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Is Blizzard just that damn good, or are the rest of the developers just that bad?

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  • LordOfPitLordOfPit North Bay, ONPosts: 86Member
    Coming back to this thread, I can safely say that Blizzard used to be a great developer back in the days of their first titles. The Lost Vikings II was great, as were Warcraft and Starcraft. Regarding World of Warcraft, I have to say it was one of the MMO's that taught me a lot about MMO's, specifically what I dislike in an MMO and in an MMO community.
  • TomBaker_fanTomBaker_fan Elmhurst, ILPosts: 131Member
    Originally posted by bcbully

     

     

    With that said, how is it possible that Blizzard can take this old game with an older engine and probably sell more copies of it's 4th expansion than GW2, SwTOR, TSW and RIFT combined?! 

     

     

     

     

    Not this time.....

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  • BercilakBercilak Albion Online BerlinPosts: 108Member
    Originally posted by TomBaker_fan
    Originally posted by bcbully

     

     

    With that said, how is it possible that Blizzard can take this old game with an older engine and probably sell more copies of it's 4th expansion than GW2, SwTOR, TSW and RIFT combined?! 

     

     

     

     

    Not this time.....

    They for sure will sell more MoP boxes then GW2 will. 

     

    But the problem is that it is not the fault of Blizzard. Blizzard is doing there thing and they are doing pretty good. It is rather the fault of all other developers who are jumping on the "me2" bandwagon and making cheap copies of WoW. 

    There is actually only EVE I can think of which survived with a completely different gameplay. All other MMOs are either mere WoW clones from big publishers or they are under financed experimentel MMO who suffer other problems (e.g. lack of graphics, too much grinding, not enoug content ...)

    I mean look at GW2. Definetly a great MMO but in the end behind all those wanna be dynamic event is the same old PvE grind just with a nicer package... (a very beautifull one for sure). 

    What we need are new game mechanics and new ideas by at least decent studios who are willing to take a risk and do something really "new" in a high quality.

     

    Kind regards,

    Bercilak

     

  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    If blizzard are "that good"
    Runic must be "omfgawesomesauce"
  • Angier2758Angier2758 Mt. Prospect, ILPosts: 1,011Member
    You say that a de is just the same ol pve.... the only way it wouldn't be is if mobs hunted players.... which would be awesome, but I think players wouldn't like that a lot.
  • BercilakBercilak Albion Online BerlinPosts: 108Member
    Originally posted by ShakyMo
    If blizzard are "that good"
    Runic must be "omfgawesomesauce"

    Why is that?

    Because they made a good Diablo copy?

     

    I think you don't get me. I am saying is that Blizzard made a great game with WoW which is a game I don't like but which a lot of people like (it is actually one of the most successfull games ever), so hard to argue that it's a bad game, right. 

    What I am saying is the probelm is not Blizzard who made WoW, but every other company who is trying to make cheap copies of WoW and not making their own good game with innovative concepts.

     

    Kind regards,

    Bercilak

     

    PS.: I like Torchlight 2^^

  • bcbullybcbully Westland, MIPosts: 8,277Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Angier2758
    You say that a de is just the same ol pve.... the only way it wouldn't be is if mobs hunted players.... which would be awesome, but I think players wouldn't like that a lot.

    Get this man a job!

  • GishgeronGishgeron Princeton, KYPosts: 1,287Member
    Originally posted by Bercilak
    Originally posted by ShakyMo
    If blizzard are "that good"
    Runic must be "omfgawesomesauce"

    Why is that?

    Because they made a good Diablo copy?

     

    I think you don't get me. I am saying is that Blizzard made a great game with WoW which is a game I don't like but which a lot of people like (it is actually one of the most successfull games ever), so hard to argue that it's a bad game, right. 

    What I am saying is the probelm is not Blizzard who made WoW, but every other company who is trying to make cheap copies of WoW and not making their own good game with innovative concepts.

     

    Kind regards,

    Bercilak

     

    PS.: I like Torchlight 2^^

     

      Odd though, don't you think?  We hate "cheap ripoff WoW mmos" but love cheap ripoff diablo clones?  Most MMO's really aren't ripoffs either...they all just use standardized gaming elements that are a clear choice for the genre.  Sometimes innovation doesn't fit with a theme.  Perhaps the problem has nothing to do with mmo gaming, and more to do with the fact we just don't want mmo's anymore.  Maybe we still want a massive multiplayer experience...but maybe that doesn't fit the MMO genre as clearly as it once did.

