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People like the old way?....

2

Comments

  • AnubisanAnubisan Boulder, COPosts: 1,801Member

    While I do enjoy and appreciate most of the innovations of GW2, there are some things that I do miss from the traditional MMORPG model.

    I think that the new questing system, dynamic events, down-leveling and item stats system are all great... BUT I personally don't think they needed to remove the trinity... and I think they may have shot themselves in the foot by doing so. Without dedicated tanks and healers, the dungeons become chaotic cluster ****s that are very disorganized and often completely lack any sort of coordinated teamwork other than picking each other up when knocked down.

    I have played both tanks and healers in many games and I have always highly enjoyed those roles. They didn't need to be fixed in my opinion... SWTOR had a good solution to the lack of healers/tanks in other games by allowing many of the classes to assume those roles in certain specs. I know many people say that you can do the same thing in GW2, but it really is NOT the same in practice. There really is no way to be a true dedicated healer or tank... and that is kind of annoying to me. I really think that the lack of these roles will make dungeon design very difficult for the ArenaNet team to get right.

    This being said, I love virtually everything else about GW2, so it hasn't been a game-breaker for me.

  • TheIronLegionTheIronLegion Columbia, SCPosts: 269Member
    Originally posted by Anubisan

    While I do enjoy and appreciate most of the innovations of GW2, there are some things that I do miss from the traditional MMORPG model.

    I think that the new questing system, dynamic events, down-leveling and item stats system are all great... BUT I personally don't think they needed to remove the trinity... and I think they may have shot themselves in the foot by doing so. Without dedicated tanks and healers, the dungeons become chaotic cluster ****s that are very disorganized and often completely lack any sort of coordinated teamwork other than picking each other up when knocked down.

    I have played both tanks and healers in many games and I have always highly enjoyed those roles. They didn't need to be fixed in my opinion... SWTOR had a good solution to the lack of healers/tanks in other games by allowing many of the classes to assume those roles in certain specs. I know many people say that you can do the same thing in GW2, but it really is NOT the same in practice. There really is no way to be a true dedicated healer or tank... and that is kind of annoying to me. I really think that the lack of these roles will make dungeon design very difficult for the ArenaNet team to get right.

    This being said, I love virtually everything else about GW2, so it hasn't been a game-breaker for me.

    I've played MMO's for a long time(not that it really matters to some) and I never enjoyed the fact that you have to rely so heavily on 2 people in the group: The healer and the tank. I think in every experience i had it boiled down to - if the raid or instance went south you got to blame either the healer or the tank, but if it went well the dps was praised for downing the boss so fast(though occasionally the healer would be praised for awesome ressing). It just made it far too easy to point the finger at someone else. The idea that "this one guy(or two guys) better be good or we're screwed" always got annoying. I prefer the way GW2 does things. If we fail it's our own fault not the fault of a supposedly incompetent healer.

    NOW there are those, like yourself, who enjoy the dedication to a role which is what ROLE PLAYING is all about, but can't you role play without getting the brunt of the pressure? Can't we all be on an epic quest and have vital roles in the group. DPS is great, but I've seen several games where a healer/tank combo duo dungeons and reap the rewards for themselves. Usually some kind of E-couple(dont even get me started on E-couples).

    So i praise GW2's system and exodus of the trinity I think it will bring much needed change.

    image

  • SteeJanzSteeJanz Gladstone, MOPosts: 332Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Anubisan

    While I do enjoy and appreciate most of the innovations of GW2, there are some things that I do miss from the traditional MMORPG model.

    I think that the new questing system, dynamic events, down-leveling and item stats system are all great... BUT I personally don't think they needed to remove the trinity... and I think they may have shot themselves in the foot by doing so. Without dedicated tanks and healers, the dungeons become chaotic cluster ****s that are very disorganized and often completely lack any sort of coordinated teamwork other than picking each other up when knocked down.

    I have played both tanks and healers in many games and I have always highly enjoyed those roles. They didn't need to be fixed in my opinion... SWTOR had a good solution to the lack of healers/tanks in other games by allowing many of the classes to assume those roles in certain specs. I know many people say that you can do the same thing in GW2, but it really is NOT the same in practice. There really is no way to be a true dedicated healer or tank... and that is kind of annoying to me. I really think that the lack of these roles will make dungeon design very difficult for the ArenaNet team to get right.

    This being said, I love virtually everything else about GW2, so it hasn't been a game-breaker for me.

    Sorry, I don't mind what your saying because i understand it completely but you are wrong about one thing.  The trinity still exists, and Anet never said they were getting rid of it.  Anet said they were getting rid of the hard-set roles of the Holy trinity.  I know that is what you mean but that is a HUGE difference.  The trinity still exists and following the rules that come with it makes things less chaotic and the more a group follows those rules the better dungeons go.   What would happen if you took 5 dps to a Holy Trinity dungeon, it would be choas and failing would happen.  The roles were removed to give the players something different not to remove something broken, just something over used.

    If a group took the time to make sure their builds, traits, skills and tactics supported the trinity, then you would find that the dungeons are just as enjoyable as the holy trinity ones.  I was pissed after my first successful completion of an explorable mode dungeon because I died 30 freaking times.  I was even thinking that dungeons weren't fun and they needed to change.  Then I thought about, we consisted of 5 glass cannons.  The fact that we got threw it as 5 glass cannons was because we could rez and run back rez and run back.  That isn't a bad thing and probably should be that way.  After putting together a support build and making sure my group did the same, we ran the same dungeon with maybe 3 rez's.  It was pretty eye opening. 

    Why do we expect to take 5 dps to a dungeon in GW2 when we would never do it with the holy trinity.

  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer ChairPosts: 5,590Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by TheIronLegion
    Originally posted by GeezerGamer   Originally posted by derek39 I know the title might be a little mis-leading, But I couldn't think of anything different at the time.   What I'm trying to say though, Is I've been playing GW2 since headstart, I'm loving every aspect of it. But what I notice is the game is making a lot of people who WERE saying "Give us something new in an MMO!" now say "I miss the trinity" or "Why doesn't gear matter in pvp?" "Why aren't the stats more complex?" "No raids?"  "No real endgame? WTF?" (which isn't true of course) But it just suprises me how a lot of people were handed something very different from the norm and then complain that it's not the same. Why don't these people become accountants or something if they love numbers and more of the same everyday? Sorry that this is a rant post. I guess I just don't understand MMO gamers of today. But then again. I don't think even THEY know what they really want...Thoughts?  
      You made the statement that people complained because they asked for something new and weren't happy when they got it. But that's not the issue for many. People are upset because for so long we were told GW2 will be different. And once you get below the presentation of it, very little is new or different and that's why people are upset.
    I guess once you get past the presentation of any game then no game will ever give us anything new. Shooters, though there are a ton that are vastly different, underneat all the shiny graphics, varying guns, and cool announcer voice-overs they are all exactly the same. You point and shoot. Hard to innovate on something so exactly defined.

