There's a sign on the official forums and the biggest fan forum too... some people I know for years (since release in 2007), who have always been die hard fanatic defenders of Turbine (what people here call "fanbois"), are turning their back to Turbine and have stopped defending them. When that happens, you know the game is doing really bad. I was co-running LOTRO Vault at release and was a big fan of the game myself, but LOTRO started to "die" slowly just after Moria and has never gone back to the design quality and community from Shadows of Angmar. The dictator style moderation only shows the insecurity of Turbine about that situation.
"Censorship reflects society's lack of confidence in itself. It is a hallmark of an authoritarian regime. ~Potter Stewart"
Respect, walk, what did you say? Respect, walk Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me? - PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
How can anyone be surprised by Turbine's (powered by our fans™ ) behaviour after its fiasco around Asheron's Call 2 (selling paid boxed expansion and claming the game is in healthy state a month before they announced to shut down all servers with no compensation whatsoever)?
Oh yeah, I remember that. They had the expansion, released it, then shut the game down. People had bought and paid for it, just a month before it was shut down. That incident totally slipped my mind. Maybe that is why I refuse to play any game by Turbine ever again. Same goes for SOE. Or Funcom. At the rate these game companies are getting on my ban list, I'll be playing "Go" and "Chess" board games primarily here in the future.
Yes, you're right. Now because of this thread, Turbine goes on my list. That makes #4 along with (1) EA, (2) Funcom, and (3) ----I hate to do this but I have no choice if D3 actually turns out to be designed around the RMAH after the next patches -- Activision-Blizzard.
As far as SOE, I just don't like any of their games, so I haven't had a chance to be burned by them. But I will be circumspect based on what I've read about them.
Fortunately, there are lots of other games out there to choose from by different developers!!!
i think they had a strong "fan" base during the SoA days... enough so that i would have payed a little more a month to keep the same quality. i would have payed 20 dollars a month to support them if they were honest but now they are nothing more than a scam. isengard has been the most dissapointing xpac ever for me personally. every aspect of their game is a money pit for them.
At this rate I'm better of making a white list instead..
The are owned by Warner Brothers actually. Just like EA owns Bioware... The greed , cash grab mentality and P2W have gradually become worse since WB took over.
To the OP cut your losses and move to another game. ive played Lotro since SoA and i can tell you the quality of their product is a mere shadow of its former self. Their new "hybrid" (lol) ftp is a scam and everyone knows it. The isengard xpac is still broken in every aspect. PvP is pay to win. the dragon raid is still broken after multiple attepts to fix it. ( how hard is it to fix a 2 phase fight with 3 mechanics) and dont even get me started with the T2 tower raid. everything started going downhill with MoM and i can only imagine RoR state will be a disgrace. Turbine is adding a new engine for mounted combat when they can even get the current engine to run smoothly. What a joke. Great game idea run by a horrible company.
PS real actors for rohan cut scenes? how much did that cost? put that money into your dev team
The current engine has serious problems (as well as hardware problems). I had to turn off game audio in order to quest in parts of RoI. Lag in the LL area is horrible. I fondly remember SoA days and hope they can return to at least close to those days. As it is I can barely log in these days and the game is just dead (even on the big E).
Wow... I can't believe there are so many people defending this kind of behavior.
mmorpg.com ignores Turbines antics vecause they are and important advertiser. I have no idea why so many Turbine supporters stil ldefend them. It must be because they'd play any MMO that was set in Middle Earth.
So let me get this straight someone is all pissy they didn't get their money back, comes on a site that all people do is complain about others games and everyone is supposed to run away from the game screaming how bad it is? RoR is including instances maybe at a later date but big deal. Why do I still support Turbine well because after 5 yrs I still enjoy the game I still have a great group of people in my Kin that also enjoy the game. Next time read the fine print that says no refunds before you purchase anything.
So when a new game comes out all we hear on this site is how horrible it is and how its not as good as game "X" because it didn't include a certain aspect whether it be the sun not coming up to no reason to explore. Well i made a little list why I still play LOTRO and why I support paying to play LOTRO because it has all these little aspect everyone cries the new games don't.
