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Lesbian Gay Bisexual Trans-sexual (LGBT) - why is this a bad thing for guild formation?

124

Comments

  • dariuszpdariuszp PrzeworskPosts: 182Member
    Originally posted by Karteli

    We're all different, this much is clear.  But sometimes it's a hinderance, especially when it comes to forming a guild.

    LGBT people want to form a guild exclusive to them, so what?  Why are so many opposed?  It doesn't affect them. 

    Wouldn't it help the community to gather like minded people together?

    Just as a side note:

    Wow at one time restricted and banned a player for advertising a LGBT guild, several years ago.  The uprise was immense, and Blizzard was faced with a cival lawsuit.  Blizzard appologized and "allowed" LGBT friendly guilds. http://kotaku.com/159536/blizzards-reaction-to-gay-guilds-an-unfortunate-mistake

    I see this like this. I'm hetero. I don't advert my guild as hetero guild. I don't check if all my guildmates are hetero. I really don't care.

    LGBT create homo guild. They advert it as homo guild and they probably require guildmates to be homo. This is something like heterophobia. LGBT people screem everywhere they can "look, I'm gay". If you say "i don't give a f***" or "oh just shut up" then in their eyes you are homophobic or something.

    All parties (homophobes and heterophobes) should just keep all that politycs out of gaming world. It's enough they running around throwing accusations and whine about everything in real world. I would like to say to all those people - Just go f*** yourself plesae. And stay away.  Join a guild and stop with evangelization whoever you are. We don't care who you will f*** after you go to bed.

  • morbuskabismorbuskabis RodonPosts: 290Member

    @OP

    So a only bondage guild or a guild for pedophile only, would you think that is somthing a game needs?

    I think sexual preference should not be a criteria for a guild membership. there are other platform out side of a MMORPG where you can go find like-minded people.

    image -Massive-Industries- Heavy Duty

  • kaiser3282kaiser3282 Phoenix, AZPosts: 2,660Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by SaintPhilip
    Originally posted by Karteli

    We're all different, this much is clear.  But sometimes it's a hinderance, especially when it comes to forming a guild.

     

    LGBT people want to form a guild exclusive to them, so what?  Why are so many opposed?  It doesn't affect them.

     

    Wouldn't it help the community to gather like minded people together?

    I can understand it-

    Sexual Orientation and race and religion should not even be an issue with a Guild in any way shap[e or form.

    Look, I cannot make a "Straights Only Guild" or a "Black Only Guild" and advertise it as such (obviously you can have anyone in your guild who you wish and could still make a Guild like such)- So whats good for the goose.

    Its like Orwell said in Animal farm. "All Animals are equal but some Animals are MORE equal than others..." This is becopming the case. 

    +1

    The part in red has always amused me, not just int he guild situation, but life in general. Always loved the whole "we want to be equal, but only we can have special isolated groups. if you do it youre racist, sexist, prejudiced, etc".

    Its become acceptable to do things like:

    Have a black or latino only organization and be praised for it. But if you dare make a whites only organization youre a racist bigot.

    Have women only organizations. Create a mens only organization and youre a sexist pig trying to supress women.

    Have entire housing communities for seniors (55+) all ove rthe place, and its perfectly fine. Yet if we created housing communities that did not allow people over a certain age, there would be a shitstorm. Funny because our own laws say you cant discriminate based on age... yet it happens every day. But its only OK if its 1 way and not the other.

    Create gay/lesbian organizations and its fine. Your just fighting for your beliefs. But create a hetero only organization and youre offending all gay and lesbians because of your beliefs. Gay pride parades? Sure go ahead. But wheres my straight pride parades that likely would be picketed by some overly sensitive people who took it as an offense to their own sexual preference?

    This is how ass backwards and dysfunctional our society has become.

    (I understand these cases dont apply to every individual. For example every single gay person may not be offended by hetero groups. Im referring more to the general public outcry against such things whent hey get into the media and all that.)

  • itsbigmikeitsbigmike Youngsville, LAPosts: 86Member

    Segregate yourselves, that'll show the system! Equality for all, let us be equally separate!

