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  • lifeordinarylifeordinary AgadirPosts: 646Member
    Originally posted by xpiher
    Originally posted by lifeordinary
    Originally posted by xpiher

     


    Originally posted by sr7olsniper

    Originally posted by xpiher

    Originally posted by Xasapis it works in other games, why not here? it would even be more casual friendly since you could pick the path that suited your current free time. with this implementation if you have 40 mins you're stuck doing one run and that's it. with my suggestion you could pick two easy runs or a mid difficulty.
    Other games don't care about inflation due to the fact that the best gear is only achieved through doing a dungeon x amount of times. Look at the bigger picture. 
    Then that is a design flaw. Then again Anet wants you to be able to get stuff with gold because that in turn increases the chances of a gem sale. Lets be honest here thats all there is to it. I had the same problem in FFXI with farmers getting all the good spots and making the Market a nightmare for new players. That is why I enjoy WoW more than the FFXI system because I can get the best thing and not have a single cent to my name. I never have more than 10k gold on any of my chars but my main is in BIS heroic raid gear.  
    OMFG. Ok look, I'm really tired of seeing this stupid statement. ANETS busniess modle isn't realiant on the GEM story. Its a secondary revenue stream. Their primary revenue will come from future game sales. Just like GW1. ANET doesn't rent their servers, they own them, driving server cost down further. 

     

     

    Well..i am glad that Anet's invites you to all of its internal meetings and lets you know all the FACTS so that you can communicate with us.

    Thanks once again for credible information. You have a twitter i can follow for future information?

    You can tell this by the fact that the gem store simply SUCKS. Theres nothing in there, other than bank space, that the would tempt the vast majority of the player base into buying. It doesn't even have the slew of town clothes, costumes, minipets, etc that you would expect a F2P cash shop driven game to have. It doesn't sell you the ability to respec your character (common in item mall only games), etc. 

    Yes because it is another FACT that this is how cash shop is going to stay for future.  Anet said that they will keep expanding cash shop with more additions to it. Maybe they are wrong. I believe you.

  • UtukuMoonUtukuMoon ParisPosts: 1,066Member
    A thread that actually has the die hards attacking each other.

  • lifeordinarylifeordinary AgadirPosts: 646Member
    Originally posted by Caliburn101
    Originally posted by lifeordinary
    OMFG. Ok look, I'm really tired of seeing this stupid statement. ANETS busniess modle isn't realiant on the GEM story. Its a secondary revenue stream. Their primary revenue will come from future game sales. Just like GW1. ANET doesn't rent their servers, they own them, driving server cost down further. 

     

     

    Well..i am glad that Anet's invites you to all of its internal meetings and lets you know all the FACTS so that you can communicate with us.

    Thanks once again for credible information. You have a twitter i can follow for future information?

    Actaully -having brought up the 'gem store' arguement without any supporting evidence, you can't complain that others critique your position without evidence of their own.

    .... and it certainly does'nt justify you claiming someone else is an ANet stooge just becuase they disagree with you.

    Actually, there is no evidence I can see that the gem store works the way you claim and that diminishing returns encourages uptake if its pixel-products.

    None....

    That's for you to prove as you opened the door on this line of thinking.

    Can you?

    Here is a thing..if you are going to pass opiniona s a 'fact' link the credible information to back it up. Or people are going to ask you for one. It is not my burden to prove anything because i never made any 'claims' i am simply questoining it.

    Right now it is a word of random forum poster against that of Anet who said it several times that they will expand cash shop. But thanks for chiming in.

  • bunnyhopperbunnyhopper LondonPosts: 2,751Member
    Originally posted by sr7olsniper
    Originally posted by bunnyhopper
    Originally posted by sr7olsniper
    Originally posted by bunnyhopper
    Originally posted by TwoThreeFour
    Originally posted by bunnyhopper
    Originally posted by TwoThreeFour
    Originally posted by bunnyhopper
    Originally posted by TwoThreeFour
    Originally posted by Connmacart
     

     

     

     

     

