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  • xpiherxpiher Indianapolis, INPosts: 3,311Member


    Originally posted by Draftbeer

    Originally posted by xpiher 1) Never played GW1 did you? These systems existed in it as well 2) You can cirumvent the anti-farming code by moving areas. As soon as you see your rewards drop, pack up and move. Yes, its that easy 3) Dungeons being broken is a sperate issue. Once they are fixed (which they should be if they are infact broken), the anti-dungeon farming code won't be noticed if you cycle between 2-3 different paths of the same dungeon. 
    Also they were stupid there as well. There are ways to keep the economy of a themepark healthly, what they do is NOT the way. Only slows down the process making ppl's fun less and less meanwhile.   Introduce item decay but remove the DR code completely.
    Item decay? That doesn't stop inflation... And its your opinon that it was dumb in GW1. Its not like after playing for an hour you suddenly stop getting loot, All it does is encourage you to move to a different area. IMO, its not that bad and doesn't affect your ability to progress in the game. Even if you are farming for mats since multiple zones have multiple types of mobs that drop the same matts.


    Originally posted by Xasapis

    Originally posted by xpiher 1) Never played GW1 did you? These systems existed in it as well 2) You can cirumvent the anti-farming code by moving areas. As soon as you see your rewards drop, pack up and move. Yes, its that easy 3) Dungeons being broken is a sperate issue. Once they are fixed (which they should be if they are infact broken), the anti-dungeon farming code won't be noticed if you cycle between 2-3 different paths of the same dungeon.  As long as you finish any dungeon path or any dungeon in less than 30 mins the diminishing returns will kick in (once the system works properly). So if you enter a dungeon in less than 30 mins after leaving the last one, you'll activate the diminishing returns code.

     

    I'm not disputing this. My point was once dungeons are fixed there'll be more way around the anti-farming code. With that said, the dungeons I've done, in good groups with out death, have taken just over 30mins to complete in good teams. Simply killing mobs, bosses, and doing the complete dungeon (moving around) usually last about 40mins. Unless you are skipping fights or only doing half a path you shouldn't finish a dungeon in under 30mins.


    Originally posted by MurlockDance

    Originally posted by sr7olsniper Umm, yes that was my bad communism is a economical theory. What i meant to say is a Dictatorship, the oposite of a Democracy. Their manifesto was all about having a world where you could do whatever you wanted to do (as long as it didnt go agasint the EULA), but what they have done now borders on something North Korea would do. 
    Thanks for that And agreed with respect to ANet but they have done similar things in GW1. They are stuck between a rock and a hard place though with the exploiters.   On another point: I wonder if it is really as simple as just moving area once you stop getting nodes/mat drops/whatever. I did switch a couple times lastnight and I noticed that after a point I just didn't get drops anywhere I went. I went from level 15-25 area to Asura starter zone to Norn starter zone and I barely found any nodes where earlier this week I found lots of them. The mobs did not drop mats. This was in a 2 hour play session. I was finding lots of mats beforehand, and then suddenly none. The DEs all worked for me though I stopped getting rewards towards the end of the session, even though I had been in the Norn zone for only 30 minutes. I can't honestly remember if I had played 4 DEs or not but I tend not to farm DEs i.e. I try to move around and do different DEs for the sake of what little sanity I have left. Maybe it is bugged?
     

    If this was in fact the case than its likely bugged. It could of also simply been bad luck.


    Originally posted by Sylvarii This has nothing to do with botters and more to do with ArenaNet wanting everyone to use the cash shop. Did you really think that buying the game is enough for ArenaNet,nope cashshop is their bread and butter.
    IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE CASH SHOP. The whole reason I pointed out the fact that this was done in GW1 was counter this very very dumb argument. 

    Its done for 2 reasons

    1) Punish botters

    2) Curb inflation

    Curbing inflation is probably the primary reason. Its the same reason why the TP is universal. 


    Originally posted by Xasapis Or simply reward the harder paths with more rewards:
    • Path A takes 20mins? Give 20 tokens total
    • Path B takes 40mins? Give 40 tokens Path C takes 2 hours? Give 120 tokens
    That way you'd have a choice, do I do the easiest path until I get sick of it or just go for the others as well, knowing it will take more time but it'll be worth it?   They wouldn't even need to adjust the difficulty between the paths. They'd only need to adjust the challenge vs reward ratio.
    You aren't looking at the whole picture. If they increase the rewards for the harder paths, people will simply flock to those paths that give the better rewards. Its not just about people only doing 1 path and nothing else, its about crubing inflation and stopping botters. If they up rewards, botters and infaltion are still a huge issue. And no, gold sinks don't fix it either.

    image
    Games:
    Currently playing:Nothing
    Will play: Darkfall: Unholy Wars
    Past games:
    Guild Wars 2 - Xpiher Duminous
    Xpiher's GW2
    GW 1 - Xpiher Duminous
    Darkfall - Xpiher Duminous (NA) retired
    AoC - Xpiher (Tyranny) retired
    Warhammer - Xpiher

  • dageezadageeza london, KYPosts: 578Member

    The dungeon fixes were needed however the kneejerk anti farming nerf that anet pulled off on diminishing loot for farming the same mob type in events or even in the field grinding is indeed overkill and imho violates their own manifesto..

    I am not a farmer nor do i play to accumulate huge wealth or exploit anything, i play for fun first but this change last week nevertheless has affected my post 80 playstyle which is to camp the same DEs in the zones that i like and in orr keep in mind there is only a few mob types involved in most of the DE cycles..

    So for days now i have watched my loot diminish mid event against risen mobs from already meh loot until i am at times dropping absolutely nothing from no mob in the final waves of part 1 of an ongoing event and when you get experience for a minimum of 10 kills per wave and drop nothing but maybe one white junk or you drop no loot for the last 2 waves time after time it begins to lose the feeling of being enjoyable or even being able to play a very legit style to its maximum..

