The reddit post referenced by the OP in this thread is wrong. If a game caters to masses it will (and does) sell...
... and therein lies the rub...
If you make a game specifically to appeal to masses so you profit, people who want "something good" or "something real" or "something different" will protest and call the spade a spade. In my personal opinion those devs are "the ones driving the genre into the ground" rehashing concepts just a little different over and over and over until they're totally disinteresting. Blaming the consumers/critics begs an argument of "trying to fool all the people all the time"~paraphrased, attributed to A. Lincoln.
Devs need/have to make money or they won't be making games anymore. It is always safer to go with the tried, test and true, than try something radically different.
In all fairness in these troubling financial times games could simply be in decline and of lower priority in worried people's lives to cutback and save penny's for more important bills.
Originally posted by nixium In all fairness in these troubling financial times games could simply be in decline and of lower priority in worried people's lives to cutback and save penny's for more important bills.
In all fairness, I probably spend less due to my gaming addition than I would if I wasn't a gamer. People need to have some entertainment in their lives and gaming is a very inexpensive form of entertainment.
(To add humor) If someone doesn't leave their mom's basement...they won't be spending money!!
They don't want to play MMOs and DEVs no longer make MMOs so this is what you get. When I state anything like that I get banned but most of the MMO gamers (used loosely) do not want to play MMOs. They also do not know what they want and will always complain not matter what they are given.
#1. They turned level cap progression from 250+ hours down to 50+ because players screamed that they want it easier (faster). With that you end up with a game that a casual can consume in a month, and a content locust can consume in a week.
#2. Storyline content has little to no replay value. Experience the story. Been there, done that. No reason to do it again.
Add these two together and a game has no longevity. Blaming it on the players is just a cop-out.
Ken Fisher - Semi retired old fart Network Administrator, now working in Network Security. I don't Forum PVP. If you feel I've attacked you, it was probably by accident. When I don't understand, I ask. Such is not intended as criticism.
I would have to say that I agree with this person. There are people out there that see a game as something to be conquered. The end game is all that maters and the best gear is the ultimate goal.. but then what?
Instead of seeing the game as a place to be and spend your time, people want to beat the game. But how many can say they have experienced a game fully? been over the world more times than they care to count.
Take WOW for a moment. How many have left the game because they got bored with the raiding? now how many of those had been to the Spa in Un'gro Crater? Or been to the gates in Sithilis before they were opened?
I know when MOP is released it will only be a few hours .. maybe a day before you hear and see ... World Firsts happening .. but did they enjoy the game or was that it? Was scarffing down the content and getting done fast worth it? Will they be leaving because there is nothing to do at the end?
You can rush through life, but life will not rush through you.
Cable companies are struggling with constant customer loss that can't be replaced. This is because the TV is so bad and it has chased away many of that viewers it once had.
The reason companies put reality TV out is not because it gets record breaking viewers. They put it out because it is the cheapest stuff to make so it doesn't need as many viewers to be successful the way expensive dramas do.
Those are the true facts.
The movie industry is also at one of its lowest profitability levels in all of history. This is because many people feel the majority of the movies coming out are crap.
Basically your argument is missing out on all of the actual facts. Television, movies and gaming markets (most notably MMOs) are having trouble. Part of it is the economy, part of it is because of the crap products being put out there.
Umm you toss out a lot of statements as fact here. I'd like to see the sources for all these "facts."
Not exactly. Kim Ki Duk, Lars Von Trier, Wong Kar Wai and the likes keep doing excellent movies. However, just a bunch of theatres are showing their movies in my city while all the rest are offering Transformers 14 and Alien vs Predator vs Mario Bross.
Another example: I recently got the Bad Salad first album (actually first long play if that makes any sense nowadays), and I think it's an awesome band with really talented musicians. But Justin Bieber is outselling them so much.
Yet another example: Most famous restaurant in the world? McDonnalds.
Face it. People like crap so companies give them crap.