    Here is the thing though, that is why you implement a cap. YOu let the people that want to clear stuff fast do it and let the slower folk do it too at their own pace, ultimately everyone will advance at the same time if that is really want Anet was going for. They didnt do that, however, what they did was basically punish you for running something too fast. Which is the whole point of this thread as far as DEs and Dungeons go. If the reward is "overpoweredly" good then it obviously needs some tweaking but you tweak the base numbers not punish the player. So lets say you get 40 points for runing dungeon A on Path X, and this is obsenely wrong compared to other methods. What you do then is decrese the points for that particual method by an ammount that evens out in X ammount of time compared to other forms of enjoyment. They havnt done that thouhg, What they have done is basically punished the speed runners for being just that, enjoying speed runs. Which, again, is the main focus of the thread. They are forcing you to play THEIR way or the highway pretty much, even thought it goes against their manifesto. Let me put it this way, if you have a Boss in a raid and the developers have invisioned the players to kill it an X way but somehow the playerbase found a new and compeltely different way to kill the boss that doenst involve an exploit then taht is a good thing. You dont go and punish the players for having fun and discovering new things on YOUR game. That is what happens in wow (I know its taboo topic but its very relevant to this point); the devs have said time and time again that sometimes they think players will kill a boss in 1 way but the players then do a 180 and kill them another way. It is a fun thing to do to deviate from the norm and it something Anet is not doing at the moment. Like I said in a previous post it is bordering on North Korean territory

    Wall of text crits for 500.

     

    They have not "punished" speed runners, they have tweaked a reward mechanic that was clearly out of whack and clearly unintended. The speed runners will still get teh suffz faster than casuals, just not stupid as hell fast.

     

    I love the way you bring up "discovering new things", how the fuck is running the same dungeon path, over and over again, as fast as possible just to get rewards as fast as possible compared to every single other method "discovering new things"?

     

    Speeds runners are there for two reasons:

    1. Get loot as fast as possible. In this case unintendedly fast and so it has been fixed.

    2. Just for the sake of fast gameplay. In this case there has been zero change.

    "Come and have a look at what you could have won."

  • Caliburn101Caliburn101 LondonPosts: 636Member
    Originally posted by lifeordinary
    Originally posted by Caliburn101
    Originally posted by lifeordinary
    OMFG. Ok look, I'm really tired of seeing this stupid statement. ANETS busniess modle isn't realiant on the GEM story. Its a secondary revenue stream. Their primary revenue will come from future game sales. Just like GW1. ANET doesn't rent their servers, they own them, driving server cost down further. 

     

     

    Well..i am glad that Anet's invites you to all of its internal meetings and lets you know all the FACTS so that you can communicate with us.

    Thanks once again for credible information. You have a twitter i can follow for future information?

    Actaully -having brought up the 'gem store' arguement without any supporting evidence, you can't complain that others critique your position without evidence of their own.

    .... and it certainly does'nt justify you claiming someone else is an ANet stooge just becuase they disagree with you.

    Actually, there is no evidence I can see that the gem store works the way you claim and that diminishing returns encourages uptake if its pixel-products.

    None....

    That's for you to prove as you opened the door on this line of thinking.

    Can you?

    Here is a thing..if you are going to pass opiniona s a 'fact' link the credible information to back it up. Or people are going to ask you for one. It is not my burden to prove anything because i never made any 'claims' i am simply questoining it.

    Right now it is a word of random forum poster against that of Anet who said it several times that they will expand cash shop. But thanks for chiming in.

    What 'passing opinion as a fact' of mine are you talking about?

    Please confine your answers to what I write - not a creative version of what you would prefer my arguement to be.

    EDIT: - No, scratch that - I am not interested in debating the issues with anyone who would appear to believe that people can't understand my established position well enough to detect any amateurish attempt to try and misdirect them from it.

    Knock yourself out....

  • RaekonRaekon AugsburgPosts: 553Member
    Originally posted by sr7olsniper
    Originally posted by xpiher
    Originally posted by Xasapis
    it works in other games, why not here? it would even be more casual friendly since you could pick the path that suited your current free time.

    with this implementation if you have 40 mins you're stuck doing one run and that's it. with my suggestion you could pick two easy runs or a mid difficulty.

    Other games don't care about inflation due to the fact that the best gear is only achieved through doing a dungeon x amount of times. Look at the bigger picture. 

    Then that is a design flaw. Then again Anet wants you to be able to get stuff with gold because that in turn increases the chances of a gem sale. Lets be honest here thats all there is to it. I had the same problem in FFXI with farmers getting all the good spots and making the Market a nightmare for new players. That is why I enjoy WoW more than the FFXI system because I can get the best thing and not have a single cent to my name. I never have more than 10k gold on any of my chars but my main is in BIS heroic raid gear.  