Day Cycles with snow and Rain
very good instance mechanics with Tier system
Still good graphics (ok char models are so so)
Exploration, kill, emote, just any deed you can think of,
Player housing that you can put in trophies from your exploration or instance achievements
Cosmetic clothing with colored dyes
Player music (what other game would throw something like Weatherstock IV Look it up)
I bet with ROR which will have instances included (big deal added at a later date) even though people spew ignorant garbage saying it won't but that will push the total number to around 30 instances in game.
So let me get this straight someone is all pissy they didn't get their money back, comes on a site that all people do is complain about others games and everyone is supposed to run away from the game screaming how bad it is? RoR is including instances maybe at a later date but big deal. Why do I still support Turbine well because after 5 yrs I still enjoy the game I still have a great group of people in my Kin that also enjoy the game. Next time read the fine print that says no refunds before you purchase anything.
So when a new game comes out all we hear on this site is how horrible it is and how its not as good as game "X" because it didn't include a certain aspect whether it be the sun not coming up to no reason to explore. Well i made a little list why I still play LOTRO and why I support paying to play LOTRO because it has all these little aspect everyone cries the new games don't.
Day Cycles with snow and Rain
very good instance mechanics with Tier system
Still good graphics (ok char models are so so)
Exploration, kill, emote, just any deed you can think of,
Player housing that you can put in trophies from your exploration or instance achievements
Cosmetic clothing with colored dyes
Player music (what other game would throw something like Weatherstock IV Look it up)
I bet with ROR which will have instances included (big deal added at a later date) even though people spew ignorant garbage saying it won't but that will push the total number to around 30 instances in game.
One of the best communities in any game.
A great story that is continuous
Multiple ways to play each class
Clearly you have not read the posts on this thread you just took the OP post and jumped to conclusion. All i can say to this one sided post is that you're the only one with a positive comment about this game. You still enjoy this game? cool, well most of the loyal customers didnt because of what happened to them try to respect their opinions, not to mention they gave well thought out reasons why they decided to leave.
Everyone knows turbine screwed people with their false advertising, even the fanboys went wild. Troll better
Hullo, all. OP of screenshot here. Felt like adding some closure to the situation.
I have indeed cut my losses and have not logged in since this ended. Turbine failed to respond to my BBB complaint, and the BBB, per usual, sided with Turbine in the end, stating that 'Turbine made sufficient effort to resolve the issue'. Yeah. Right.
I've lost the enthusiasm to pursue this further. I could have done a lot with it, but with college and life, it's just... Not worth it.
I've watched the forums, and after the apparel dummies, I'm glad I haven't logged back in.
To anyone who can enjoy the game, I envy you. I've been a Tolkien fan ever since I could read, and I wish I could go back to LotRO.
Hullo, all. OP of screenshot here. Felt like adding some closure to the situation.
I have indeed cut my losses and have not logged in since this ended. Turbine failed to respond to my BBB complaint, and the BBB, per usual, sided with Turbine in the end, stating that 'Turbine made sufficient effort to resolve the issue'. Yeah. Right.
I've lost the enthusiasm to pursue this further. I could have done a lot with it, but with college and life, it's just... Not worth it.
I've watched the forums, and after the apparel dummies, I'm glad I haven't logged back in.
To anyone who can enjoy the game, I envy you. I've been a Tolkien fan ever since I could read, and I wish I could go back to LotRO.
But, this is the end of the road. /salute
If you're not planning on playing anymore, you could try a chargeback. Your account will probably get banned for it though.
"Dogs are the leaders of the planet. If you see two life forms, one of them's making a poop, the other one's carrying it for him, who would you assume is in charge."
"The idea behind the tuxedo is the woman's point of view that men are all the same; so we might as well dress them that way. That's why a wedding is like the joining together of a beautiful, glowing bride and some guy" -Seinfeld
I agree. WoW's fading success (It's a decade-old-game for Christ's sake!) coupled with the the belly flop of titles like TOR have sent the wrong message to the industry. The hard truth isn't that we're tired of paying for MMORPGs, it's that we're tired of paying for bad MMORPGs. Switching to F2P doesn't suddenly make a bad or ho-hum game good. And, not only that, but LOTRO's downturn has proven that even a decent game that goes F2P is ultimately screwed because of it.
