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Note on the Leaving of Bioware Co-Founders

stratasaurusstratasaurus Seattle, WAPosts: 220Member
I have heard a lot of people say "who care F those sellouts they just sold for money" and just wanted to comment really quick.  First off I don't think anyone knows why they sold.  Sure it could of been for the money but also just of easily could of been because Video Games are getting more expensive to make and they didn't have the capital to make the games they wanted to make.  Here comes EA who says hey you can make a ton of money and have access to alot more capital to make the games you want to make, the way you want to make.  The old "we are silent partner" scam who then becomes not such a silent partner.  Anyways it could of been all about selling out or maybe not we don't know but I think it is kind of childish to say "You deserved to fail" without knowing what really happened.  I personally wish them both the best and hope that they return to the video game industry one day(My money is on them leaving because of a no-compete clause).

Comments

  • BrenelaelBrenelael Warren, MEPosts: 3,996Member

    They knew what they were getting into when they decided to get in bed with EA. Even a complete moron can see the trail of broken and destroyed game companies EA has left in their wake so I'm sure a couple of people with Doctorates could have seen it as well. EA buys companies and either absorbs them like the freaking Borg or outrite destroys them. They have had a flawless track record of destruction so far so Bioware will be no different and these guys knew this before they sold out.

     

    "WE ARE EA!... RESISTANCE IS FUTILE!... YOU WILL BE ASSIMILATED!... YOUR PRODUCTS WILL BE ABSORBED INTO OUR COLLECTIVE!... WE ARE EA!... RESISTANCE IS FUTILE!... "

     

    Bren

    while(horse==dead)
    {
    beat();
    }

  • KostKost Vancouver, BCPosts: 1,975Member
    Originally posted by Brenelael

    They new what they were getting into when they decided to get in bed with EA. Even a complete moron can see the trail of broken and destroyed game companies EA has left in their wake so I'm sure a couple of people with Doctorates could have seen it as well. EA buys companies and either absorbs them like the freaking Borg or outrite destroys them. They have had a flawless track record of destruction so far so Bioware will be no different and these guys knew this before they sold out.

     

    Bren

    Are you even able to fathom just how absurd your statement is?

    Complete moron? Whoa there pal, glass houses.
  • BrenelaelBrenelael Warren, MEPosts: 3,996Member
    Originally posted by Kost
    Originally posted by Brenelael

    They new what they were getting into when they decided to get in bed with EA. Even a complete moron can see the trail of broken and destroyed game companies EA has left in their wake so I'm sure a couple of people with Doctorates could have seen it as well. EA buys companies and either absorbs them like the freaking Borg or outrite destroys them. They have had a flawless track record of destruction so far so Bioware will be no different and these guys knew this before they sold out.

     

    Bren

    Are you even able to fathom just how absurd your statement is?

    Complete moron? Whoa there pal, glass houses.

    Did I call you or anyone a moron? No... Simmer down there Sparky. Don't take my word for it go and look it up for yourself. There have been at least 2 dozen game companies or more that EA has either absorbed or destroyed on their quest for complete market domination. Not one is a viable game company today. They are nothing more than names EA puts on their packages to give us gamers a warm fuzzy feeling inside. Sorry, but I refuse to drink the EA Kool-Aid.

     

    Bren

    while(horse==dead)
    {
    beat();
    }

  • ScorchienScorchien Hatboro, PAPosts: 1,344Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Kost
    Originally posted by Brenelael

    They new what they were getting into when they decided to get in bed with EA. Even a complete moron can see the trail of broken and destroyed game companies EA has left in their wake so I'm sure a couple of people with Doctorates could have seen it as well. EA buys companies and either absorbs them like the freaking Borg or outrite destroys them. They have had a flawless track record of destruction so far so Bioware will be no different and these guys knew this before they sold out.

     

    Bren

    Are you even able to fathom just how absurd your statement is?

    Complete moron? Whoa there pal, glass houses.

      His Statement is Dead-On exactly 100% correct

  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    Even if you need the capital, I reckon you are.better off doing a deal with just about every publisher apart from ea.