    With the above said im also going to say that while these changes effect the way i play the game it does not affect the botters as they just re-program/adjust their code for maximum gain and or move on to a new exploit, however the thrill or even the possibility of potentionally seeing a sellable loot as just a normal player beyond a couple of waves of mobs in an event does indeed feel very much diminished and i feel like i am being punished just because i enjoy playing a particular way...

    Meanwhile known and repeatedly reported bots are camping these same events wild and free for literally days with no one even manning them or giving a flying crap rather they are gaining anything yet instead of combating these bots that even ruin the fun of doing DEs in themselves anet has chosen to further punish me instead..

    I am still playing the game but the thrill is gone when the bot runners are winning while anet attacks a certain playstyle instead of the real problem..

    We could be watching an incredible game slowly being turned into a hunk of unfun junk..

     

     

    Playing GW2..

  • XasapisXasapis VolosPosts: 5,561Member Uncommon
    it works in other games, why not here? it would even be more casual friendly since you could pick the path that suited your current free time.

    with this implementation if you have 40 mins you're stuck doing one run and that's it. with my suggestion you could pick two easy runs or a mid difficulty.
  • xpiherxpiher Indianapolis, INPosts: 3,311Member
    Originally posted by Xasapis
    it works in other games, why not here? it would even be more casual friendly since you could pick the path that suited your current free time.

    with this implementation if you have 40 mins you're stuck doing one run and that's it. with my suggestion you could pick two easy runs or a mid difficulty.

    Other games don't care about inflation due to the fact that the best gear is only achieved through doing a dungeon x amount of times. Look at the bigger picture. 

    image
    Games:
    Currently playing:Nothing
    Will play: Darkfall: Unholy Wars
    Past games:
    Guild Wars 2 - Xpiher Duminous
    Xpiher's GW2
    GW 1 - Xpiher Duminous
    Darkfall - Xpiher Duminous (NA) retired
    AoC - Xpiher (Tyranny) retired
    Warhammer - Xpiher

  • sr7olsnipersr7olsniper Alhambra, CAPosts: 206Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by xpiher
    Originally posted by Xasapis
    it works in other games, why not here? it would even be more casual friendly since you could pick the path that suited your current free time.

    with this implementation if you have 40 mins you're stuck doing one run and that's it. with my suggestion you could pick two easy runs or a mid difficulty.

    Other games don't care about inflation due to the fact that the best gear is only achieved through doing a dungeon x amount of times. Look at the bigger picture. 

    Then that is a design flaw. Then again Anet wants you to be able to get stuff with gold because that in turn increases the chances of a gem sale. Lets be honest here thats all there is to it. I had the same problem in FFXI with farmers getting all the good spots and making the Market a nightmare for new players. That is why I enjoy WoW more than the FFXI system because I can get the best thing and not have a single cent to my name. I never have more than 10k gold on any of my chars but my main is in BIS heroic raid gear.  

    At least with a sub game they know that people won't tolerate bullshit and leave. With anet we have no recourse but to buy our own lube so our assholes don't get too stretched out from getting bent over a table at Anets will. - Hrimnir

  • DraftbeerDraftbeer SzarvasPosts: 517Member Uncommon

    Economy is already broken in GW2 - for example: materials needed to craft an item worth more

    than the actual product. No way to fix this with 'slowdowns' IMO. Bots gonna rule no matter what

    w/o a real solution. Starting to think that their goals are not even pointed to fix the economy...

  • Gaia_HunterGaia_Hunter BristolPosts: 2,828Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by xpiher

     


    Originally posted by Xasapis Or simply reward the harder paths with more rewards:
    • Path A takes 20mins? Give 20 tokens total
    • Path B takes 40mins? Give 40 tokens Path C takes 2 hours? Give 120 tokens
    That way you'd have a choice, do I do the easiest path until I get sick of it or just go for the others as well, knowing it will take more time but it'll be worth it?   They wouldn't even need to adjust the difficulty between the paths. They'd only need to adjust the challenge vs reward ratio.
    You aren't looking at the whole picture. If they increase the rewards for the harder paths, people will simply flock to those paths that give the better rewards. Its not just about people only doing 1 path and nothing else, its about crubing inflation and stopping botters. If they up rewards, botters and infaltion are still a huge issue. And no, gold sinks don't fix it either.

     

    No, they won't.

    They will stay in the easy paths.

    If the ratio keeps reward/time keeps the same, why would you do the harder paths?

    If the ratio make reward/time better for the harder paths, why would you stay on the easy path, unless they aren't PuG friendly?

    Anet did exactly that without making the items easier to obtain for hardcore guilds - guild groups can go do all the paths of a dungeon, pugs either do all the paths or get less rewards.

    Conclusion, more skillful players get more rewards for doing harder content, less skillful players get less loot compared to skillful players.

     

     

    Currently playing: GW2
    Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders

  • bunnyhopperbunnyhopper LondonPosts: 2,751Member
    Originally posted by TwoThreeFour
    Originally posted by bunnyhopper
    Originally posted by TwoThreeFour
    Originally posted by bunnyhopper
    Originally posted by TwoThreeFour
    Originally posted by Connmacart
     

     

     

     

     

    That's right, I don't think it is a good idea either to let one repeatable task give so easy gain that other tasks become pointless in relation to it. However, there are other methods to solve it, like the token change depending on path like suggested above.

    Reducing loot does not reduce freedom. You still have the option to take that method to get that loot, your rate just decreases in order that you will no longer get the loot at a rate disproportionate to every other task.

     

    Surely changing the tokens dependant upon the path falls into exactly the same line of "its against freedom" thinking you posited before? If I want to run one route over and over again, you are reducing mah freedomz if you make token change dependant upon path.

     

    "2 more for speed run of x" goes up the cry! I don't buy the whole "freedom" argument at all, it is all about people getting bent out of shape about not getting complete sets within an insanely short amount of time.