I won't play F2P games. I won't become invested in something that the developers couldn't care less about. It's time for the people designing these things to stop running out of the gates with stars in their eyes, promising to be 'the next WoW,' and instead design like EVE. IE, build your game satisfy a niche audience, design with a low overhead, and maintain a reasonable client base over time. You don't crash and burn nearly as hard if you're not always shooting for the moon.
It just goes to show that a company doesn't even need to be bought up by EA to turn completely evil! lol.
What a shambles!
This whole debacle around Riders of Rohan is getting better and better.
It's really sad, but Turbine really is killing this game! There are hardly any people left in my once active guild. People have just gotten totally fed up with Turbine and left the game.
Ever since the F2P Freemium conversion, this game has gone straight downhill from a wonderful enjoyable game to a cheap horrible cash grab grindfest!
Well had it not turned F2P it woudl have been a very dead and canceld game by now.
Ehh that is completely false! The game was still doing well with a healthy population!
Due to the success of the Freemium conversion with DDO, Turbine was blinded by $$$$ and decided the convert LOTRO too to increase revenue. Also the bought up by Warner Bros might have had some influence in this too.
Turbine wants all their current games (DDO and LOTRO) and future games (Harry Potter Online?) to be based on their Freemium business model.
The guy who did the conversion was Craig Alexander. Also the one behind the conversion of DDO just before that. He happens to be my best friend's wife's uncle. I've talked to him about it many times and I've got to go with him since he's the inside guy and a friend of the family. You're wrong about the state of the game prior to F2P. It was dead and dying and they were looking for another option rather than pulling the plug. I can't tell you the exact number because I don't remember but long story short they have more subbing players now that it's F2P with an optional sub than they ever had when the sub was mandatory.
I agree. WoW's fading success (It's a decade-old-game for Christ's sake!) coupled with the the belly flop of titles like TOR have sent the wrong message to the industry. The hard truth isn't that we're tired of paying for MMORPGs, it's that we're tired of paying for bad MMORPGs. Switching to F2P doesn't suddenly make a bad or ho-hum game good. And, not only that, but LOTRO's downturn has proven that even a decent game that goes F2P is ultimately screwed because of it.
I won't play F2P games. I won't become invested in something that the developers couldn't care less about. It's time for the people designing these things to stop running out of the gates with stars in their eyes, promising to be 'the next WoW,' and instead design like EVE. IE, build your game satisfy a niche audience, design with a low overhead, and maintain a reasonable client base over time. You don't crash and burn nearly as hard if you're not always shooting for the moon.
Please don't try to speak for the entire MMO community and say what "we" are tired of. I for one actually am tired of paying a sub for MMORPG's. It's a complete rip off and has provided me no additional benefit I haven't had available to me in my preferred F2P titles.
The fact is F2P is more profitable. Not only from whales but from subs. Like I said in my prior post they have more subs now in LotRO after F2P than before the conversion. Also I don't know where you get that because a game is F2P the devs don't care about it. Take a look at a fledgling game like Super Monday Night Combat - their team of roughly 14 folks slaves over their F2P title pushing out weekly updates all of which are free to players (sans cosmetics). Having met the developers I know they're passionate about their game, love to play it, and want to see it succeed.
I won't play games with subs anymore. I won't become invested in something the developers are milking money from me monthly for while not actually delivering anything more and oftentimes less than many F2P titles on the market. This doesn't mean there's no room for sub games at all or that some people won't choose to sub, but the reality is F2P is here to stay and it or some variant of it will be the dominant business model for some time to come.
Lotro is my favourite mmo of all time with eq2 being a close second.
Sometimes I get tired of it and have a few months break, but I always come back.
The expansion looks awesome to me and most people I know that have tried the beta agree.
I'm a lifetime account holder as are a few others in my kin and we all think the F2P has been a huge benefit to the game, not everyone thinks F2P is a bad thing. We have lifetime members, VIP players and F2P players in my kin and we all have a great time. One of the F2P players was mad enough to grind numerous alts to get all content without paying a single penny.