    You're just as special and unique as everyone else

    twitch.tv/boonmackle

  • avalon1000avalon1000 Kihei, HIPosts: 754Member
    I think people are getting fed up with the political correctness and there will be a backlash. Therre are storms on the horizon. I was thinking today about how absurd our society has become. The minority make the rules for the majority. We cave in to the screaming voices. But you can only push people so far.
  • mikeoffymikeoffy sheboygan, WIPosts: 25Member Uncommon
    Well its clear now to many that the OP is trying hard to come out of the closet. Good for you just never thought anyone would use mmos to do it. Weird.
  • tawesstawess LkpgPosts: 2,535Member Uncommon

    I think the problem is/was how do you keep the öegit and get rid of the trolling ones. Especially as many games have rules agains harrasment it can be tricky if a guild stest them self up as a LGBT guild, but all they do is mock the legit LGBT community by only acting out the degrading stereotypes with the goal of bypassing the EULA and ToS.

     

    It would be like having a guild called Cottonpickers south, an all black guild with a white GM who everybody must call mastha... So i can understand why there is some friction. But that being said most mature and sensible guild these days have no problem with the LGBT community and i have yet to be in a guild that made anyone feel unwelcome, no matter their sexuality, race och religious belife. But maybe i have just been lucky.

     

    And it is a sensetive subject (that have been beaten to death) some people just don't like to have it showed in their face and others (for what ever reason make sense to them) feel that it is how things are supposed to be. This combined with the fact that i have seen both sides doing their best to get on the other sides nerves (yes that include  members of the LGBT community who, belive it or not have trolls too) and it might just be best to advertise them self as a non-judgemental guild instead of segregating them self by being a LGBT-only guild.

  • KyleranKyleran Tampa, FLPosts: 19,998Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Seelinnikoi

    LGBT Guild ? - Check

    White only Guild ? - Check

    Black only Guild ? - Check

    Asian only Guild ? - Check

     

    See the pattern here?

    See the problem here?

    25+ and older guild - Check

    Women only guild - Check

    French speaking only guild - Check

    Russian only guild - Check.

    Christian only guild - Check

    Ex-military members only guild - Check

    See, that's the funny thing, all of the guilds I've listed exist in modern MMO's, so we do discrimate as to what we permit in terms of segregating ourselves based on like interests. 

    So it really comes down to what we segregate ourselves by, some criteria are acceptable, and some are not, requires the proper use of logic and reasoning to discern what is appropriate, and what is not.

    And I suppose over time the criteria can change, what might be unacceptable today could be acceptable tomorrow.

    Overall, I think sexual orientation/preference is one on the proscribed list, mostly because it opens the door to creating guilds based on other sexual preferences (the Golden Shower Clan) and that's just wrong.

    Better to keep it out of gaming completely and make our lives a lot more simple.

     

     

    In my day MMORPG's were so hard we fought our way through dungeons in the snow, uphill both ways.
    "I don't have one life, I have many lives" - Grunty
    Still currently "subscribed" to EVE, and only EVE!!!
    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  • Loke666Loke666 MalmöPosts: 18,000Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by avalon1000
    I think people are getting fed up with the political correctness and there will be a backlash. Therre are storms on the horizon. I was thinking today about how absurd our society has become. The minority make the rules for the majority. We cave in to the screaming voices. But you can only push people so far.

    I think you are reading too much into this. Politics, religions and similar stuff just dont belong in games and as long as they are consequent there is no problem.

    To ban someone because he or she is gay is seriously wrong and if a bunch of gay people who are friends play together that is no problem either. But just having guilds based on race, religion, sexual preferences or political view leads us fast to a very dark place.

    There are great forums for that stuff instead and frankly are there better things to talk ingame then sex.  I dont want to see Christian guilds, Obama guilds or "white" guilds either. That stuff is private stuff that doesnt belong in public games.

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,668Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Karteli

    We're all different, this much is clear.  But sometimes it's a hinderance, especially when it comes to forming a guild.

    LGBT people want to form a guild exclusive to them, so what?  Why are so many opposed?  It doesn't affect them.

    Wouldn't it help the community to gather like minded people together?