    So with other words you don't even play GW2 but rather jump in threads that are likely negative towards the game for whatever reason?

    Some infos for you:

    Where do I get the gear from?

    • Common = Mob Drops, Chest Rewards, Merchants
    • Fine = Mob Drops, Chest Rewards, Karma Merchants, Crafting, Mystic Forge
    • Masterwork = Mob Drops, Chest Rewards, Karma Merchants, Crafting, Mystic Forge
    • Rare = Mob Drops, Chest Rewards, Karma Merchants, Cultural Vendor Merchants, Crafting, Mystic Forge, Dungeon Token Rewards
    • Exotic = Mystic Forge, Dungeon Token Rewards, WvW Merchants, Crafting
    • Legendary = Mystic Forge
    So much to your theory that one needs nessecarily gold to get a set right?
    The only part that CAN involve gold but doesn't NEED or HAVE to, is crafting.
     
    If you don't play a game but care enough to participate in its discussions, then at least inform yourself before you get involved so you know how things works before you come up with contradicting or false arguments.
  • NadiaNadia Canonsburg, PAPosts: 11,866Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter

    They didnt punish speed runners.

    They punish speed runners that do the same dungeon path over and over and over,.

    If having less loot per hour is a punishment, then people doing any path but the one that gives better reward/hour is being punished by trying stuff that isn't the most optimal.

    Unless loot isn't a reward and people just run the same path over and over and over for fun, and so they didn't get punished at all.

    ANET did punish speed runners - 3 different changes to all dungeons

    the part i highlighted in yello affects everyone no matter how many different paths you take

    http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/365276/ANET-commentary-on-patched-dungeons.html

    Let me clarify the change a bit since not everyone understands it.

    If you run the exact same chain twice in a row you will have your rewards cut. This means you can bounce back and forth between 2 different chains, even in the same dungeon without ever hitting this change. This change is made to encourage people to try different chains.


    If you speed clear dungeons at a rate of more than 2/ hour, and continue to do that for some time your rewards will slowly begin to degrade. It doesn't kick in after running a single dungeon and it doesn't immediately zero out rewards.

    Finally we reduced the value of repeating the story mode, because they are built to be easier and we want to encourage those repeating dungeons to run explore mode.

  • Scypheroth87Scypheroth87 Prince Albert, SKPosts: 14Member
    LoL and ppl thought this game was the next best thing...seems to me the community is seen as slaves and they have the whip, do what they say or be banned. Thank god i didnt waist a dime on this epic fail of a so called MMO...
  • lifeordinarylifeordinary AgadirPosts: 646Member
    Originally posted by Caliburn101
    Originally posted by lifeordinary
    Originally posted by Caliburn101
    Originally posted by lifeordinary
    OMFG. Ok look, I'm really tired of seeing this stupid statement. ANETS busniess modle isn't realiant on the GEM story. Its a secondary revenue stream. Their primary revenue will come from future game sales. Just like GW1. ANET doesn't rent their servers, they own them, driving server cost down further. 

     

     

    Well..i am glad that Anet's invites you to all of its internal meetings and lets you know all the FACTS so that you can communicate with us.

    Thanks once again for credible information. You have a twitter i can follow for future information?

    Actaully -having brought up the 'gem store' arguement without any supporting evidence, you can't complain that others critique your position without evidence of their own.

    .... and it certainly does'nt justify you claiming someone else is an ANet stooge just becuase they disagree with you.

    Actually, there is no evidence I can see that the gem store works the way you claim and that diminishing returns encourages uptake if its pixel-products.

    None....

    That's for you to prove as you opened the door on this line of thinking.

    Can you?

    Here is a thing..if you are going to pass opiniona s a 'fact' link the credible information to back it up. Or people are going to ask you for one. It is not my burden to prove anything because i never made any 'claims' i am simply questoining it.

    Right now it is a word of random forum poster against that of Anet who said it several times that they will expand cash shop. But thanks for chiming in.

    What 'passing opinion as a fact' of mine are you talking about?

    Please confine your answers to what I write - not a creative version of what you would prefer my arguement to be.