    Ea has destroyed more good dev teams than any other publisher. To think it won't happen to you is arrogant.
  • KostKost Vancouver, BCPosts: 1,975Member
    Originally posted by Scorchien
    Originally posted by Kost
    Originally posted by Brenelael

    They new what they were getting into when they decided to get in bed with EA. Even a complete moron can see the trail of broken and destroyed game companies EA has left in their wake so I'm sure a couple of people with Doctorates could have seen it as well. EA buys companies and either absorbs them like the freaking Borg or outrite destroys them. They have had a flawless track record of destruction so far so Bioware will be no different and these guys knew this before they sold out.

     

    Bren

    Are you even able to fathom just how absurd your statement is?

    Complete moron? Whoa there pal, glass houses.

      His Statement is Dead-On exactly 100% correct

    No, it isn't.

    You both need to take the time to educate yourselves before chiming in any further.

  • BrenelaelBrenelael Warren, MEPosts: 3,996Member
    Originally posted by Kost
    Originally posted by Scorchien
    Originally posted by Kost
    Originally posted by Brenelael

    They new what they were getting into when they decided to get in bed with EA. Even a complete moron can see the trail of broken and destroyed game companies EA has left in their wake so I'm sure a couple of people with Doctorates could have seen it as well. EA buys companies and either absorbs them like the freaking Borg or outrite destroys them. They have had a flawless track record of destruction so far so Bioware will be no different and these guys knew this before they sold out.

     

    Bren

    Are you even able to fathom just how absurd your statement is?

    Complete moron? Whoa there pal, glass houses.

      His Statement is Dead-On exactly 100% correct

    No, it isn't.

    You both need to take the time to educate yourselves before chiming in any further.

    Care to share your knowledge on the subject instead of just making blanket statements? If you think I'm wrong I would argue that it is you that needs educating.

     

    Bren

    while(horse==dead)
    {
    beat();
    }

  • XzenXzen Los Alamos, NMPosts: 2,607Member Common
    Originally posted by Kost
    Originally posted by Scorchien
    Originally posted by Kost
    Originally posted by Brenelael

    They new what they were getting into when they decided to get in bed with EA. Even a complete moron can see the trail of broken and destroyed game companies EA has left in their wake so I'm sure a couple of people with Doctorates could have seen it as well. EA buys companies and either absorbs them like the freaking Borg or outrite destroys them. They have had a flawless track record of destruction so far so Bioware will be no different and these guys knew this before they sold out.

     

    Bren

    Are you even able to fathom just how absurd your statement is?

    Complete moron? Whoa there pal, glass houses.

      His Statement is Dead-On exactly 100% correct

    No, it isn't.

    You both need to take the time to educate yourselves before chiming in any further.

    Some one will post you a nice list of all the dead game studios shortly I'm sure.

  • KostKost Vancouver, BCPosts: 1,975Member
    Originally posted by Brenelael
    Originally posted by Kost
    Originally posted by Brenelael

    They new what they were getting into when they decided to get in bed with EA. Even a complete moron can see the trail of broken and destroyed game companies EA has left in their wake so I'm sure a couple of people with Doctorates could have seen it as well. EA buys companies and either absorbs them like the freaking Borg or outrite destroys them. They have had a flawless track record of destruction so far so Bioware will be no different and these guys knew this before they sold out.

     

    Bren

    Are you even able to fathom just how absurd your statement is?

    Complete moron? Whoa there pal, glass houses.

    Did I call you or anyone a moron? No... Simmer down there Sparky. Don't take my word for it go and look it up for yourself. There have been at least 2 dozen game companies or more that EA has either absorbed or destroyed on their quest for complete market domination. Not one is a viable game company today. They are nothing more than names EA puts on their packages to give us gamers a warm fuzzy feeling inside. Sorry, but I refuse to drink the EA Kool-Aid.

     

    Bren

    I never implied that you called anyone specific a moron.

    The glass houses comment was aimed at you having the gall to make an off the cuff remark about other individuals being "complete morons" when it is painfully obvious that you're not exactly a bastion of intelligence yourself.

    I am well aware of EA's history over the last decade, I never called that into question.

