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Guild Wars 2 contradicts itself, and is left standing in a weird place.

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  • Angier2758Angier2758 Mt. Prospect, ILPosts: 1,011Member
    Originally posted by AegisSaga

    The game tries to sell you the idea that you shoulnd't grind, that gear / level doesn't really matter and that the game starts at level 1, not at endgame. But it's not true, you see:

     

    - My damage almost tripled in WvW going from level 79 to 80 with exotics. Gear and level do make a huge difference in WvW. After experiencing it that way, I almost feel useless when entering with my low level alts. In the top tier of servers, most are 80 now. If you enter there as level 25, you'll get demolished.

     

    - You kill faster and easier with gear in the open world, even when downscaled. At level 70, I had average gear and when downscaled, sure enogh, mobs died faster than when I had the zone's level; however, when I got to 80 and geared myself, then went back to that downscaled zone, mobs died almost twice as fast. 

     

    - Dungeons become easier. I played the same dungeon both when I had average gear and then at 80 with exotics, there IS a difference. 

     

    - SPvP is truly the only aspect of the game where gear / level doesn't make you more powerful, for obvious reasons. 

     

    Now I'm actually thankful that there's some kind of carrot on a stick. I certainly enjoy progression, it's why I play RPGs and not FPS (although even FPS nowadays implement some form of progression). But even though there IS a reason to progress, the game tries to deny it implementing ridiculous mechanics. You can't farm a zone for too long, yet if you want to craft your gear by yourself you must do so. You can't grind dungeons for long, yet if you want the gear rewards you must do so. You can't grind DE's for long, yet if you want the karma gear you must do so. The game is bascially telling you: "Hey, you want to progress? Sure, just do this dungeon 80 times. But oh, wait, don't." Right now, if you hit 80 and want a max stat gear set, you must do either:

     

    - Make 40-60 gold and buy it. This is a huge gold grind, coupled with teleportation / repair costs.

     

    - Run a dungeon 80 times. Sure, dungeons are fun the first 4-5 times or so. But when you realize you need at least 8 runs for ONE piece of gear, the whole thing goes from "Hmm, this is fun." to "PLEASE MAKE IT STOP!". 

     

    - Do about 720 DEs. Yes, 720*320 ~= 250,000 karma that you need. 

     

    BUT WAIT, you want to gear yourself according to Precision/Power/Crit to maximize your specific Thief build? Then no, I don't care how much you like DEs, you have to farm gold or dungeons. Oh, what's that, you want to try a Condition damage build now with that Thief of yours? Sure, just grind for ANOTHER gear set again! The current endgame in GW2 is a bigger grind than raiding two times a week ever was. The concept that "you don't need to grind" is nullified by the fact that you DO become more powerful with gear. Then factor in alts, or...if you're brave...legendaries (which, for example, require 2,000,000 karma besides other things). It's a grim outlook indeed. But, ahhh, here's the catch: 

     

    You can take a level 1 character all the way to 80 and get full exotics for the low price of $200.00. That's right, you can skip all the game's leveling content, and get a max stat gear set for real money! What a deal! If that's not pay to win, I don't know what is. I really like GW2's leveling, but it's endgame feels to be in the stone ages more so than a next gen MMO.

     

     

     Don't we have another post on the first page saying the exact opposite thing yet still complaining?

     

  • XtenXten over there, KSPosts: 119Member
    Originally posted by Medicated03
    Originally posted by chrisatron

    I love how these days, people won't even bother to read or understand the points made by the OP or other people defending his very valid points. It's like you have to back-track over and over again just so people fully understand what It Is you were actually talking about; it's very frustrating... 

    Also, If you can buy gear In a cash shop, with real money and with that gear instantly be ahead of most other players in terms of damage etc then that Is clearly P2W. Even If you can get that gear yourself In the game; It still makes It P2W. It basicallly cuts out all the guff and gives you instant glory. 

    Here's a valid point, what If you could buy tier gear In WoW's cash shop?

    Full Tier 11 (or whatever It Is now) for the low price of £20.00

    Would that not be P2W? or would that be perfectly legitimate. 

    Follow a blind man, shame on you. Preach that he can see, well... you're a moron. 

     

    +1 your first paragraph they have been doing since day 1, its part of the fanboys defense mechanism, they always use this tactic when defending GW2.

    Now im gonna put this simply, if i can drop $500 on gems, use that gold to lvl to 80 in a few hours via crafting and have really good gear for my brand new 1 day lvl 80 char, i call that pay to win, sure i will be missing skill points but w.e if you can buy a max lvl toon with gems then its pay to win, may as well just set up an account market lol. Saddest thing is $500 is possibly way more than needed right now to craft your way to cap with gems.

    Pay to win is simply gaining advantage over non paying players, which you can clearly do in GW2, its not on the same scope as PWI wher you can pay to 1 shot people but its pay to win reguardless.

     

    There isn't even 1 thing in there that holds up.

     

    .You can drop $500 on gems

    .You can use it to lvl to 80 with crafting

    .You will miss key designs for the armor that you are aiming for so since you wont get those that way so say goodbey to that brilliant idea

    .You will buy the L80 armor from the shop with stats that are the same as any basic fresh L80 toon and gets for free  (its intended for remodeling for a reason.)

    .You walk into WvWvW

    .You get you ass handed to you on you $500 toon with n00b 80 stats and no traits skills.

