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People like the old way?....

derek39derek39 monett, MOPosts: 155Member Uncommon

I know the title might be a little mis-leading, But I couldn't think of anything different at the time.

What I'm trying to say though, Is I've been playing GW2 since headstart, I'm loving every aspect of it.

But what I notice is the game is making a lot of people who WERE saying "Give us something new in an MMO!" now say "I miss the trinity" or "Why doesn't gear matter in pvp?" "Why aren't the stats more complex?" "No raids?"  "No real endgame? WTF?" (which isn't true of course)

But it just suprises me how a lot of people were handed something very different from the norm and then complain that it's not the same.

Why don't these people become accountants or something if they love numbers and more of the same everyday?

Sorry that this is a rant post. I guess I just don't understand MMO gamers of today. But then again. I don't think even THEY know what they really want...Thoughts?

Monster Hunter Veteran since '04.
Currently playing: MH4U, Bloodborne, FFXIV, and a bit of GW2 on the side.

«13

Comments

  • XerithXerith Richardson, TXPosts: 970Member
    Some people just wan't to complain about everything. You could hand these people a giant sack of cash, and they will complain that its too heavy. All you can do is ignore them, close the post and find something better to read....it's what I do. 
  • JackdogJackdog Charleston, SCPosts: 6,344Member
    I would venture to say  that some lack the motor skills or motivation to learn to move when in combat a turn off also.

    I miss DAoC

  • SirenRoseSirenRose Anderson, INPosts: 28Member

    The problem is everyone keeps looking at mmo players and talking about them like they are one entity with one mind.  No wonder we as a community look so biopolar and like we don't know what we want.  Granted some of us may actually be bipolar.  Some of us may not know what we want.  But the truth is that mmo players encompass a vast and very diverse group of people with gaming expectations that range to include everything under the sun.  You can never make everyone happy all the time, and if you try to do just that, you set yourself up for failure.  This is true in life, and it is true in the world of mmos.

    Playing: None
    Have Played: City of Heroes, Guild Wars, World of Warcraft, Fallen Earth, Diablo 3, DC Universe Online, Marvel Heroes, Guild Wars 2, Star Wars The Old Republic

  • VahraneVahrane Alpharetta, GAPosts: 375Member
    Originally posted by derek39

    I know the title might be a little mis-leading, But I couldn't think of anything different at the time.

    What I'm trying to say though, Is I've been playing GW2 since headstart, I'm loving every aspect of it.

    But what I notice is the game is making a lot of people who WERE saying "Give us something new in an MMO!" now say "I miss the trinity" or "Why doesn't gear matter in pvp?" "Why aren't the stats more complex?" "No raids?"  "No real endgame? WTF?" (which isn't true of course)

    But it just suprises me how a lot of people were handed something very different from the norm and then complain that it's not the same.

    Why don't these people become accountants or something if they love numbers and more of the same everyday?

    Sorry that this is a rant post. I guess I just don't understand MMO gamers of today. But then again. I don't think even THEY know what they really want...Thoughts?

          When people are simply asking for a more innovative product I see it as asking for vastly improved old features (that is improvements to the fundamentals of mmo group combat like aggro mechanics and hate generation e.g. monsters responding to an attack being initiated instead of only after its gone off) or for entirely new features. You basically just demonstrated GW2 took things away instead of adding new or vastly improved features to the genre. Why can't we have groups designed around more of a quartet rather than a trinity but have some of the roles be variable?

        These are just some of the things I consider when I look at how innovative a game really is. GW2 tried to do a few thinks differently, as you stated, with the result being that some like it and and some do not, however, I feel it didn't cause the genre to progress in any truly noticeable/meaningful way.

  • derek39derek39 monett, MOPosts: 155Member Uncommon

    Good replies and I understand we're not all the same.

    But jeez are people more bipolar than ever these days.

    I know that I sure can't go back to watching a dps meter, gear scores, easy content, over hyped raids...I just won't do it! Haha

    Anyways as always, ENJOY playing your video games(or math games) peoples. Just thought I'd spark a discussion for a few. =]

    Monster Hunter Veteran since '04.
    Currently playing: MH4U, Bloodborne, FFXIV, and a bit of GW2 on the side.

  • grimalgrimal Stamford, CTPosts: 2,873Member Uncommon

    Ummm, didn't they say something along the lines of...if you like MMOs, you  should try our game?

