2. Those two games have pushed thempark to it's ultimate expression (more or less), and now we need to make old things new again by starting to bring sandbox gaming, horizontal progression, emergent gameplay, community, non-combat features, deep crafting and other much more interesting adventures. Give me a deep game I can spend a couple years playing again. I don't want another 2-3 month passing fancy. Bring back virtual worlds.
well said ! EQ2's world is very involving in every way, anywhere you went there was "stuff" happenning and every path has the potential for adventure.
I am so suprised that no one has mentioned Darkfall online. 4 years going indie sandbox and releasing Darkfall online : Unholy Wars November 20.
It has more depth and entertainment than any other MMO i have played, and i started with Ultima Online 14 years ago. A lot of people experienced a lot of pain with the intial release of the game and wrote it off, but after the 1 year mark they had things worked out.
Being in a sandbox game is one of those things that makes me quote "if you're bored you're boring" .
The issue with the entire industry right now is we have a bunch of WoW clones running around and no one wants to play them since they can just go play wow with all of their friends. Then the issue of the unique sand box games no one plays because they are so small and none of them have done the proper way of building it. For instance look at SwG that game was amazing and was an entire sand box game. That game was so well built before they went all wow clone on us. Also the stupid companies dont advertis, if there are 40million people playing mmo's and you dont advertise then you will always have to compete with the other companies.
Sand box mmo's do work but the issue is no one get's their name out and there are or were hardly any good ones out. And look at it this way, the average person does not like to wait for more content to be added by the devs and they dont want the same thing over and over again. Well if the players are creating it constantly then there is no delay for the content to be released and that way there is a constant flow of content being added to the game. And the content will be more unique.
Another thing when it came to CoH and there little quest making system the players would get rewarded with the tickets if people acutally played and liked the mission, which is another thing that people should like. And the game company also gets it better because the more content there is in the game then they can work longer on their patches and add more stuff to the game.
Another thing that mmo's are lacking which is a good idea i think is a dual economy system liek in Diablo 3. these work because the hard working players can make money in virtual or study the trends and make money for their own spending.
Triple AAA studio MAKE the market, they are SOOO sure they are right and refuse to see ANYTHING else than what THEY think, it drives the *REAL* market toward their view. Sandbox IS the way to go else UO would be dead right now. Sadly SWG died may it rest in peace... Why did it die? All these latest patch NGE-CU call it like you want moved the game toward linear/level progression, more WOW like if you will. What happent? it DIED. That was my 2 cents.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Wildstar looks like it could be entertaining. Not enough out about it I guess. I keep going back to old games. They let you have a 14 day trial or free to a certain level, etc. I jumped back into DAOC, and had fun. But I agree. I don't see anything holding my attention more than 14 days.
I'd like to see your evidence for why sandbox games won't sell. You can't say "look at the market", because the fact remains that there hasn't even been an attempt at a AAA sandbox game since Star Wars Galaxies. WoW's success took over the whole genre. They didn't stop making virtual world games because no one wanted them. They stopped making them because they wanted to copy WoW's success. Most people don't even understand that one of the main reason WoW was a success at all was that you could run it on just about any computer. Without that accessibility, it wouldnt have been squat. The few sandbox games that have come out were indy games that didn't even make it on the radar for people who don't hang out on sites like this one.
I'm a perfect example of why there is a market for sandbox games. I came to MMO's from the shooter genre for years as a hardcore clan match player in games like Quake 1, 2, 3, Unreal Tournament, Tribes, Counterstrike, etc. I ran into Star Wars Galaxies at the store one day, and decided to check it out.
The moment I logged my new character into the game, I was met by another higher level character who noticed I was a noob, and offered to take me hunting to get some XP and loot. I was immediately immersed in what felt to me like a living breathing world where the choice was mine as to what I wanted to do. I didn't choose to the the "hero" type player right away either. I became a Bio Engineer, and did science. I loved it.
What we have now is a chicken end egg problem. Most of the people who came to the genre came here with WoW. That's just a fact. They never had the joy of playing, what was back then, an amazing community-driven sandbox or truly hardcore MMO where you had to figure things out on your own, or find others to help guide you.
As for what will sell, that is not your call, and I also believe that expecting every MMO that comes along to compete with WoW's numbers is ludicrous. Look how Day Z took off like crazy. Was it a niche? Yup, and the whole gaming industry was shocked to see it take off like it did. So much so that a full Day Z game is being made now. Emergent gameplay is simply more engaging and interesting. Games like WoW, Rift, SWTOR, GW2, etc feel like Farmville by comparison.
