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Lesbian Gay Bisexual Trans-sexual (LGBT) - why is this a bad thing for guild formation?
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I think the problem is/was how do you keep the öegit and get rid of the trolling ones. Especially as many games have rules agains harrasment it can be tricky if a guild stest them self up as a LGBT guild, but all they do is mock the legit LGBT community by only acting out the degrading stereotypes with the goal of bypassing the EULA and ToS.
It would be like having a guild called Cottonpickers south, an all black guild with a white GM who everybody must call mastha... So i can understand why there is some friction. But that being said most mature and sensible guild these days have no problem with the LGBT community and i have yet to be in a guild that made anyone feel unwelcome, no matter their sexuality, race och religious belife. But maybe i have just been lucky.
And it is a sensetive subject (that have been beaten to death) some people just don't like to have it showed in their face and others (for what ever reason make sense to them) feel that it is how things are supposed to be. This combined with the fact that i have seen both sides doing their best to get on the other sides nerves (yes that include members of the LGBT community who, belive it or not have trolls too) and it might just be best to advertise them self as a non-judgemental guild instead of segregating them self by being a LGBT-only guild.
This have been a good conversation
25+ and older guild - Check
Women only guild - Check
French speaking only guild - Check
Russian only guild - Check.
Christian only guild - Check
Ex-military members only guild - Check
See, that's the funny thing, all of the guilds I've listed exist in modern MMO's, so we do discrimate as to what we permit in terms of segregating ourselves based on like interests.
So it really comes down to what we segregate ourselves by, some criteria are acceptable, and some are not, requires the proper use of logic and reasoning to discern what is appropriate, and what is not.
And I suppose over time the criteria can change, what might be unacceptable today could be acceptable tomorrow.
Overall, I think sexual orientation/preference is one on the proscribed list, mostly because it opens the door to creating guilds based on other sexual preferences (the Golden Shower Clan) and that's just wrong.
Better to keep it out of gaming completely and make our lives a lot more simple.
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"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I think you are reading too much into this. Politics, religions and similar stuff just dont belong in games and as long as they are consequent there is no problem.
To ban someone because he or she is gay is seriously wrong and if a bunch of gay people who are friends play together that is no problem either. But just having guilds based on race, religion, sexual preferences or political view leads us fast to a very dark place.
There are great forums for that stuff instead and frankly are there better things to talk ingame then sex. I dont want to see Christian guilds, Obama guilds or "white" guilds either. That stuff is private stuff that doesnt belong in public games.
Was there a recent event that prompted this post?
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
This is why minorities (sexual or racial) are discriminated.
They make a big fuzz about themselves and their beliefs.
But then again, they are free to invite people who they wish.
Variety is the spice of life. People should be free to invite or exclude in social environments however they decide necesary, though I would hope we could all recognize that respecting anothers choice, regardless of individual judgement, gives us all something to share in common and brings us closer together.
"This is life! We suffer and slave and expire. That's it!" -Bernard Black (Dylan Moran)
You have that bit backwards. the reason we are loud is when people don't let us do what freedom lets all others do normally. not the other way around.
So, was there a recent event that prompted this post?
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
the only thing more annoying then the drama queens are the drama drag queens HAH
its not biased when its true!
I didn't see a reply to the question, what prompted this OP. I have yet to read how lgbt were discriminated against in the gaming community and i read that news everyday
hate to break it to you but there's another side of drag, it's the macho crowd and it exists in the straight male community too.
I think he meant in general and I agree, but that's a whole other discussion.
Can we let this poor horse rest in peace yet?
twitch.tv/boonmackle
I have no problem whatsoever with any sexual orientation, race, religion, gender.
What I do have a problem with is when someone starts imposing those beliefs or ideas on me.
I think that if someone wants to be treated equally he should not single himself out on purpose. To me, that seems just like wanting attention and acknowledgement for his "being different."
This is an issue that is currently very active in my country, about gay pride parade and so on. I have no problem with homosexuals, absolutely none - but I do have a problem with organizing a parade.
It is just a wrong strategy. If you want to show that you are "all equal" and "normal" you don't make a parade about it. That's just asking for attention in a very clumsy manner concerning a very serious issue.
Same about any kind of "special treatment" for anyone, including game guilds.
How do you expect people to stop being intolerant, if you, a hypothetical part of a group that is considered a minority, purposely exclude and single yourself out in a "this kind of people ONLY" guild?
Someone mentioned that the majoritiy is being bullied by loud minorities, people being fed up with political correctness...I totally agree. In general, yes, that's a very serious problem and a rather strange paradox.
Some groups that feel they have lesser rights group up into guilds (or any real life equivalent, heh) and at the same time ask for equal treatment...while on the other hand refusing to give it to others and respect other opinions that might differ.
Any opinion or attitude that is not in line with this "tolerant" and "politically correct" behaviour is instantly branded as "hate speech, bigotry, intolerance, homophobia" whatever.
Silly world we live in.
wow has a ESRB rating of 12+ or sth, right?
so obviously sex has nothing to do in a game suited for that age. and if you can't understand that, it doesnt matter which sex you prefer, you do something wrong.
"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"
When I see you folks marching in the streets of Tehran Iran, I might pay alittle more attention. Acorrding to there leader ship there are no Sodimites in Iran.
MAGA
I think the opposition is that the mentality is "It's not okay for you to exclude us from your heterosexual guilds, but it is okay for us to exclude you from our LGBT guilds". Why is it wrong for one group to discriminate but not another group? Excluding someone just because their sexual orientation is wrong. Do you really not understand the cognitive dissonance of what you're asking?
People play games to feel comfortable. Normally gays have to keep a decent amount to themselves in the general public and when they play a game they want to be with a group they can relax with and not worry about blocking certain parts of their interest be cause the rest of the people are not like minded. Given the number of half naked woman running around sexual orientation actually plays a large part in fantasy gaming so yes it is an issue. You can pretend its not an issue but it will be for some high minded view of equality but it will be.
The issue with straight guilds is the fact most guilds on the outset are straight guilds. The majority segmenting themselve from minority aspects of society normally blocks minorities from large parts of society.
This being said, please explain how the practice of excluding people from a group based on their sexual orientation is okay? I've been in many guilds, have had many gay friends in those guilds and I never saw anyone treat them as anything but equal. If your guildmates are excluding you from something because of your sexual orientation, it's really not that hard to find another guild that will accept you for who you are. The solution is not to turn around and imitate the bigots, the solution is to be a better person and lead by example.
What has sexual orientation to do with video games?
If you can have a gay only guild, does that mean you can have a straight only guild as well? Or white's only? Or men only?
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Yes, a LGBT guild is fine... as is any other guild targetting a specific group of people. I would say that excluding people from it if they are not of said group is wrong though.
The issue with Blizzard six years ago was that they were trying to protect LGBTs and not recieve extra CS tickets doing it.
There most certainly are guilds that fit all those descriptions. On WoW there was an african-american only guild, on other games I have played there were hispanic only guilds, women only guilds and many many many guilds have age requirements for its members.
While yes, it technically is reverse discrimination, these groups are all groups that are often the recipients of discrimination and like to relax in groups of people in the same situation. Until we reach a point where there is true equality in the world, these groups will continue to exist to support each other.
If you dont fit into any of these groups you should be thankful that you dont have to put up with the crap that they do on a day to day basis.
Also most of these GLBT groups are 'GLBT friendly'. Meaning they do not discriminate against heterosexual people, but rather they require than any heterosexuals that join are courteous and respectful to those within the GLBT community.