    The MMO, in the grand scheme of things, is a bit less strictly defined as an MMO could be anything. But one thing remains; since the early days of MMO's several things have come to be expected from anything wishing to call itself an MMO. You must be able to connect to several others users at once, chat, quest together, group, topple giants, play together. Ofcours there are more specific systems as well: Combat, quest, trade, PvP. Things like this have come to be expected by everyone. Consequently they'll judge every new feature that's added based on older similar features. Even if the feature changes the way something is done or adds something else that is entirely different from anything preceeding it; It will always be judged by its older features. So saying that "below the presentation of it, very little is new or different" is like saying "underneath the hood of that Ford, if you look past the V8, the reimagined cooling system, 11,300 lbs. trailer weight limit, Integrated Trailer Brake Controller (TBC), and its internal full steel fram...it presents nothing new to trucks as it is still a truck that tows things, right?

    The way I've always seen it is like this: Once something is made the only way to innovate past it is to add newer features and he who has the best features wins. Unless, of course, you just want to make something entirely new. In which case you'd have your own genre of ....well, stuff.


    It's not about what they could have done. It's what they said they were going to do.

    Go to GW2 website and look up DEs

    "In Guild Wars 2, your actions really matter and your choices have an impact on the world around you. Instead of static, boring quests in an unchanging world, our dynamic event system creates a living, breathing world that bustles with energy and responds to player actions.
    Dynamic events change and evolve in response to how you interact with them, leaving lasting effects in the game world. If you save that village from ogres, they may return with siege weapons to counter attack or regroup in nearby caves. You can prevent bandits from destroying a town’s water supply or you can defend the workers who repair the damaged pumps. As in real life, every action has a consequence—intended or not."

    That's what they said DEs were. But what they are is an auto spawning orange circle that involves an escort quest or some variation such as defending a location, which is just a stationary escort quest.

  • OnomicOnomic TønsbergPosts: 196Member
    Originally posted by Xerith
    Some people just wan't to complain about everything. You could hand these people a giant sack of cash, and they will complain that its too heavy. All you can do is ignore them, close the post and find something better to read....it's what I do. 

    Hehehe too heavy.

  • NevulusNevulus Miami Beach, FLPosts: 1,288Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by derek39

    I know the title might be a little mis-leading, But I couldn't think of anything different at the time.

    What I'm trying to say though, Is I've been playing GW2 since headstart, I'm loving every aspect of it.

    But what I notice is the game is making a lot of people who WERE saying "Give us something new in an MMO!" now say "I miss the trinity" or "Why doesn't gear matter in pvp?" "Why aren't the stats more complex?" "No raids?"  "No real endgame? WTF?" (which isn't true of course)

    But it just suprises me how a lot of people were handed something very different from the norm and then complain that it's not the same.

    Why don't these people become accountants or something if they love numbers and more of the same everyday?

    Sorry that this is a rant post. I guess I just don't understand MMO gamers of today. But then again. I don't think even THEY know what they really want...Thoughts?

    Find me an example of someone saying they hate the trinity system, and then played gw2, and changed their mind where they want it back. Until then this is heresay.

  • AerowynAerowyn BUZZARDS BAY, MAPosts: 7,928Member
    Originally posted by GeezerGamer

     

     

    It's not about what they could have done. It's what they said they were going to do.

    Go to GW2 website and look up DEs

    "In Guild Wars 2, your actions really matter and your choices have an impact on the world around you. Instead of static, boring quests in an unchanging world, our dynamic event system creates a living, breathing world that bustles with energy and responds to player actions.
    Dynamic events change and evolve in response to how you interact with them, leaving lasting effects in the game world. If you save that village from ogres, they may return with siege weapons to counter attack or regroup in nearby caves. You can prevent bandits from destroying a town’s water supply or you can defend the workers who repair the damaged pumps. As in real life, every action has a consequence—intended or not."

    That's what they said DEs were. But what they are is an auto spawning orange circle that involves an escort quest or some variation such as defending a location, which is just a stationary escort quest.

    again in your perspective.. yes they exaggerate a little especially when talking about early DE's but over I feel they do add to the feeling of a living world 100x more than static quest hub games.. yes they repeat but it's a balance thing trying to allow maximum # of players enjoy the content.. How much would it suck if a huge giant trampled a town to the ground and it was down for weeks and you just happened to miss that epic fight?... They have said DE's will be expanded upon and changed up so well see what the future holds for them.

    I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  • NevulusNevulus Miami Beach, FLPosts: 1,288Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by derek39

    ... or "Why doesn't gear matter in pvp?" "Why aren't the stats more complex?" "No raids?"  "No real endgame? WTF?" (which isn't true of course)

    But it just suprises me how a lot of people were handed something very different from the norm and then complain that it's not the same.

    Why don't these people become accountants or something if they love numbers and more of the same everyday?

    Sorry that this is a rant post. I guess I just don't understand MMO gamers of today. But then again. I don't think even THEY know what they really want...Thoughts?

    Gear does matter in WvWvW PVP, so I am not sure what you are implying.

  • TheIronLegionTheIronLegion Columbia, SCPosts: 269Member
    Originally posted by GeezerGamer

     


    Originally posted by TheIronLegion

    Originally posted by GeezerGamer  

    Originally posted by derek39 I know the title might be a little mis-leading, But I couldn't think of anything different at the time.   What I'm trying to say though, Is I've been playing GW2 since headstart, I'm loving every aspect of it. But what I notice is the game is making a lot of people who WERE saying "Give us something new in an MMO!" now say "I miss the trinity" or "Why doesn't gear matter in pvp?" "Why aren't the stats more complex?" "No raids?"  "No real endgame? WTF?" (which isn't true of course) But it just suprises me how a lot of people were handed something very different from the norm and then complain that it's not the same. Why don't these people become accountants or something if they love numbers and more of the same everyday? Sorry that this is a rant post. I guess I just don't understand MMO gamers of today. But then again. I don't think even THEY know what they really want...Thoughts?  
      You made the statement that people complained because they asked for something new and weren't happy when they got it. But that's not the issue for many. People are upset because for so long we were told GW2 will be different. And once you get below the presentation of it, very little is new or different and that's why people are upset.
    I guess once you get past the presentation of any game then no game will ever give us anything new. Shooters, though there are a ton that are vastly different, underneat all the shiny graphics, varying guns, and cool announcer voice-overs they are all exactly the same. You point and shoot. Hard to innovate on something so exactly defined.

     

    The MMO, in the grand scheme of things, is a bit less strictly defined as an MMO could be anything. But one thing remains; since the early days of MMO's several things have come to be expected from anything wishing to call itself an MMO. You must be able to connect to several others users at once, chat, quest together, group, topple giants, play together. Ofcours there are more specific systems as well: Combat, quest, trade, PvP. Things like this have come to be expected by everyone. Consequently they'll judge every new feature that's added based on older similar features. Even if the feature changes the way something is done or adds something else that is entirely different from anything preceeding it; It will always be judged by its older features. So saying that "below the presentation of it, very little is new or different" is like saying "underneath the hood of that Ford, if you look past the V8, the reimagined cooling system, 11,300 lbs. trailer weight limit, Integrated Trailer Brake Controller (TBC), and its internal full steel fram...it presents nothing new to trucks as it is still a truck that tows things, right?