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  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    The thing with tl2 is it really a rip off, when there are probably more people from diablo 1 working on it than diablo 3.

    Something went terribly wrong with blizzard when they merged with activision. Not getting bought up by ea wrong, but they aren't what they used to be for sure. They used to be about make good games, get a good reputation, the money will come. With diablo 3 it was more design the game to make as much money as possible then try and squeeze the fun in somewhere. I don't hold much hope for Titan.
  • Darklotus79Darklotus79 HEBER SPRINGS, ARPosts: 61Member

    D3 may have been considered a failure to alot of people. Even if so the game still has a huge fanbase. SC2 was a huge success. Lots of people enjoy those 2 titles and thats the only 2 games blizzard has released in 10yrs. Aside from WoW expansions. Blizzard may not live up to some Godly expectations , but they sure do know how to make games run very well.

    Haters are always gonna hate..WoW was and is still top notch for its genre. Most people can look past the shallowness of caring about awsome graphics. WoW may not have the best graphics but the game offers so much.  So I say yes! There that good!

  • GishgeronGishgeron Princeton, KYPosts: 1,287Member
    Originally posted by ShakyMo
    The thing with tl2 is it really a rip off, when there are probably more people from diablo 1 working on it than diablo 3.

    Something went terribly wrong with blizzard when they merged with activision. Not getting bought up by ea wrong, but they aren't what they used to be for sure. They used to be about make good games, get a good reputation, the money will come. With diablo 3 it was more design the game to make as much money as possible then try and squeeze the fun in somewhere. I don't hold much hope for Titan.

     

      I would still call it a ripoff, particularly in regard to what meaning I had behind calling it that in my post.  A new property in a defined genre that, more or less, does nothing but replicate features which have proven successfull in that genre.  There really isn't new ground being tread from Torchlight.  WHY that is has no bearing on this.  What does have bearing is the fact we love it anyway.  Its well done, and fun.  How much it copied from an already proven formula was irrelevant.

      So why do we hate it so much when MMO gaming does the very same thing?  All FPS games basically rehash the same mechanics.  All hack and slash games do.  Why is it so hard to expect MMO gaming to do the same?  More, why can't we simply accept that we no longer want MMO gaming?  We may still want online worlds to explore...even still want tons of players in those worlds.  But the genre, as it is currently defined and structured, is set in stone.  They will all have the same UI, because chaning game controls is a sure fire way to lose players.  They will all have similar mechanics because the design philosophy of the genre is to drag out content to ensure more long term players.  They will all feel the same since they rely so heavily on RPG math to function.

      Why do we not just admit we want a new genre.

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  • lilHealalilHeala ZwollePosts: 512Member Uncommon
    It got nothing to do with quality just with the state of the mmo genre and its community and why WoW became succesfull is a matter of timing and being the first mainstream mmo. So there's no answer for me in the poll. I don't think blizzard is all that great, many of the good devs (like for example the A.net founders, of which one was lead dev on WoW before its release) left that company over the years and several of them have stated that part of their decision was they couldn't use their creativity all that much anymore and were forced to stick to the same formula for everything.
  • JemcrystalJemcrystal Champaign, ILPosts: 1,552Member Uncommon
    For the hundredth time, WoW was successful because it allowed people to mod when no one else would (most still don't).  Everyone ran to WoW because of this and the monster got big quick.  Then it became "the game everyone has played" so now it's a social icon.  Plus, their silly cell shade cartoon colored graphics don't lag.  It is not better than other games.

  • neorandomneorandom bev hills, CAPosts: 1,681Member
    Originally posted by bcbully

    Let me start by sayin I played WoW for five years, with an embarrassing amout of time  /played on just my main not to mention my 8 alts. I stopped playing about a year and a half ago, and have no plans to go back. WoW is dated, and was taken in a direction that I could not agree with. Which brought a level of distrust for Blizzard that hasn't eased yet. 