Not exactly. Kim Ki Duk, Lars Von Trier, Wong Kar Wai and the likes keep doing excellent movies. However, just a bunch of theatres are showing their movies in my city while all the rest are offering Transformers 14 and Alien vs Predator vs Mario Bross.
Call me out for loving crap, but... Good God, I would watch the shit out of that movie.
Cable companies are struggling with constant customer loss that can't be replaced. This is because the TV is so bad and it has chased away many of that viewers it once had.
The reason companies put reality TV out is not because it gets record breaking viewers. They put it out because it is the cheapest stuff to make so it doesn't need as many viewers to be successful the way expensive dramas do.
Those are the true facts.
The movie industry is also at one of its lowest profitability levels in all of history. This is because many people feel the majority of the movies coming out are crap.
Basically your argument is missing out on all of the actual facts. Television, movies and gaming markets (most notably MMOs) are having trouble. Part of it is the economy, part of it is because of the crap products being put out there.
Umm you toss out a lot of statements as fact here. I'd like to see the sources for all these "facts."
Google or follow the news once in a while, the information is out there.
Cable companies are struggling with constant customer loss that can't be replaced. This is because the TV is so bad and it has chased away many of that viewers it once had.
The reason companies put reality TV out is not because it gets record breaking viewers. They put it out because it is the cheapest stuff to make so it doesn't need as many viewers to be successful the way expensive dramas do.
Those are the true facts.
The movie industry is also at one of its lowest profitability levels in all of history. This is because many people feel the majority of the movies coming out are crap.
Basically your argument is missing out on all of the actual facts. Television, movies and gaming markets (most notably MMOs) are having trouble. Part of it is the economy, part of it is because of the crap products being put out there.
Umm you toss out a lot of statements as fact here. I'd like to see the sources for all these "facts."
Google or follow the news once in a while, the information is out there.
I do. Funny, I don't seem to see that news anywhere. Sure, I can find the occasionally commentator voicing his or her opinion....but that's all it is, opinion. I just don't see any facts....so I am still waiting for you to cite you sources. Afterall, the burden of proof is on you.
Complete fanboy nonsense from someone who does not understand market mechanics. It is quite simple, companies create products which customers like. If they don't like it then they wont buy it, period. You cant ever say that it is the customers fault for not liking your product and that is what essentially this post is saying.
So the statement that the genre is being ruined because customers dont like a certain aspect of an MMO is complete rubbish. Companies need to figure out what works and what does not, you as a consumer have only one obligation and that is to buy the products you like. If you don't like endless grinding for gear then dont buy those games but that does not mean that it can be assumed that replacing endless grinding for gear with anything will make customers like your game.
Now I am not saying that customers dont like what GW 2 has to offer as replacement for endgame, gear grinding but if they don't like it then they don't. Companies need to figure out what they like instead and cant blame customers for not liking what they do.
I don't know man. A lot of people watch reality TV and bad Movie remakes and it has been ruining the quality of both forms of entertainment. When a good movie does come out I see a lot of complaints from the same people because it didn't have enough explosions etc.....
I dont know what you mean, good movies get good ratings. The latest Batman movie was awesome and it got awesome ratings and the fact that reality TV is popular is because apparently alot of people like them and you cant blame people for what they like. Like you cant blame people if they dont like GW 2:s version of end game.
A corporations who blames customers for not buying their stuff is a corporation which will go bankrupt and this is what the OP does not get where he seems to want to blame customers for not, allegedly, liking something he likes and acting like that will ruin the genre and that is just nonsense.
They might ruin it from his point of view, like from my point of view who like Asheron's Call and Ultima Online and think the current selection of MMORPGs are not all that good, but that does not make the genre ruined.
It is actually an extremely flawed view that you have.