     

    Followed by :

     

    .You going back to te very first zone

    .Start doing your skillpoints

     

     

    And of course for that $500 you missed the entire game itself and turned it into a very expensive crafting grind that netted you less result then if you had actually played , experienced and possibly *gosh enjoyed playing the game.

     

    You talk the talk ,now learn to walk.

  • bone12bone12 herningPosts: 31Member
    Originally posted by chrisatron
    Originally posted by bone12
    Originally posted by AegisSaga

    The game tries to sell you the idea that you shoulnd't grind, that gear / level doesn't really matter and that the game starts at level 1, not at endgame. But it's not true, you see:

     

    - My damage almost tripled in WvW going from level 79 to 80 with exotics. Gear and level do make a huge difference in WvW. After experiencing it that way, I almost feel useless when entering with my low level alts. In the top tier of servers, most are 80 now. If you enter there as level 25, you'll get demolished.

     

    - You kill faster and easier with gear in the open world, even when downscaled. At level 70, I had average gear and when downscaled, sure enogh, mobs died faster than when I had the zone's level; however, when I got to 80 and geared myself, then went back to that downscaled zone, mobs died almost twice as fast. 

     

    - Dungeons become easier. I played the same dungeon both when I had average gear and then at 80 with exotics, there IS a difference. 

     

    - SPvP is truly the only aspect of the game where gear / level doesn't make you more powerful, for obvious reasons. 

     

    Now I'm actually thankful that there's some kind of carrot on a stick. I certainly enjoy progression, it's why I play RPGs and not FPS (although even FPS nowadays implement some form of progression). But even though there IS a reason to progress, the game tries to deny it implementing ridiculous mechanics. You can't farm a zone for too long, yet if you want to craft your gear by yourself you must do so. You can't grind dungeons for long, yet if you want the gear rewards you must do so. You can't grind DE's for long, yet if you want the karma gear you must do so. The game is bascially telling you: "Hey, you want to progress? Sure, just do this dungeon 80 times. But oh, wait, don't." Right now, if you hit 80 and want a max stat gear set, you must do either:

     

    - Make 40-60 gold and buy it. This is a huge gold grind, coupled with teleportation / repair costs.

     

    - Run a dungeon 80 times. Sure, dungeons are fun the first 4-5 times or so. But when you realize you need at least 8 runs for ONE piece of gear, the whole thing goes from "Hmm, this is fun." to "PLEASE MAKE IT STOP!". 

     

    - Do about 720 DEs. Yes, 720*320 ~= 250,000 karma that you need. 

     

    BUT WAIT, you want to gear yourself according to Precision/Power/Crit to maximize your specific Thief build? Then no, I don't care how much you like DEs, you have to farm gold or dungeons. Oh, what's that, you want to try a Condition damage build now with that Thief of yours? Sure, just grind for ANOTHER gear set again! The current endgame in GW2 is a bigger grind than raiding two times a week ever was. The concept that "you don't need to grind" is nullified by the fact that you DO become more powerful with gear. Then factor in alts, or...if you're brave...legendaries (which, for example, require 2,000,000 karma besides other things). It's a grim outlook indeed. But, ahhh, here's the catch: 

     

    You can take a level 1 character all the way to 80 and get full exotics for the low price of $200.00. That's right, you can skip all the game's leveling content, and get a max stat gear set for real money! What a deal! If that's not pay to win, I don't know what is. I really like GW2's leveling, but it's endgame feels to be in the stone ages more so than a next gen MMO.

     

     

    [mod edit]

    Did you just call someone a kid for making valid points? wow... 

    Also guild wars 2 has to be the most casual game I've ever played, It Is far from hardcore; have you played EvE? 

    [mod edit] GW2 got perfect system.. Lots of Fun.. Dungeons, etc.. pvp.WvW and yes Guild wars 2 is hardcore.. u dont even know it yet.. Gw2 is hardcore with its dungeons, and the legendary items u can make is a pain. and Eve is not hardcore its the worst and most boring game that exist... Play gw2 and have fun.. doing dungeon is also fun and that Nerf only made it better... so u wouldn't be able to farm same dungeon for more then the explorer mode allows.. Like a dungeon called Twillight Arbor allows u to run though 3 times cause it got 3 ways.. simple and easy to know...

     

    Try to do dungeons in gw2 u be surprised how hard it is. but i never hope they nerf them

  • The_KorriganThe_Korrigan EastPosts: 2,630Member
    Originally posted by Medicated03

    Now im gonna put this simply, if i can drop $500 on gems, use that gold to lvl to 80 in a few hours via crafting and have really good gear for my brand new 1 day lvl 80 char, i call that pay to win, sure i will be missing skill points but w.e if you can buy a max lvl toon with gems then its pay to win, may as well just set up an account market lol.

    And I call that an idiot who just paid $60 (game "box" price) + $500 = $560 to completely bypass the content of a game. An idiot who just paid $560 to NOT play a game. But whatever floats one's boat.

    Not ot mention:

    Originally posted by Xten 

    .You can drop $500 on gems

    .You can use it to lvl to 80 with crafting

    .You will miss key designs for the armor that you are aiming for so since you wont get those that way so say goodbey to that brilliant idea

    .You will buy the L80 armor from the shop with stats that are the same as any basic fresh L80 toon and gets for free  (its intended for remodeling for a reason.)

    .You walk into WvWvW

    .You get you ass handed to you on you $500 toon with n00b 80 stats and no traits skills.