    The way I've always seen it is like this: Once something is made the only way to innovate past it is to add newer features and he who has the best features wins. Unless, of course, you just want to make something entirely new. In which case you'd have your own genre of ....well, stuff.

     


     

    It's not about what they could have done. It's what they said they were going to do.

    Go to GW2 website and look up DEs

    "In Guild Wars 2, your actions really matter and your choices have an impact on the world around you. Instead of static, boring quests in an unchanging world, our dynamic event system creates a living, breathing world that bustles with energy and responds to player actions.
    Dynamic events change and evolve in response to how you interact with them, leaving lasting effects in the game world. If you save that village from ogres, they may return with siege weapons to counter attack or regroup in nearby caves. You can prevent bandits from destroying a town’s water supply or you can defend the workers who repair the damaged pumps. As in real life, every action has a consequence—intended or not."

    That's what they said DEs were. But what they are is an auto spawning orange circle that involves an escort quest or some variation such as defending a location, which is just a stationary escort quest.

    Sounds like you're walking in on a dynamic event already in progress. It's like walking in on your friend about to get some snookie. You don't quite know what's going on but can connect the dots enough to know..."theres some snookie about to happen here"...Most dynamic events do effect the world around you. Centaurs raid a camp you see them ride in from whatever camp they were at. They knock over buildings maybe set up catapults, burn things, etc. The player is then asked to help. Obviously killing the centaurs is one way, but then theres the other issues like ...oh i don't know, the buildings on fire? So now you have to put out the fires, help them rebuild the buildings and destroy centaur catapults to stop their siege. Once that is done then the event chains and its time to retaliate. Both you and the NPCs want blood! So you rally together and storm into the centaur camp and strike while the iron is hottest. You kill a whole metric-monkey-butt ton of centaur and then their cheifton gets all sorts of butt hurt and comes out to give you his monologue about how inferior you are and then wraps up by calling you "two legs".

    The point here is that you made an effect. You defended a town from centaurs, the town was thankful, the guard wanted blood, asked you to join them in their raid, you kill tons of thingies, slay a chiefton and are rewarded for everything. And guess what...as you walk into the sunset, wiping the sweat from your brow, you look over your shoulder to see...the town is still saved. you walk alittle furthur and you look back again; still saved.

    Come back in a few hours after the centaurs have removed your boot from their (insert word for ass here) and find that they are attempting to raid the town again. The guys are pretty persistent. And you get to put on your good steel toe boots, you know the ones you use to kick freeloaders out of your apartment, and kick some more.....tushie.

    image

  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer ChairPosts: 5,590Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by Aerowyn
    Originally posted by GeezerGamer  
      It's not about what they could have done. It's what they said they were going to do. Go to GW2 website and look up DEs "In Guild Wars 2, your actions really matter and your choices have an impact on the world around you. Instead of static, boring quests in an unchanging world, our dynamic event system creates a living, breathing world that bustles with energy and responds to player actions. Dynamic events change and evolve in response to how you interact with them, leaving lasting effects in the game world. If you save that village from ogres, they may return with siege weapons to counter attack or regroup in nearby caves. You can prevent bandits from destroying a town’s water supply or you can defend the workers who repair the damaged pumps. As in real life, every action has a consequence—intended or not." That's what they said DEs were. But what they are is an auto spawning orange circle that involves an escort quest or some variation such as defending a location, which is just a stationary escort quest.
    again in your perspective.. yes they exaggerate a little especially when talking about early DE's but over I feel they do add to the feeling of a living world 100x more than static quest hub games.. yes they repeat but it's a balance thing trying to allow maximum # of players enjoy the content.. How much would it suck if a huge giant trampled a town to the ground and it was down for weeks and you just happened to miss that epic fight?... They have said DE's will be expanded upon and changed up so well see what the future holds for them.

    I hope they do. Because at levels 20, 30 and 50, I've seen little variation in them, and While I hear they become more involved at higher levels, It's still an issue if I have to wait 50 levels before I start seeing it.

  • SteeJanzSteeJanz Gladstone, MOPosts: 332Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by GeezerGamer

     


    Originally posted by TheIronLegion

    Originally posted by GeezerGamer  

    Originally posted by derek39 I know the title might be a little mis-leading, But I couldn't think of anything different at the time.   What I'm trying to say though, Is I've been playing GW2 since headstart, I'm loving every aspect of it. But what I notice is the game is making a lot of people who WERE saying "Give us something new in an MMO!" now say "I miss the trinity" or "Why doesn't gear matter in pvp?" "Why aren't the stats more complex?" "No raids?"  "No real endgame? WTF?" (which isn't true of course) But it just suprises me how a lot of people were handed something very different from the norm and then complain that it's not the same. Why don't these people become accountants or something if they love numbers and more of the same everyday? Sorry that this is a rant post. I guess I just don't understand MMO gamers of today. But then again. I don't think even THEY know what they really want...Thoughts?  
      You made the statement that people complained because they asked for something new and weren't happy when they got it. But that's not the issue for many. People are upset because for so long we were told GW2 will be different. And once you get below the presentation of it, very little is new or different and that's why people are upset.
    I guess once you get past the presentation of any game then no game will ever give us anything new. Shooters, though there are a ton that are vastly different, underneat all the shiny graphics, varying guns, and cool announcer voice-overs they are all exactly the same. You point and shoot. Hard to innovate on something so exactly defined.

     

    The MMO, in the grand scheme of things, is a bit less strictly defined as an MMO could be anything. But one thing remains; since the early days of MMO's several things have come to be expected from anything wishing to call itself an MMO. You must be able to connect to several others users at once, chat, quest together, group, topple giants, play together. Ofcours there are more specific systems as well: Combat, quest, trade, PvP. Things like this have come to be expected by everyone. Consequently they'll judge every new feature that's added based on older similar features. Even if the feature changes the way something is done or adds something else that is entirely different from anything preceeding it; It will always be judged by its older features. So saying that "below the presentation of it, very little is new or different" is like saying "underneath the hood of that Ford, if you look past the V8, the reimagined cooling system, 11,300 lbs. trailer weight limit, Integrated Trailer Brake Controller (TBC), and its internal full steel fram...it presents nothing new to trucks as it is still a truck that tows things, right?

    The way I've always seen it is like this: Once something is made the only way to innovate past it is to add newer features and he who has the best features wins. Unless, of course, you just want to make something entirely new. In which case you'd have your own genre of ....well, stuff.


     

    It's not about what they could have done. It's what they said they were going to do.