True facts is that TV ratings are at their all time lowest point. Cable companies are struggling with constant customer loss that can't be replaced. This is because the TV is so bad and it has chased away many of that viewers it once had. Those who stayed were the ones who enjoyed the new reality TV crapfest. The reason companies put reality TV out is not because it gets record breaking viewers. They put it out because it is the cheapest stuff to make so it doesn't need as many viewers to be successful the way expensive dramas do. Those are the true facts.
The movie industry is also at one of its lowest profitability levels in all of history. This is because many people feel the majority of the movies coming out are crap. Sure there are people who are going out and watching every Twilight movie that comes out and making that franchise money, but the industry as a whole is suffering very badly. The US market has gone down rapidly. The only thing that is helping counter act that is there are emerging world wide markets who are growing as they've now reached the technological point of putting theatres up and building it into the culture.
The same is with the MMO genre. The companies are putting out stuff that only one small segment likes. So yes, those players are buying and playing those MMOs. However, the companies are missing out on millions of other users because they do not know how to make a game those people will buy and play for long periods of time. All of the companies are fighting over the same small market segment and it is killing them all.
Actual facts are that the MMO genre is struggling to make profits and keep it alive. Many big companies have already said they won't invest any future money into MMOs because they don't see any profitability in that market at all.
Basically your argument is missing out on all of the actual facts. Television, movies and gaming markets (most notably MMOs) are having trouble. Part of it is the economy, part of it is because of the crap products being put out there.
So much talk about "facts" but I do wonder. Do you have any sources to back those up or did you just make them all up. Movie and mmorpg genre is struggling. Lol, what a bunch of drivel.
Cable companies are struggling with constant customer loss that can't be replaced. This is because the TV is so bad and it has chased away many of that viewers it once had.
The reason companies put reality TV out is not because it gets record breaking viewers. They put it out because it is the cheapest stuff to make so it doesn't need as many viewers to be successful the way expensive dramas do.
Those are the true facts.
The movie industry is also at one of its lowest profitability levels in all of history. This is because many people feel the majority of the movies coming out are crap.
Basically your argument is missing out on all of the actual facts. Television, movies and gaming markets (most notably MMOs) are having trouble. Part of it is the economy, part of it is because of the crap products being put out there.
Umm you toss out a lot of statements as fact here. I'd like to see the sources for all these "facts."
Google or follow the news once in a while, the information is out there.
Here's an excerpt from Televsion subscriber losses, I'll let you find your own articles and research:
But this quarter's losses were stark for DirecTV, which lost customers for the first time ever and for Time Warner, who lost customers for the tenth straight quarter and lost more than analysts expected. Comcast's loss of 169,000 customers was actually an improvement over previous quarters.
You can also find reports on how networks changed their programming due to loss of profitability margins on high end shows. You'll find information on how CBS decided to not follow that trend and keep putting out high cost higher quality shows. It is the most watched network on televsion as an added emphasis on how people do want good television and not reality TV.
Here is an excerpt about movie problems, again I'll let you find your own sources:
I hope you’re sitting down, because I have some difficult news to share: Almost everyone hates going to the movies. After cinema attendance hit at 16-year low last year, a new study has found that only 3% of U.S. consumers consider moviegoing “a frequent source of entertainment.” Is this news as bad as it seems? And if so, what can be done about it?
Maybe the most depressing thing about the survey in question is that it’s really easy to imagine why movies have fallen so dramatically in popularity (Two years ago, 28% of people rated moviegoing as a frequent source of entertainment, to give you an idea of just how sharp the decline is). After all, going to the movies is both expensive and, often, not that fun of an experience; bad crowds, bad seats and bad movies can all end up ruining the night out. When you start to think about all of the variables that can make moviegoing a less than optimal way to spend your time, suddenly alternative plans become much more attractive.
Hopefully with all of the layoffs, company shut downs, game shut downs etc. I don't really have to go get you excerpts about how the MMO genre isn't doing well, isn't meeting expectations, and how some companies have said there is no future in MMOs and do not want to put any money into developing new ones.
The larger the Company and the more money involved- The less risk they take and the slower they are to embrace change.