    Your blatant ignorance in regard to how the founders of the Bioware handled getting in bed with EA is just that though: ignorant and inaccurate. If you think they willingly threw away the future of the company you really need a reality check, people like you spreading misinformation and calling it fact are exactly what this site doesn't need.

  • KostKost Vancouver, BCPosts: 1,975Member
    Originally posted by Xzen
    Originally posted by Kost
    Originally posted by Scorchien
    Originally posted by Kost
    Originally posted by Brenelael

    They new what they were getting into when they decided to get in bed with EA. Even a complete moron can see the trail of broken and destroyed game companies EA has left in their wake so I'm sure a couple of people with Doctorates could have seen it as well. EA buys companies and either absorbs them like the freaking Borg or outrite destroys them. They have had a flawless track record of destruction so far so Bioware will be no different and these guys knew this before they sold out.

     

    Bren

    Are you even able to fathom just how absurd your statement is?

    Complete moron? Whoa there pal, glass houses.

      His Statement is Dead-On exactly 100% correct

    No, it isn't.

    You both need to take the time to educate yourselves before chiming in any further.

    Some one will post you a nice list of all the dead game studios shortly I'm sure.

    Which proves what?

    That it's common knowledge that EA ruins companies these days? Nobody ever questioned that.

    Comprehension and reading skills in this thread from you lot are sorely lacking. Try rereading everything in this thread that I've written, very, very slowly...

  • SlampigSlampig Chantilly, VAPosts: 2,376Member Uncommon
    Who cares? You people act like everything is some type of conspiracy, are people not allowed to call it a day?

    That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!

  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    Kost, all they had to do was look at their predecessors, all well thought of game companies before they joined the EA hive mind.

    Mythic
    Firaxis
    Westwood
    Bullfrog - arguably more highly regarded than bioware
    Maxis
    Origin

    Etc.. probably some I missed
  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    So bioware were either stupid OR arrogant and thought "hey won't happen to us we're bigger than that, we ain't no bullfrog or origin"
  • YamotaYamota LondonPosts: 6,620Member

    Ofcourse they did it for the money, how can their be any doubt about it? They were full aware of what would happen when being assimilated into EA but they didnt care because they were looking at all those zeroes in the check they would be getting.

    Now Bioware is finished, like so many other companies EA has bought and destroyed.

  • BrenelaelBrenelael Warren, MEPosts: 3,996Member
    Originally posted by Kost
    Originally posted by Brenelael
    Originally posted by Kost
    Originally posted by Brenelael

    They new what they were getting into when they decided to get in bed with EA. Even a complete moron can see the trail of broken and destroyed game companies EA has left in their wake so I'm sure a couple of people with Doctorates could have seen it as well. EA buys companies and either absorbs them like the freaking Borg or outrite destroys them. They have had a flawless track record of destruction so far so Bioware will be no different and these guys knew this before they sold out.

     

    Bren

    Are you even able to fathom just how absurd your statement is?

    Complete moron? Whoa there pal, glass houses.

    Did I call you or anyone a moron? No... Simmer down there Sparky. Don't take my word for it go and look it up for yourself. There have been at least 2 dozen game companies or more that EA has either absorbed or destroyed on their quest for complete market domination. Not one is a viable game company today. They are nothing more than names EA puts on their packages to give us gamers a warm fuzzy feeling inside. Sorry, but I refuse to drink the EA Kool-Aid.

     

    Bren

    I never implied that you called anyone specific a moron.

    The glass houses comment was aimed at you having the gall to make an off the cuff remark about other individuals being "complete morons" when it is painfully obvious that you're not exactly a bastion of intelligence yourself.

    I am well aware of EA's history over the last decade, I never called that into question.

    Your blatant ignorance in regard to how the founders of the Bioware handled getting in bed with EA is just that though: ignorant and inaccurate. If you think they willingly threw away the future of the company you really need a reality check, people like you spreading misinformation and calling it fact are exactly what this site doesn't need.