    Go to GW2 website and look up DEs

    "In Guild Wars 2, your actions really matter and your choices have an impact on the world around you. Instead of static, boring quests in an unchanging world, our dynamic event system creates a living, breathing world that bustles with energy and responds to player actions.
    Dynamic events change and evolve in response to how you interact with them, leaving lasting effects in the game world. If you save that village from ogres, they may return with siege weapons to counter attack or regroup in nearby caves. You can prevent bandits from destroying a town’s water supply or you can defend the workers who repair the damaged pumps. As in real life, every action has a consequence—intended or not."

    That's what they said DEs were. But what they are is an auto spawning orange circle that involves an escort quest or some variation such as defending a location, which is just a stationary escort quest.

    This is a blatant misinfroming post.  You will of course accuse me of attacking you a third time but the truth is there are tons of quests just as they described.  Your blatant over simplification of how it works has been explained over and over.  DE's have different stages, and each one automatically kicks off based on the state they are in.  The my have 8 different stages so yes they will get to one end or another but it is up to the player base on what stage they will be in.  If the players don't do anything then the DE will be at one end of the DE if they players chose to do something it will be at the other end.  At what stage it is in depends on the player base.  So it gives the feeling as they described.  This approach is completely different than the standard quest hub, but for some reason people try to act like they are the same. 

    The quest type will never change, because there are only so many that can be done.  I believe most have put it into the 5 D's.  Destroy, defend, drop ,deliver, and discover.   To say that guild wars 2 questing is the same as other games because it has the 5 D's is nothing more than looking for something to complain about.

    I am not saying DE's are better than quest hubs because that is the subjective.  But act to like they are the same is ignorance.

  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer ChairPosts: 5,590Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by SteeJanz
    Originally posted by GeezerGamer   Originally posted by TheIronLegion Originally posted by GeezerGamer   Originally posted by derek39 I know the title might be a little mis-leading, But I couldn't think of anything different at the time.   What I'm trying to say though, Is I've been playing GW2 since headstart, I'm loving every aspect of it. But what I notice is the game is making a lot of people who WERE saying "Give us something new in an MMO!" now say "I miss the trinity" or "Why doesn't gear matter in pvp?" "Why aren't the stats more complex?" "No raids?"  "No real endgame? WTF?" (which isn't true of course) But it just suprises me how a lot of people were handed something very different from the norm and then complain that it's not the same. Why don't these people become accountants or something if they love numbers and more of the same everyday? Sorry that this is a rant post. I guess I just don't understand MMO gamers of today. But then again. I don't think even THEY know what they really want...Thoughts?  
      You made the statement that people complained because they asked for something new and weren't happy when they got it. But that's not the issue for many. People are upset because for so long we were told GW2 will be different. And once you get below the presentation of it, very little is new or different and that's why people are upset.
    I guess once you get past the presentation of any game then no game will ever give us anything new. Shooters, though there are a ton that are vastly different, underneat all the shiny graphics, varying guns, and cool announcer voice-overs they are all exactly the same. You point and shoot. Hard to innovate on something so exactly defined.   The MMO, in the grand scheme of things, is a bit less strictly defined as an MMO could be anything. But one thing remains; since the early days of MMO's several things have come to be expected from anything wishing to call itself an MMO. You must be able to connect to several others users at once, chat, quest together, group, topple giants, play together. Ofcours there are more specific systems as well: Combat, quest, trade, PvP. Things like this have come to be expected by everyone. Consequently they'll judge every new feature that's added based on older similar features. Even if the feature changes the way something is done or adds something else that is entirely different from anything preceeding it; It will always be judged by its older features. So saying that "below the presentation of it, very little is new or different" is like saying "underneath the hood of that Ford, if you look past the V8, the reimagined cooling system, 11,300 lbs. trailer weight limit, Integrated Trailer Brake Controller (TBC), and its internal full steel fram...it presents nothing new to trucks as it is still a truck that tows things, right? The way I've always seen it is like this: Once something is made the only way to innovate past it is to add newer features and he who has the best features wins. Unless, of course, you just want to make something entirely new. In which case you'd have your own genre of ....well, stuff.
      It's not about what they could have done. It's what they said they were going to do. Go to GW2 website and look up DEs "In Guild Wars 2, your actions really matter and your choices have an impact on the world around you. Instead of static, boring quests in an unchanging world, our dynamic event system creates a living, breathing world that bustles with energy and responds to player actions. Dynamic events change and evolve in response to how you interact with them, leaving lasting effects in the game world. If you save that village from ogres, they may return with siege weapons to counter attack or regroup in nearby caves. You can prevent bandits from destroying a town’s water supply or you can defend the workers who repair the damaged pumps. As in real life, every action has a consequence—intended or not." That's what they said DEs were. But what they are is an auto spawning orange circle that involves an escort quest or some variation such as defending a location, which is just a stationary escort quest.
    This is a blatant misinfroming post.  You will of course accuse me of attacking you a third time but the truth is there are tons of quests just as they described.  Your blatant over simplification of how it works has been explained over and over.  DE's have different stages, and each one automatically kicks off based on the state they are in.  The my have 8 different stages so yes they will get to one end or another but it is up to the player base on what stage they will be in.  If the players don't do anything then the DE will be at one end of the DE if they players chose to do something it will be at the other end.  At what stage it is in depends on the player base.  So it gives the feeling as they described.  This approach is completely different than the standard quest hub, but for some reason people try to act like they are the same. 

    The quest type will never change, because there are only so many that can be done.  I believe most have put it into the 5 D's.  Destroy, defend, drop ,deliver, and discover.   To say that guild wars 2 questing is the same as other games because it has the 5 D's is nothing more than looking for something to complain about.

    I am not saying DE's are better than quest hubs because that is the subjective.  But act to like they are the same is ignorance.


    Thank you for the technical breakdown of DE's. Now that I have read your post, the next time I see an orange circle I'll think back to your response. Then I can convince myself that "Hey, this only looks and feels like just another escort quest, but really there is so much more depth to it and I'll no longer feel like "Oh this again" Because now I see that I've been doing it wrong.

  • AerowynAerowyn BUZZARDS BAY, MAPosts: 7,928Member
    Originally posted by GeezerGamer

     


    Originally posted by Aerowyn

    Originally posted by GeezerGamer

     
      It's not about what they could have done. It's what they said they were going to do. Go to GW2 website and look up DEs "In Guild Wars 2, your actions really matter and your choices have an impact on the world around you. Instead of static, boring quests in an unchanging world, our dynamic event system creates a living, breathing world that bustles with energy and responds to player actions. Dynamic events change and evolve in response to how you interact with them, leaving lasting effects in the game world. If you save that village from ogres, they may return with siege weapons to counter attack or regroup in nearby caves. You can prevent bandits from destroying a town’s water supply or you can defend the workers who repair the damaged pumps. As in real life, every action has a consequence—intended or not." That's what they said DEs were. But what they are is an auto spawning orange circle that involves an escort quest or some variation such as defending a location, which is just a stationary escort quest.
    again in your perspective.. yes they exaggerate a little especially when talking about early DE's but over I feel they do add to the feeling of a living world 100x more than static quest hub games.. yes they repeat but it's a balance thing trying to allow maximum # of players enjoy the content.. How much would it suck if a huge giant trampled a town to the ground and it was down for weeks and you just happened to miss that epic fight?... They have said DE's will be expanded upon and changed up so well see what the future holds for them.