    "Come and have a look at what you could have won."

  • sr7olsnipersr7olsniper Alhambra, CAPosts: 206Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Xasapis
    it works in other games, why not here? it would even be more casual friendly since you could pick the path that suited your current free time.

    with this implementation if you have 40 mins you're stuck doing one run and that's it. with my suggestion you could pick two easy runs or a mid difficulty.

    I have to agree with you wholeheartedly. Just now I had the option of doing so in the Theramore event in WoW. While the event itself was lackluster, other Scenarios in MoP are pretty good since I have checked them out in Beta. Basically this enables players to run a 10-15 min grouped content with good rewards instead of the usually 5 man dungeons. The best part is that you can queue for both, and since scenarios can be cleared with 3 dps you get a shortened queue so you can complete it while your dungeon queue is put on hold but still matching you. That way as soon as you finish the scenario, you will get the dungeon pop up immedietly. Almost no wait time for people that like running group content, specially for DPS. I think that is a very good idea and goes in line with what y ou are saying. Have different paths or options that ht eplayer can choose with varying rewards based on the effort. In scenarios you get X amount of points and only 1 item per clear while on a dungone you get X+1 points and more chances of getting gear. If you can use that logic on GW2 I am pretty sure there wont be a lot of complainers at least as far as the Dungeons go. The whole mob farming stuff is still out of whack

     

    At least with a sub game they know that people won't tolerate bullshit and leave. With anet we have no recourse but to buy our own lube so our assholes don't get too stretched out from getting bent over a table at Anets will. - Hrimnir

  • dariuszpdariuszp PrzeworskPosts: 182Member
    Originally posted by Voiidiin

    I was a huge blind fanboy prior to release of GW2, i loved GW2 up until 2 days ago when i was basically called an exploiter by ArenaNet and penalized for playing a game they way i wanted to. 

    I like to explore, i like to do dungeons, i like PvP and WvW. I also sometimes enjoy just mindless mob grinding in an attempt to get more materials for crafting, and a bit of coin for my bank.

    Basically because of the botters and scammers in GW2, ArenaNet put in place caps to how many times you can run dungeons, how many times you can do events (no not just one all of them, meaning you run 4 events in a row thats around 30 minutes you will have your rewards removed),and how many of the same type of mob you can kill. I am not an exploiter, i did do a few dungeon runs in a row to get a few levels quicker for my personal story, but i ran them in an honest fashion.

    Because of farmers. Yes. But penalties are not big and there should be no problem with person that have some kind of life. If I remember (about grinding on mobs) you should rest around 10m every 1 hour. If you kill same mobs over and over for 1 hours without 10m break then there is clearly something wrong with you. And you should take a break from computer for a while every 45-60min anyway. It's good for your eyes. Seriously, I play same game as you and my rewards are where they should be.

    So you eather play like a dam machine or you are really farming. Anyway, start discussion on ArenaNet forum describing your activities. System is not perfect and probably they will make adjustmens. 

    IF (please read the word IF) i was to choose to just farm mobs of the same type all day long, why am i considered an exploiter (fyi i do not choose to do this activity, but i still feel i should be able to if i wanted to) ? If ArenaNet does not want us to run dungeon after dungeon why not implement lockouts ? Instead i get to join a dungeon group and maybe my cap kicks in 1/2 way through the thing.

    You can farm them but you must take a break at least every hour. It's impossible for a normal person to do one activity without a break for few hours.

    When i asked about this on the official forums i was pretty much discredited as a useless farmer and my play style is wrong. 

    I feel lied to by ArenaNet, there manifesto is all garbage, there previous interviews claiming to let the player play the way they choose is pure lies.

    Those are not lies. You are complaning because you are farming and game force 10m break on you every hour. Seriously - your parents should say THANK YOU ARENANET.

     I was not falling for hype, i loved the hell out of GW2 prior to the 9-18-12 update, i was lied to by ArenaNet based on a completely different game i played months ago.

    I played this game in beta. I played it from very first day. It's still the same game. For normal people playing for fun things didn't change. I got my rewards. Everything is fine. Problem have only people that have no idea when they should take a break or something.

    These are not minor changes to the game that comes with any MMO growth, this is a very drastic change to how anyone can play this game, and how you play the game is set forth now by ArenaNet, if i had known this was going to be like this in advance i would have told them to stick it.

    Just to be completely candid here, i never would have followed or even supported ArenaNet if i had known that a few weeks into the actual release they were going to drastically change the game. 

    Can't call it drastic. They prevented farming.  That's all they did. You have no problem when you are doing dungeons just like always. You have no problems whatever you want in the game. You have a problem when you repeat same thing (killing same type of mobs) for at least hour without break.

    I can tell you that if that things happen then you should really ask for help someone. You are addicted.

     

    I am sure i will get flames from the pre-release haters who want to rub it in my face that they were right, but in all actuality your not, GW2 was fantastic up to that update. Also, for those blind fans of the game who cannot fault it in anyway, you need to read this with the understanding I AM A HUGE FAN OF GW2, just not how it is now.

    No idea about flames or haters but you should understand that what you are doing is not normal. You need help. And if your rewards are denyed even when you normally play then write everything on ANet forum, send info to support. They will make adjustment in the system in time.

     

  • sr7olsnipersr7olsniper Alhambra, CAPosts: 206Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by bunnyhopper
    Originally posted by TwoThreeFour
    Originally posted by bunnyhopper
    Originally posted by TwoThreeFour
    Originally posted by bunnyhopper
    Originally posted by TwoThreeFour
    Originally posted by Connmacart
     

     

     

     

     

    That's right, I don't think it is a good idea either to let one repeatable task give so easy gain that other tasks become pointless in relation to it. However, there are other methods to solve it, like the token change depending on path like suggested above.

    Reducing loot does not reduce freedom. You still have the option to take that method to get that loot, your rate just decreases in order that you will no longer get the loot at a rate disproportionate to every other task.