     

    With that said, how is it possible that Blizzard can take this old game with an older engine and probably sell more copies of it's 4th expansion than GW2, SwTOR, TSW and RIFT combined?! What does this say about the rest of the developers out there? How is it that Blizzard can make a game where millions of people play for years and these other developers can't make a game where most people want to play 6 months?  To be far I did play RIFT for ten months. I tip my hat to the TRION team, but that's a far cry from years. 

     

    So which one is it? Blizzard is that good, or does the rest of the industry suck that bad? It's either more of one or the other.

     

    edit - and an "e" to the "on" in the pole....

     

     

     

     

    missing option:  people are just too fucking stupid.

  • KasmosKasmos Chapel Hill, NCPosts: 593Member

    Blizzard decided to cater to the masses, and the masses like having their hand held. Blizzard simply does it better than anyone else, hence why they are so successful.

     

    Also why I quit WoW after Battlegrounds was launched.

  • free2playfree2play Toronto, ONPosts: 1,868Member Uncommon

    Blizzard is that lucky.

    They are the Windows of MMO's. as an analogy you could argue there are a lot of Linux platforms out there much better than Windows, some might say Mac is the better OS for holding your hand, yet here is Winblows, still at the top. Why? It's supported and it was given an I-Win card many years ago. The only way for WoW to screw up is if WoW screws up. The only way for other game companies to become better is to play the Apple card. Survive and own your moment when and if it comes.

  • PsychowPsychow SF Giants Territory, CAPosts: 1,784Member
    Originally posted by Kasmos

    Blizzard decided to cater to the masses, and the masses like having their hand held. Blizzard simply does it better than anyone else, hence why they are so successful.

     

    Also why I quit WoW after Battlegrounds was launched.

     

    Dude, you are SO hardcore. Stick to your principles. Don't play silly games just because they are fun. If it's popular, run away!! I like that! keep it up man!

  • bcbullybcbully Westland, MIPosts: 8,277Member Uncommon
    Roll backs with no way to restore? In 2012? The rest are that bad.
  • Lethargic_SynapseLethargic_Synapse Kissimmee, FLPosts: 67Member

    Don't flame me for saying this, but in my personal opinion WoW was a fluke-but a repeatable fluke.  By this, I mean nobody will be able to recreate what Blizzard has done with WoW, with the exception of Blizzard.  But the only reason it will be possible is because it's Blizzard continuing tradition and the fact that many, many, MANY gamers will flock to Titan when it's released because of WoW.

     

    Before WoW, half a million subs was incredible.  WoW took that barrier and bent it over backwards-but no company that has duplicated the WoW model has had success.  WoW was the first solo and casual-friendly MMO and, in my opinion, the most adaptable.  This I would attribute to the devs at Blizzard loving their game, its content, and its players.  (And the cash probably didn't hurt, either.)

  • cronius77cronius77 Fairfax, VAPosts: 1,347Member Uncommon
    some of this stuff people are posting is dillusional at best here , seriously. WOW  on this site is just hated by the masses here and people post nonsense. Im watching more and more people i know getting ready for the panda's in guild wars 2 as we speak because they are sick of shitty customer service , and devs that just are about braindead when it comes to reasonable solutions. Blizzard has said what they want to do , and stuck to their guns not flip flopping over the years to the myriads of cry baby players whom dont even know what they want from one day to the next. While i think wow has outlived itself for a lot of us here, some of you just refuse to accept the game as a good game and people staying with it for all these years just enjoy it.  Right now i was a guild wars 2 fanboi , but i myself am debating giving them the boot because im about sick of their horrible customer service and solutions that punish their playerbase over stupid gold farmers and dungeon crawlers. Not to mention what BCBully said about the rollbacks and flat denial of it. Blizzard may have a game that is old as dirt , but accept it there is still millions more playing it instead of games like guild wars 2 or rift or swtor. Obviously they are doing something right . Oh yeah the retort here is , its just asians playing it and kids , yet the US servers seem to still be packed to the core with players.
  • stratasaurusstratasaurus Seattle, WAPosts: 220Member
    Originally posted by cronius77
    some of this stuff people are posting is dillusional at best here , seriously. WOW  on this site is just hated by the masses here and people post nonsense. Im watching more and more people i know getting ready for the panda's in guild wars 2 as we speak because they are sick of shitty customer service , and devs that just are about braindead when it comes to reasonable solutions. Blizzard has said what they want to do , and stuck to their guns not flip flopping over the years to the myriads of cry baby players whom dont even know what they want from one day to the next. While i think wow has outlived itself for a lot of us here, some of you just refuse to accept the game as a good game and people staying with it for all these years just enjoy it.  Right now i was a guild wars 2 fanboi , but i myself am debating giving them the boot because im about sick of their horrible customer service and solutions that punish their playerbase over stupid gold farmers and dungeon crawlers. Not to mention what BCBully said about the rollbacks and flat denial of it. Blizzard may have a game that is old as dirt , but accept it there is still millions more playing it instead of games like guild wars 2 or rift or swtor. Obviously they are doing something right . Oh yeah the retort here is , its just asians playing it and kids , yet the US servers seem to still be packed to the core with players.