    Well, a lot of people here like MMOs and seems like they have some complaints about the game.  Maybe they should have left that group out.

  • PsychowPsychow SF Giants Territory, CAPosts: 1,784Member
    Originally posted by derek39

    I know the title might be a little mis-leading, But I couldn't think of anything different at the time.

    What I'm trying to say though, Is I've been playing GW2 since headstart, I'm loving every aspect of it.

    But what I notice is the game is making a lot of people who WERE saying "Give us something new in an MMO!" now say "I miss the trinity" or "Why doesn't gear matter in pvp?" "Why aren't the stats more complex?" "No raids?"  "No real endgame? WTF?" (which isn't true of course)

    But it just suprises me how a lot of people were handed something very different from the norm and then complain that it's not the same.

    Why don't these people become accountants or something if they love numbers and more of the same everyday?

    Sorry that this is a rant post. I guess I just don't understand MMO gamers of today. But then again. I don't think even THEY know what they really want...Thoughts?

     

    That would be just crazy....

  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    No raids (well EQ/ wow style raids) is a plus. One of the main things that attracted me to the game.
  • derek39derek39 monett, MOPosts: 155Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Vahrane
    Originally posted by derek39

    I know the title might be a little mis-leading, But I couldn't think of anything different at the time.

    What I'm trying to say though, Is I've been playing GW2 since headstart, I'm loving every aspect of it.

    But what I notice is the game is making a lot of people who WERE saying "Give us something new in an MMO!" now say "I miss the trinity" or "Why doesn't gear matter in pvp?" "Why aren't the stats more complex?" "No raids?"  "No real endgame? WTF?" (which isn't true of course)

    But it just suprises me how a lot of people were handed something very different from the norm and then complain that it's not the same.

    Why don't these people become accountants or something if they love numbers and more of the same everyday?

    Sorry that this is a rant post. I guess I just don't understand MMO gamers of today. But then again. I don't think even THEY know what they really want...Thoughts?

          When people are simply asking for a more innovative product I see it as asking for vastly improved old features (that is improvements to the fundamentals of mmo group combat like aggro mechanics and hate generation e.g. monsters responding to an attack being initiated instead of only after its gone off) or for entirely new features. You basically just demonstrated GW2 took things away instead of adding new or vastly improved features to the genre. Why can't we have groups designed around more of a quartet rather than a trinity but have some of the roles be variable?

        These are just some of the things I consider when I look at how innovative a game really is. GW2 tried to do a few thinks differently, as you stated, with the result being that some like it and and some do not, however, I feel it didn't cause the genre to progress in any truly noticeable/meaningful way.

    What you're asking just isn't possible and you're taking what I said out of context...

    May I suggest Monster Hunter to you? =D It's not an MMO, But the aggro system in a group is somewhat what you explained =P I just don't think that's possible in an MMO though. Maybe not currently. But I don't see anything coming to MMOs that will BLOW YOUR MIND, If you didn't think GW2 was that different.

    Anyways I do respect your opinion and with that Adieu.

    Monster Hunter Veteran since '04.
    Currently playing: MH4U, Bloodborne, FFXIV, and a bit of GW2 on the side.

  • derek39derek39 monett, MOPosts: 155Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Psychow
    Originally posted by derek39

    Why don't these people become accountants or something if they love numbers and more of the same everyday?

     That would be just crazy....

    Gotta admit there is truth to it though, no? 

    Monster Hunter Veteran since '04.
    Currently playing: MH4U, Bloodborne, FFXIV, and a bit of GW2 on the side.

  • svandysvandy mount holly, NJPosts: 217Member Uncommon

    The response to GW2 is really interesting to me because the game has, for the most part, delivered everything the *general community* of MMORPG fans have been clamoring for the most. A huge open PVP map with keep seiges, incentive to explore, no gear treadmill (at least not a significant one), gear doesn't matter in PVP, no quest hubs and linear progression, etc etc. The only big ticket items that come to mind which aren't offered up front are housing and raids (though a ton of people hate raids, so there is that).

    Yet still the game, while getting almost nothing but positive feedback, gets a good deal of negative feedback about the very same things so many people wanted in the first place. To me it just shows that the genre needs to evolve, and it needs to really soon. It has been said a million times, but the industry needs to break away from the WoW model, and GW2 is the first wildly successful game to do so, so I think things are looking good. I, personally, really want to see a game where I can get more attached to my character, which sadly GW2 doesn't offer, but whatever.