     

    Surely changing the tokens dependant upon the path falls into exactly the same line of "its against freedom" thinking you posited before? If I want to run one route over and over again, you are reducing mah freedomz if you make token change dependant upon path.

     

    "2 more for speed run of x" goes up the cry! I don't buy the whole "freedom" argument at all, it is all about people getting bent out of shape about not getting complete sets within an insanely short amount of time.

    Yes butr you are punishing the player for doing what they like. What you should do then is buff the other rewards so that tehy are at an equal playing field and it all depends on tastes. Like I said, and this is something blizzard's have talked about extensively, while nerfing something might result in the same outcome as buffing everything else, the human psyche takes it as punishment and you get a negative reaction out of it. This is exactly what is happening now, so I am inclined to agree wiht them. The best choice wouildve been to buff the other forms of earning so that over an X amount of time they end up being the same but you can still choose which one to do at your own discretion. 

    At least with a sub game they know that people won't tolerate bullshit and leave. With anet we have no recourse but to buy our own lube so our assholes don't get too stretched out from getting bent over a table at Anets will. - Hrimnir

  • bunnyhopperbunnyhopper LondonPosts: 2,751Member
    Originally posted by Draftbeer

    Economy is already broken in GW2 - for example: materials needed to craft an item worth more

    than the actual product. No way to fix this with 'slowdowns' IMO. Bots gonna rule no matter what

    w/o a real solution. Starting to think that their goals are not even pointed to fix the economy...

    Well in fairness that is because you need the materials to actually level up crafting skills, hence they give more "benefit" then the end item and there is more demand for them.

     

    When most people have a couple of 400 crafting skills and with a decline in new players, crafting mats will depreciate for the main part.

    "Come and have a look at what you could have won."

  • xpiherxpiher Indianapolis, INPosts: 3,311Member


    Originally posted by sr7olsniper

    Originally posted by xpiher

    Originally posted by Xasapis it works in other games, why not here? it would even be more casual friendly since you could pick the path that suited your current free time. with this implementation if you have 40 mins you're stuck doing one run and that's it. with my suggestion you could pick two easy runs or a mid difficulty.
    Other games don't care about inflation due to the fact that the best gear is only achieved through doing a dungeon x amount of times. Look at the bigger picture. 
    Then that is a design flaw. Then again Anet wants you to be able to get stuff with gold because that in turn increases the chances of a gem sale. Lets be honest here thats all there is to it. I had the same problem in FFXI with farmers getting all the good spots and making the Market a nightmare for new players. That is why I enjoy WoW more than the FFXI system because I can get the best thing and not have a single cent to my name. I never have more than 10k gold on any of my chars but my main is in BIS heroic raid gear.  
    OMFG. Ok look, I'm really tired of seeing this stupid statement. ANETS busniess modle isn't realiant on the GEM story. Its a secondary revenue stream. Their primary revenue will come from future game sales. Just like GW1. ANET doesn't rent their servers, they own them, driving server cost down further. 

    Secondly, its not a design flaw that they have to worry about inflation. Its a choice. HUGE DIFFERENCE. Most people who followed GW2 longer than a year followed it for a numbre of reason; however, always high on that list was the fact that, like GW1, there woldn't be a gear grind treadmil at end game. For this to be true, max stat gear had to come from other sources. A lot of people thought that it would be almost identical to GW1, but if that was the case then craftres wouldn['t have a place in the world. So ANET did the next best thing to simply bying max stat gear, let players craft it.

    Thrid, ANET has always been about controling inflation. In GW1 prices of goods were manipulated by a few individuals that figured out they could force the game to create money by buying up all the rare material and then turn around and sell it to players or the NPC for net profit (when it was sold to NPCs, it didn't go back into circulation)/ What did ANET do? They implemented ceelings and floors on all good prices. What else did they do? Implement anti-farming code. Guess what? GW1 didn't have a cash shop at the time. 

    Nothing in the game pushes people to buy gems for gold exchange. The reason why gem prices are going up is becuase people have stopped buying them. Why? Because nearly everyone has bought all the extra stuff they needed for their characters they are currently playing. How was there a market for gems to gold then? Left over gems.

    I for one would be happy if they removed the gem to gold exchange, but I know many others wouldn't. The reason it exist isn't to drive gem sales (evident by the fact that if they don't let you buy gold directly). Its because they wanted people who didn't want to pay anything to still have a chance of getting some perphials from the gem store. If you give something for free, its likely those people will become paying customers in the future is undenyable, but its not the main reason for it. 


    Originally posted by Draftbeer Economy is already broken in GW2 - for example: materials needed to craft an item worth more than the actual product. No way to fix this with 'slowdowns' IMO. Bots gonna rule no matter what w/o a real solution. Starting to think that their goals are not even pointed to fix the economy...
     

    Is this your first time playing a themepark game at launch?

    image
    Games:
    Currently playing:Nothing
    Will play: Darkfall: Unholy Wars
    Past games:
    Guild Wars 2 - Xpiher Duminous
    Xpiher's GW2
    GW 1 - Xpiher Duminous
    Darkfall - Xpiher Duminous (NA) retired
    AoC - Xpiher (Tyranny) retired
    Warhammer - Xpiher

  • sr7olsnipersr7olsniper Alhambra, CAPosts: 206Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by dariuszp
    Originally posted by Voiidiin

    I was a huge blind fanboy prior to release of GW2, i loved GW2 up until 2 days ago when i was basically called an exploiter by ArenaNet and penalized for playing a game they way i wanted to. 

    I like to explore, i like to do dungeons, i like PvP and WvW. I also sometimes enjoy just mindless mob grinding in an attempt to get more materials for crafting, and a bit of coin for my bank.

    Basically because of the botters and scammers in GW2, ArenaNet put in place caps to how many times you can run dungeons, how many times you can do events (no not just one all of them, meaning you run 4 events in a row thats around 30 minutes you will have your rewards removed),and how many of the same type of mob you can kill. I am not an exploiter, i did do a few dungeon runs in a row to get a few levels quicker for my personal story, but i ran them in an honest fashion.