     

    Followed by :

     

    .You going back to te very first zone

    .Start doing your skillpoints

    A double idiot, actually :)

    If you wonder why I don't answer your posts, it's most likely because you are on my block list - so don't waste your time.

    image

  • Kaelano1Kaelano1 Peoria, ILPosts: 375Member
    Originally posted by bone12
    Originally posted by chrisatron
    Originally posted by bone12
    Originally posted by AegisSaga

    The game tries to sell you the idea that you shoulnd't grind, that gear / level doesn't really matter and that the game starts at level 1, not at endgame. But it's not true, you see:

     

    - My damage almost tripled in WvW going from level 79 to 80 with exotics. Gear and level do make a huge difference in WvW. After experiencing it that way, I almost feel useless when entering with my low level alts. In the top tier of servers, most are 80 now. If you enter there as level 25, you'll get demolished.

     

    - You kill faster and easier with gear in the open world, even when downscaled. At level 70, I had average gear and when downscaled, sure enogh, mobs died faster than when I had the zone's level; however, when I got to 80 and geared myself, then went back to that downscaled zone, mobs died almost twice as fast. 

     

    - Dungeons become easier. I played the same dungeon both when I had average gear and then at 80 with exotics, there IS a difference. 

     

    - SPvP is truly the only aspect of the game where gear / level doesn't make you more powerful, for obvious reasons. 

     

    Now I'm actually thankful that there's some kind of carrot on a stick. I certainly enjoy progression, it's why I play RPGs and not FPS (although even FPS nowadays implement some form of progression). But even though there IS a reason to progress, the game tries to deny it implementing ridiculous mechanics. You can't farm a zone for too long, yet if you want to craft your gear by yourself you must do so. You can't grind dungeons for long, yet if you want the gear rewards you must do so. You can't grind DE's for long, yet if you want the karma gear you must do so. The game is bascially telling you: "Hey, you want to progress? Sure, just do this dungeon 80 times. But oh, wait, don't." Right now, if you hit 80 and want a max stat gear set, you must do either:

     

    - Make 40-60 gold and buy it. This is a huge gold grind, coupled with teleportation / repair costs.

     

    - Run a dungeon 80 times. Sure, dungeons are fun the first 4-5 times or so. But when you realize you need at least 8 runs for ONE piece of gear, the whole thing goes from "Hmm, this is fun." to "PLEASE MAKE IT STOP!". 

     

    - Do about 720 DEs. Yes, 720*320 ~= 250,000 karma that you need. 

     

    BUT WAIT, you want to gear yourself according to Precision/Power/Crit to maximize your specific Thief build? Then no, I don't care how much you like DEs, you have to farm gold or dungeons. Oh, what's that, you want to try a Condition damage build now with that Thief of yours? Sure, just grind for ANOTHER gear set again! The current endgame in GW2 is a bigger grind than raiding two times a week ever was. The concept that "you don't need to grind" is nullified by the fact that you DO become more powerful with gear. Then factor in alts, or...if you're brave...legendaries (which, for example, require 2,000,000 karma besides other things). It's a grim outlook indeed. But, ahhh, here's the catch: 

     

    You can take a level 1 character all the way to 80 and get full exotics for the low price of $200.00. That's right, you can skip all the game's leveling content, and get a max stat gear set for real money! What a deal! If that's not pay to win, I don't know what is. I really like GW2's leveling, but it's endgame feels to be in the stone ages more so than a next gen MMO.

     

    [mod edit]

    Did you just call someone a kid for making valid points? wow... 

    Also guild wars 2 has to be the most casual game I've ever played, It Is far from hardcore; have you played EvE? 

    [mod edit] GW2 got perfect system.. Lots of Fun.. Dungeons, etc.. pvp.WvW and yes Guild wars 2 is hardcore.. u dont even know it yet.. Gw2 is hardcore with its dungeons, and the legendary items u can make is a pain. and Eve is not hardcore its the worst and most boring game that exist... Play gw2 and have fun.. doing dungeon is also fun and that Nerf only made it better... so u wouldn't be able to farm same dungeon for more then the explorer mode allows.. Like a dungeon called Twillight Arbor allows u to run though 3 times cause it got 3 ways.. simple and easy to know...

     

    Try to do dungeons in gw2 u be surprised how hard it is. but i never hope they nerf them

    Are you a big fan of rap music? You have that steady flow and inner-city charm.

  • ThaneThane berlinPosts: 2,232Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by AegisSaga

    The game tries to sell you the idea that you shoulnd't grind, that gear / level doesn't really matter and that the game starts at level 1, not at endgame. But it's not true, you see:

     

    - My damage almost tripled in WvW going from level 79 to 80 with exotics. Gear and level do make a huge difference in WvW. After experiencing it that way, I almost feel useless when entering with my low level alts. In the top tier of servers, most are 80 now. If you enter there as level 25, you'll get demolished.

     

    - You kill faster and easier with gear in the open world, even when downscaled. At level 70, I had average gear and when downscaled, sure enogh, mobs died faster than when I had the zone's level; however, when I got to 80 and geared myself, then went back to that downscaled zone, mobs died almost twice as fast. 

     

    - Dungeons become easier. I played the same dungeon both when I had average gear and then at 80 with exotics, there IS a difference. 

     

    - SPvP is truly the only aspect of the game where gear / level doesn't make you more powerful, for obvious reasons. 