    Just as a side note:

    Wow at one time restricted and banned a player for advertising a LGBT guild, several years ago.  The uprise was immense, and Blizzard was faced with a cival lawsuit.  Blizzard appologized and "allowed" LGBT friendly guilds. http://kotaku.com/159536/blizzards-reaction-to-gay-guilds-an-unfortunate-mistake

    Was there a recent event that prompted this post?

     

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • GoldenArrowGoldenArrow TurkuPosts: 1,187Member Uncommon

    This is why minorities (sexual or racial) are discriminated.

    They make a big fuzz about themselves and their beliefs.

     

    But then again, they are free to invite people who they wish.

  • LawlmonsterLawlmonster Dallas, TXPosts: 954Member Uncommon

    Variety is the spice of life. People should be free to invite or exclude in social environments however they decide necesary, though I would hope we could all recognize that respecting anothers choice, regardless of individual judgement, gives us all something to share in common and brings us closer together.

     

    <3

    "This is life! We suffer and slave and expire. That's it!" -Bernard Black (Dylan Moran)

  • itgrowlsitgrowls newport news, VAPosts: 2,951Member
    Originally posted by GoldenArrow

    This is why minorities (sexual or racial) are discriminated.

    They make a big fuzz about themselves and their beliefs.

     

    But then again, they are free to invite people who they wish.

    You have that bit backwards. the reason we are loud is when people don't let us do what freedom lets all others do normally. not the other way around.

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,668Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by itgrowls
    Originally posted by GoldenArrow

    This is why minorities (sexual or racial) are discriminated.

    They make a big fuzz about themselves and their beliefs.

     

    But then again, they are free to invite people who they wish.

    You have that bit backwards. the reason we are loud is when people don't let us do what freedom lets all others do normally. not the other way around.

    So, was there a recent event that prompted this post?

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • neorandomneorandom bev hills, CAPosts: 1,681Member
    Originally posted by Karteli

    We're all different, this much is clear.  But sometimes it's a hinderance, especially when it comes to forming a guild.

     

    LGBT people want to form a guild exclusive to them, so what?  Why are so many opposed?  It doesn't affect them.

     

    Wouldn't it help the community to gather like minded people together?

     

    Just as a side note:

    Wow at one time restricted and banned a player for advertising a LGBT guild, several years ago.  The uprise was immense, and Blizzard was faced with a cival lawsuit.  Blizzard appologized and "allowed" LGBT friendly guilds. http://kotaku.com/159536/blizzards-reaction-to-gay-guilds-an-unfortunate-mistake

    the only thing more annoying then the drama queens are the drama drag queens  HAH

     

    its not biased when its true!

  • itgrowlsitgrowls newport news, VAPosts: 2,951Member

    I didn't see a reply to the question, what prompted this OP. I have yet to read how lgbt were discriminated against in the gaming community and i read that news everyday

     

  • itgrowlsitgrowls newport news, VAPosts: 2,951Member
    Originally posted by neorandom
    Originally posted by Karteli

    We're all different, this much is clear.  But sometimes it's a hinderance, especially when it comes to forming a guild.

     

    LGBT people want to form a guild exclusive to them, so what?  Why are so many opposed?  It doesn't affect them.

     

    Wouldn't it help the community to gather like minded people together?

     

    Just as a side note:

    Wow at one time restricted and banned a player for advertising a LGBT guild, several years ago.  The uprise was immense, and Blizzard was faced with a cival lawsuit.  Blizzard appologized and "allowed" LGBT friendly guilds. http://kotaku.com/159536/blizzards-reaction-to-gay-guilds-an-unfortunate-mistake

    the only thing more annoying then the drama queens are the drama drag queens  HAH

     

    its not biased when its true!

    hate to break it to you but there's another side of drag, it's the macho crowd and it exists in the straight male community too. :)

  • ConnmacartConnmacart OsloPosts: 681Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Loke666
    Originally posted by avalon1000
    I think people are getting fed up with the political correctness and there will be a backlash. Therre are storms on the horizon. I was thinking today about how absurd our society has become. The minority make the rules for the majority. We cave in to the screaming voices. But you can only push people so far.