    Because of farmers. Yes. But penalties are not big and there should be no problem with person that have some kind of life. If I remember (about grinding on mobs) you should rest around 10m every 1 hour. If you kill same mobs over and over for 1 hours without 10m break then there is clearly something wrong with you. And you should take a break from computer for a while every 45-60min anyway. It's good for your eyes. Seriously, I play same game as you and my rewards are where they should be.

    So you eather play like a dam machine or you are really farming. Anyway, start discussion on ArenaNet forum describing your activities. System is not perfect and probably they will make adjustmens. 

    IF (please read the word IF) i was to choose to just farm mobs of the same type all day long, why am i considered an exploiter (fyi i do not choose to do this activity, but i still feel i should be able to if i wanted to) ? If ArenaNet does not want us to run dungeon after dungeon why not implement lockouts ? Instead i get to join a dungeon group and maybe my cap kicks in 1/2 way through the thing.

    You can farm them but you must take a break at least every hour. It's impossible for a normal person to do one activity without a break for few hours.

    When i asked about this on the official forums i was pretty much discredited as a useless farmer and my play style is wrong. 

    I feel lied to by ArenaNet, there manifesto is all garbage, there previous interviews claiming to let the player play the way they choose is pure lies.

    Those are not lies. You are complaning because you are farming and game force 10m break on you every hour. Seriously - your parents should say THANK YOU ARENANET.

     I was not falling for hype, i loved the hell out of GW2 prior to the 9-18-12 update, i was lied to by ArenaNet based on a completely different game i played months ago.

    I played this game in beta. I played it from very first day. It's still the same game. For normal people playing for fun things didn't change. I got my rewards. Everything is fine. Problem have only people that have no idea when they should take a break or something.

    These are not minor changes to the game that comes with any MMO growth, this is a very drastic change to how anyone can play this game, and how you play the game is set forth now by ArenaNet, if i had known this was going to be like this in advance i would have told them to stick it.

    Just to be completely candid here, i never would have followed or even supported ArenaNet if i had known that a few weeks into the actual release they were going to drastically change the game. 

    Can't call it drastic. They prevented farming.  That's all they did. You have no problem when you are doing dungeons just like always. You have no problems whatever you want in the game. You have a problem when you repeat same thing (killing same type of mobs) for at least hour without break.

    I can tell you that if that things happen then you should really ask for help someone. You are addicted.

     

    I am sure i will get flames from the pre-release haters who want to rub it in my face that they were right, but in all actuality your not, GW2 was fantastic up to that update. Also, for those blind fans of the game who cannot fault it in anyway, you need to read this with the understanding I AM A HUGE FAN OF GW2, just not how it is now.

    No idea about flames or haters but you should understand that what you are doing is not normal. You need help. And if your rewards are denyed even when you normally play then write everything on ANet forum, send info to support. They will make adjustment in the system in time.

     

    yes because Anet is god and GW2 is the best thing since sliced bread. Dude chillax, people are allowed to play however they want to play and if they want to farm for hours on end as long as it doenst violate the EULA they are in their right to do so. Claiming someone has no life, or has issues if they are playing too much is not only retarded on your part but also makes your entire post garbage. The methods in question have not prevented farming since it is still rampant, however it has also affeceted the players as you can see from the record of this thread. YOu either add constructive critisism or add some depth into the conversation or you might as well stfu, just saying. 

    At least with a sub game they know that people won't tolerate bullshit and leave. With anet we have no recourse but to buy our own lube so our assholes don't get too stretched out from getting bent over a table at Anets will. - Hrimnir

  • bunnyhopperbunnyhopper LondonPosts: 2,751Member
    Originally posted by sr7olsniper
    Originally posted by bunnyhopper
    Originally posted by TwoThreeFour
    Originally posted by bunnyhopper
    Originally posted by TwoThreeFour
    Originally posted by bunnyhopper
    Originally posted by TwoThreeFour
    Originally posted by Connmacart
     

     

     

     

    Yes butr you are punishing the player for doing what they like. What you should do then is buff the other rewards so that tehy are at an equal playing field and it all depends on tastes. Like I said, and this is something blizzard's have talked about extensively, while nerfing something might result in the same outcome as buffing everything else, the human psyche takes it as punishment and you get a negative reaction out of it. This is exactly what is happening now, so I am inclined to agree wiht them. The best choice wouildve been to buff the other forms of earning so that over an X amount of time they end up being the same but you can still choose which one to do at your own discretion. 

    You are not punishing the player for doing what they like at all. You are preventing players from specifically steaming through exactly the same content as quickly as possible for the express purpose of gaining end game gear (probably) far faster then ANET ever intended (as demonstrated by the change).

     

    If one method is giving out rewards at an insane rate, you do not bolster everything else to also give out rewards at a crazy arsed rate as well. You temper the feature which is giving out rewards at a faster then warranted rate.

    "Come and have a look at what you could have won."

  • Caliburn101Caliburn101 LondonPosts: 636Member
    Originally posted by PieRad
    Originally posted by Caliburn101
    Originally posted by AvatarBlade
    Haven't done a lot of farming or DEs latley, but as far as explorable goes, more tokens for harder paths than for easy ones would be a way better solution. Don't mind it getting less token for running the same path only, but I did 2 of them in Arah yesterday. One has 2 champion fights and 2 boss fights, which took like 1.5-2h to complete. The second one had 1 champion fight and 5 boss fights, took like 4h to complete, yet gave the same ammount of tokens. Sure it was rewarding to finish that hard path, but it still felt that you should get a bit more tokens for completing it.

    Yeah the queues of flaming armour geared hardcores outside of CoF doing the same run all day is testament to this. I've done the run three times and am now bored of it.