I get 500 turbine points a month as a lifetime member, I've still chosen to spend around £150 a year on buying turbine points to enhance my game play as have most other lifetime members I know. That's about £12.50 a month, most people spend more on junk food. I only buy them when they have their 50% extra bonus point deals on and I see it as a great way of a company getting money to invest in further content (ROR looks awesome).
As to the ops complaint, I can understand their anger but I can't honestly think of one major company anywhere in the world where given the choice I would use. If I want my sky TV I have no choice but use one of two companies, both I detest. If I want to play Lotro I have to use turbine, if I want to play eq2, I have to use Sony etc. I could stop playing and doing anything, not have a mobile/cellphone, never shop at a supermarket, not buy my fav coffee etc etc etc as I don't like the companies that produce them, but in the real world, I either live a very isolated life to make a point ( a point the majority of people will never make, hence the companies concerned couldn't care less about my protest) , or I accept that big business is evil but something I need to use.
Turbine are bringing out the instance cluster, they won't have it ready in time for the expansions release, rather than delay the expansion further, they are releasing the instance cluster free for people who brought the expansion at a later date. Their decision to release at a later date has nothing to do with the ops protest ( as some have implied) they always planned to release it hence the op heard about it in the preorder.
Someone implied they were conned regarding the bag only being available in the most expensive prepurchase, it's called marketing. Each of the three prepurchase offers clearly told what was included and as I wanted the extra bag, I brought the expensive one.
I can understand turbines point of view on this, by choosing to buy in advance, I ge my extra bag now rather than when the expansion is released, I get other goodies too. Everything promised in the expansion is being released, just not all at once. Most people I know are a little pissed that the expansion is delayed and the instance cluster will be further delayed, at the same time we would rather it delayed and released when it's finished than rushed out. People who have played the beta also say there's plenty to keep us occupied until the instance cluster is release.
In all honesty im pretty much on the fence in regards to this game.
I wasn't impressed by SoM, and RoI i found almost insulting. Going free to play however was the right choice, because honestly the game was dying. It wasn't bleeding subs like .. SWTOR or something, but they clearly could no longer deliver quality and quantity content with the money they made(SoM and RoI where both in developement in the P2P model).
Now with RoR we have the first expansion thats entirely developed in the new F2P model. I will judge them on it, and imho this will show wether they are in maintenance mode or not. What i have seen from RoR has not impressed me that much, they have fundamentally changed very little(talking about animation locking you to the spot etc) and the class balance is still ... not optimal.
But hey, im going to give them the chance to impress me. Lately we even had a dev talking in a thread about housing! He made more posts in a single day in that thread then all of Turbine combined the last 5 years in the housing forum. So about 5. Not that im bitter about it ...
Comments
There's a sign on the official forums and the biggest fan forum too... some people I know for years (since release in 2007), who have always been die hard fanatic defenders of Turbine (what people here call "fanbois"), are turning their back to Turbine and have stopped defending them. When that happens, you know the game is doing really bad. I was co-running LOTRO Vault at release and was a big fan of the game myself, but LOTRO started to "die" slowly just after Moria and has never gone back to the design quality and community from Shadows of Angmar. The dictator style moderation only shows the insecurity of Turbine about that situation.
"Censorship reflects society's lack of confidence in itself. It is a hallmark of an authoritarian regime. ~Potter Stewart"
Respect, walk
Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me?
- PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
Yes, you're right. Now because of this thread, Turbine goes on my list. That makes #4 along with (1) EA, (2) Funcom, and (3) ----I hate to do this but I have no choice if D3 actually turns out to be designed around the RMAH after the next patches -- Activision-Blizzard.
As far as SOE, I just don't like any of their games, so I haven't had a chance to be burned by them. But I will be circumspect based on what I've read about them.
Fortunately, there are lots of other games out there to choose from by different developers!!!
i think they had a strong "fan" base during the SoA days... enough so that i would have payed a little more a month to keep the same quality. i would have payed 20 dollars a month to support them if they were honest but now they are nothing more than a scam. isengard has been the most dissapointing xpac ever for me personally. every aspect of their game is a money pit for them.
Another company then on my black list.
At this rate I'm better of making a white list instead..
