I don't like OWPVP because there is rarely any pvp happening. It's usually just ganking or zerging.
What's the point if it's me vs an entire group of people just one-shotting me?
What's the point if it's a higher level player getting kicks by killing me repeatedly?
For every one decent encounter, you experience dozens of pointless ones. I'd much rather queue up for a consensual pvp battleground. Ironically, I get to have way more 1v1 or 1v2 encounters in a battleground that I ever have in OWPVP. Not to mention group battles.
I used to love open PVP back when I had just graduated from college and had plenty of time to play. I roled open PVP in SWTOR and hated it for three reasons:
1. Faction imbalance - on most servers empire outnumbered republic at least 3-1. Even if a few noble level 50 heroes briefly rallied to defend the lowbies from evil ganking sith, within about 15 minutes the entire zone would be overrun by Imperials. This was also a huge problem for me in Warhammer too.
2. I'm casualcore - I'm play about 15-20 hours/week, enough to stay current in structured PVP but not really enough to take on a total PVP badass mano y mano. I'm also a slower leveler and thus will be subjected to several months of griefng from those who hit max level in the first week.
3. Cheap tactics by gankers - From my experience, OWPVP gankers seem to all follow the same tactics. They play the stealth class, always hit lowbies or wait until somebody is half-dead from fighting mobs before attacking. Then they melt away at the sign of any real challenge.
While SWTOR had open PvP you are missing the main reason it sucked. There was no objective. No gain. No reward. No penalties. It was just ass-hats running around killing for only the single reason of griefing. I personally didn't have any issues in that game with griefers (I usually killed them in their attempts), but, it was none the less boring.
This generation of MMO players hasn't had the opportunity to play a proper open world pvp game. Its all just tacked on. There was a time where you didn't need a second set of gear for PvP either. Its all stupid now! But, thats just my opinion.
@madazz ... your reasons why SWTOR PvP sucked .... no objective, no gain, no reward... Yes these are valid reasons. So too are BattleFelons reasons for not liking SWTOR PvP. I have seen similar situations in other MMOs that the two of you discuss and it always sucked, for both your reasons. That's part of the problem with SWTOR PvP, there are so many problem areas it's hard for any Dev to know what to fix first to be honest.
SWTOR reeks like a Thanksgiving Turkey that got pulled out of the Oven two hours early and allowed to sit out on the counter. Undercooked, and not taken care of properly.
All the problems with PvP mentioned over the last few posts are genuine but they can be solved. You can have a good objective for PvP. You can level up players when they go into a PvP zone. You can make it a group effort, which makes it harder for gankers to find a lone victim.
We saw leveling up in PvP missions in SWTOR, they could have done that for those who entered the open PvP zone too. Realm objectives in DAOC show how you set up a good objective. All thse things have been done, but concentrating on graphics or in SWTOR's case cutscenes and voice overs, is the prime thrust of todays MMO's.
All the problems with PvP mentioned over the last few posts are genuine but they can be solved. You can have a good objective for PvP. You can level up players when they go into a PvP zone. You can make it a group effort, which makes it harder for gankers to find a lone victim.
We saw leveling up in PvP missions in SWTOR, they could have done that for those who entered the open PvP zone too. Realm objectives in DAOC show how you set up a good objective. All thse things have been done, but concentrating on graphics or in SWTOR's case cutscenes and voice overs, is the prime thrust of todays MMO's.
Graphics before gameplay rules the roost.
Best way to solve PVP problems ... put PVP in an instanced arena/battleground. Only those who want it will engage in it. Problem solved.
Hey guys - (just to start so no flaming occurs) i will be playing gw2 so I am not a hater. I just have a more general question.
Why is it that people do not like true open world pvp, where you can gank anyone while they are questing etc. I enjoyed it in wow while it existed (vanilla-slightly BC), Rift was good, and currently gaming in Tera.