We have a much larger and diverse market now, and if a game like EVE can thrive after all these years, there is a case for other "niche" games. In fact I believe niche games will become the norm in this industry. MMO develpers are going to learn to get and keep smaller audiences for longer periods of time and differentiate their games from others. A growing number of people are tired of also-ran MMO games that are only a little different than WoW.
I think this is the best post I have read for a long time on MMORPG. Thank you for your time to put this all together.
I had a pretty similar experience. WAR was not my first mmorpg but it was the one I was most excited about. It turned into a huge let down. I should have learned my lesson and avoided SWTOR but my friends were going crazy about it so I gave in. Another disappointment despite huge, ridiculous hype.
Originally posted by shastaman401 EQ is the prime example of a great MMO. There were no dotted lines pointing you to the next quest part. There were areas that you could not go without completing key quests. There were hell levels where it would take 3 times longer to progress. Epic corpse runs with decay. Real loot for raids. There was an actual feeling of accomplishment for leveling or having a good successful group. These new themeparks are too easy... I think it was 2 days for the first GW2 lvl 80. In EQ I played hardcore for 2-3 years and casually for another 2-3 years and still was not Max level. This was mostly because they kept raising the cap, but it was always fun getting there. New content and expansions, one of the most complex faction systems, actual dungeon crawls where mobs respawn behind you this is what makes a great game. Leaving the player with a story to tell, not just how fast they got to Max level.
Can I borrow those rose-colored glasses of nostalgia +1?
Today's gamers wouldn't put up with some of these systems for two seconds. Corpse runs were NOT fun. Running from a-holes training you was NOT fun. Farming rats outside Qeynos for hours and running to the guards for safety was NOT fun. We put up with it because the MMO genre was new and different and EQ was pretty much the only game in town.( Yeah , I know, UO and AC but they were equally hardcore and unforgiving).
Corpse runs were never supposed to be "fun". They were a penalty for getting yourself killed, along with decay. They taught you to play more strategically, or to seek help from others before rushing in.
There's a reason sports include pentalties. Every second of a game or activity does not have to be fun for one to enjoy the total experience immensely. I get much more joy and satisfaction from things I work hard to earn than I do things that are handed to me. These newer games give out accomplishments with all the effort of a PEZ dispensor.
A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.
I'd like to see your evidence for why sandbox games won't sell. You can't say "look at the market", because the fact remains that there hasn't even been an attempt at a AAA sandbox game since Star Wars Galaxies. WoW's success took over the whole genre. They didn't stop making virtual world games because no one wanted them. They stopped making them because they wanted to copy WoW's success. Most people don't even understand that one of the main reason WoW was a success at all was that you could run it on just about any computer. Without that accessibility, it wouldnt have been squat. The few sandbox games that have come out were indy games that didn't even make it on the radar for people who don't hang out on sites like this one.
I'm a perfect example of why there is a market for sandbox games. I came to MMO's from the shooter genre for years as a hardcore clan match player in games like Quake 1, 2, 3, Unreal Tournament, Tribes, Counterstrike, etc. I ran into Star Wars Galaxies at the store one day, and decided to check it out.
The moment I logged my new character into the game, I was met by another higher level character who noticed I was a noob, and offered to take me hunting to get some XP and loot. I was immediately immersed in what felt to me like a living breathing world where the choice was mine as to what I wanted to do. I didn't choose to the the "hero" type player right away either. I became a Bio Engineer, and did science. I loved it.
What we have now is a chicken end egg problem. Most of the people who came to the genre came here with WoW. That's just a fact. They never had the joy of playing, what was back then, an amazing community-driven sandbox or truly hardcore MMO where you had to figure things out on your own, or find others to help guide you.
As for what will sell, that is not your call, and I also believe that expecting every MMO that comes along to compete with WoW's numbers is ludicrous. Look how Day Z took off like crazy. Was it a niche? Yup, and the whole gaming industry was shocked to see it take off like it did. So much so that a full Day Z game is being made now. Emergent gameplay is simply more engaging and interesting. Games like WoW, Rift, SWTOR, GW2, etc feel like Farmville by comparison.
We have a much larger and diverse market now, and if a game like EVE can thrive after all these years, there is a case for other "niche" games. In fact I believe niche games will become the norm in this industry. MMO develpers are going to learn to get and keep smaller audiences for longer periods of time and differentiate their games from others. A growing number of people are tired of also-ran MMO games that are only a little different than WoW.
I think this is the best post I have read for a long time on MMORPG. Thank you for your time to put this all together.