     

    I hope they do. Because at levels 20, 30 and 50, I've seen little variation in them, and While I hear they become more involved at higher levels, It's still an issue if I have to wait 50 levels before I start seeing it.

    yes there are lots of repeat event types but each one does have a story and purpose if you follow them through from start to end.. obviously some more elaborate than others and Iv'e noticed the higher I get the cause and effect is little more lasting and obvious. Issue now is oversaturation of zones just too many people causing very few to actually fail(yes they scale but only so far) not allowing you to see effects of failed events because you just don't see them fail as often.. Plenty have osme nice cause and effect even in early levels there's a couple threads on this in the PVE section.

    I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer ChairPosts: 5,590Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by Aerowyn
    Originally posted by GeezerGamer   Originally posted by Aerowyn Originally posted by GeezerGamer  
      It's not about what they could have done. It's what they said they were going to do. Go to GW2 website and look up DEs "In Guild Wars 2, your actions really matter and your choices have an impact on the world around you. Instead of static, boring quests in an unchanging world, our dynamic event system creates a living, breathing world that bustles with energy and responds to player actions. Dynamic events change and evolve in response to how you interact with them, leaving lasting effects in the game world. If you save that village from ogres, they may return with siege weapons to counter attack or regroup in nearby caves. You can prevent bandits from destroying a town’s water supply or you can defend the workers who repair the damaged pumps. As in real life, every action has a consequence—intended or not." That's what they said DEs were. But what they are is an auto spawning orange circle that involves an escort quest or some variation such as defending a location, which is just a stationary escort quest.
    again in your perspective.. yes they exaggerate a little especially when talking about early DE's but over I feel they do add to the feeling of a living world 100x more than static quest hub games.. yes they repeat but it's a balance thing trying to allow maximum # of players enjoy the content.. How much would it suck if a huge giant trampled a town to the ground and it was down for weeks and you just happened to miss that epic fight?... They have said DE's will be expanded upon and changed up so well see what the future holds for them.
      I hope they do. Because at levels 20, 30 and 50, I've seen little variation in them, and While I hear they become more involved at higher levels, It's still an issue if I have to wait 50 levels before I start seeing it.
    yes there are lots of repeat event types but each one does have a story and purpose if you follow them through from start to end.. obviously some more elaborate than others and Iv'e noticed the higher I get the cause and effect is little more lasting and obvious. Issue now is oversaturation of zones just too many people causing very few to actually fail(yes they scale but only so far) not allowing you to see effects of failed events because you just don't see them fail as often.. Plenty have osme nice cause and effect even in early levels there's a couple threads on this in the PVE section.

    OK, each has a story, and they are supposed to build off each other, but it's like what Iron said. I must be walking into it half way. But then what do you suggest for that? I'm wandering through the zone looking for areas I have yet to complete and I see the orange bar pop up on my screen and I hustle as fast as I can over to it. But this experiences is far to common. Wandering around and DEs are already in progress. I can't control that, I simply can go with it. So then, why is the story important anymore?

  • CoatedCoated Woodside, CAPosts: 339Member Uncommon

    I'm not sure what people are complaining about. There seems to be a big seperation between the people complaining about - Missing the trinity system - and people complaining about - This game really is 'same old, same old' -

    I'm the latter.

    This game wasn't different enough. Once you get down to it, all you do in this game is grind for gear, do dungeons over and over. The dynamic events aren't dynamic at all and the PvP/WvWvW is as standard as can be. I think my biggest gripe about GW2 though is the pvp. I never played GW1, but people hyped the pvp in that game and I expected (maybe my mistake here) GW2 to follow that tradition.  What we have in GW2 is the worst PvP i've ever experienced.

    As far as the diving deeper into the 'Trinity System', I have already vented my frustration on this matter. GW2 'does' have a semi-trinity system. There are 'tanks' and there is 'dps', the only thing they really did differently was take out healers and disper that idea across the classes. There is nothing innovative about what they did. The dungeons are classic format and they just tweeked it a bit so that groups could do without healers. You still have your typical boss fights, with your typical 3+ group pulls which require some CC and someone to kite or take the damage. I see nothing 'incredibly' different here (at least not what people are going around blabbing about).

  • SteeJanzSteeJanz Gladstone, MOPosts: 332Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by GeezerGamer

     


    Originally posted by SteeJanz

    Originally posted by GeezerGamer  

    Originally posted by TheIronLegion

    Originally posted by GeezerGamer  

    Originally posted by derek39 I know the title might be a little mis-leading, But I couldn't think of anything different at the time.   What I'm trying to say though, Is I've been playing GW2 since headstart, I'm loving every aspect of it. But what I notice is the game is making a lot of people who WERE saying "Give us something new in an MMO!" now say "I miss the trinity" or "Why doesn't gear matter in pvp?" "Why aren't the stats more complex?" "No raids?"  "No real endgame? WTF?" (which isn't true of course) But it just suprises me how a lot of people were handed something very different from the norm and then complain that it's not the same. Why don't these people become accountants or something if they love numbers and more of the same everyday? Sorry that this is a rant post. I guess I just don't understand MMO gamers of today. But then again. I don't think even THEY know what they really want...Thoughts?  
      You made the statement that people complained because they asked for something new and weren't happy when they got it. But that's not the issue for many. People are upset because for so long we were told GW2 will be different. And once you get below the presentation of it, very little is new or different and that's why people are upset.
    I guess once you get past the presentation of any game then no game will ever give us anything new. Shooters, though there are a ton that are vastly different, underneat all the shiny graphics, varying guns, and cool announcer voice-overs they are all exactly the same. You point and shoot. Hard to innovate on something so exactly defined.   The MMO, in the grand scheme of things, is a bit less strictly defined as an MMO could be anything. But one thing remains; since the early days of MMO's several things have come to be expected from anything wishing to call itself an MMO. You must be able to connect to several others users at once, chat, quest together, group, topple giants, play together. Ofcours there are more specific systems as well: Combat, quest, trade, PvP. Things like this have come to be expected by everyone. Consequently they'll judge every new feature that's added based on older similar features. Even if the feature changes the way something is done or adds something else that is entirely different from anything preceeding it; It will always be judged by its older features. So saying that "below the presentation of it, very little is new or different" is like saying "underneath the hood of that Ford, if you look past the V8, the reimagined cooling system, 11,300 lbs. trailer weight limit, Integrated Trailer Brake Controller (TBC), and its internal full steel fram...it presents nothing new to trucks as it is still a truck that tows things, right? The way I've always seen it is like this: Once something is made the only way to innovate past it is to add newer features and he who has the best features wins. Unless, of course, you just want to make something entirely new. In which case you'd have your own genre of ....well, stuff.
      It's not about what they could have done. It's what they said they were going to do. Go to GW2 website and look up DEs "In Guild Wars 2, your actions really matter and your choices have an impact on the world around you. Instead of static, boring quests in an unchanging world, our dynamic event system creates a living, breathing world that bustles with energy and responds to player actions. Dynamic events change and evolve in response to how you interact with them, leaving lasting effects in the game world. If you save that village from ogres, they may return with siege weapons to counter attack or regroup in nearby caves. You can prevent bandits from destroying a town’s water supply or you can defend the workers who repair the damaged pumps. As in real life, every action has a consequence—intended or not." That's what they said DEs were. But what they are is an auto spawning orange circle that involves an escort quest or some variation such as defending a location, which is just a stationary escort quest.
    This is a blatant misinfroming post.  You will of course accuse me of attacking you a third time but the truth is there are tons of quests just as they described.  Your blatant over simplification of how it works has been explained over and over.  DE's have different stages, and each one automatically kicks off based on the state they are in.  The my have 8 different stages so yes they will get to one end or another but it is up to the player base on what stage they will be in.  If the players don't do anything then the DE will be at one end of the DE if they players chose to do something it will be at the other end.  At what stage it is in depends on the player base.  So it gives the feeling as they described.  This approach is completely different than the standard quest hub, but for some reason people try to act like they are the same. 