Is it the annoyance of being ganked and not being able to defend yourself. Does it provide to much of a challenge. Or is our generation just lazy and prefer to sit in a town and just que for stuff.
I personally like the OWPVP and being able to mess with someones day while there gathering, questing whatever there doing .
what are peoples thoughts on this?
Umm...maybe because I don't want to be "ganked" while I am questing? I play a game for my enjoyment. Not to provide you with a means to make yourself feel better about whatever it is you're lacking in the real world. That's what moms are for. If you don't have one, get a dog or something. Just leave me the f**k alone.
SWG had great PVP. Open world Rebel VS Imperial, space where Neutrals could pick which faction to fight along side with, and a great PVP Bounty Hunter system. The first year or so was great, once buffs became the deciding factor it lost a lot of it's luster.
EQ had really good open world PVP on each of it's three servers. Most people played on the PVE servers but if you were on one of the Zek servers, the game had an entirely new dimension.
The point is you can have open world PVP and have a great system, but you cannot have it in a quest-hub, themepark type of game. The best you can do is put it where the PVEers are not, like LOTRO's Ettenmoors which is suprisingly good.
People don't like OW pvp because it's never fair, and there is always a loser. In most cases, that loser stays the loser. Then the losers go somewhere else.
OWPVP had it's time. It's time has passed. People don't watch football because one team has more players. They watch it because it's competitive. OWPVP will continue to exist. But only for small niche groups and the developers who cater to them.
People don't like OW pvp because it's never fair, and there is always a loser. In most cases, that loser stays the loser. Then the losers go somewhere else.
OWPVP had it's time. It's time has passed. People don't watch football because one team has more players. They watch it because it's competitive. OWPVP will continue to exist. But only for small niche groups and the developers who cater to them.
The only game i have played that had really great open pvp was Asherons Call, and after trying many many other MMOs over the years i realize a few things that made AC pvp work above all the rest.
You could fight and beat multiple enemys with skill. the game had NO CC and NO Stealth so when you were off doing your thing and 3 guys rolled up, you wernt just dead from CC lock down, or some guy who runs around stealth all over the place waiting for you to be half dead fighting a mob then pops out and 2 shots you.
When you take away the crutch of CC and stealth in pvp and add the fact that you have to actually hit the enemy with magic and missle attacks you open up a whole new world for pvp. plus the fact that its skill based instead of classes AND its a real open world instead of instances all over the place also help make the experience great for open pvp.
just my opinion i know alot of people dont agree because they think CC adds strategy or somthing, but i think anytime a couple people can just lock down sombody and kill them without that person not even being able to control his character isnt pvp at all. and thats why there are so many people who complain about being ganked in open pvp because they honestly dont even stand a chance when out numbered.
As many others may have said, in a game like GW2 where you're ment to go rez people who are dead and etc, open world pvp wouldn't fit. And I agree it maybe hilarious for the person doing it but it isn't for the person on the recieving end. In fact you could go as far as calling it cyber bullying. Yea I know I sound like a sap but having someone take out their real life frustration on you in a cyber world doesn't really cry out "fun game" to me. If anything, WoW's pvp servers are a good example of how it can be done properly or in a game called runescape where there's this thing called the wilderness with rare mobs where open pvp is supported. Simply having all open pvp is just stupid. Restricting it to certain areas is ok cause you know there's a risk and even then that's a problem. So tell me if you were doing a quest and someone ganked you over and over and over again, would that not frustrate you? So yah I'm against it unless it's done okishly like cross faction ganking and such
They probably don't like it because ganking in WoW is just bullying with no accountability. Any serious PvP game not only has death penalties but also accountability, like Shadowbane, Lineage 2, etc. WoW PvP is just annoying.