    I never gave any reason as to why they did it. Not even hinted at it once. The only statement I made is you'd have to be a complete moron to think you are going to come out of any business deal with EA with an intact company. I also stated that these guys are Doctors so they are not morons or I implied to that fact. You are reading a lot into what I've stated that simply isn't there. Maybe you should take off the EA/Bioware Rose Tinted glasses so you can see the situation a little more clearly. Until you do arguing with you is pointless.

     

    Bren

    while(horse==dead)
    {
    beat();
    }

  • XzenXzen Los Alamos, NMPosts: 2,607Member Common
    Originally posted by Kost
    Originally posted by Xzen
    Originally posted by Kost
    Originally posted by Scorchien
    Originally posted by Kost
    Originally posted by Brenelael

    They new what they were getting into when they decided to get in bed with EA. Even a complete moron can see the trail of broken and destroyed game companies EA has left in their wake so I'm sure a couple of people with Doctorates could have seen it as well. EA buys companies and either absorbs them like the freaking Borg or outrite destroys them. They have had a flawless track record of destruction so far so Bioware will be no different and these guys knew this before they sold out.

     

    Bren

    Are you even able to fathom just how absurd your statement is?

    Complete moron? Whoa there pal, glass houses.

      His Statement is Dead-On exactly 100% correct

    No, it isn't.

    You both need to take the time to educate yourselves before chiming in any further.

    Some one will post you a nice list of all the dead game studios shortly I'm sure.

    Which proves what?

    That it's common knowledge that EA ruins companies these days? Nobody ever questioned that.

    Comprehension and reading skills in this thread from you lot are sorely lacking. Try rereading everything in this thread that I've written, very, very slowly...

    Posted before you clarified the point you were trying to make.

  • Kaijin2k3Kaijin2k3 Santa Monica, CAPosts: 558Member

    EA didn't go to BioWare directly and court them. Instead they went to BioWare's parent company VG Holding Corp, which also owned Pandemic.

    Through the Elevated Partners equity firm, they purchased VG Holding Corp and gained control of both BIoWare and Pandemic.

    On a side note, one of the founders of Elevation Partners was John Riccitiello, which you will now know to be EA's CEO. He personally gained from the sale, although nothing illegal was reportedly done.

     

    Additionally (I didn't know this until I started looking into it), John Riccitiello was at one time the CEO of VG Holdings Corp, so I guess it was quite the small world. The person that replaced him when Riccitiello resigned as CEO was  Greg Richardson.

    The only unknown I have is who else were the major players in VG Holding Corp? I can't find any info that, so if anyone has a source I'd be most obliged.

     

    My source? Gamasutra for both. 

    Breaking: Electronic Arts Acquires BioWare, Pandemic

    and

    Greg Richardson Promoted To VG Holding CEO 

     

    Though there's many more articles on this, if any of you would care to google some more ^^

  • ReklawReklaw Am.Posts: 6,478Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Kost
    Originally posted by Scorchien
    Originally posted by Kost
    Originally posted by Brenelael

    They new what they were getting into when they decided to get in bed with EA. Even a complete moron can see the trail of broken and destroyed game companies EA has left in their wake so I'm sure a couple of people with Doctorates could have seen it as well. EA buys companies and either absorbs them like the freaking Borg or outrite destroys them. They have had a flawless track record of destruction so far so Bioware will be no different and these guys knew this before they sold out.

     

    Bren

    Are you even able to fathom just how absurd your statement is?

    Complete moron? Whoa there pal, glass houses.

      His Statement is Dead-On exactly 100% correct

    No, it isn't.

    You both need to take the time to educate yourselves before chiming in any further.