The are owned by Warner Brothers actually. Just like EA owns Bioware... The greed , cash grab mentality and P2W have gradually become worse since WB took over.
Wow... I can't believe there are so many people defending this kind of behavior.
Free to play = content updates for the cash shop. Buy to play = content updates for the cash shop.
Subscription = Actual content updates!
Glad I'm not a lotr fan...
The current engine has serious problems (as well as hardware problems). I had to turn off game audio in order to quest in parts of RoI. Lag in the LL area is horrible. I fondly remember SoA days and hope they can return to at least close to those days. As it is I can barely log in these days and the game is just dead (even on the big E).
mmorpg.com ignores Turbines antics vecause they are and important advertiser. I have no idea why so many Turbine supporters stil ldefend them. It must be because they'd play any MMO that was set in Middle Earth.
I quit the game after F2P as the game is just rubbish now. I had played it from closed Beta but would never return to it again.
Clearly you have not read the posts on this thread you just took the OP post and jumped to conclusion. All i can say to this one sided post is that you're the only one with a positive comment about this game. You still enjoy this game? cool, well most of the loyal customers didnt because of what happened to them try to respect their opinions, not to mention they gave well thought out reasons why they decided to leave.
Everyone knows turbine screwed people with their false advertising, even the fanboys went wild. Troll better
This whole debacle has a huge effect on the ingame population.
A lot of people are burned because of it.
My guild has been very steady the last years population wise. Even through various new MMO launches.
But now it's dead as can be. After all these years.
It's just sad that this wonderful game has been ruined by corporate greed and mismanagement! /shrug
I dont see how it is currently the number #2 rated mmo behind Rift currently here.
Hullo, all. OP of screenshot here. Felt like adding some closure to the situation.
I have indeed cut my losses and have not logged in since this ended. Turbine failed to respond to my BBB complaint, and the BBB, per usual, sided with Turbine in the end, stating that 'Turbine made sufficient effort to resolve the issue'. Yeah. Right.
I've lost the enthusiasm to pursue this further. I could have done a lot with it, but with college and life, it's just... Not worth it.
I've watched the forums, and after the apparel dummies, I'm glad I haven't logged back in.
To anyone who can enjoy the game, I envy you. I've been a Tolkien fan ever since I could read, and I wish I could go back to LotRO.
But, this is the end of the road. /salute
If you're not planning on playing anymore, you could try a chargeback. Your account will probably get banned for it though.
We really need this game to go down.
The F2P propaganda has to come to an end.
"Dogs are the leaders of the planet. If you see two life forms, one of them's making a poop, the other one's carrying it for him, who would you assume is in charge."
"The idea behind the tuxedo is the woman's point of view that men are all the same; so we might as well dress them that way. That's why a wedding is like the joining together of a beautiful, glowing bride and some guy"
-Seinfeld
I must admit, I am intrigued.
I agree. WoW's fading success (It's a decade-old-game for Christ's sake!) coupled with the the belly flop of titles like TOR have sent the wrong message to the industry. The hard truth isn't that we're tired of paying for MMORPGs, it's that we're tired of paying for bad MMORPGs. Switching to F2P doesn't suddenly make a bad or ho-hum game good. And, not only that, but LOTRO's downturn has proven that even a decent game that goes F2P is ultimately screwed because of it.
I won't play F2P games. I won't become invested in something that the developers couldn't care less about. It's time for the people designing these things to stop running out of the gates with stars in their eyes, promising to be 'the next WoW,' and instead design like EVE. IE, build your game satisfy a niche audience, design with a low overhead, and maintain a reasonable client base over time. You don't crash and burn nearly as hard if you're not always shooting for the moon.
The guy who did the conversion was Craig Alexander. Also the one behind the conversion of DDO just before that. He happens to be my best friend's wife's uncle. I've talked to him about it many times and I've got to go with him since he's the inside guy and a friend of the family. You're wrong about the state of the game prior to F2P. It was dead and dying and they were looking for another option rather than pulling the plug. I can't tell you the exact number because I don't remember but long story short they have more subbing players now that it's F2P with an optional sub than they ever had when the sub was mandatory.