Originally posted by prpshrt As many others may have said, in a game like GW2 where you're ment to go rez people who are dead and etc, open world pvp wouldn't fit. And I agree it maybe hilarious for the person doing it but it isn't for the person on the recieving end. In fact you could go as far as calling it cyber bullying. Yea I know I sound like a sap but having someone take out their real life frustration on you in a cyber world doesn't really cry out "fun game" to me. If anything, WoW's pvp servers are a good example of how it can be done properly or in a game called runescape where there's this thing called the wilderness with rare mobs where open pvp is supported. Simply having all open pvp is just stupid. Restricting it to certain areas is ok cause you know there's a risk and even then that's a problem. So tell me if you were doing a quest and someone ganked you over and over and over again, would that not frustrate you? So yah I'm against it unless it's done okishly like cross faction ganking and such
I can see your point of view and thats why games should have servers for both. I think games should only make probably 1 or 2 servers with open pvp because most people just dont like it. then have servers with pvp in certain areas and also have servers with only pve. there is a place for them all if done right.
Originally posted by prpshrt As many others may have said, in a game like GW2 where you're ment to go rez people who are dead and etc, open world pvp wouldn't fit. And I agree it maybe hilarious for the person doing it but it isn't for the person on the recieving end. In fact you could go as far as calling it cyber bullying. Yea I know I sound like a sap but having someone take out their real life frustration on you in a cyber world doesn't really cry out "fun game" to me. If anything, WoW's pvp servers are a good example of how it can be done properly or in a game called runescape where there's this thing called the wilderness with rare mobs where open pvp is supported. Simply having all open pvp is just stupid. Restricting it to certain areas is ok cause you know there's a risk and even then that's a problem. So tell me if you were doing a quest and someone ganked you over and over and over again, would that not frustrate you? So yah I'm against it unless it's done okishly like cross faction ganking and such
I can see your point of view and thats why games should have servers for both. I think games should only make probably 1 or 2 servers with open pvp because most people just dont like it. then have servers with pvp in certain areas and also have servers with only pve. there is a place for them all if done right.
It depends on the size of the audience. If there is not enough to even support ONE owpvp server, why should a dev bother?
Having said there, there *are* pvp servers even in a game like WOW ... so there is some place to go if people like PVP.
I dunno, I hate Arena PVP. Open PVP with castle sieges, ideally 3 factions, is great. Best PVP there is. ^^ Currently love the GW2 WvW, and liked DAoC and WAR open PVP. It just gets repetitive after a few weeks or so.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
I don't like PVP in general. I don't like the ganking, the griefing, the unbalance.
I used to play Unreal Tournament, and that game was really balanced, everyone was 100% the same, but in MMO PVP that's not the case, there is also more of a competitive attitude in PVP MMO, people get a kick out of abusing others, lots of kids love to do nothing more than to ruin your day, that's the goal, I don't like it. I love PVE though.
The game needs to be designed for it, and it has to have concequences so that it doesn't turn into a gank fest with 100 13 year olds spamming LOL and killing noobs half their level.
L2 and EVE does it right I think. Not sure if L2 still has the criminal system though.
I don't hate it. It's just that most Dev don't do it right. First and most importantly, a game has to be fun for someone to want to play it. Secondly, If Dev allow out-leveled toons to pawn under leveled toons, it's going to be no fun for the under leveled. It shouldn't be any fun for the over leveled as well but some folks like it.
Maybe if they make a game completely skill based with zero stat improvements, then maybe.
just my opinion i know alot of people dont agree because they think CC adds strategy or somthing, but i think anytime a couple people can just lock down sombody and kill them without that person not even being able to control his character isnt pvp at all. and thats why there are so many people who complain about being ganked in open pvp because they honestly dont even stand a chance when out numbered.
I'm one of those who like crowd control.
However, crowde control doesn't have to mean "being locked down and never able to control his character. It's failry easy to create small crowd control moments and make it so that once a player experiences such an event that they are immune to further similiar events for a period of time.
Though I'm not a fan of "stealth" as it isn't really stealth but more about invisibility, it's pretty easy to make to so that being invisibile and then returning from that state makes you more vulnerable, makes you a bit "sick" if you will and therefore you have a penaltty to everything you do.