     

    Now I'm actually thankful that there's some kind of carrot on a stick. I certainly enjoy progression, it's why I play RPGs and not FPS (although even FPS nowadays implement some form of progression). But even though there IS a reason to progress, the game tries to deny it implementing ridiculous mechanics. You can't farm a zone for too long, yet if you want to craft your gear by yourself you must do so. You can't grind dungeons for long, yet if you want the gear rewards you must do so. You can't grind DE's for long, yet if you want the karma gear you must do so. The game is bascially telling you: "Hey, you want to progress? Sure, just do this dungeon 80 times. But oh, wait, don't." Right now, if you hit 80 and want a max stat gear set, you must do either:

     

    - Make 40-60 gold and buy it. This is a huge gold grind, coupled with teleportation / repair costs.

     

    - Run a dungeon 80 times. Sure, dungeons are fun the first 4-5 times or so. But when you realize you need at least 8 runs for ONE piece of gear, the whole thing goes from "Hmm, this is fun." to "PLEASE MAKE IT STOP!". 

     

    - Do about 720 DEs. Yes, 720*320 ~= 250,000 karma that you need. 

     

    BUT WAIT, you want to gear yourself according to Precision/Power/Crit to maximize your specific Thief build? Then no, I don't care how much you like DEs, you have to farm gold or dungeons. Oh, what's that, you want to try a Condition damage build now with that Thief of yours? Sure, just grind for ANOTHER gear set again! The current endgame in GW2 is a bigger grind than raiding two times a week ever was. The concept that "you don't need to grind" is nullified by the fact that you DO become more powerful with gear. Then factor in alts, or...if you're brave...legendaries (which, for example, require 2,000,000 karma besides other things). It's a grim outlook indeed. But, ahhh, here's the catch: 

     

    You can take a level 1 character all the way to 80 and get full exotics for the low price of $200.00. That's right, you can skip all the game's leveling content, and get a max stat gear set for real money! What a deal! If that's not pay to win, I don't know what is. I really like GW2's leveling, but it's endgame feels to be in the stone ages more so than a next gen MMO.

     

     

    uuuh shocking news. lvl 80 gear is better than lvl 79 gear.

    next time, read some infos first, then do your wall of text.

     

    you can get ALL THAT GEAR FOR FREE TOO.... [mod edit]

    "I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"

  • VorchVorch Somewhere, FLPosts: 800Member

    I believe GW2 has some issues. The dungeon token prices are a bit too high, for instance. And they need to tweak the diminishing returns (which it appears they will since it is not working as they intended.) TP being down is a serious issue, and class balance needs to occur on a regular basis.

     

    However, since September 18th, people have come out of the wood work and made 1000+ posts making mountains out of mole hills.

    If it doesn't work as intended...it will be fixed.

    If it needs tweaking...it will be fixed.

     

    The game is repetitive? It can ONLY be repetitive in one of two ways:

    1. You do repetitive tasks (farming, powerleveling, etc.) ...then you should EXPECT the game to be repetitive. That's what farming is all about.

    2. You consider escorting, gathering, killing, defending, transforming, building, talking, and sieging DEs and Hearts to be repetitive once you do more than 2 of them.

     

    The game isn't P2W. Pay $500 for gems, get to max level in 2 days? Congradulations...people can get to max level in 5-7 days. AND you missed most of the content.

     

    The game is not perfect, but it appears people are trying to call it a Korean grindfest for armor. You can complete 100% of the content with standard lvl 80 armor. The only place you may be at a disadvantage is WvW...a mode that was never intended to be balanced in the first place; it's war where almost anything goes (with in the EULA).

     

    In short, chill the **** out and stop over exaggerating...if you have to spend 25-35 hours to get a piece of OPTIONAL luxury armor, that does not mean that the game is a grind fest and YOU KNOW IT.

    That goes for people who white knight for the game as well...chill the **** out and stop over exaggerating the perfection of this game. The TP is down, there a bugs and bots in many areas, and banning needs to happen more frequently. Yes, ANet has their hands full, but these are IMPORTANT economy breaking issues.

     

    I play the game for fun and the good outweighs the flaws for me. I'll be here for a long time...not because the game is perfect, but because I don't let a damn patch get in the way of me having fun.

     

    "As you read these words, a release is seven days or less away or has just happened within the last seven days— those are now the only two states you’ll find the world of Tyria."...Guild Wars 2

  • IPolygonIPolygon ViennaPosts: 707Member Uncommon

    Vorch wins this round.

    By any chance, are you related to Vork?

  • VorchVorch Somewhere, FLPosts: 800Member
    Originally posted by IPolygon

    Vorch wins this round.

    By any chance, are you related to Vork?

    Nope. Sorry. and yay...i won.

    I don't mind constructive criticism, but people are acting like politicians...they see a crack and make it out to be a 100ft sinkhole; or they see an innovation/evolution and it deserves mention in world history books.

     

    People have lost their ability to play games for fun. They play to either bash the game if they DON'T like it or call all other games inferior if they DO like it. It's getting quite depressing. It's OK to like multiple games in the same genre!

    For instance, I play both street fighter AND tekken!

    "As you read these words, a release is seven days or less away or has just happened within the last seven days— those are now the only two states you’ll find the world of Tyria."...Guild Wars 2

  • chrisatronchrisatron LondonPosts: 139Member
    Originally posted by Kaelano1
    Originally posted by bone12
    Originally posted by chrisatron
    Originally posted by bone12
    Originally posted by AegisSaga

    The game tries to sell you the idea that you shoulnd't grind, that gear / level doesn't really matter and that the game starts at level 1, not at endgame. But it's not true, you see:

     

    - My damage almost tripled in WvW going from level 79 to 80 with exotics. Gear and level do make a huge difference in WvW. After experiencing it that way, I almost feel useless when entering with my low level alts. In the top tier of servers, most are 80 now. If you enter there as level 25, you'll get demolished.