Steam: Neph
Please don't try to speak for the entire MMO community and say what "we" are tired of. I for one actually am tired of paying a sub for MMORPG's. It's a complete rip off and has provided me no additional benefit I haven't had available to me in my preferred F2P titles.
The fact is F2P is more profitable. Not only from whales but from subs. Like I said in my prior post they have more subs now in LotRO after F2P than before the conversion. Also I don't know where you get that because a game is F2P the devs don't care about it. Take a look at a fledgling game like Super Monday Night Combat - their team of roughly 14 folks slaves over their F2P title pushing out weekly updates all of which are free to players (sans cosmetics). Having met the developers I know they're passionate about their game, love to play it, and want to see it succeed.
I won't play games with subs anymore. I won't become invested in something the developers are milking money from me monthly for while not actually delivering anything more and oftentimes less than many F2P titles on the market. This doesn't mean there's no room for sub games at all or that some people won't choose to sub, but the reality is F2P is here to stay and it or some variant of it will be the dominant business model for some time to come.
Steam: Neph
Lotro is my favourite mmo of all time with eq2 being a close second.
Sometimes I get tired of it and have a few months break, but I always come back.
The expansion looks awesome to me and most people I know that have tried the beta agree.
I'm a lifetime account holder as are a few others in my kin and we all think the F2P has been a huge benefit to the game, not everyone thinks F2P is a bad thing. We have lifetime members, VIP players and F2P players in my kin and we all have a great time. One of the F2P players was mad enough to grind numerous alts to get all content without paying a single penny.
I get 500 turbine points a month as a lifetime member, I've still chosen to spend around £150 a year on buying turbine points to enhance my game play as have most other lifetime members I know. That's about £12.50 a month, most people spend more on junk food. I only buy them when they have their 50% extra bonus point deals on and I see it as a great way of a company getting money to invest in further content (ROR looks awesome).
As to the ops complaint, I can understand their anger but I can't honestly think of one major company anywhere in the world where given the choice I would use. If I want my sky TV I have no choice but use one of two companies, both I detest. If I want to play Lotro I have to use turbine, if I want to play eq2, I have to use Sony etc. I could stop playing and doing anything, not have a mobile/cellphone, never shop at a supermarket, not buy my fav coffee etc etc etc as I don't like the companies that produce them, but in the real world, I either live a very isolated life to make a point ( a point the majority of people will never make, hence the companies concerned couldn't care less about my protest) , or I accept that big business is evil but something I need to use.
Turbine are bringing out the instance cluster, they won't have it ready in time for the expansions release, rather than delay the expansion further, they are releasing the instance cluster free for people who brought the expansion at a later date. Their decision to release at a later date has nothing to do with the ops protest ( as some have implied) they always planned to release it hence the op heard about it in the preorder.
Someone implied they were conned regarding the bag only being available in the most expensive prepurchase, it's called marketing. Each of the three prepurchase offers clearly told what was included and as I wanted the extra bag, I brought the expensive one.
I can understand turbines point of view on this, by choosing to buy in advance, I ge my extra bag now rather than when the expansion is released, I get other goodies too. Everything promised in the expansion is being released, just not all at once. Most people I know are a little pissed that the expansion is delayed and the instance cluster will be further delayed, at the same time we would rather it delayed and released when it's finished than rushed out. People who have played the beta also say there's plenty to keep us occupied until the instance cluster is release.
Best
Joe
In all honesty im pretty much on the fence in regards to this game.
I wasn't impressed by SoM, and RoI i found almost insulting. Going free to play however was the right choice, because honestly the game was dying. It wasn't bleeding subs like .. SWTOR or something, but they clearly could no longer deliver quality and quantity content with the money they made(SoM and RoI where both in developement in the P2P model).
Now with RoR we have the first expansion thats entirely developed in the new F2P model. I will judge them on it, and imho this will show wether they are in maintenance mode or not. What i have seen from RoR has not impressed me that much, they have fundamentally changed very little(talking about animation locking you to the spot etc) and the class balance is still ... not optimal.
But hey, im going to give them the chance to impress me. Lately we even had a dev talking in a thread about housing! He made more posts in a single day in that thread then all of Turbine combined the last 5 years in the housing forum. So about 5. Not that im bitter about it ...