    The fact I want the flame weapons for transforms means I will be running  the dungeon some more, but I am getting tired of being forced, when I am pugging, to do the same run ad nauseam because the gear looks good and everyone wants it as fast as possible becuase it is level 75 and not something they regard as endgame (aka get through it ASAP) - I want to do the other wings of the dugeon and this imbalance is spoiling my enjoyment and  the enjoyment of others I know trying to enjoy the rich extent of the game - not wallowing in the farming hotspots doing the same thing again and again....

    ....the little-discussed flip side to the leetist desires and negative collateral effects of the 'I want it all and I want it now' crowd.

    Sounds like you're jealous?

    I mean, those of us who put the time and effort into getting it fast, deserves it, don't we? We play however we like, and we don't talk bad about you, so why do you feel the need to talk trash about us?

    What is the negative collateral effect from me getting all the pieces fast? Does it hurt you in any way?

    Not trying to start a war here, I'm just curious.

    The problem has been a fairly obvious one since MMO's began - it's the solution that has eluded designers....

    Accusations of jealousy are just lazy - so I'll treat that with the *sigh* it deserves.

    Onto the meat of the issue however;

    I want to get some kit from CoF; I can't guild group run it all the time and so I pug. But pugging means I am restricted exclusively to the damn spam run in explorable and I am not enjoying that content anymore. I could do what the majority have done and bypass it for the level 80 dungeons and their greater rewards, but I want the look of the weapons because it goes bests with my culture gear - also chosen for appearace not stats.

    It is not the choice of the run-spammers which is actually the root cause of the problem - it's the fact the run is too easy and too fast for consistently high reward. The spammers are just scratching the spot until it bleeds....

    Spammers always complain about restrictions on choice and then go and throw themselves into the same repetitive miminum effort/maximum reward repetition cycle - using the loudly defended 'we want a variety of choice' arguement  to then go and choose to play the minimum variety of content.... counterintuitive to say the least.

    The flipside of this is the 'casuals' who want everything on a plate and no advantage for the 'no-lifers'. 'I pay the same so I should get the same', 'time chained to your computer doesn't equal skill'.... blah blah the same old points regurgitated....

    Take you're pick - they are both 'wrong' in my opinion - it's just the 24/7 players are more vocal due to having the time to spam forums :) ....

    ... anyway, where was I.... ah yes - I want a balance - maximum content accessibility with just a reasonable diminishing returns brake on content spamming so a more balanced game economy and less adversarial, leetist... call it what you like, vibe is to be had all round.

    I have my full Ravagers Set, all the accessories I wanted for dungeons and most for soloing. I have the full culture set for appearance. I just want to get the flame weapons whilst having some fun just for the looks.... already got better weapons equiped stat-wise.

    But bugger me if I can find a pug-group for anything else but that bloody same explorable run every time!

    I don't craft much - but I do understand the undeniable mathematics behind the economic arguement for balance - it's as plain as the nose on my face.

    It is simply not tenable to have a parallel line between reward and time played when the source of reward is infinite due to endless respawns - it ruins games in ways, if we MMO veterans are all honest with ourselves, we all know about. ANet just needs to get the counterbalance system better tuned and fairer for all concerned.

     

  • RaekonRaekon AugsburgPosts: 553Member
    Originally posted by Xasapis
    Originally posted by Connmacart
    People, step back and realise what you are whining about. You are whining about not getting a virtual item as fast as before. This is what is wrong with todays MMOs. It's not the MMOs that are the problem it is the people playing them. Like in evolution learn to adapt or die a slow painful death.

    No, it's about promising a game with a certain hype mechanism, presenting the game and then altering the game once you have the customer money. It's about changing the game in an unreasonable fashion because the cash shop bottom line is getting a hit compared to the previous week.

    • People play too much. That needs to stop, they should play in smalller intervals and spread their time around in tons of activities so not so many servers are needed and those who are there are not strained.
    • People should not get too much gold in-game. Any money making activity is getting nerfed (dungeon runs and material selling being the prime suspects). It seems WvW is not making much gold for now, the siege equipment burn the gold that is produced in the battlegrounds.
    It's not the people who are the problem in this case. Noone complained about the absurd token grind that is needed for dungeon gear. Yet developers changed that part and hurt legit playing gamers, not bots and not farmers. And that's why people are complaining.

    You know what I find very amusing on your post?

    You were the one to post the notes in this posting that are showcasing that one is indeed able to run the dungeons over and over with the only limitation that IF one manages to finish them in less than 30 minutes, they will be able to run them only twice and then have to take a pause for a while.

    The fact that its a limitation based on time, showcases that its a anti-bot system that isn't implemented to take away from the player but rather clean the game from botters that are bad for the game AND the player itself.

    Now you come back and showcase that you didn't even understood what the notes you posted were saying, claiming that it has to do with the servers and gold making, ignoring the fact that tons of activities in the game can make you gold easily.

    Very contradicting to say the least.

  • lifeordinarylifeordinary AgadirPosts: 646Member
    Originally posted by xpiher

     


    Originally posted by sr7olsniper

    Originally posted by xpiher

    Originally posted by Xasapis it works in other games, why not here? it would even be more casual friendly since you could pick the path that suited your current free time. with this implementation if you have 40 mins you're stuck doing one run and that's it. with my suggestion you could pick two easy runs or a mid difficulty.
    Other games don't care about inflation due to the fact that the best gear is only achieved through doing a dungeon x amount of times. Look at the bigger picture. 
    Then that is a design flaw. Then again Anet wants you to be able to get stuff with gold because that in turn increases the chances of a gem sale. Lets be honest here thats all there is to it. I had the same problem in FFXI with farmers getting all the good spots and making the Market a nightmare for new players. That is why I enjoy WoW more than the FFXI system because I can get the best thing and not have a single cent to my name. I never have more than 10k gold on any of my chars but my main is in BIS heroic raid gear.  
    OMFG. Ok look, I'm really tired of seeing this stupid statement. ANETS busniess modle isn't realiant on the GEM story. Its a secondary revenue stream. Their primary revenue will come from future game sales. Just like GW1. ANET doesn't rent their servers, they own them, driving server cost down further. 