    You quoted me right? so i am talking to you on same line of the post you quoted.

    Wild speculations. and conjecture just confuses people and leads to misinformation. He doesn't know whether gem store is NOT the main source for their revenue. He doesn't know for FACT that this is how cash shop is going to be for future. No one knows that except for ANET.

    By questoining his claims i am not implying that cash shop is indeed their primary mode of revenue but it means that in cases like this i would take word of Anet over random forum posters any day.

    If i am going to make claim i would rather post some credible information to back up my claim..

    But hey you if you just want to argue for the sake of it...i rather not. I don't like to take these forums too seriously. ;)

  • mazutmazut SofiaPosts: 886Member Uncommon

    The dungeon limitation is fair, but DE and mob limitation is an overact. Wasnt necessary. People who are not abusing the game can have limited time and want to spend it doing only DEs.

    They must find the ballance in this.

  • Kaelano1Kaelano1 Peoria, ILPosts: 375Member
    Originally posted by Scypheroth87
    LoL and ppl thought this game was the next best thing...seems to me the community is seen as slaves and they have the whip, do what they say or be banned.

    Hallelujah. People are starting to "get it".

  • lunarwitch00lunarwitch00 kanas, MOPosts: 43Member

    yes ive said my few thing on some stuff but heres the deal

     

    its not as bad as some people put off.

     

    everyone knew there was going to be at least some changes nothing is perfect.

     

    some people dont like the game

    some people do

     

    the game is good least i believe so.

    just hope that anet doesnt completely give in to people whining about stuff.

    and keep working on the anti bot system so people dont get hit by it.

     

    if it works it works fine.

    but when players hit caps playing normally thats definately not a good thing.

     

    basicly this dont listen to anything you read about it try and find out you might like it you might not.

     

     

  • dariuszpdariuszp PrzeworskPosts: 182Member
    Originally posted by sr7olsniper 

    yes because Anet is god and GW2 is the best thing since sliced bread. Dude chillax, people are allowed to play however they want to play and if they want to farm for hours on end as long as it doenst violate the EULA they are in their right to do so. Claiming someone has no life, or has issues if they are playing too much is not only retarded on your part but also makes your entire post garbage. The methods in question have not prevented farming since it is still rampant, however it has also affeceted the players as you can see from the record of this thread. YOu either add constructive critisism or add some depth into the conversation or you might as well stfu, just saying. 

    Yes, I played almost every dam MMO on mmorpg.com list that is not at lowest bottom. Because I was looking for MMO that give me a feeling that I play MMO. Not some single player garbage with people around me (I'm looking at you TOR). So for me, GW2 IS next best thing. My next MMO after EVE that I loved because it allow me to progress even doing short sessions per day or even once every few days.

    ANet is not a GOD but they listen anyway. Things OP mentioned are EXPLAINED BY ANET. There release note about this.

    No one prevent farming. You can kill those mobs for days until they restart servers and when servers come back online you can farm even more. You can farm until you die. Just don't expect rewards at some point. Still - if you enjoy farming, lower rewards should not be a problem.

    Just like dungeon farmer in other posts. If you love doing dungeons one after another without break etc then decreasing rewards should not be a problem. Because you should enjoy activity anyway right ? It seems they do it just for the sake of farming. And farming my friend is kind of bad for economy. 

    Also it is quite logical. After you cleared dungeon or anything else you should not expect that gold will magically return to the chest or something. Same with farming mobs. You killed all donkeys in the area. One donkey killed and ate knight in golder armor. You cut out that armor and you wear it (blah... :/) and you expect that donkeys ate more knights in golder armor ? Sorry :P

    This method affect farmers. Call it all you want. Once you are doing same activity for hours and hours you are a farmer. Like it or not. And if you do it for hours and hours then trust me - you really have problems in your life. Normal person return from school/work, eat something, do something around the house, play hour or two and go to sleep or go out with friends. I don't know how people could waste their life playing 6-8 hours (long sesions in mmo last even more than 1 day !) a game. 

    Like they can't do a thing in real life so they need virtual one with easy mode (compare to real life). This is kind of sad. Those people need help.