    Cronius there is no gold farming in GW2.  I remember vividly the ANET devs saying they produced a economy that was immune to gold farming cause there would be no benefit to gold farming.  Are you telling me this was not true?  I can't believe it.

     

    Blizzard is that good for the only reason they have had 7 years running a high population game and they have experience.  These other devs might be great but they are trying to break into the big leagues and while they may have tons of small market and graduated top of their class there is just no other company that has half of the experience running a multi-million user MMO then Blizzard.  Can't teach experience.

  • TomBaker_fanTomBaker_fan Elmhurst, ILPosts: 131Member
    Originally posted by Bercilak
    Originally posted by TomBaker_fan
    Originally posted by bcbully

     

     

    With that said, how is it possible that Blizzard can take this old game with an older engine and probably sell more copies of it's 4th expansion than GW2, SwTOR, TSW and RIFT combined?! 

     

     

     

     

    Not this time.....

    They for sure will sell more MoP boxes then GW2 will. 

     

     

     

    They will not sell more copies than all of the games that were listed combined. GW2 and Rift will do very well.

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  • TomBaker_fanTomBaker_fan Elmhurst, ILPosts: 131Member
    Originally posted by stratasaurus
     

     

    Blizzard is that good for the only reason they have had 7 years running a high population game and they have experience.  These other devs might be great but they are trying to break into the big leagues and while they may have tons of small market and graduated top of their class there is just no other company that has half of the experience running a multi-million user MMO then Blizzard.  Can't teach experience.

    Trion is doing just fine. Rift is a huge success, Defiant is ground breaking, combining a TV show with an online game. No idea how or if it will work, but kudos for trying something different. EON looks to be very successful. Trion is big boy now, and they are doing very well.

    I don't dislike Blizzard, MOP should be a great game, people aren't even tlaking about the fact they are updating skill systems and tweaking alot of the the basic game. It is not just "pandaland", but all people see is pandaland which show the common sense factor for most MMO plahyers is very low, as are social skills. The way people treat each other on this board is proof enough for that.

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  • wb8594wb8594 Santa Ana, CAPosts: 15Member

    I would say Blizzard was in the right place at the perfect time with the right game.

    WOW borrowed heavily and learned from the mmo's that came before it. EQ, Ultima, etc.

    They used faily simple graphics so the vast majority of the PC's at the time could play the game.

    Along with a great storyline it quickly became/is the most popular MMO to date.

    Just like the vastly popular old television shows when you only had 3 major networks at the time.

    ABC, CBS, NBC...... it is doubtful that any new mmo will reach let alone surpass the subs that wow enjoys anytime in the near future.

  • KasmosKasmos Chapel Hill, NCPosts: 593Member
    Originally posted by Psychow
    Originally posted by Kasmos

    Blizzard decided to cater to the masses, and the masses like having their hand held. Blizzard simply does it better than anyone else, hence why they are so successful.

     

    Also why I quit WoW after Battlegrounds was launched.

     

    Dude, you are SO hardcore. Stick to your principles. Don't play silly games just because they are fun. If it's popular, run away!! I like that! keep it up man!

    That's the thing, your definition of fun and mine are completely different it seems. I'm a fan of the old school MMOs, you're a fan of themepark MMOs. Both have their place in the MMO marketplace, and both cater to particular playstyles. My point still stands.

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