     

     

    Well..i am glad that Anet's invites you to all of its internal meetings and lets you know all the FACTS so that you can communicate with us.

    Thanks once again for credible information. You have a twitter i can follow for future information?

  • sr7olsnipersr7olsniper Alhambra, CAPosts: 206Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by bunnyhopper
    Originally posted by sr7olsniper
    Originally posted by bunnyhopper
    Originally posted by TwoThreeFour
    Originally posted by bunnyhopper
    Originally posted by TwoThreeFour
    Originally posted by bunnyhopper
    Originally posted by TwoThreeFour
    Originally posted by Connmacart
     

     

     

     

    Yes butr you are punishing the player for doing what they like. What you should do then is buff the other rewards so that tehy are at an equal playing field and it all depends on tastes. Like I said, and this is something blizzard's have talked about extensively, while nerfing something might result in the same outcome as buffing everything else, the human psyche takes it as punishment and you get a negative reaction out of it. This is exactly what is happening now, so I am inclined to agree wiht them. The best choice wouildve been to buff the other forms of earning so that over an X amount of time they end up being the same but you can still choose which one to do at your own discretion. 

    You are not punishing the player for doing what they like at all. You are "punishing" players for specifically steaming through exactly the same content as quickly as possible for the express purpose of gaining end game gear (probably) far faster then ANET ever intended (as demonstrated by the change).

     

    If one method is giving out rewards at an insane rate, you do not bolster everything else to also give out rewards at a crazy arsed rate as well. You temper the feature which is giving out rewards at a faster then warranted rate.

    Here is the thing though, that is why you implement a cap. YOu let the people that want to clear stuff fast do it and let the slower folk do it too at their own pace, ultimately everyone will advance at the same time if that is really want Anet was going for. They didnt do that, however, what they did was basically punish you for running something too fast. Which is the whole point of this thread as far as DEs and Dungeons go. If the reward is "overpoweredly" good then it obviously needs some tweaking but you tweak the base numbers not punish the player. So lets say you get 40 points for runing dungeon A on Path X, and this is obsenely wrong compared to other methods. What you do then is decrese the points for that particual method by an ammount that evens out in X ammount of time compared to other forms of enjoyment. They havnt done that thouhg, What they have done is basically punished the speed runners for being just that, enjoying speed runs. Which, again, is the main focus of the thread. They are forcing you to play THEIR way or the highway pretty much, even thought it goes against their manifesto. Let me put it this way, if you have a Boss in a raid and the developers have invisioned the players to kill it an X way but somehow the playerbase found a new and compeltely different way to kill the boss that doenst involve an exploit then taht is a good thing. You dont go and punish the players for having fun and discovering new things on YOUR game. That is what happens in wow (I know its taboo topic but its very relevant to this point); the devs have said time and time again that sometimes they think players will kill a boss in 1 way but the players then do a 180 and kill them another way. It is a fun thing to do to deviate from the norm and it something Anet is not doing at the moment. Like I said in a previous post it is bordering on North Korean territory

    At least with a sub game they know that people won't tolerate bullshit and leave. With anet we have no recourse but to buy our own lube so our assholes don't get too stretched out from getting bent over a table at Anets will. - Hrimnir

  • Loke666Loke666 MalmöPosts: 18,019Member Uncommon

    I have to agree that farming a certain kind of mobs is not exploiting, It is not particularly funny or anything but mob farming have been a part of the genre since Meridian 59. 

    I dont really see the need for these measures.

    The dungeon on the other hand does not seem unfair to me, many MMOs lock their dungeons for a certain time after you done them for the same reasons.

    But I miss Jeff Strain a lot, he had a more cool view on stuff like this.

    Not that any of this will have much effect on me, but it do makes me wonder about Gendarran fields that have so much centaurs, maybe it is possible to get issues while just playing there.

  • xpiherxpiher Indianapolis, INPosts: 3,311Member
    Originally posted by lifeordinary
    Originally posted by xpiher

     


    Originally posted by sr7olsniper

    Originally posted by xpiher

    Originally posted by Xasapis it works in other games, why not here? it would even be more casual friendly since you could pick the path that suited your current free time. with this implementation if you have 40 mins you're stuck doing one run and that's it. with my suggestion you could pick two easy runs or a mid difficulty.
    Other games don't care about inflation due to the fact that the best gear is only achieved through doing a dungeon x amount of times. Look at the bigger picture. 
    Then that is a design flaw. Then again Anet wants you to be able to get stuff with gold because that in turn increases the chances of a gem sale. Lets be honest here thats all there is to it. I had the same problem in FFXI with farmers getting all the good spots and making the Market a nightmare for new players. That is why I enjoy WoW more than the FFXI system because I can get the best thing and not have a single cent to my name. I never have more than 10k gold on any of my chars but my main is in BIS heroic raid gear.  
    OMFG. Ok look, I'm really tired of seeing this stupid statement. ANETS busniess modle isn't realiant on the GEM story. Its a secondary revenue stream. Their primary revenue will come from future game sales. Just like GW1. ANET doesn't rent their servers, they own them, driving server cost down further. 

     

     

    Well..i am glad that Anet's invites you to all of its internal meetings and lets you know all the FACTS so that you can communicate with us.

    Thanks once again for credible information. You have a twitter i can follow for future information?