  • sr7olsnipersr7olsniper Alhambra, CAPosts: 206Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter
    Originally posted by sr7olsniper

    Here is the thing though, that is why you implement a cap. YOu let the people that want to clear stuff fast do it and let the slower folk do it too at their own pace, ultimately everyone will advance at the same time if that is really want Anet was going for. They didnt do that, however, what they did was basically punish you for running something too fast. Which is the whole point of this thread as far as DEs and Dungeons go. If the reward is "overpoweredly" good then it obviously needs some tweaking but you tweak the base numbers not punish the player. So lets say you get 40 points for runing dungeon A on Path X, and this is obsenely wrong compared to other methods. What you do then is decrese the points for that particual method by an ammount that evens out in X ammount of time compared to other forms of enjoyment. They havnt done that thouhg, What they have done is basically punished the speed runners for being just that, enjoying speed runs. Which, again, is the main focus of the thread. They are forcing you to play THEIR way or the highway pretty much, even thought it goes against their manifesto. Let me put it this way, if you have a Boss in a raid and the developers have invisioned the players to kill it an X way but somehow the playerbase found a new and compeltely different way to kill the boss that doenst involve an exploit then taht is a good thing. You dont go and punish the players for having fun and discovering new things on YOUR game. That is what happens in wow (I know its taboo topic but its very relevant to this point); the devs have said time and time again that sometimes they think players will kill a boss in 1 way but the players then do a 180 and kill them another way. It is a fun thing to do to deviate from the norm and it something Anet is not doing at the moment. Like I said in a previous post it is bordering on North Korean territory

    They didnt punish speed runners.

    They punish speed runners that do the same dungeon path over and over and over,.

    If having less loot per hour is a punishment, then people doing any path but the one that gives better reward/hour is being punished by trying stuff that isn't the most optimal.

    Unless loot isn't a reward and people just run the same path over and over and over for fun, and so they didn't get punished at all.

    That is the thing, you are punishing those that want to speed run since they are in their right to do so with in the EULA. And as I mentioned in a previous post no one runs the same content indefinetly wiht no reward. YOu can only do the same thing so many times before you are bored. Just like any single player game, once you beat it once  you have seen everything that particular thing has to offer. So you etiher really want to run it again or you do it because there is something you want at the end. If its the former then you can only do it so many times before you are sick of it. I mentioned Chrono trigger since it is the game I have replayed the most of and even then iut was far between months because it got boring. Dont get me wrong I love Chrono Trigger to death and will probably replay it again this weekend, but my last playtrhough was 3 years ago. YOu cant do that in an MMO you need people constantly doing the same content or the player pool starts to shrink and you cant do group content anymore. That is where I am goiung at. 

    At least with a sub game they know that people won't tolerate bullshit and leave. With anet we have no recourse but to buy our own lube so our assholes don't get too stretched out from getting bent over a table at Anets will. - Hrimnir

  • PieRadPieRad Odense MPosts: 1,108Member
    Originally posted by Caliburn101
    Originally posted by PieRad
    Originally posted by Caliburn101
    Originally posted by AvatarBlade
    Haven't done a lot of farming or DEs latley, but as far as explorable goes, more tokens for harder paths than for easy ones would be a way better solution. Don't mind it getting less token for running the same path only, but I did 2 of them in Arah yesterday. One has 2 champion fights and 2 boss fights, which took like 1.5-2h to complete. The second one had 1 champion fight and 5 boss fights, took like 4h to complete, yet gave the same ammount of tokens. Sure it was rewarding to finish that hard path, but it still felt that you should get a bit more tokens for completing it.

    Yeah the queues of flaming armour geared hardcores outside of CoF doing the same run all day is testament to this. I've done the run three times and am now bored of it.

    The fact I want the flame weapons for transforms means I will be running  the dungeon some more, but I am getting tired of being forced, when I am pugging, to do the same run ad nauseam because the gear looks good and everyone wants it as fast as possible becuase it is level 75 and not something they regard as endgame (aka get through it ASAP) - I want to do the other wings of the dugeon and this imbalance is spoiling my enjoyment and  the enjoyment of others I know trying to enjoy the rich extent of the game - not wallowing in the farming hotspots doing the same thing again and again....

    ....the little-discussed flip side to the leetist desires and negative collateral effects of the 'I want it all and I want it now' crowd.

    Sounds like you're jealous?

    I mean, those of us who put the time and effort into getting it fast, deserves it, don't we? We play however we like, and we don't talk bad about you, so why do you feel the need to talk trash about us?