     

    The quest type will never change, because there are only so many that can be done.  I believe most have put it into the 5 D's.  Destroy, defend, drop ,deliver, and discover.   To say that guild wars 2 questing is the same as other games because it has the 5 D's is nothing more than looking for something to complain about.

    I am not saying DE's are better than quest hubs because that is the subjective.  But act to like they are the same is ignorance.


     

    Thank you for the technical breakdown of DE's. Now that I have read your post, the next time I see an orange circle I'll think back to your response. Then I can convince myself that "Hey, this only looks and feels like just another escort quest, but really there is so much more depth to it and I'll no longer feel like "Oh this again" Because now I see that I've been doing it wrong.

    THis still doesn't support you claim that the quest auto spawns.  Please point me to the spot that I can go to in the game world and identify the quest that will pop up every single time.  Just because I stood in that spot.  The fact that things are happening around you, may be to other players.  Maybe you found a DE that is trying to get to the next stage because the players keep failing at it.   So I will give merit to your statement when you can point me to a spot that will trigger the same DE everytime I visit that spot. 

  • StanlyStankoStanlyStanko Stanksville, OHPosts: 269Member Common
    Originally posted by Coated

    This game wasn't different enough. Once you get down to it

     

  • VyntVynt Glendale, CAPosts: 632Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Vahrane
    Originally posted by derek39

    I know the title might be a little mis-leading, But I couldn't think of anything different at the time.

    What I'm trying to say though, Is I've been playing GW2 since headstart, I'm loving every aspect of it.

    But what I notice is the game is making a lot of people who WERE saying "Give us something new in an MMO!" now say "I miss the trinity" or "Why doesn't gear matter in pvp?" "Why aren't the stats more complex?" "No raids?"  "No real endgame? WTF?" (which isn't true of course)

    But it just suprises me how a lot of people were handed something very different from the norm and then complain that it's not the same.

    Why don't these people become accountants or something if they love numbers and more of the same everyday?

    Sorry that this is a rant post. I guess I just don't understand MMO gamers of today. But then again. I don't think even THEY know what they really want...Thoughts?

          When people are simply asking for a more innovative product I see it as asking for vastly improved old features (that is improvements to the fundamentals of mmo group combat like aggro mechanics and hate generation e.g. monsters responding to an attack being initiated instead of only after its gone off) or for entirely new features. You basically just demonstrated GW2 took things away instead of adding new or vastly improved features to the genre. Why can't we have groups designed around more of a quartet rather than a trinity but have some of the roles be variable?

        These are just some of the things I consider when I look at how innovative a game really is. GW2 tried to do a few thinks differently, as you stated, with the result being that some like it and and some do not, however, I feel it didn't cause the genre to progress in any truly noticeable/meaningful way.

    The older games use to be based around 4 or even 5 roles, some variable. it just kept getting dumbed down through the years, to a trinity, to just 2 jobs, or everyone a hybrid etc.

    Take EQ for example. That was not a trinity. Try doing anything late in the game with just a tank, healer, dps roles. Not going to succeed. You needed CC, needed slows, buffs/debuffs. That was a 4th role for sure, sometimes added a 5th. Like having your tank, healer, dps, but your enchanter for cc, with some slows buffs, but maybe had a shaman too for more buffs better slow, or a bard in there. Also you had a puller, that could be dps, or like the bard, part of the support. It wasn't so limited as just a normal trinity.

    Daoc was like that too. Needed that cc/support, speed, especially for pvp. Often didn't really even need a tank in pvp, but they could really make a difference. The roles and interaction between classes were greater, and more dynamic.

    WoW was more a trinity. Tank, healer, dps. CC was minor and not a specialty of anyone. They ended up getting even more hybrid types in game. You can see the progression of the game being simplified, dumbed down during each expansion. Choices being reduced, limited, removed altogether. Total revamps with less variety.

     

    It just seems each new game keeps simplifying it more and more, probably to appeal to a more casual market, and it is just creating a poorer experience.

    I've played MMOs without healers before, where anyone could pretty much "tank", popping heal pots all the time, and it just seemed boring.

    I just want a MMO where there are more roles than just 2 or 3, maybe 4 or 5 like before, where everyone cannot do everything, and groups are bigger than 4 or 5 people. I want to specialize, I want to be able to maximize my ability in my specialization. I don't want to be able to change from tank to dps to healer group to group, or be forced to when I just really want to be a healer with cc, or a puller etc. Not advocating classes can do just one thing, but not do everything equally well. My shaman in EQ was great at buffing, debuffing, could do some nice dmg with pet and dots, and even be a healer, but wasn't the best at every role.

     

    Sorry for what turned into a rant, lol, just tired of seeing the simplification of the genre and it being called innovation.