     

    - You kill faster and easier with gear in the open world, even when downscaled. At level 70, I had average gear and when downscaled, sure enogh, mobs died faster than when I had the zone's level; however, when I got to 80 and geared myself, then went back to that downscaled zone, mobs died almost twice as fast. 

     

    - Dungeons become easier. I played the same dungeon both when I had average gear and then at 80 with exotics, there IS a difference. 

     

    - SPvP is truly the only aspect of the game where gear / level doesn't make you more powerful, for obvious reasons. 

     

    Now I'm actually thankful that there's some kind of carrot on a stick. I certainly enjoy progression, it's why I play RPGs and not FPS (although even FPS nowadays implement some form of progression). But even though there IS a reason to progress, the game tries to deny it implementing ridiculous mechanics. You can't farm a zone for too long, yet if you want to craft your gear by yourself you must do so. You can't grind dungeons for long, yet if you want the gear rewards you must do so. You can't grind DE's for long, yet if you want the karma gear you must do so. The game is bascially telling you: "Hey, you want to progress? Sure, just do this dungeon 80 times. But oh, wait, don't." Right now, if you hit 80 and want a max stat gear set, you must do either:

     

    - Make 40-60 gold and buy it. This is a huge gold grind, coupled with teleportation / repair costs.

     

    - Run a dungeon 80 times. Sure, dungeons are fun the first 4-5 times or so. But when you realize you need at least 8 runs for ONE piece of gear, the whole thing goes from "Hmm, this is fun." to "PLEASE MAKE IT STOP!". 

     

    - Do about 720 DEs. Yes, 720*320 ~= 250,000 karma that you need. 

     

    BUT WAIT, you want to gear yourself according to Precision/Power/Crit to maximize your specific Thief build? Then no, I don't care how much you like DEs, you have to farm gold or dungeons. Oh, what's that, you want to try a Condition damage build now with that Thief of yours? Sure, just grind for ANOTHER gear set again! The current endgame in GW2 is a bigger grind than raiding two times a week ever was. The concept that "you don't need to grind" is nullified by the fact that you DO become more powerful with gear. Then factor in alts, or...if you're brave...legendaries (which, for example, require 2,000,000 karma besides other things). It's a grim outlook indeed. But, ahhh, here's the catch: 

     

    You can take a level 1 character all the way to 80 and get full exotics for the low price of $200.00. That's right, you can skip all the game's leveling content, and get a max stat gear set for real money! What a deal! If that's not pay to win, I don't know what is. I really like GW2's leveling, but it's endgame feels to be in the stone ages more so than a next gen MMO.

     

     

    [mod edit]

    Did you just call someone a kid for making valid points? wow... 

    Also guild wars 2 has to be the most casual game I've ever played, It Is far from hardcore; have you played EvE? 

    [mod edit] GW2 got perfect system.. Lots of Fun.. Dungeons, etc.. pvp.WvW and yes Guild wars 2 is hardcore.. u dont even know it yet.. Gw2 is hardcore with its dungeons, and the legendary items u can make is a pain. and Eve is not hardcore its the worst and most boring game that exist... Play gw2 and have fun.. doing dungeon is also fun and that Nerf only made it better... so u wouldn't be able to farm same dungeon for more then the explorer mode allows.. Like a dungeon called Twillight Arbor allows u to run though 3 times cause it got 3 ways.. simple and easy to know...

     Try to do dungeons in gw2 u be surprised how hard it is. but i never hope they nerf them 

    You clearly have never played EVE or If you have, you never got past the first 20 minutes due to the lack of shiny effects; shame. Also, being boosted to 80 from the start and having a cash shop where you can insta buff yourself to the hilt Is considered hard core to you? Running around mashing your abilities with no real thought does not constitute as hardcore; I'd say WoW has a more hardcore vibe than GW2 due to It's vast raiding and that's saying something. As for the dungeons, they're OK but I hate the lack of strategy and feel the zerging get's a little old. 

     

    [mod edit]

     

     

  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Posts: 5,468Member Uncommon

    ANet never said there wasent a gear progression. Matter of fact they did say there is a gear progression. What they did say is this game does not have a gear treadmill. They also said that they removed the areas of the MMO game that is a wall to stop you from getting to the fun. 

    What does this mean? No gear treadmill: You have to earn your top end gear and once you have done it you never NEED to go back to getting new gear to have fun doing dungeons or WvW. sPvP gear has nothing to do with it. So yes you may spend 1-3 months earning top end gear but once you have done that, like GW1 you are done that unless you want X sword because it looks cool. 

    What does it mean? Removed areas of MMOing that get in the way of the fun stuff: Well its simple, no longer do you need to grind faction for 1-6 months to be able to access a vendor that has loot you need. No longer will you need to grind badges and tokens to be able to get top end gear every 6-12 months when new top end gear comes out.

    The traditional grind has been removed but they dont hand you a level 80 char and every mob in the game drops top end gear. What were you expecting? Play the game!!!!


    =-D Only on a forum can optimism be called bad and pessimism the good thing =-D Welcome to the internet and forums. 


  • EvolvedMonkyEvolvedMonky Tulsa, OKPosts: 549Member

    [mod edit]

    Cant believe there are people saying GW2 is pay 2 win and grindy. Seriously go out in the mmo world and play all the f2p games out there. 