    What is the negative collateral effect from me getting all the pieces fast? Does it hurt you in any way?

    Not trying to start a war here, I'm just curious.

    The problem has been a fairly obvious one since MMO's began - it's the solution that has eluded designers....

    Accusations of jealousy are just lazy - so I'll treat that with the *sigh* it deserves.

    Onto the meat of the issue however;

    I want to get some kit from CoF; I can't guild group run it all the time and so I pug. But pugging means I am restricted exclusively to the damn spam run in explorable and I am not enjoying that content anymore. I could do what the majority have done and bypass it for the level 80 dungeons and their greater rewards, but I want the look of the weapons because it goes bests with my culture gear - also chosen for appearace not stats.

    It is not the choice of the run-spammers which is actually the root cause of the problem - it's the fact the run is too easy and too fast for consistently high reward. The spammers are just scratching the spot until it bleeds....

    Spammers always complain about restrictions on choice and then go and throw themselves into the same repetitive miminum effort/maximum reward repetition cycle - using the loudly defended 'we want a variety of choice' arguement  to then go and choose to play the minimum variety of content.... counterintuitive to say the least.

    The flipside of this is the 'casuals' who want everything on a plate and no advantage for the 'no-lifers'. 'I pay the same so I should get the same', 'time chained to your computer doesn't equal skill'.... blah blah the same old points regurgitated....

    Take you're pick - they are both 'wrong' in my opinion - it's just the 24/7 players are more vocal due to having the time to spam forums :) ....

    ... anyway, where was I.... ah yes - I want a balance - maximum content accessibility with just a reasonable diminishing returns brake on content spamming so a more balanced game economy and less adversarial, leetist... call it what you like, vibe is to be had all round.

    I have my full Ravagers Set, all the accessories I wanted for dungeons and most for soloing. I have the full culture set for appearance. I just want to get the flame weapons whilst having soem fun just for the looks.... already got better weapons equiped stat-wise.

    But bugger me if I can find a pug-group for anything else but that bloody same explorable run every time.

    I don't craft much - but I do appreciate the economic arguement for balance - it's as plain as the nose on my face.

    It is simply not tenable to have a parallel line between reward and time played when the source of reward is infinite - it ruins games. ANet just need to get the counterbalance system better tuned and fairer to all concerned.

     

    The "jealousy" accusation came to life, because you bring "no lifers, elitists, and hardcore gamers" into a lot of your posts, as if they are the source of the problem.

    If something is too easy then bottom line is game design, and tweaking the game design in a way so it doesn't feel punishing to gamers, no matter how they play.

    I'm in a guild that did run CoF a lot, and was able to do guild runs almost exclusively, so I guess that's a matter of choosing the right guild. I'm certain that there are guilds out there that focuses more on exploring different paths in dungeons, but still "farm" it to a lesser degree of what hardcore guilds do, to get the weapons you wanted.

    And if such a guild didn't exist, I could imagine just saying "LFG CoF, path X" would help you to get in groups that doesn't concentrate on just getting through it as fast as possible.

     

    You can't have better weapons than exotic CoF weapons, they are all the same statwise.

    For example: Crafted exotic beserker greatsword, is exactly the same as the exotic power/precision/crit.dmg greatsword from CoF, just saying :P

     

     

     

    image

  • bunnyhopperbunnyhopper LondonPosts: 2,751Member
    Originally posted by Nadia
    Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter
     

    ANET did punish speed runners - 3 different changes to all dungeons

    the part i highlighted in yello affects everyone no matter how many different paths you take

    http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/365276/ANET-commentary-on-patched-dungeons.html

    Let me clarify the change a bit since not everyone understands it.

    If you run the exact same chain twice in a row you will have your rewards cut. This means you can bounce back and forth between 2 different chains, even in the same dungeon without ever hitting this change. This change is made to encourage people to try different chains.


    If you speed clear dungeons at a rate of more than 2/ hour, and continue to do that for some time your rewards will slowly begin to degrade. It doesn't kick in after running a single dungeon and it doesn't immediately zero out rewards.

    Finally we reduced the value of repeating the story mode, because they are built to be easier and we want to encourage those repeating dungeons to run explore mode.

    If people are running dungeons at that rate, they are doing it for loot reasons. They are getting rewarded at a rate that ANET clearly did not intend. Ergo the possible peak return rate has been changed.