    I think you are reading too much into this. Politics, religions and similar stuff just dont belong in games and as long as they are consequent there is no problem.

    To ban someone because he or she is gay is seriously wrong and if a bunch of gay people who are friends play together that is no problem either. But just having guilds based on race, religion, sexual preferences or political view leads us fast to a very dark place.

    There are great forums for that stuff instead and frankly are there better things to talk ingame then sex.  I dont want to see Christian guilds, Obama guilds or "white" guilds either. That stuff is private stuff that doesnt belong in public games.

    I think he meant in general and I agree, but that's a whole other discussion.

  • itsbigmikeitsbigmike Youngsville, LAPosts: 86Member

    Can we let this poor horse rest in peace yet?

     

    twitch.tv/boonmackle

  • Hell_HammerHell_Hammer BelgradePosts: 75Member

    I have no problem whatsoever with any sexual orientation, race, religion, gender. 

     

    What I do have a problem with is when someone starts imposing those beliefs or ideas on me. 

    I think that if someone wants to be treated equally he should not single himself out on purpose. To me, that seems just like wanting attention and acknowledgement for his "being different." 

    This is an issue that is currently very active in my country, about gay pride parade and so on. I have no problem with homosexuals, absolutely none - but I do have a problem with organizing a parade. 

    It is just a wrong strategy. If you want to show that you are "all equal" and "normal" you don't make a parade about it. That's just asking for attention in a very clumsy manner concerning a very serious issue. 

     

    Same about any kind of "special treatment" for anyone, including game guilds.

    How do you expect people to stop being intolerant, if you, a hypothetical part of a group that is considered a minority, purposely exclude and single yourself out in a "this kind of people ONLY" guild?

     

    Someone mentioned that the majoritiy is being bullied by loud minorities, people being fed up with political correctness...I totally agree. In general, yes, that's a very serious problem and a rather strange paradox.

     

    Some groups that feel they have lesser rights group up into guilds (or any real life equivalent, heh) and at the same time ask for equal treatment...while on the other hand refusing to give it to others and respect other opinions that might differ.

    Any opinion or attitude that is not in line with this "tolerant" and "politically correct" behaviour is instantly branded as "hate speech, bigotry, intolerance, homophobia" whatever.

     

    Silly world we live in.

  • ThaneThane berlinPosts: 2,232Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Karteli

    We're all different, this much is clear.  But sometimes it's a hinderance, especially when it comes to forming a guild.

     

    LGBT people want to form a guild exclusive to them, so what?  Why are so many opposed?  It doesn't affect them.

     

    Wouldn't it help the community to gather like minded people together?

     

    Just as a side note:

    Wow at one time restricted and banned a player for advertising a LGBT guild, several years ago.  The uprise was immense, and Blizzard was faced with a cival lawsuit.  Blizzard appologized and "allowed" LGBT friendly guilds. http://kotaku.com/159536/blizzards-reaction-to-gay-guilds-an-unfortunate-mistake

    wow has a ESRB rating of 12+ or sth, right?

    so obviously sex has nothing to do in a game suited for that age. and if you can't understand that, it doesnt matter which sex you prefer, you do something wrong.

    "I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"

  • ElsaboltsElsabolts Greencastle, INPosts: 2,594Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Karteli

    We're all different, this much is clear.  But sometimes it's a hinderance, especially when it comes to forming a guild.

     

    LGBT people want to form a guild exclusive to them, so what?  Why are so many opposed?  It doesn't affect them.

     

    Wouldn't it help the community to gather like minded people together?

     

    Just as a side note:

    Wow at one time restricted and banned a player for advertising a LGBT guild, several years ago.  The uprise was immense, and Blizzard was faced with a cival lawsuit.  Blizzard appologized and "allowed" LGBT friendly guilds. http://kotaku.com/159536/blizzards-reaction-to-gay-guilds-an-unfortunate-mistake

    When I see you folks marching in the streets of Tehran Iran, I might pay alittle more attention. Acorrding to there leader ship there are no Sodimites in Iran.

    image

  • MortisRexMortisRex Columbia, TNPosts: 348Member Common
    Originally posted by Karteli

    We're all different, this much is clear.  But sometimes it's a hinderance, especially when it comes to forming a guild.