    I'm enjoying GW2 immensely, though I do share some of the community's concerns about the games longevity. Yes, PvP is the endgame, but are they going to deliver expansions with considerable upgrades to the PvP elements of the game before players get bored? WvW is my personal favorite thing to do in GW2, but I already find myself asking "why?" sometimes. I hate to say it, but we as MMORPG players have, for the most part, been conditioned to want some kind of tangible rewards for what we do in order for us to keep on doing it. Just because its fun works the first time, maybe even the first dozen times, but eventually you've got "been there done that" syndrome.

    Please visit my youtube channel for some H1Z1/DayZ casual roleplay videos!


  • VahraneVahrane Alpharetta, GAPosts: 375Member
    Originally posted by derek39
    Originally posted by Vahrane
    Originally posted by derek39

    I know the title might be a little mis-leading, But I couldn't think of anything different at the time.

    What I'm trying to say though, Is I've been playing GW2 since headstart, I'm loving every aspect of it.

    But what I notice is the game is making a lot of people who WERE saying "Give us something new in an MMO!" now say "I miss the trinity" or "Why doesn't gear matter in pvp?" "Why aren't the stats more complex?" "No raids?"  "No real endgame? WTF?" (which isn't true of course)

    But it just suprises me how a lot of people were handed something very different from the norm and then complain that it's not the same.

    Why don't these people become accountants or something if they love numbers and more of the same everyday?

    Sorry that this is a rant post. I guess I just don't understand MMO gamers of today. But then again. I don't think even THEY know what they really want...Thoughts?

          When people are simply asking for a more innovative product I see it as asking for vastly improved old features (that is improvements to the fundamentals of mmo group combat like aggro mechanics and hate generation e.g. monsters responding to an attack being initiated instead of only after its gone off) or for entirely new features. You basically just demonstrated GW2 took things away instead of adding new or vastly improved features to the genre. Why can't we have groups designed around more of a quartet rather than a trinity but have some of the roles be variable?

        These are just some of the things I consider when I look at how innovative a game really is. GW2 tried to do a few thinks differently, as you stated, with the result being that some like it and and some do not, however, I feel it didn't cause the genre to progress in any truly noticeable/meaningful way.

    What you're asking just isn't possible and you're taking what I said out of context...

    May I suggest Monster Hunter to you? =D It's not an MMO, But the aggro system in a group is somewhat what you explained =P I just don't think that's possible in an MMO though. Maybe not currently. But I don't see anything coming to MMOs that will BLOW YOUR MIND, If you didn't think GW2 was that different.

    Anyways I do respect your opinion and with that Adieu.

          It's not at all impossible. It would require some fancier programing for sure though. Basically have a the mob setup to understand certain conditions for example, if player 1-6 start casting an ability with a long timer, lets say fireball, then monster should charge that opponent. So basically just create a condition on the mob being if fireball casting timer = yes then attack that player = yes (simple if then statement). Certain actions could, at times, provoke different reactions meaning the mob may instead shield itself to that same fireball instead of attacking. I'm not sure how you see this as impossible!

  • PsychowPsychow SF Giants Territory, CAPosts: 1,784Member
    Originally posted by derek39
    Originally posted by Psychow
    Originally posted by derek39

    Why don't these people become accountants or something if they love numbers and more of the same everyday?

     That would be just crazy....

    Gotta admit there is truth to it though, no? 

     

    Maybe. I am an accountant and prefer the old ways. I didn't ask for these changes. That doesn't mean I don't enjoy both tho. But if I had to pick one, I'd go with the older tried-and-true methods.

  • YakkinYakkin irvine, CAPosts: 919Member
    Originally posted by SirenRose

    The problem is everyone keeps looking at mmo players and talking about them like they are one entity with one mind.  No wonder we as a community look so biopolar and like we don't know what we want.  Granted some of us may actually be bipolar.  Some of us may not know what we want.  But the truth is that mmo players encompass a vast and very diverse group of people with gaming expectations that range to include everything under the sun.  You can never make everyone happy all the time, and if you try to do just that, you set yourself up for failure.  This is true in life, and it is true in the world of mmos.

    Sounds like we need more niche MMOs then. Pity that it seems like every MMO gamer won't even look at a niche MMO if it doesn't cost 200 million dollars to make.