    The whole point of a cash shop is pay for convience or cosmetics. The bad ones will implement items in there shops that require you to pay to be competitive, not competitive early but to be competitive at all.  Thats where that term pay 2 win came from.  There were certain games early on where you had to pay money if you even wanted to stand a chance in pvp or even be able to be picked for raids. There was no chance you could gain these items or bonuses thru the game. You had to buy them and in doing that gave paying players and edge.

    Its normal for f2p cash shops to sell items that help you lvl or whatever faster than a non paying player. It would be stupid buisness practice to only sell bunny ears and expect to make mad revenue.  

    image
  • Kaelano1Kaelano1 Peoria, ILPosts: 375Member
    Originally posted by chrisatron
    Originally posted by Kaelano1
    Originally posted by bone12
    Originally posted by chrisatron
    Originally posted by bone12
    Originally posted by AegisSaga

    The game tries to sell you the idea that you shoulnd't grind, that gear / level doesn't really matter and that the game starts at level 1, not at endgame. But it's not true, you see:

     

    - My damage almost tripled in WvW going from level 79 to 80 with exotics. Gear and level do make a huge difference in WvW. After experiencing it that way, I almost feel useless when entering with my low level alts. In the top tier of servers, most are 80 now. If you enter there as level 25, you'll get demolished.

     

    - You kill faster and easier with gear in the open world, even when downscaled. At level 70, I had average gear and when downscaled, sure enogh, mobs died faster than when I had the zone's level; however, when I got to 80 and geared myself, then went back to that downscaled zone, mobs died almost twice as fast. 

     

    - Dungeons become easier. I played the same dungeon both when I had average gear and then at 80 with exotics, there IS a difference. 

     

    - SPvP is truly the only aspect of the game where gear / level doesn't make you more powerful, for obvious reasons. 

     

    Now I'm actually thankful that there's some kind of carrot on a stick. I certainly enjoy progression, it's why I play RPGs and not FPS (although even FPS nowadays implement some form of progression). But even though there IS a reason to progress, the game tries to deny it implementing ridiculous mechanics. You can't farm a zone for too long, yet if you want to craft your gear by yourself you must do so. You can't grind dungeons for long, yet if you want the gear rewards you must do so. You can't grind DE's for long, yet if you want the karma gear you must do so. The game is bascially telling you: "Hey, you want to progress? Sure, just do this dungeon 80 times. But oh, wait, don't." Right now, if you hit 80 and want a max stat gear set, you must do either:

     

    - Make 40-60 gold and buy it. This is a huge gold grind, coupled with teleportation / repair costs.

     

    - Run a dungeon 80 times. Sure, dungeons are fun the first 4-5 times or so. But when you realize you need at least 8 runs for ONE piece of gear, the whole thing goes from "Hmm, this is fun." to "PLEASE MAKE IT STOP!". 

     

    - Do about 720 DEs. Yes, 720*320 ~= 250,000 karma that you need. 

     

    BUT WAIT, you want to gear yourself according to Precision/Power/Crit to maximize your specific Thief build? Then no, I don't care how much you like DEs, you have to farm gold or dungeons. Oh, what's that, you want to try a Condition damage build now with that Thief of yours? Sure, just grind for ANOTHER gear set again! The current endgame in GW2 is a bigger grind than raiding two times a week ever was. The concept that "you don't need to grind" is nullified by the fact that you DO become more powerful with gear. Then factor in alts, or...if you're brave...legendaries (which, for example, require 2,000,000 karma besides other things). It's a grim outlook indeed. But, ahhh, here's the catch: 

     

    You can take a level 1 character all the way to 80 and get full exotics for the low price of $200.00. That's right, you can skip all the game's leveling content, and get a max stat gear set for real money! What a deal! If that's not pay to win, I don't know what is. I really like GW2's leveling, but it's endgame feels to be in the stone ages more so than a next gen MMO.

     

     

    [mod edit]

    Did you just call someone a kid for making valid points? wow... 

    Also guild wars 2 has to be the most casual game I've ever played, It Is far from hardcore; have you played EvE? 

    [mod edit] GW2 got perfect system.. Lots of Fun.. Dungeons, etc.. pvp.WvW and yes Guild wars 2 is hardcore.. u dont even know it yet.. Gw2 is hardcore with its dungeons, and the legendary items u can make is a pain. and Eve is not hardcore its the worst and most boring game that exist... Play gw2 and have fun.. doing dungeon is also fun and that Nerf only made it better... so u wouldn't be able to farm same dungeon for more then the explorer mode allows.. Like a dungeon called Twillight Arbor allows u to run though 3 times cause it got 3 ways.. simple and easy to know...

     Try to do dungeons in gw2 u be surprised how hard it is. but i never hope they nerf them 

    You clearly have never played EVE or If you have, you never got past the first 20 minutes due to the lack of shiny effects; shame. Also, being boosted to 80 from the start and having a cash shop where you can insta buff yourself to the hilt Is considered hard core to you? Running around mashing your abilities with no real thought does not constitute as hardcore; I'd say WoW has a more hardcore vibe than GW2 due to It's vast raiding and that's saying something. As for the dungeons, they're OK but I hate the lack of strategy and feel the zerging get's a little old. 

     

    [mod edit]

     

     

    I hate the way you edited this, as it looks like you're replying to me. Yo Yo Yo Yo mmorpg.com raps, homies!