     

    LGBT people want to form a guild exclusive to them, so what?  Why are so many opposed?  It doesn't affect them.

     

    Wouldn't it help the community to gather like minded people together?

     

    Just as a side note:

    Wow at one time restricted and banned a player for advertising a LGBT guild, several years ago.  The uprise was immense, and Blizzard was faced with a cival lawsuit.  Blizzard appologized and "allowed" LGBT friendly guilds. http://kotaku.com/159536/blizzards-reaction-to-gay-guilds-an-unfortunate-mistake

    I think the opposition is that the mentality is "It's not okay for you to exclude us from your heterosexual guilds, but it is okay for us to exclude you from our LGBT guilds". Why is it wrong for one group to discriminate but not another group? Excluding someone just because their sexual orientation is wrong. Do you really not understand the cognitive dissonance of what you're asking?

  • gothagotha weymouth, MAPosts: 1,040Member
    Originally posted by SaintPhilip
    Originally posted by Karteli

    We're all different, this much is clear.  But sometimes it's a hinderance, especially when it comes to forming a guild.

     

    LGBT people want to form a guild exclusive to them, so what?  Why are so many opposed?  It doesn't affect them.

     

    Wouldn't it help the community to gather like minded people together?

    I can understand it-

    Sexual Orientation and race and religion should not even be an issue with a Guild in any way shap[e or form.

    Look, I cannot make a "Straights Only Guild" or a "Black Only Guild" and advertise it as such (obviously you can have anyone in your guild who you wish and could still make a Guild like such)- So whats good for the goose.

    Its like Orwell said in Animal farm. "All Animals are equal but some Animals are MORE equal than others..." This is becopming the case. 

    People play games to feel comfortable.  Normally gays have to keep a decent amount to themselves in the general public and when they play a game they want to be with a group they can relax with and not worry about blocking certain parts of their interest be cause the rest of the people are not like minded.  Given the number of half naked woman running around sexual orientation actually plays a large part in fantasy gaming so yes it is an issue.  You can pretend its not an issue but it will be for some high minded view of equality but it will be.

    The issue with straight guilds is the fact most guilds on the outset are straight guilds.  The majority segmenting themselve from minority aspects of society normally blocks minorities from large parts of society.

  • MortisRexMortisRex Columbia, TNPosts: 348Member Common
    Originally posted by gotha
    Originally posted by SaintPhilip
    Originally posted by Karteli

    We're all different, this much is clear.  But sometimes it's a hinderance, especially when it comes to forming a guild.

     

    LGBT people want to form a guild exclusive to them, so what?  Why are so many opposed?  It doesn't affect them.

     

    Wouldn't it help the community to gather like minded people together?

    I can understand it-

    Sexual Orientation and race and religion should not even be an issue with a Guild in any way shap[e or form.

    Look, I cannot make a "Straights Only Guild" or a "Black Only Guild" and advertise it as such (obviously you can have anyone in your guild who you wish and could still make a Guild like such)- So whats good for the goose.

    Its like Orwell said in Animal farm. "All Animals are equal but some Animals are MORE equal than others..." This is becopming the case. 

    People play games to feel comfortable.  Normally gays have to keep a decent amount to themselves in the general public and when they play a game they want to be with a group they can relax with and not worry about blocking certain parts of their interest be cause the rest of the people are not like minded.  Given the number of half naked woman running around sexual orientation actually plays a large part in fantasy gaming so yes it is an issue.  You can pretend its not an issue but it will be for some high minded view of equality but it will be.

    The issue with straight guilds is the fact most guilds on the outset are straight guilds.  The majority segmenting themselve from minority aspects of society normally blocks minorities from large parts of society.

    This being said, please explain how the practice of excluding people from a group based on their sexual orientation is okay? I've been in many guilds, have had many gay friends in those guilds and I never saw anyone treat them as anything but equal. If your guildmates are excluding you from something because of your sexual orientation, it's really not that hard to find another guild that will accept you for who you are. The solution is not to turn around and imitate the bigots, the solution is to be a better person and lead by example.

This discussion has been closed.