    "Come and have a look at what you could have won."

  • sr7olsnipersr7olsniper Alhambra, CAPosts: 206Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Raekon
    Originally posted by sr7olsniper
    Originally posted by xpiher
    Originally posted by Xasapis
    it works in other games, why not here? it would even be more casual friendly since you could pick the path that suited your current free time.

    with this implementation if you have 40 mins you're stuck doing one run and that's it. with my suggestion you could pick two easy runs or a mid difficulty.

    Other games don't care about inflation due to the fact that the best gear is only achieved through doing a dungeon x amount of times. Look at the bigger picture. 

    Then that is a design flaw. Then again Anet wants you to be able to get stuff with gold because that in turn increases the chances of a gem sale. Lets be honest here thats all there is to it. I had the same problem in FFXI with farmers getting all the good spots and making the Market a nightmare for new players. That is why I enjoy WoW more than the FFXI system because I can get the best thing and not have a single cent to my name. I never have more than 10k gold on any of my chars but my main is in BIS heroic raid gear.  

    So with other words you don't even play GW2 but rather jump in threads that are likely negative towards the game for whatever reason?

    Some infos for you:

    Where do I get the gear from?

    • Common = Mob Drops, Chest Rewards, Merchants
    • Fine = Mob Drops, Chest Rewards, Karma Merchants, Crafting, Mystic Forge
    • Masterwork = Mob Drops, Chest Rewards, Karma Merchants, Crafting, Mystic Forge
    • Rare = Mob Drops, Chest Rewards, Karma Merchants, Cultural Vendor Merchants, Crafting, Mystic Forge, Dungeon Token Rewards
    • Exotic = Mystic Forge, Dungeon Token Rewards, WvW Merchants, Crafting
    • Legendary = Mystic Forge
    So much to your theory that one needs nessecarily gold to get a set right?
    The only part that CAN involve gold but doesn't NEED or HAVE to, is crafting.
     
    If you don't play a game but care enough to participate in its discussions, then at least inform yourself before you get involved so you know how things works before you come up with contradicting or false arguments.

    I was not giving a particullar example, and rather was counter arguing the previous poster. He was claiming that it was all done in an attempot to fix the ecvonomy because it was gear dependant. As you have so eloquently put it, the game itself is not economy dependant and so the previous poster had no idea of what he was talkinga bout. You basically made my point for me in a way. 

    At least with a sub game they know that people won't tolerate bullshit and leave. With anet we have no recourse but to buy our own lube so our assholes don't get too stretched out from getting bent over a table at Anets will. - Hrimnir

  • Gaia_HunterGaia_Hunter BristolPosts: 2,830Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Nadia
    Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter

    They didnt punish speed runners.

    They punish speed runners that do the same dungeon path over and over and over,.

    If having less loot per hour is a punishment, then people doing any path but the one that gives better reward/hour is being punished by trying stuff that isn't the most optimal.

    Unless loot isn't a reward and people just run the same path over and over and over for fun, and so they didn't get punished at all.

    ANET did punish speed runners - 3 different changes to all dungeons

    the part i highlighted in yello affects everyone no matter how many different paths you take

    http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/365276/ANET-commentary-on-patched-dungeons.html

    Let me clarify the change a bit since not everyone understands it.

    If you run the exact same chain twice in a row you will have your rewards cut. This means you can bounce back and forth between 2 different chains, even in the same dungeon without ever hitting this change. This change is made to encourage people to try different chains.


    If you speed clear dungeons at a rate of more than 2/ hour, and continue to do that for some time your rewards will slowly begin to degrade. It doesn't kick in after running a single dungeon and it doesn't immediately zero out rewards.

    Finally we reduced the value of repeating the story mode, because they are built to be easier and we want to encourage those repeating dungeons to run explore mode.

    Question is how many dungeon paths can you do in under 1 hour?

    3 dungeon paths, 20 minutes each? Maybe CM paths?

     

    Currently playing: GW2
    Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders

  • Kaelano1Kaelano1 Peoria, ILPosts: 375Member
    Originally posted by bunnyhopper
    Originally posted by Nadia
    Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter
     
    blahh blahh...

    If people are running dungeons at that rate, they are doing it for loot reasons. They are getting rewarded at a rate that ANET clearly did not intend. Ergo the possible peak return rate has been changed.