  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer ChairPosts: 5,586Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by derek39
    I know the title might be a little mis-leading, But I couldn't think of anything different at the time.What I'm trying to say though, Is I've been playing GW2 since headstart, I'm loving every aspect of it.But what I notice is the game is making a lot of people who WERE saying "Give us something new in an MMO!" now say "I miss the trinity" or "Why doesn't gear matter in pvp?" "Why aren't the stats more complex?" "No raids?"  "No real endgame? WTF?" (which isn't true of course)But it just suprises me how a lot of people were handed something very different from the norm and then complain that it's not the same.Why don't these people become accountants or something if they love numbers and more of the same everyday?Sorry that this is a rant post. I guess I just don't understand MMO gamers of today. But then again. I don't think even THEY know what they really want...Thoughts?

    You made the statement that people complained because they asked for something new and weren't happy when they got it. But that's not the issue for many. People are upset because for so long we were told GW2 will be different. And once you get below the presentation of it, very little is new or different and that's why people are upset.

  • AerowynAerowyn BUZZARDS BAY, MAPosts: 7,928Member
    Originally posted by GeezerGamer

     


    Originally posted by derek39
    I know the title might be a little mis-leading, But I couldn't think of anything different at the time.

     

    What I'm trying to say though, Is I've been playing GW2 since headstart, I'm loving every aspect of it.

    But what I notice is the game is making a lot of people who WERE saying "Give us something new in an MMO!" now say "I miss the trinity" or "Why doesn't gear matter in pvp?" "Why aren't the stats more complex?" "No raids?"  "No real endgame? WTF?" (which isn't true of course)

    But it just suprises me how a lot of people were handed something very different from the norm and then complain that it's not the same.

    Why don't these people become accountants or something if they love numbers and more of the same everyday?

    Sorry that this is a rant post. I guess I just don't understand MMO gamers of today. But then again. I don't think even THEY know what they really want...Thoughts?


     

    You made the statement that people complained because they asked for something new and weren't happy when they got it. But that's not the issue for many. People are upset because for so long we were told GW2 will be different. And once you get below the presentation of it, very little is new or different and that's why people are upset.

    i guess in their perspective.. i find the game offers more new and interesting features than any MMO of the last decade.. all perception I guess

    I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  • derek39derek39 monett, MOPosts: 155Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Vahrane

          It's not at all impossible. It would require some fancier programing for sure though. Basically have a the mob setup to understand certain conditions for example, if player 1-6 start casting an ability with a long timer, lets say fireball, then monster should charge that opponent. So basically just create a condition on the mob being if fireball casting timer = yes then attack that player = yes (simple if then statement). Certain actions could, at times, provoke different reactions meaning the mob may instead shield itself to that same fireball instead of attacking. I'm not sure how you see this as impossible!

    That's what I'm saying. The programming would be a NIGHTMARE. Monster Hunter has this kind of aggro system. But it's not an MMO and not an open world game. For that exact reason. =P

    IF it happens. My hat is off, and I'm bowing to the programming team that makes something like THAT work.

     

    Also. I think a lot of people's problems with GW2 is they are TRYING their HARDEST to play it like every other MMO. "I need to go to THIS renown heart cause it's my first quest!" then the next one, then the next one. Just to find out that they are underleveled to get into the next area. So they feel like they gotta grind. Which is absolutely not the case.

    Ya gotta treat it like it's dynamic (which it is) or the game is going to be a pain for you.

    Monster Hunter Veteran since '04.
    Currently playing: MH4U, Bloodborne, FFXIV, and a bit of GW2 on the side.

  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer ChairPosts: 5,586Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by Aerowyn
    Originally posted by GeezerGamer   Originally posted by derek39 I know the title might be a little mis-leading, But I couldn't think of anything different at the time.   What I'm trying to say though, Is I've been playing GW2 since headstart, I'm loving every aspect of it. But what I notice is the game is making a lot of people who WERE saying "Give us something new in an MMO!" now say "I miss the trinity" or "Why doesn't gear matter in pvp?" "Why aren't the stats more complex?" "No raids?"  "No real endgame? WTF?" (which isn't true of course) But it just suprises me how a lot of people were handed something very different from the norm and then complain that it's not the same. Why don't these people become accountants or something if they love numbers and more of the same everyday? Sorry that this is a rant post. I guess I just don't understand MMO gamers of today. But then again. I don't think even THEY know what they really want...Thoughts?
      You made the statement that people complained because they asked for something new and weren't happy when they got it. But that's not the issue for many. People are upset because for so long we were told GW2 will be different. And once you get below the presentation of it, very little is new or different and that's why people are upset.
    i guess in their perspective.. i find the game offers more new and interesting features than any MMO of the last decade.. all perception I guess


    You are right. It's absolutely a matter of opinion. I recognize that GW2 delivers everything many ever wanted it too. But not everyone shares that opinion and I wanted to be clear that not everyone is upset because they didn't get WoW.