Originally posted by shastaman401 EQ is the prime example of a great MMO. There were no dotted lines pointing you to the next quest part. There were areas that you could not go without completing key quests. There were hell levels where it would take 3 times longer to progress. Epic corpse runs with decay. Real loot for raids. There was an actual feeling of accomplishment for leveling or having a good successful group. These new themeparks are too easy... I think it was 2 days for the first GW2 lvl 80. In EQ I played hardcore for 2-3 years and casually for another 2-3 years and still was not Max level. This was mostly because they kept raising the cap, but it was always fun getting there. New content and expansions, one of the most complex faction systems, actual dungeon crawls where mobs respawn behind you this is what makes a great game. Leaving the player with a story to tell, not just how fast they got to Max level.
Can I borrow those rose-colored glasses of nostalgia +1?
Today's gamers wouldn't put up with some of these systems for two seconds. Corpse runs were NOT fun. Running from a-holes training you was NOT fun. Farming rats outside Qeynos for hours and running to the guards for safety was NOT fun. We put up with it because the MMO genre was new and different and EQ was pretty much the only game in town.( Yeah , I know, UO and AC but they were equally hardcore and unforgiving).
I payed EQ1 since release my 1st mmo and went back to it last year just to look at it again and to try the progression servers( EQ1 without expansion and as difficult as it was at launch). I was aware that I felt mmo's had lost something over the years and I wanted to try to pinpoint what it was.
It was certainly a shock to the system after many years of modern mmo's.
whats changed:
Slower pace once you get used to it leads to a different mindset, I hadn't realised I have become some goal driven with my mmo playing, We chaise arround after loot, levels, quests badges and we expect to achieve them at a reasonable rate, yet so often i am left with a hollow empty feeling upon completion. Once you get used to it and play just to kill a few mobs and see what happens. Sometimes something good will happen sometimes it wont but in the end over time somehow its all worthwhile.
Slow leveling and having a situation where most classes couldnt solo anything ment people play together more, everyone needs to be a team player and build relationships within the game. For example somebody with a lvl 30 character had spent alot (weeks of RL time) leveling that character, and to progress further needed the help of others so was less likily to behave like a jerk, ninja loot or train people intentionally. There were a few on every server sure but they went on everyones black list and everyone knew about them and nobody would group with them.
But in truth i think that there is no going back to this age of mmo really, even us vets of EQ1 UO etc would struggle to go back now our eyes have been opened to what is possible.
I would love to see a hardcore PVE sandbox achieve some level of success but in todays market i dont know if that is possible.
Comments
That was a boring piece of article, and I'm inclined to agree with the Editor's Note, I wouldn't class it as a humor column either.
The article itself doesn't even seem to fit with it's title of "The Age of Boredom". Something along the lines of "I hyped myself too much for every MMORPGs that came out and ended up being disappointed, and now there's nothing on the horizon to be hyped about". Only 2 paragraphs of the whole article could be related to it's title, while the rest falls down to "how I fell for the hype train".
There's also this part that bothered me "I became a victim of the system", no, you became a victim of yourself. A few classes on Critical Thinking would come in handy.
And I won't point you to "upcoming games to get excited for". Why? Because history will repeat itself.
Nice
This little short and sweet number will be my new sig (assuming there are no objections).
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
I agree. Partly. Bring back the freedom of EQ but allow options. Part of the issue with bringing back 'old' EQ is that not everyone likes or wants 'old' EQ. With options they could have servers (like the progression servers) where people could log on with old rule sets. (corpse runs, grouping, etc). Then have other servers that allow mercenaries, PoK, etc.
What I (still) love about EQ is how I could do whatever I wanted (quests, mob kills, tradeskills, etc) when I wanted without restriction. This allowed me to play how I wanted.
Games today spend too much time directing you either to questing with weak side quest elements or complete freedom but no story or strong context to keep you playing.
I still believe if they did a 'remake' of EQ (update graphics or new graphics engine, but keep the core game mechanics) they would have a winner on their hands.
The problem is that the market of mmorpg's is changing and the developers are being dumb sadly. They are all triyng to be like wow but better, why dont they instead of copying wow bring in new players with an amazing idea and more player freedom. Let the players create things sand box games do great like SWG. But everyone copies wow it is like american developers are like how can we copy wow but reskin it to look cooler than it. Dont believe me here are examples
Rift, Swtor, Swg combat upgrade, Eq 2 and many more but the point is you play these games and you think they are boring because when you break it down the mechanics are ALL the same!!!!
The Arcade Corner
The Daily Exposition
fact is there are far to many RPG's out there. I stopped playing RPG's seriously years ago. Now I get all my innovation from games like the world battle series (tanks,warplanes,warships) and games like eve. Eve is doing innovation with cross-game cross-platform and the world series is planning on doing a huge cross-game battlefield.