However, gaeanprayer says it best conerning the OP's statement that:
I personally like the OWPVP and being able to mess with someones day while there gathering, questing whatever there doing .
Well, OP, there you go.
As a point of note, I like Open world pvp. But I tend to like it when I'm in the mood for it and I dont' like it when I want to kick back and just relax. So I just don't play games or servers with open world pvp when I'm not in the mood. Problem solved for me.
It really is about changing your paradigm. Currently, I'm playing the heck out of Dark Souls. You die all the time in dark souls. And you can even go through a portal and get "one shot". But shifting my paradigm from "I want to progress" to "ok here are the challenges, what do I need to do to surmount them" makes dying a non-issue.
Same can be applied with open world pvp. If you are ready for it and you are there knowing that will be your experience then it's not going to piss you off.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
call people carebears or whatever but the only people who EVER cry about not enough OWPVP are the douchebags who get off on ganking.
How in the world you find beating up people WAY lower than you is nothing more than a bully mentality. Most decent people just dont find this enjoyable on either end. Furthermore, those same people who endlessly enjoy ganking, will spend a miniscule amount of time in fair match PVP as they just dont have the skill for it.
PVP is a joke in most games, and I am thankful for the fact that it is a MAJORITY of people who call for and want PVP, Ill just carebear through the game, thanks. I'd rather help someone complete a quest, defeat a boss or get to a part of the game they cant alone than gank them just to do it.
Guess thats why I play healers a lot. I'd say thats just me, but fortunately, it is not. Ganking is petty, flame on, but its the truth
I never understand why people worry about ganking in OWPvP.
I've played WoW, Aion, Tera, AoC and others on PvP servers. I often hear people moaning about ganking on this site but from my experience it really doesn't happen that often. If it's particularly problematic you can always go to another area or something.
I've stopped playing games for countless reasons, but being ganked has never been one of them.
Why is it that people do not like true open world pvp, where you can gank anyone while they are questing etc. I enjoyed it in wow while it existed (vanilla-slightly BC), Rift was good, and currently gaming in Tera.
Is it the annoyance of being ganked and not being able to defend yourself. Does it provide to much of a challenge. Or is our generation just lazy and prefer to sit in a town and just que for stuff.
I personally like the OWPVP and being able to mess with someones day while there gathering, questing whatever there doing .
im not a PvP guy but i love open world PvP. I love questing and finding one or more players around my same level and kill at least one, if i die i get reinforcements (guildies or friends) and take revenge. it is so much fun.
Now, the reason i play on PvE servers is because im tired of questing and instead of finding one or more players around my level that are also questing all i find is a freaking max level douche killing lowbies with one hit.
So.... yeah... there is a problem with OWPVP right there.
there is a fix to that problem tho... scale down the levels to the area you are in, like GW2 is doing. That will definitely help other mmos to keep a fresh open world pvp wherever you find people.
Comments
I don't like OWPVP because there is rarely any pvp happening. It's usually just ganking or zerging.
What's the point if it's me vs an entire group of people just one-shotting me?
What's the point if it's a higher level player getting kicks by killing me repeatedly?
For every one decent encounter, you experience dozens of pointless ones. I'd much rather queue up for a consensual pvp battleground. Ironically, I get to have way more 1v1 or 1v2 encounters in a battleground that I ever have in OWPVP. Not to mention group battles.
@madazz ... your reasons why SWTOR PvP sucked .... no objective, no gain, no reward... Yes these are valid reasons. So too are BattleFelons reasons for not liking SWTOR PvP. I have seen similar situations in other MMOs that the two of you discuss and it always sucked, for both your reasons. That's part of the problem with SWTOR PvP, there are so many problem areas it's hard for any Dev to know what to fix first to be honest.
SWTOR reeks like a Thanksgiving Turkey that got pulled out of the Oven two hours early and allowed to sit out on the counter. Undercooked, and not taken care of properly.