    Defunct

    • Original HQ in San Mateo, California, moved to Redwood City in 1998.
    • Origin Systems in Austin, Texas founded in 1983, acquired in 1992, closed in 2004.
    • Bullfrog Productions in Surrey, England, founded in 1987, acquired in 1995, merged with EA UK and effectively closed in 2001.
    • EA Baltimore in Baltimore, Maryland, established in 1996 as part of Origin, closed in 2000
    • EA Seattle in Seattle, Washington, founded in 1982 as Manley & Associates, acquired January 29, 1996, closed in 2002
    • Maxis in Walnut Creek, California, founded in 1987, acquired in June 1997, folded into Redwood Shores (now Visceral Games) in 2004
    • Westwood Studios in Las Vegas, Nevada, founded in 1987, acquired from Virgin Interactive Entertainment in August 1998, merged into EA Los Angeles in 2003.
    • EA Pacific (known for a time as Westwood Pacific) in Irvine, California, formerly part of Virgin Interactive, acquired with Westwood in 1998, closed in 2003
    • Kesmai (known also as GameStorm), founded in 1981, acquired in 1999, closed in 2001.
    • DICE Canada in London, Ontario, started in 1998, acquired DICE fully October 2, 2006; closed DICE Canada studio hours later.
    • EA Japan in Tokyo, Japan, closed due to consolidation; moved under EA Partners model
    • EA UK in Chertsey, United Kingdom, moved to EA UK in Guildford
    • EA Chicago in Hoffman Estates, Illinois, founded in 1990 as NuFX, acquired in 2004, closed November 6, 2007.
    • Pandemic Studios in Los Angeles, California and Brisbane, Queensland, Australia, founded in 1998, acquired October 2007 from Elevation Partners, closed November 17, 2009.
    • Bright Light, in Guildford, Surrey, formerly EA UK, closed in 2011.
     
    I might not agree with Bren's wording, but he has a point.
    But I will not say I will not play any EA games as I surely have a few tittle's with the EA brand on them that I do love/like or simply enjoy. Just like with every other game company, as sometimes they develop games I enjoy but more often there are plenty of games I don't enjoy or even look at.
     
    Overall I judge a game because it's a form of entertainment and I don't really judge the company even though I might not agree with certain poilicy's or things some company's have done towards game, it's alway's the game that makes me judge gaming.
  • cronius77cronius77 Fairfax, VAPosts: 1,347Member Uncommon

    I think people here are pretty neive about how this stuff actually works because they have never been in the gaming industry. Game companies do not just "go to bed" with a major publisher if they are doing well on their own. Publishers like EA offer them money to pay their employees and create a title. More then likely BIOWARE went to EA and gave them what was on the table and EA gave them a deadline and the capitol to create and pay their employees. EA doesnt care about problems with the game being made or any excuses as their investors expect returns on why EA is giving said deveoloper money. You cannot blame EA for wanting to make its money back , you CAN blame bioware for making a game that was way to technically expensive and challenging to make as their first mmorpg and having a deadline to do it. EA just eats another failed studio....

    Look at mythic for an example , they were losing sub numbers from DAOC and had intrepetor being their next mmorpg , which everyone made fun of. DAOC was starting to lose races to games like EQ2 and WOW , so mythic went to EA with the idea of Dawn of Camelot , and it was ditched instead for Warhammer Online. The rest is history and this is an exact repeat of the entire mythic situation with bioware currently. At least SWTOR was accepted as F2P , WAR and DAOC are just on life support and nothing else.

  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    Ea bought mythic 3 or so years into the development of warhammer.

    They had already ditched Imperitor by then (although it sounded cool to me, space Romans)

    Mythic made the deal with games workshop

    Mythic had a closed beta version of warhammer (with just the dwarfs vs greenskins pairing) built and running BEFORE EA for involved.

    Ea got involved with mythic in 2007 not 2004
  • BrenelaelBrenelael Warren, MEPosts: 3,996Member
    Originally posted by Reklaw
    Originally posted by Kost
    Originally posted by Scorchien
    Originally posted by Kost
    Originally posted by Brenelael

    They new what they were getting into when they decided to get in bed with EA. Even a complete moron can see the trail of broken and destroyed game companies EA has left in their wake so I'm sure a couple of people with Doctorates could have seen it as well. EA buys companies and either absorbs them like the freaking Borg or outrite destroys them. They have had a flawless track record of destruction so far so Bioware will be no different and these guys knew this before they sold out.

     

    Bren

    Are you even able to fathom just how absurd your statement is?

    Complete moron? Whoa there pal, glass houses.

      His Statement is Dead-On exactly 100% correct

    No, it isn't.

    You both need to take the time to educate yourselves before chiming in any further.