  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer ChairPosts: 5,590Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by SteeJanz

    Originally posted by GeezerGamer  

    Originally posted by SteeJanz

    Originally posted by GeezerGamer  

    Originally posted by TheIronLegion

    Originally posted by GeezerGamer  

    Originally posted by derek39 I know the title might be a little mis-leading, But I couldn't think of anything different at the time.   What I'm trying to say though, Is I've been playing GW2 since headstart, I'm loving every aspect of it. But what I notice is the game is making a lot of people who WERE saying "Give us something new in an MMO!" now say "I miss the trinity" or "Why doesn't gear matter in pvp?" "Why aren't the stats more complex?" "No raids?"  "No real endgame? WTF?" (which isn't true of course) But it just suprises me how a lot of people were handed something very different from the norm and then complain that it's not the same. Why don't these people become accountants or something if they love numbers and more of the same everyday? Sorry that this is a rant post. I guess I just don't understand MMO gamers of today. But then again. I don't think even THEY know what they really want...Thoughts?  
      You made the statement that people complained because they asked for something new and weren't happy when they got it. But that's not the issue for many. People are upset because for so long we were told GW2 will be different. And once you get below the presentation of it, very little is new or different and that's why people are upset.
    I guess once you get past the presentation of any game then no game will ever give us anything new. Shooters, though there are a ton that are vastly different, underneat all the shiny graphics, varying guns, and cool announcer voice-overs they are all exactly the same. You point and shoot. Hard to innovate on something so exactly defined.   The MMO, in the grand scheme of things, is a bit less strictly defined as an MMO could be anything. But one thing remains; since the early days of MMO's several things have come to be expected from anything wishing to call itself an MMO. You must be able to connect to several others users at once, chat, quest together, group, topple giants, play together. Ofcours there are more specific systems as well: Combat, quest, trade, PvP. Things like this have come to be expected by everyone. Consequently they'll judge every new feature that's added based on older similar features. Even if the feature changes the way something is done or adds something else that is entirely different from anything preceeding it; It will always be judged by its older features. So saying that "below the presentation of it, very little is new or different" is like saying "underneath the hood of that Ford, if you look past the V8, the reimagined cooling system, 11,300 lbs. trailer weight limit, Integrated Trailer Brake Controller (TBC), and its internal full steel fram...it presents nothing new to trucks as it is still a truck that tows things, right? The way I've always seen it is like this: Once something is made the only way to innovate past it is to add newer features and he who has the best features wins. Unless, of course, you just want to make something entirely new. In which case you'd have your own genre of ....well, stuff.
      It's not about what they could have done. It's what they said they were going to do. Go to GW2 website and look up DEs "In Guild Wars 2, your actions really matter and your choices have an impact on the world around you. Instead of static, boring quests in an unchanging world, our dynamic event system creates a living, breathing world that bustles with energy and responds to player actions. Dynamic events change and evolve in response to how you interact with them, leaving lasting effects in the game world. If you save that village from ogres, they may return with siege weapons to counter attack or regroup in nearby caves. You can prevent bandits from destroying a town’s water supply or you can defend the workers who repair the damaged pumps. As in real life, every action has a consequence—intended or not." That's what they said DEs were. But what they are is an auto spawning orange circle that involves an escort quest or some variation such as defending a location, which is just a stationary escort quest.
    This is a blatant misinfroming post.  You will of course accuse me of attacking you a third time but the truth is there are tons of quests just as they described.  Your blatant over simplification of how it works has been explained over and over.  DE's have different stages, and each one automatically kicks off based on the state they are in.  The my have 8 different stages so yes they will get to one end or another but it is up to the player base on what stage they will be in.  If the players don't do anything then the DE will be at one end of the DE if they players chose to do something it will be at the other end.  At what stage it is in depends on the player base.  So it gives the feeling as they described.  This approach is completely different than the standard quest hub, but for some reason people try to act like they are the same.    The quest type will never change, because there are only so many that can be done.  I believe most have put it into the 5 D's.  Destroy, defend, drop ,deliver, and discover.   To say that guild wars 2 questing is the same as other games because it has the 5 D's is nothing more than looking for something to complain about. I am not saying DE's are better than quest hubs because that is the subjective.  But act to like they are the same is ignorance.
      Thank you for the technical breakdown of DE's. Now that I have read your post, the next time I see an orange circle I'll think back to your response. Then I can convince myself that "Hey, this only looks and feels like just another escort quest, but really there is so much more depth to it and I'll no longer feel like "Oh this again" Because now I see that I've been doing it wrong.
    THis still doesn't support you claim that the quest auto spawns.  Please point me to the spot that I can go to in the game world and identify the quest that will pop up every single time.  Just because I stood in that spot.  The fact that things are happening around you, may be to other players.  Maybe you found a DE that is trying to get to the next stage because the players keep failing at it.   So I will give merit to your statement when you can point me to a spot that will trigger the same DE everytime I visit that spot. 

    As I said. Thank you for correcting me. I really should have worded it more correctly for you. Instead of saying what they are. I should have use the term "little more than" So that we can all be clear that this is only my opinion and not mistake it for misinformation.

  • redman875redman875 illinois, ILPosts: 230Member

    Yeah im really not sure why people, prior to really playing the game, thought that a game lacking an real reason to play other than just to play was going to cut it as a long term game.  Im sure the B2P really reflects this development decision.

     

    GW2 is probably a fantastic game for super casual players who just want to jump into a game, run a few pvp instances between running around aimlessly triggering events.  These people dont have to worry about other players with more time being better off than they are...however im not sure why that would bother someone...i know it does bother a lot though.

    Im sure anyone looking for a long term game with a lot of depth to it might not be satisfied.

    I would like to call GW2 "Fast Food MMORPG"  or possibly "McMMO"  yeah its good at first and in short sprints but you probably dont want to play it every day all day for months...

    On the brightside, hopefully this game keeps the crowd who protests in every mmorpg to nerf anything that takes effort using the buzzword "grind" and to keep making it easier... and faster for them to be done with the game...

    I remember when people wanted it to take as long as possible to get to max level...since that was an accomplishment and really felt a good attachment to the character...with games like this...it just doesnt matter.

  • AerowynAerowyn BUZZARDS BAY, MAPosts: 7,928Member
    Originally posted by GeezerGamer

     


    Originally posted by Aerowyn

    Originally posted by GeezerGamer  

    Originally posted by Aerowyn

    Originally posted by GeezerGamer

     
      It's not about what they could have done. It's what they said they were going to do. Go to GW2 website and look up DEs "In Guild Wars 2, your actions really matter and your choices have an impact on the world around you. Instead of static, boring quests in an unchanging world, our dynamic event system creates a living, breathing world that bustles with energy and responds to player actions. Dynamic events change and evolve in response to how you interact with them, leaving lasting effects in the game world. If you save that village from ogres, they may return with siege weapons to counter attack or regroup in nearby caves. You can prevent bandits from destroying a town’s water supply or you can defend the workers who repair the damaged pumps. As in real life, every action has a consequence—intended or not." That's what they said DEs were. But what they are is an auto spawning orange circle that involves an escort quest or some variation such as defending a location, which is just a stationary escort quest.
    again in your perspective.. yes they exaggerate a little especially when talking about early DE's but over I feel they do add to the feeling of a living world 100x more than static quest hub games.. yes they repeat but it's a balance thing trying to allow maximum # of players enjoy the content.. How much would it suck if a huge giant trampled a town to the ground and it was down for weeks and you just happened to miss that epic fight?... They have said DE's will be expanded upon and changed up so well see what the future holds for them.
      I hope they do. Because at levels 20, 30 and 50, I've seen little variation in them, and While I hear they become more involved at higher levels, It's still an issue if I have to wait 50 levels before I start seeing it.
    yes there are lots of repeat event types but each one does have a story and purpose if you follow them through from start to end.. obviously some more elaborate than others and Iv'e noticed the higher I get the cause and effect is little more lasting and obvious. Issue now is oversaturation of zones just too many people causing very few to actually fail(yes they scale but only so far) not allowing you to see effects of failed events because you just don't see them fail as often.. Plenty have osme nice cause and effect even in early levels there's a couple threads on this in the PVE section.