All the problems with PvP mentioned over the last few posts are genuine but they can be solved. You can have a good objective for PvP. You can level up players when they go into a PvP zone. You can make it a group effort, which makes it harder for gankers to find a lone victim.
We saw leveling up in PvP missions in SWTOR, they could have done that for those who entered the open PvP zone too. Realm objectives in DAOC show how you set up a good objective. All thse things have been done, but concentrating on graphics or in SWTOR's case cutscenes and voice overs, is the prime thrust of todays MMO's.
Graphics before gameplay rules the roost.
Best way to solve PVP problems ... put PVP in an instanced arena/battleground. Only those who want it will engage in it. Problem solved.
Umm...maybe because I don't want to be "ganked" while I am questing? I play a game for my enjoyment. Not to provide you with a means to make yourself feel better about whatever it is you're lacking in the real world. That's what moms are for. If you don't have one, get a dog or something. Just leave me the f**k alone.
SWG had great PVP. Open world Rebel VS Imperial, space where Neutrals could pick which faction to fight along side with, and a great PVP Bounty Hunter system. The first year or so was great, once buffs became the deciding factor it lost a lot of it's luster.
EQ had really good open world PVP on each of it's three servers. Most people played on the PVE servers but if you were on one of the Zek servers, the game had an entirely new dimension.
The point is you can have open world PVP and have a great system, but you cannot have it in a quest-hub, themepark type of game. The best you can do is put it where the PVEers are not, like LOTRO's Ettenmoors which is suprisingly good.
People don't like OW pvp because it's never fair, and there is always a loser. In most cases, that loser stays the loser. Then the losers go somewhere else.
OWPVP had it's time. It's time has passed. People don't watch football because one team has more players. They watch it because it's competitive. OWPVP will continue to exist. But only for small niche groups and the developers who cater to them.
That is why e-sport is the way to go.
i believe bad game mechanics have ruined OW PVP.
The only game i have played that had really great open pvp was Asherons Call, and after trying many many other MMOs over the years i realize a few things that made AC pvp work above all the rest.
You could fight and beat multiple enemys with skill. the game had NO CC and NO Stealth so when you were off doing your thing and 3 guys rolled up, you wernt just dead from CC lock down, or some guy who runs around stealth all over the place waiting for you to be half dead fighting a mob then pops out and 2 shots you.
When you take away the crutch of CC and stealth in pvp and add the fact that you have to actually hit the enemy with magic and missle attacks you open up a whole new world for pvp. plus the fact that its skill based instead of classes AND its a real open world instead of instances all over the place also help make the experience great for open pvp.
just my opinion i know alot of people dont agree because they think CC adds strategy or somthing, but i think anytime a couple people can just lock down sombody and kill them without that person not even being able to control his character isnt pvp at all. and thats why there are so many people who complain about being ganked in open pvp because they honestly dont even stand a chance when out numbered.
They probably don't like it because ganking in WoW is just bullying with no accountability. Any serious PvP game not only has death penalties but also accountability, like Shadowbane, Lineage 2, etc. WoW PvP is just annoying.
I can see your point of view and thats why games should have servers for both. I think games should only make probably 1 or 2 servers with open pvp because most people just dont like it. then have servers with pvp in certain areas and also have servers with only pve. there is a place for them all if done right.
It depends on the size of the audience. If there is not enough to even support ONE owpvp server, why should a dev bother?
Having said there, there *are* pvp servers even in a game like WOW ... so there is some place to go if people like PVP.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
I don't like PVP in general. I don't like the ganking, the griefing, the unbalance.
I used to play Unreal Tournament, and that game was really balanced, everyone was 100% the same, but in MMO PVP that's not the case, there is also more of a competitive attitude in PVP MMO, people get a kick out of abusing others, lots of kids love to do nothing more than to ruin your day, that's the goal, I don't like it. I love PVE though.