  • derek39derek39 monett, MOPosts: 155Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by GeezerGamer

     


    You are right. It's absolutely a matter of opinion. I recognize that GW2 delivers everything many ever wanted it too. But not everyone shares that opinion and I wanted to be clear that not everyone is upset because they didn't get WoW.

    Oh yes, Everything related to entertainment is a matter of opinion from every brain across the globe.

    But....What else exactly CAN they do different with MMO's?

    Meh, Let's save that discussion for another thread. This one is pretty much finished lol.

    Monster Hunter Veteran since '04.
    Currently playing: MH4U, Bloodborne, FFXIV, and a bit of GW2 on the side.

  • solarinesolarine IstanbulPosts: 1,203Member
    Originally posted by SirenRose

    The problem is everyone keeps looking at mmo players and talking about them like they are one entity with one mind.  No wonder we as a community look so biopolar and like we don't know what we want.  Granted some of us may actually be bipolar.  Some of us may not know what we want.  But the truth is that mmo players encompass a vast and very diverse group of people with gaming expectations that range to include everything under the sun.  You can never make everyone happy all the time, and if you try to do just that, you set yourself up for failure.  This is true in life, and it is true in the world of mmos.

    Pretty much.

    First: Are you certain, OP, that these people asking for a change are the same people complaining about new mechanics in GW2?

    Second: Might it just be that some players were actually asking about far bolder "changes" than what GW2 provides here? 

    And third: If you're looking for a change, does that mean "any change is good"? 

     

  • AerowynAerowyn BUZZARDS BAY, MAPosts: 7,928Member
    Originally posted by derek39
    Originally posted by GeezerGamer

     


    You are right. It's absolutely a matter of opinion. I recognize that GW2 delivers everything many ever wanted it too. But not everyone shares that opinion and I wanted to be clear that not everyone is upset because they didn't get WoW.

    Oh yes, Everything related to entertainment is a matter of opinion from every brain across the globe.

    But....What else exactly CAN they do different with MMO's?

    Meh, Let's save that discussion for another thread. This one is pretty much finished lol.

    and that's why if they put out the most amazingly perfect sanbox/themepark hybrid.. people would still be bitching nonstop that it isn't what they expected or wanted.

    I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  • SuprGamerXSuprGamerX Montreal, QCPosts: 531Member
    Originally posted by derek39

    I know the title might be a little mis-leading, But I couldn't think of anything different at the time.

    What I'm trying to say though, Is I've been playing GW2 since headstart, I'm loving every aspect of it.

    But what I notice is the game is making a lot of people who WERE saying "Give us something new in an MMO!" now say "I miss the trinity" or "Why doesn't gear matter in pvp?" "Why aren't the stats more complex?" "No raids?"  "No real endgame? WTF?" (which isn't true of course)

    But it just suprises me how a lot of people were handed something very different from the norm and then complain that it's not the same.

    Why don't these people become accountants or something if they love numbers and more of the same everyday?

    Sorry that this is a rant post. I guess I just don't understand MMO gamers of today. But then again. I don't think even THEY know what they really want...Thoughts?

    I've said it countless times and I'll say it again , P2P brings out the best community in a MMO.   F2P/B2P only brings idiotic unskilled gamers that can't do anything and just whine and bitch 24/7.  With a P2P those cry babies will cry for a month and gtfo then we get some peace of quiet.   THANK GOD I still have EVE-Online , the day that EVE goes F2P , it will be the end of the MMO universe and my 18 years playing experience in MMO's!!!

  • AerowynAerowyn BUZZARDS BAY, MAPosts: 7,928Member
    Originally posted by SuprGamerX
    Originally posted by derek39

    I know the title might be a little mis-leading, But I couldn't think of anything different at the time.

    What I'm trying to say though, Is I've been playing GW2 since headstart, I'm loving every aspect of it.