    How many examples will we be shown of ANet punishing others for their own mistakes?

  • bunnyhopperbunnyhopper LondonPosts: 2,751Member
    Originally posted by sr7olsniper
    Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter
    Originally posted by sr7olsniper

     

    un the same path over and over and over for fun, and so they didn't get punished at all.

    That is the thing, you are punishing those that want to speed run since they are in their right to do so with in the EULA. And as I mentioned in a previous post no one runs the same content indefinetly wiht no reward. YOu can only do the same thing so many times before you are bored. Just like any single player game, once you beat it once  you have seen everything that particular thing has to offer. So you etiher really want to run it again or you do it because there is something you want at the end. If its the former then you can only do it so many times before you are sick of it. I mentioned Chrono trigger since it is the game I have replayed the most of and even then iut was far between months because it got boring. Dont get me wrong I love Chrono Trigger to death and will probably replay it again this weekend, but my last playtrhough was 3 years ago. YOu cant do that in an MMO you need people constantly doing the same content or the player pool starts to shrink and you cant do group content anymore. That is where I am goiung at. 

    I don't recall seeing anything in the EULA about a specific set return rate of rewards that every player was entitled to? Perhaps you can find that part for us?

    "Come and have a look at what you could have won."

  • lifeordinarylifeordinary AgadirPosts: 646Member
    Originally posted by bunnyhopper
    Originally posted by Nadia
    Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter
     

    ANET did punish speed runners - 3 different changes to all dungeons

    the part i highlighted in yello affects everyone no matter how many different paths you take

    http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/365276/ANET-commentary-on-patched-dungeons.html

    Let me clarify the change a bit since not everyone understands it.

    If you run the exact same chain twice in a row you will have your rewards cut. This means you can bounce back and forth between 2 different chains, even in the same dungeon without ever hitting this change. This change is made to encourage people to try different chains.


    If you speed clear dungeons at a rate of more than 2/ hour, and continue to do that for some time your rewards will slowly begin to degrade. It doesn't kick in after running a single dungeon and it doesn't immediately zero out rewards.

    Finally we reduced the value of repeating the story mode, because they are built to be easier and we want to encourage those repeating dungeons to run explore mode.

    If people are running dungeons at that rate, they are doing it for loot reasons. They are getting rewarded at a rate that ANET clearly did not intend. Ergo the possible peak return rate has been changed.

    I don't understand. Players are not getting any stastical advantage from the gear. No matter what source you use, you get armor of almsot identical stats other than tier 3 legendary gear.

    So why is it a problem if players want to grind dungeons for gear which is mostly for looks? i would understand that Anet is scared that people would consume content too soon and stop paying monthly sub but that is not how the game was designed now was it?

    If anything these changes go against everything that Anet has been saying regarding how they want players to just play and have fun in GW2.

    So i am sorry but i can not digest this reasoning.

  • evilastroevilastro EdinburghPosts: 4,270Member

    This post seriously confuses me... people actually are upset that they need to explore and do different things?

    Variety is the spice of life. Go enjoy the rest of the game to level up rather than grinding that one DE.

  • bunnyhopperbunnyhopper LondonPosts: 2,751Member
    Originally posted by Kaelano1
    Originally posted by bunnyhopper
    Originally posted by Nadia
    Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter
     
    blahh blahh...

    If people are running dungeons at that rate, they are doing it for loot reasons. They are getting rewarded at a rate that ANET clearly did not intend. Ergo the possible peak return rate has been changed.

    How many examples will we be shown of ANet punishing others for their own mistakes?

    Probably plenty, but then not fixing those mistakes would be worse.

    "Come and have a look at what you could have won."

  • NadiaNadia Canonsburg, PAPosts: 11,866Member Uncommon

    personally i would have preferred having dungeon lockouts for 1 hour

    but every dev has their own method

  • ThorbrandThorbrand West Palm Beach, FLPosts: 1,198Member

    Here is what it comes down to: GW2 at 80 is nothing but grinding. You grind mats, gold, karma, skill points or what ever else for exotics and ledgendaries. That is all there is to do at 80 and now they are putting a limit on being able to grind.

    That is just stupid! You can not make a game around grinding a than limit grinding.

This discussion has been closed.