The game needs to be designed for it, and it has to have concequences so that it doesn't turn into a gank fest with 100 13 year olds spamming LOL and killing noobs half their level.
L2 and EVE does it right I think. Not sure if L2 still has the criminal system though.
I don't hate it. It's just that most Dev don't do it right. First and most importantly, a game has to be fun for someone to want to play it. Secondly, If Dev allow out-leveled toons to pawn under leveled toons, it's going to be no fun for the under leveled. It shouldn't be any fun for the over leveled as well but some folks like it.
Maybe if they make a game completely skill based with zero stat improvements, then maybe.
I'm one of those who like crowd control.
However, crowde control doesn't have to mean "being locked down and never able to control his character. It's failry easy to create small crowd control moments and make it so that once a player experiences such an event that they are immune to further similiar events for a period of time.
Though I'm not a fan of "stealth" as it isn't really stealth but more about invisibility, it's pretty easy to make to so that being invisibile and then returning from that state makes you more vulnerable, makes you a bit "sick" if you will and therefore you have a penaltty to everything you do.
However, gaeanprayer says it best conerning the OP's statement that:
I personally like the OWPVP and being able to mess with someones day while there gathering, questing whatever there doing .
Well, OP, there you go.
As a point of note, I like Open world pvp. But I tend to like it when I'm in the mood for it and I dont' like it when I want to kick back and just relax. So I just don't play games or servers with open world pvp when I'm not in the mood. Problem solved for me.
It really is about changing your paradigm. Currently, I'm playing the heck out of Dark Souls. You die all the time in dark souls. And you can even go through a portal and get "one shot". But shifting my paradigm from "I want to progress" to "ok here are the challenges, what do I need to do to surmount them" makes dying a non-issue.
Same can be applied with open world pvp. If you are ready for it and you are there knowing that will be your experience then it's not going to piss you off.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
call people carebears or whatever but the only people who EVER cry about not enough OWPVP are the douchebags who get off on ganking.
How in the world you find beating up people WAY lower than you is nothing more than a bully mentality. Most decent people just dont find this enjoyable on either end. Furthermore, those same people who endlessly enjoy ganking, will spend a miniscule amount of time in fair match PVP as they just dont have the skill for it.
PVP is a joke in most games, and I am thankful for the fact that it is a MAJORITY of people who call for and want PVP, Ill just carebear through the game, thanks. I'd rather help someone complete a quest, defeat a boss or get to a part of the game they cant alone than gank them just to do it.
Guess thats why I play healers a lot. I'd say thats just me, but fortunately, it is not. Ganking is petty, flame on, but its the truth
i think the gankers, reds and generally villanous players are just very poorly utilized content generators for the pve crowd.
they could be harnessed in such a way that all their "nastyness" results in a more fun environment for everyone else.
I never understand why people worry about ganking in OWPvP.
I've played WoW, Aion, Tera, AoC and others on PvP servers. I often hear people moaning about ganking on this site but from my experience it really doesn't happen that often. If it's particularly problematic you can always go to another area or something.
I've stopped playing games for countless reasons, but being ganked has never been one of them.
im not a PvP guy but i love open world PvP. I love questing and finding one or more players around my same level and kill at least one, if i die i get reinforcements (guildies or friends) and take revenge. it is so much fun.
Now, the reason i play on PvE servers is because im tired of questing and instead of finding one or more players around my level that are also questing all i find is a freaking max level douche killing lowbies with one hit.
So.... yeah... there is a problem with OWPVP right there.
there is a fix to that problem tho... scale down the levels to the area you are in, like GW2 is doing. That will definitely help other mmos to keep a fresh open world pvp wherever you find people.
When I'm in the open world I'm usually, leveling, gathering mats or doing dailies. In none of those instances do I want to deal with being ganked.
I loved classic AV in WOW but hated Tarren Mill vs. Southshore zerg fests where ranged = king.