    You can tell this by the fact that the gem store simply SUCKS. Theres nothing in there, other than bank space, that the would tempt the vast majority of the player base into buying. It doesn't even have the slew of town clothes, costumes, minipets, etc that you would expect a F2P cash shop driven game to have. It doesn't sell you the ability to respec your character (common in item mall only games), etc. 

    image
    Games:
    Currently playing:Nothing
    Will play: Darkfall: Unholy Wars
    Past games:
    Guild Wars 2 - Xpiher Duminous
    Xpiher's GW2
    GW 1 - Xpiher Duminous
    Darkfall - Xpiher Duminous (NA) retired
    AoC - Xpiher (Tyranny) retired
    Warhammer - Xpiher

  • tyrannistyrannis Norcross, GAPosts: 198Member

    "I was a huge blind fanboy prior to release of GW2"

    Tell you what. Uninstall it and move on. Problem solved.

    ##Best SWTOR of 2011
    Posted by I_Return - SWTOR - "Forget the UI the characters and all ofhe nitpicking bullshit" "Greatest MMO Ever Created"

    ##Fail Thread Title of 2011
    Originally posted by daveospice
    "this game looks like crap?"

  • Gaia_HunterGaia_Hunter BristolPosts: 2,828Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by sr7olsniper

    Here is the thing though, that is why you implement a cap. YOu let the people that want to clear stuff fast do it and let the slower folk do it too at their own pace, ultimately everyone will advance at the same time if that is really want Anet was going for. They didnt do that, however, what they did was basically punish you for running something too fast. Which is the whole point of this thread as far as DEs and Dungeons go. If the reward is "overpoweredly" good then it obviously needs some tweaking but you tweak the base numbers not punish the player. So lets say you get 40 points for runing dungeon A on Path X, and this is obsenely wrong compared to other methods. What you do then is decrese the points for that particual method by an ammount that evens out in X ammount of time compared to other forms of enjoyment. They havnt done that thouhg, What they have done is basically punished the speed runners for being just that, enjoying speed runs. Which, again, is the main focus of the thread. They are forcing you to play THEIR way or the highway pretty much, even thought it goes against their manifesto. Let me put it this way, if you have a Boss in a raid and the developers have invisioned the players to kill it an X way but somehow the playerbase found a new and compeltely different way to kill the boss that doenst involve an exploit then taht is a good thing. You dont go and punish the players for having fun and discovering new things on YOUR game. That is what happens in wow (I know its taboo topic but its very relevant to this point); the devs have said time and time again that sometimes they think players will kill a boss in 1 way but the players then do a 180 and kill them another way. It is a fun thing to do to deviate from the norm and it something Anet is not doing at the moment. Like I said in a previous post it is bordering on North Korean territory

    They didnt punish speed runners.

    They punish speed runners that do the same dungeon path over and over and over,.

    If having less loot per hour is a punishment, then people doing any path but the one that gives better reward/hour is being punished by trying stuff that isn't the most optimal.

    Unless loot isn't a reward and people just run the same path over and over and over for fun, and so they didn't get punished at all.

    Currently playing: GW2
    Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders

  • VoiidiinVoiidiin Barrow, AKPosts: 817Member
    Originally posted by Raekon
    Originally posted by Voiidiin
    Originally posted by Nadia
    Originally posted by Voiidiin
    Originally posted by Scalpless
     for dungeons, you can run them as often as you want, as long as you don't just run the same path of the same dungeon over and over again.

    You are wrong about dungeons, after running TA then CM story, i went to AC and was capped.

    the cap is based on how fast you complete them

    http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/365276/ANET-commentary-on-patched-dungeons.html

    If you speed clear dungeons at a rate of more than 2/ hour, and continue to do that for some time your rewards will slowly begin to degrade. It doesn't kick in after running a single dungeon and it doesn't immediately zero out rewards.

     

    Sure thats fine, dungeons were really not my main gripe it was the arbitrary caps they placed on DEs and Mob killing/rewards.

    Its pretty clear you guys are only picking portions of my OP to suit your view of the game, its the whole update they released that basically makes players play only a specific way when it comes to the PvE.

    As i have already said, i am a big fan of GW2, this update has soured me on it though. 

     

    Were you one of the guys that were indeed botting so the patch gave you a restriction upon it?

    Just asking cause you are coming across that way.

     

    This is just plain inflammatory, and an attempt to try and marginalize my view on the changes made to the game. Did i say something to insult you in anyway, shape, or form ?

    NO.

    Where in all that i have posted in this entire thread have i ever given the impression i was a botter ? You are simply trying to turn a discussion of game changes into a flame war and you should be ashamed at the your words you typed. 

    Because i want to get materials for my crafting professions for me and my son you attempt to label me as a illegal player who is considered substandard to others, all because you disagree with how i view the recent changes ArenaNet made to the game.

    I will not argue with you about the rest of your post because it only feeds into your incendiary attitude towards others who do not conform to your way of thinking. It's your opinion and you are very welcome to it.

    If you want to have an intelligent discussion about this subject (the game update not your attempt to belittle me) i will gladly discuss it with you, otherwise i would ask you try and keep personal attacks out of a very nice thread where actual players have been actually discussing something they feel passionate about.

     

    Good day sir.

    Lolipops !

  • Caliburn101Caliburn101 LondonPosts: 636Member
    Originally posted by lifeordinary
    OMFG. Ok look, I'm really tired of seeing this stupid statement. ANETS busniess modle isn't realiant on the GEM story. Its a secondary revenue stream. Their primary revenue will come from future game sales. Just like GW1. ANET doesn't rent their servers, they own them, driving server cost down further. 

     

     

    Well..i am glad that Anet's invites you to all of its internal meetings and lets you know all the FACTS so that you can communicate with us.

    Thanks once again for credible information. You have a twitter i can follow for future information?

    Actually - having brought up the 'gem store' arguement without any supporting evidence, you can't credibly complain that others critique your position without evidence of their own.

    .... and it certainly does'nt justify you claiming someone else is an ANet stooge just because they disagree with you.

    Actually, there is no evidence I can see that the gem store works the way you claim and that diminishing returns encourages greater uptake if its pixel-products.

    None....

    That's for you to prove as you opened the door on this line of thinking.

    Can you?

This discussion has been closed.