    Defunct

    • Original HQ in San Mateo, California, moved to Redwood City in 1998.
    • Origin Systems in Austin, Texas founded in 1983, acquired in 1992, closed in 2004.
    • Bullfrog Productions in Surrey, England, founded in 1987, acquired in 1995, merged with EA UK and effectively closed in 2001.
    • EA Baltimore in Baltimore, Maryland, established in 1996 as part of Origin, closed in 2000
    • EA Seattle in Seattle, Washington, founded in 1982 as Manley & Associates, acquired January 29, 1996, closed in 2002
    • Maxis in Walnut Creek, California, founded in 1987, acquired in June 1997, folded into Redwood Shores (now Visceral Games) in 2004
    • Westwood Studios in Las Vegas, Nevada, founded in 1987, acquired from Virgin Interactive Entertainment in August 1998, merged into EA Los Angeles in 2003.
    • EA Pacific (known for a time as Westwood Pacific) in Irvine, California, formerly part of Virgin Interactive, acquired with Westwood in 1998, closed in 2003
    • Kesmai (known also as GameStorm), founded in 1981, acquired in 1999, closed in 2001.
    • DICE Canada in London, Ontario, started in 1998, acquired DICE fully October 2, 2006; closed DICE Canada studio hours later.
    • EA Japan in Tokyo, Japan, closed due to consolidation; moved under EA Partners model
    • EA UK in Chertsey, United Kingdom, moved to EA UK in Guildford
    • EA Chicago in Hoffman Estates, Illinois, founded in 1990 as NuFX, acquired in 2004, closed November 6, 2007.
    • Pandemic Studios in Los Angeles, California and Brisbane, Queensland, Australia, founded in 1998, acquired October 2007 from Elevation Partners, closed November 17, 2009.
    • Bright Light, in Guildford, Surrey, formerly EA UK, closed in 2011.
     
    I might not agree with Bren's wording, but he has a point.
    But I will not say I will not play any EA games as I surely have a few tittle's with the EA brand on them that I do love/like or simply enjoy. Just like with every other game company, as sometimes they develop games I enjoy but more often there are plenty of games I don't enjoy or even look at.
     
    Overall I judge a game because it's a form of entertainment and I don't really judge the company even though I might not agree with certain poilicy's or things some company's have done towards game, it's alway's the game that makes me judge gaming.

    I never claimed I wouldn't buy an EA game either. I just don't kid myself into thinking EA, Bioware or any large game company is making games for the fans or for art or for any reason other than making a crap ton of money. EA is by far the worst when it comes to this however. They ARE the freaking Borg of the gaming industry. They aquire companies any way they can, gut anything they figure is still profitable out of them and leave an empty shell to wither and die. Most companies they aquire are just for the brand name alone as any IPs or development teams tied to said company get shelved imediately. Bioware is a name they are already stamping on any game they produce with any sort of RPG elements in it. The Bioware of the past is now dead and buried... Swallowed whole by the EA machine. It doesn't matter how or why they got aquired at this point... All that matters is they are now just a footnote in gaming history just like so many other great game companies EA has aquired over the years.

     

    Bren

    while(horse==dead)
    {
    beat();
    }

  • sumsaresumsare BangkokPosts: 4Member
    It's hard for anyone to turn down a load of money. It's easy to convince yourself that things will work out well, and it will be a good thing because that's what they are hearing from the other side. It's unfortunate but most people will go with the money. 
  • PurutzilPurutzil East Stroudsburg, PAPosts: 2,924Member Uncommon

    Thing is, they had their own bit of greed, perhaps not for the money they earned but possibly for the money they would get on the games. EA played a large part in their distress I'm sure and its probably a big reason why they decided to leave.

     

    EA makes games to cash in on the customers, they couldn't care less if the games fun or enjoyable, so long as it sells and makes money its all they care about. This often causes them to rush games or neglect them in hopes of saving the most money and banking as much as possible out of a game. I'm sure this atmosphere likely played a roll in frusterating them and likely driving them away from creating games they enjoyed so much in the past. When game creation becomes a job rather then something you can enjoy and be proud of, it really hurts the end product.

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