  • bcbullybcbully Westland, MIPosts: 8,281Member Uncommon
    To unpin or not to. This is the place GW2 stands.
  • sr7olsnipersr7olsniper Alhambra, CAPosts: 206Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Rokurgepta
    Sorry but Pay to Win implies you can get something with money that you can't get in game any other way. That you are BUYING an advantage that the others can't get unless they too spend money. Simply not true in GW2.

    Not really. Pay to win is anything that affects character power. If you can buy the best gear with real money regardless if this is in game or not, specially more so if the grind is retardedly long, then that is p2w

    At least with a sub game they know that people won't tolerate bullshit and leave. With anet we have no recourse but to buy our own lube so our assholes don't get too stretched out from getting bent over a table at Anets will. - Hrimnir

  • sr7olsnipersr7olsniper Alhambra, CAPosts: 206Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by EvolvedMonky

    Um this thread is just full of trolls and if there not trolls there mmo noobs.

    Cant believe there are people saying GW2 is pay 2 win and grindy. Seriously go out in the mmo world and play all the f2p games out there. 

    The whole point of a cash shop is pay for convience or cosmetics. The bad ones will implement items in there shops that require you to pay to be competitive, not competitive early but to be competitive at all.  Thats where that term pay 2 win came from.  There were certain games early on where you had to pay money if you even wanted to stand a chance in pvp or even be able to be picked for raids. There was no chance you could gain these items or bonuses thru the game. You had to buy them and in doing that gave paying players and edge.

    Its normal for f2p cash shops to sell items that help you lvl or whatever faster than a non paying player. It would be stupid buisness practice to only sell bunny ears and expect to make mad revenue.  

    I agree with you up to a certain point. Now a days anything that directly enhances player power at max lvl is considered pay to win. If you take the 250k karma needed the grins is 720 des. You can do that, or buy gems, turn them into gold and buy equal gear. That is the very definition of paytowin. You could also argue that the whole being able to buy currency both directly or indirectly is pay to win in a game like GW2 because the game is based around e market. You can buy siege weapons to give you an edge and that costs gold, you can get e best gear from crafting and that costs gold, I can go on. It is in an essence a design flaw to make everything a evil able with gold because you inevitably run into these issues, ven moreover if their is PVP involved. Te best way to go about is yiu can get the N-1 gear with money but you actually need to do content to get the top gear. The thing is though, there is no gear progression in GW2 so the difference would be minimal 

    At least with a sub game they know that people won't tolerate bullshit and leave. With anet we have no recourse but to buy our own lube so our assholes don't get too stretched out from getting bent over a table at Anets will. - Hrimnir

  • RhoklawRhoklaw Ft. Bliss, TXPosts: 3,493Member Uncommon

    Gear progression, gear treadmill, whatever you want to call it. GW2 does in fact have a very, VERY gear dependant PvP system. At least in terms of W v W. Levels may not play a huge roll in difference but when you have a level 80 in full exotics going up against anything but, expect to get your ass handed to you.

    So, that being said, if your 25, 40, 65 or even 79. Don't expect a fair fight by any means if your opponent is capped out on level 80 exotic gear.

    Today, all I did was get 1 or 2 shotted. Whether it was a 2h warrior, a thief or believe it or not, an AOE from an elementalist. Yes, Meteor Shower actually killed me in 2 hits. I guess when my MS only does about 700-1200 dmg a hit. Seeing someone elses doing 6000-8000 a hit is just plain stupid.

    I thought GW2's W v W would give me what I missed about DAoC's Frontier R v R. Instead, its more of an FPS one shot game instead of a drawn out crowd control game. I love GW2's concept for W v W but who wants to play a game where you get 1-2 shot on a regular basis. Whats the point of playing? Especially when repair costs are as absurd as they are.

    I don't know, maybe it's just me, but it seems more and more MMO's are giving into the FPS shooter genre instead of focusing on the RPG like the games of old. Are kids these days that desperate for their instant gratification that they can't sit and enjoy a battle if it takes them 10-15 minutes to win?

    image

  • TardcoreTardcore MinskPosts: 2,325Member
    Originally posted by The_Korrigan
    Originally posted by sookster54
    Those who rushed to 80 and skipped a good chunk of the world's content are the ones that need to shell out cash to get the things they need.

    And I kinda like that concept. The lazy pay real money to buy my materials on the auction house.

    Actually, it's brilliant - please keep on rushing ;-)

    I'm a little curious about the whole "rushing to 80" kerfuffle. Zylaxx, one of the more passonite fans of this game already has a level 80 and apperently has had one for awhile. I'd like to see his feelings on this subject as I seriously doubt a player that has been so looking forward to this game would have cut corners just to hit level cap.

    image

    "Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "

  • SteeJanzSteeJanz Gladstone, MOPosts: 332Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Tardcore
    Originally posted by The_Korrigan
    Originally posted by sookster54
    Those who rushed to 80 and skipped a good chunk of the world's content are the ones that need to shell out cash to get the things they need.

    And I kinda like that concept. The lazy pay real money to buy my materials on the auction house.

    Actually, it's brilliant - please keep on rushing ;-)

    I'm a little curious about the whole "rushing to 80" kerfuffle. Zylaxx, one of the more passonite fans of this game already has a level 80 and apperently has had one for awhile. I'd like to see his feelings on this subject as I seriously doubt a player that has been so looking forward to this game would have cut corners just to hit level cap.

    Or he just played alot more.  I'm a little curious to why you care.  GW2 seems to have more of a hold on those that don't care for it that much then it does for those that do.  Weird.