Both of those are something to look forward to, and theres lots more, specially when it comes to indie games (0x10c, FTL:Faster than light, starhip corporation and many others). You just have to look outside the relam of the traditional MMO to find great content.
favoring console games-really?...u have no business writing here, furthermore trashing a great franchise like warhammer- just spellls 'TROLL.' for me.
horrible article.
Note: if you are 12 and you are reading this, you are not a moron. CoD players can’t read.
^ this. brilliant!
I am so suprised that no one has mentioned Darkfall online. 4 years going indie sandbox and releasing Darkfall online : Unholy Wars November 20.
It has more depth and entertainment than any other MMO i have played, and i started with Ultima Online 14 years ago. A lot of people experienced a lot of pain with the intial release of the game and wrote it off, but after the 1 year mark they had things worked out.
Being in a sandbox game is one of those things that makes me quote "if you're bored you're boring" .
The issue with the entire industry right now is we have a bunch of WoW clones running around and no one wants to play them since they can just go play wow with all of their friends. Then the issue of the unique sand box games no one plays because they are so small and none of them have done the proper way of building it. For instance look at SwG that game was amazing and was an entire sand box game. That game was so well built before they went all wow clone on us. Also the stupid companies dont advertis, if there are 40million people playing mmo's and you dont advertise then you will always have to compete with the other companies.
Sand box mmo's do work but the issue is no one get's their name out and there are or were hardly any good ones out. And look at it this way, the average person does not like to wait for more content to be added by the devs and they dont want the same thing over and over again. Well if the players are creating it constantly then there is no delay for the content to be released and that way there is a constant flow of content being added to the game. And the content will be more unique.
Another thing when it came to CoH and there little quest making system the players would get rewarded with the tickets if people acutally played and liked the mission, which is another thing that people should like. And the game company also gets it better because the more content there is in the game then they can work longer on their patches and add more stuff to the game.
Another thing that mmo's are lacking which is a good idea i think is a dual economy system liek in Diablo 3. these work because the hard working players can make money in virtual or study the trends and make money for their own spending.
The Arcade Corner
The Daily Exposition
Nice
This little short and sweet number will be my new sig (assuming there are no objections).
NP, go for it."True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
How true!
Wildstar looks like it could be entertaining. Not enough out about it I guess. I keep going back to old games. They let you have a 14 day trial or free to a certain level, etc. I jumped back into DAOC, and had fun. But I agree. I don't see anything holding my attention more than 14 days.
I think this is the best post I have read for a long time on MMORPG. Thank you for your time to put this all together.
+1 from me
I had a pretty similar experience. WAR was not my first mmorpg but it was the one I was most excited about. It turned into a huge let down. I should have learned my lesson and avoided SWTOR but my friends were going crazy about it so I gave in. Another disappointment despite huge, ridiculous hype.
Corpse runs were never supposed to be "fun". They were a penalty for getting yourself killed, along with decay. They taught you to play more strategically, or to seek help from others before rushing in.
There's a reason sports include pentalties. Every second of a game or activity does not have to be fun for one to enjoy the total experience immensely. I get much more joy and satisfaction from things I work hard to earn than I do things that are handed to me. These newer games give out accomplishments with all the effort of a PEZ dispensor.
A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.
Agreed.
I payed EQ1 since release my 1st mmo and went back to it last year just to look at it again and to try the progression servers( EQ1 without expansion and as difficult as it was at launch). I was aware that I felt mmo's had lost something over the years and I wanted to try to pinpoint what it was.
It was certainly a shock to the system after many years of modern mmo's.
whats changed:
Slower pace once you get used to it leads to a different mindset, I hadn't realised I have become some goal driven with my mmo playing, We chaise arround after loot, levels, quests badges and we expect to achieve them at a reasonable rate, yet so often i am left with a hollow empty feeling upon completion. Once you get used to it and play just to kill a few mobs and see what happens. Sometimes something good will happen sometimes it wont but in the end over time somehow its all worthwhile.
Slow leveling and having a situation where most classes couldnt solo anything ment people play together more, everyone needs to be a team player and build relationships within the game. For example somebody with a lvl 30 character had spent alot (weeks of RL time) leveling that character, and to progress further needed the help of others so was less likily to behave like a jerk, ninja loot or train people intentionally. There were a few on every server sure but they went on everyones black list and everyone knew about them and nobody would group with them.
But in truth i think that there is no going back to this age of mmo really, even us vets of EQ1 UO etc would struggle to go back now our eyes have been opened to what is possible.
I would love to see a hardcore PVE sandbox achieve some level of success but in todays market i dont know if that is possible.