    But what I notice is the game is making a lot of people who WERE saying "Give us something new in an MMO!" now say "I miss the trinity" or "Why doesn't gear matter in pvp?" "Why aren't the stats more complex?" "No raids?"  "No real endgame? WTF?" (which isn't true of course)

    But it just suprises me how a lot of people were handed something very different from the norm and then complain that it's not the same.

    Why don't these people become accountants or something if they love numbers and more of the same everyday?

    Sorry that this is a rant post. I guess I just don't understand MMO gamers of today. But then again. I don't think even THEY know what they really want...Thoughts?

    I've said it countless times and I'll say it again , P2P brings out the best community in a MMO.   F2P/B2P only brings idiotic unskilled gamers that can't do anything and just whine and bitch 24/7.  With a P2P those cry babies will cry for a month and gtfo then we get some peace of quiet.   THANK GOD I still have EVE-Online , the day that EVE goes F2P , it will be the end of the MMO universe and my 18 years playing experience in MMO's!!!

    hasn't been my experience over the past 15 years of playing these games.. not at all.. really it's the game itself and how the mechanics are setup overall I found that dicated how well the community developed.

    I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  • TheIronLegionTheIronLegion Columbia, SCPosts: 269Member
    Originally posted by GeezerGamer

     


    Originally posted by derek39
    I know the title might be a little mis-leading, But I couldn't think of anything different at the time.

     

    What I'm trying to say though, Is I've been playing GW2 since headstart, I'm loving every aspect of it.

    But what I notice is the game is making a lot of people who WERE saying "Give us something new in an MMO!" now say "I miss the trinity" or "Why doesn't gear matter in pvp?" "Why aren't the stats more complex?" "No raids?"  "No real endgame? WTF?" (which isn't true of course)

    But it just suprises me how a lot of people were handed something very different from the norm and then complain that it's not the same.

    Why don't these people become accountants or something if they love numbers and more of the same everyday?

    Sorry that this is a rant post. I guess I just don't understand MMO gamers of today. But then again. I don't think even THEY know what they really want...Thoughts?

     


     

    You made the statement that people complained because they asked for something new and weren't happy when they got it. But that's not the issue for many. People are upset because for so long we were told GW2 will be different. And once you get below the presentation of it, very little is new or different and that's why people are upset.

    I guess once you get past the presentation of any game then no game will ever give us anything new. Shooters, though there are a ton that are vastly different, underneat all the shiny graphics, varying guns, and cool announcer voice-overs they are all exactly the same. You point and shoot. Hard to innovate on something so exactly defined.

    The MMO, in the grand scheme of things, is a bit less strictly defined as an MMO could be anything. But one thing remains; since the early days of MMO's several things have come to be expected from anything wishing to call itself an MMO. You must be able to connect to several others users at once, chat, quest together, group, topple giants, play together. Ofcours there are more specific systems as well: Combat, quest, trade, PvP. Things like this have come to be expected by everyone. Consequently they'll judge every new feature that's added based on older similar features. Even if the feature changes the way something is done or adds something else that is entirely different from anything preceeding it; It will always be judged by its older features. So saying that "below the presentation of it, very little is new or different" is like saying "underneath the hood of that Ford, if you look past the V8, the reimagined cooling system, 11,300 lbs. trailer weight limit, Integrated Trailer Brake Controller (TBC), and its internal full steel fram...it presents nothing new to trucks as it is still a truck that tows things, right?

    The way I've always seen it is like this: Once something is made the only way to innovate past it is to add newer features and he who has the best features wins. Unless, of course, you just want to make something entirely new. In which case you'd have your own genre of ....well, stuff.

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  • YakkinYakkin irvine, CAPosts: 919Member
    Originally posted by SuprGamerX

    I've said it countless times and I'll say it again , P2P brings out the best community in a MMO.   F2P/B2P only brings idiotic unskilled gamers that can't do anything and just whine and bitch 24/7.  With a P2P those cry babies will cry for a month and gtfo then we get some peace of quiet.   THANK GOD I still have EVE-Online , the day that EVE goes F2P , it will be the end of the MMO universe and my 18 years playing experience in MMO's!!!

    That, IMO, is total bullshit good sir.

    Pay to play, I would argue, can bring in even worse players than either F2P or B2P because P2P MMOs are more dependent on subscription numbers than either B2P or F2P, and thus can't really afford to ban any of the players who do act like asshats lest they want to see a drop in their sub count. Hell, that's the mentality that WoW devs seem to have, at least based on my experiences.

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