  • TardcoreTardcore MinskPosts: 2,325Member
    Originally posted by SteeJanz
    Originally posted by Tardcore
    Originally posted by The_Korrigan
    Originally posted by sookster54
    Those who rushed to 80 and skipped a good chunk of the world's content are the ones that need to shell out cash to get the things they need.

    And I kinda like that concept. The lazy pay real money to buy my materials on the auction house.

    Actually, it's brilliant - please keep on rushing ;-)

    I'm a little curious about the whole "rushing to 80" kerfuffle. Zylaxx, one of the more passonite fans of this game already has a level 80 and apperently has had one for awhile. I'd like to see his feelings on this subject as I seriously doubt a player that has been so looking forward to this game would have cut corners just to hit level cap.

    Or he just played alot more.  I'm a little curious to why you care.  GW2 seems to have more of a hold on those that don't care for it that much then it does for those that do.  Weird.

    Hate to tell you this sparky but I'm actually playing the game, as I've said numerous times on these forums. But I guess in your world you can only love something OR crtitique it, but not both.

    image

    "Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "

  • gurugeorgegurugeorge LondonPosts: 480Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by sr7olsniper
    Originally posted by Rokurgepta
    Sorry but Pay to Win implies you can get something with money that you can't get in game any other way. That you are BUYING an advantage that the others can't get unless they too spend money. Simply not true in GW2.

    Not really. Pay to win is anything that affects character power. If you can buy the best gear with real money regardless if this is in game or not, specially more so if the grind is retardedly long, then that is p2w

    FWIW I've never seen P2W defined like that.  It always means being able to buy an advantage with real money that a player can't achieve in-game.  It bites doubly hard in games where gear stats count for more than skill.

    GW2 simply doesn't answer to that definition.  All items that can be bought can be obtained by grind.  And gear counts for less than skill anyway.  9/10 a good player in Masterwork will beat a bad player in Exotic.

    It's no different than EVE's system - you can buy PLEX and sell in game to get isk, and you can buy stuff quickly that you might otherwise have had to grind for, but in no case can you buy anything that someone couldn't get by grinding.  In the arguments that raged when it looked like EVE was going to introduce P2W into their cash shop, the definition of P2W I gave above was the operative one.  Similar also is the difference in "gear" - e.g. you can buy expensive ships with slightly better stats, but they count for less than player skill and sp (which is based on an absolute time factor thet can't be circumvented anyway).

    Nobody objects all that strongly to time shortcuts; what people object to is other players being able to buy a massive advantage over others via the cash shop, that others can't hope to match even by in-game activity.

  • PurutzilPurutzil East Stroudsburg, PAPosts: 2,925Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by sr7olsniper
    Originally posted by Rokurgepta
    Sorry but Pay to Win implies you can get something with money that you can't get in game any other way. That you are BUYING an advantage that the others can't get unless they too spend money. Simply not true in GW2.

    Not really. Pay to win is anything that affects character power. If you can buy the best gear with real money regardless if this is in game or not, specially more so if the grind is retardedly long, then that is p2w

    Very true. Its P2W... but people have certain 'limits' of what people can stand. In many cases a small tiny exp boost isn't likely to be considered a big deal, though theres people who do consider it a big advantage. It depends really on the person and just how much of an effect it has on the player. 

    Guildwars 2 IS P2W, even if it had a much more minor effect like "5% exp boost" as the only benefit, it still could be considered to some extent that. Issue comes that when you can buy gems and turn them into gold, along with the other parts to it, you got something thats hard to argue that it doesn't have at least some pay 2 win aspects. Its really up to the user to determine if its within an acceptable amount to them. 

     

    Overall (on topic) I do agree they put out a lot of contradictions... mostly on the developer sides. They claim a lot but it still has many of the old practices in place. Its not a bad thing, mind you, but it does bother people when you call out your one thing but truthfully your something else.

  • BladestromBladestrom edinburghPosts: 4,946Member Uncommon
    P2W = pay to win. In some mmorgs gear = advantage therefore when you buy gear you have an advantage. In GW2 gear is not an advantage, because everyone has a full exotic set ( oh not now the game just released but in a few months everyone will). So you are not paying to win anything, it is not P2W.

    rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar

    Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D

  • AsboAsbo ManchesterPosts: 796Member Uncommon

    I pay to win everytime I buy a game so it's all the same no matter how you want to dress it up. I'm not sure what the big deal is, you either like a game to buy and play it or you don't. So all this BS about buying to win is all a load of Bollacks IMO. If you feel it's not the right thing to do then don't buy the damn game no one is making you have that model.

    The thing is, some folks have the money and a different mind set about how they want to play a game and what gives anyone else the right to tell them otherwise, not you or I end of. Games are made for people to have fun or do as they please, it may not be your cup of tea how they do that, but sorry pal that's how it will always be and complaining about it is a total waste or reading and writing time. Thankfully I have the time to respond but normally I would not bother.

    Bandit

    Asbo

  • TwoThreeFourTwoThreeFour Virginia, VAPosts: 2,131Member
    Originally posted by Bladestrom
    P2W = pay to win. In some mmorgs gear = advantage therefore when you buy gear you have an advantage. In GW2 gear is not an advantage, because everyone has a full exotic set ( oh not now the game just released but in a few months everyone will). So you are not paying to win anything, it is not P2W.

    Many F2P "P2W" games work similarely: as long as you've invested enough time you will be on par with avid item mall users, the question of relevance to decide if it is "P2W" is to check how much time is required to catch up.

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