     

    OK, each has a story, and they are supposed to build off each other, but it's like what Iron said. I must be walking into it half way. But then what do you suggest for that? I'm wandering through the zone looking for areas I have yet to complete and I see the orange bar pop up on my screen and I hustle as fast as I can over to it. But this experiences is far to common. Wandering around and DEs are already in progress. I can't control that, I simply can go with it. So then, why is the story important anymore?

    another issue of overpopulation.. all the events are started by someone else so you don't get the full effect of seeing them all the way through.. best thing would be to try out a new character once the population settles a little bit more to get the full effect of the DE questing.. to me though quests/events happening without me there and letting me join in at any point of them is what adds to the living breathing word which to me is way more immersive than the traditional quest hub approach.. but this adds a lot of replayability as you play a zone a second time and you see events at differn't parts and some all the way through.. it's one of the reasons I find going through the same zone multiple times not even close to as repetative as other MMOs

    I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  • eye_meye_m Notta Chance, ABPosts: 3,133Member Uncommon

    If a player starts into the game with the mindset of previous mmo's, they can end up feeling the game is shallow because they only know how to deal with the assembly line process of other games.

    If a player walks out into the world of Tyria with a willingness to explore, they will be enthralled.

    Anet may have tried to hard to cater to these "kill ten rats to get the loot so you can kill ten pigs to get the loot so you can kill ten dogs to get the loot so you can kill ten cows to get the loot so you can kill ten bulls to get the loot so you can kill ten..." after all, this is really where the hearts system originated.

     

    Anyhow, people that can't change, can't understand or appreciate change.

    All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.

    I get banned in the forums for games I love, so lets see if I do better in the forums for games I hate.

    I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.

  • ElSandmanElSandman BrisbanePosts: 94Member
    Originally posted by Vynt
    Originally posted by Vahrane
    Originally posted by derek39

    I know the title might be a little mis-leading, But I couldn't think of anything different at the time.

    What I'm trying to say though, Is I've been playing GW2 since headstart, I'm loving every aspect of it.

    But what I notice is the game is making a lot of people who WERE saying "Give us something new in an MMO!" now say "I miss the trinity" or "Why doesn't gear matter in pvp?" "Why aren't the stats more complex?" "No raids?"  "No real endgame? WTF?" (which isn't true of course)

    But it just suprises me how a lot of people were handed something very different from the norm and then complain that it's not the same.

    Why don't these people become accountants or something if they love numbers and more of the same everyday?

    Sorry that this is a rant post. I guess I just don't understand MMO gamers of today. But then again. I don't think even THEY know what they really want...Thoughts?

          When people are simply asking for a more innovative product I see it as asking for vastly improved old features (that is improvements to the fundamentals of mmo group combat like aggro mechanics and hate generation e.g. monsters responding to an attack being initiated instead of only after its gone off) or for entirely new features. You basically just demonstrated GW2 took things away instead of adding new or vastly improved features to the genre. Why can't we have groups designed around more of a quartet rather than a trinity but have some of the roles be variable?

        These are just some of the things I consider when I look at how innovative a game really is. GW2 tried to do a few thinks differently, as you stated, with the result being that some like it and and some do not, however, I feel it didn't cause the genre to progress in any truly noticeable/meaningful way.

    The older games use to be based around 4 or even 5 roles, some variable. it just kept getting dumbed down through the years, to a trinity, to just 2 jobs, or everyone a hybrid etc.

    Take EQ for example. That was not a trinity. Try doing anything late in the game with just a tank, healer, dps roles. Not going to succeed. You needed CC, needed slows, buffs/debuffs. That was a 4th role for sure, sometimes added a 5th. Like having your tank, healer, dps, but your enchanter for cc, with some slows buffs, but maybe had a shaman too for more buffs better slow, or a bard in there. Also you had a puller, that could be dps, or like the bard, part of the support. It wasn't so limited as just a normal trinity.

    Daoc was like that too. Needed that cc/support, speed, especially for pvp. Often didn't really even need a tank in pvp, but they could really make a difference. The roles and interaction between classes were greater, and more dynamic.

    WoW was more a trinity. Tank, healer, dps. CC was minor and not a specialty of anyone. They ended up getting even more hybrid types in game. You can see the progression of the game being simplified, dumbed down during each expansion. Choices being reduced, limited, removed altogether. Total revamps with less variety.

     

    It just seems each new game keeps simplifying it more and more, probably to appeal to a more casual market, and it is just creating a poorer experience.

    I've played MMOs without healers before, where anyone could pretty much "tank", popping heal pots all the time, and it just seemed boring.

    I just want a MMO where there are more roles than just 2 or 3, maybe 4 or 5 like before, where everyone cannot do everything, and groups are bigger than 4 or 5 people. I want to specialize, I want to be able to maximize my ability in my specialization. I don't want to be able to change from tank to dps to healer group to group, or be forced to when I just really want to be a healer with cc, or a puller etc. Not advocating classes can do just one thing, but not do everything equally well. My shaman in EQ was great at buffing, debuffing, could do some nice dmg with pet and dots, and even be a healer, but wasn't the best at every role.

     

    Sorry for what turned into a rant, lol, just tired of seeing the simplification of the genre and it being called innovation.

    I think you sum up my opinion of the changes/removal of roles in the game.  When at least some of us were clamoring for change, we weren't clamoring for any change, and what we got here, at least in respect to roles (but in other areas as well) was change in the wrong direction.  Instead of seeing an evolution of role based gameplay (or return to the genre's roots) we have seen the trend of simiplification taken to its ultimate end.  The end result seems to be a bit bland and boring.

     

    So yes, I too would like to see a return to more complex role based gameplay required for the harder challenges in the game, including the OMG you might have to actually talk to people to form the required groups to tackle such challenges.

     

  • ProbertProbert Williamsport, PAPosts: 18Member

    What is this change you talk about? Seriously there is nothing differnt GW2 has offered. This is my opinion.

    I just find the game very boring, I logged and was just bored with the same old same old. Not saying people cant enjoy the game I'm glad that people do. Game just isnt for me.

    To the people that say the content in GW2 is hard and challenging, I'm not sure if they've played another MMO or a MMO ever in their life, GW2 content has been the easiest i've ever seen in any MMO to date that I have played and I have played alot of them.

  • StoneRosesStoneRoses Seattle, WAPosts: 1,066Member Uncommon
    Just waiting for these folks to finally move on to another MMO so they can rinse and repeat the same scenario.

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