The MMO market (at this time) is beyond stale- Its in a very similar state to General Motors from years ago pushing the Hummer when Gas prices are forcing folks into economy cars- Then wondering how they could fail.
Cable companies are struggling with constant customer loss that can't be replaced. This is because the TV is so bad and it has chased away many of that viewers it once had.
The reason companies put reality TV out is not because it gets record breaking viewers. They put it out because it is the cheapest stuff to make so it doesn't need as many viewers to be successful the way expensive dramas do.
Those are the true facts.
The movie industry is also at one of its lowest profitability levels in all of history. This is because many people feel the majority of the movies coming out are crap.
Basically your argument is missing out on all of the actual facts. Television, movies and gaming markets (most notably MMOs) are having trouble. Part of it is the economy, part of it is because of the crap products being put out there.
Umm you toss out a lot of statements as fact here. I'd like to see the sources for all these "facts."
Google or follow the news once in a while, the information is out there.
I do. Funny, I don't seem to see that news anywhere. Sure, I can find the occasionally commentator voicing his or her opinion....but that's all it is, opinion. I just don't see any facts....so I am still waiting for you to cite you sources. Afterall, the burden of proof is on you.
Actually, the gross number of ticket sales seems to have been in steady decline the past 7 or 8 years now, but hard to speak to the overall profitability due to increasing average ticket prices and no telling where the cost to produce figures factor in. (or how much they make from Netflix and other alternate distribution channels)
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Cable companies are struggling with constant customer loss that can't be replaced. This is because the TV is so bad and it has chased away many of that viewers it once had.
The reason companies put reality TV out is not because it gets record breaking viewers. They put it out because it is the cheapest stuff to make so it doesn't need as many viewers to be successful the way expensive dramas do.
Those are the true facts.
The movie industry is also at one of its lowest profitability levels in all of history. This is because many people feel the majority of the movies coming out are crap.
Basically your argument is missing out on all of the actual facts. Television, movies and gaming markets (most notably MMOs) are having trouble. Part of it is the economy, part of it is because of the crap products being put out there.
Umm you toss out a lot of statements as fact here. I'd like to see the sources for all these "facts."
Google or follow the news once in a while, the information is out there.
I do. Funny, I don't seem to see that news anywhere. Sure, I can find the occasionally commentator voicing his or her opinion....but that's all it is, opinion. I just don't see any facts....so I am still waiting for you to cite you sources. Afterall, the burden of proof is on you.
Actually, the gross number of ticket sales seems to have been in steady decline the past 7 or 8 years now, but hard to speak to the overall profitability due to increasing average ticket prices and no telling where the cost to produce figures factor in. (or how much they make from Netflix and other alternate distribution channels)
It was 13 years, even worse, as I posted a little above this.
Also you can find data that, with the obvious exception of juggernaught movies like The Avengers and Dark Knight, profits have gone down per movie despite the increase in ticket costs. This is because of both the decrease in ticket sales but also the cost of making movies has gone up drastically.
Cable companies are struggling with constant customer loss that can't be replaced. This is because the TV is so bad and it has chased away many of that viewers it once had.
The reason companies put reality TV out is not because it gets record breaking viewers. They put it out because it is the cheapest stuff to make so it doesn't need as many viewers to be successful the way expensive dramas do.
Those are the true facts.
The movie industry is also at one of its lowest profitability levels in all of history. This is because many people feel the majority of the movies coming out are crap.
Basically your argument is missing out on all of the actual facts. Television, movies and gaming markets (most notably MMOs) are having trouble. Part of it is the economy, part of it is because of the crap products being put out there.
Umm you toss out a lot of statements as fact here. I'd like to see the sources for all these "facts."
Google or follow the news once in a while, the information is out there.
In other words: no, you havent got shit to back up your statements with.
Last year Avengers had one of the highest gross sales EVER. Batman also sold out beyond all expectations and there are more MMO's than ever before. SW:TOR sold over 2 million copies and has an estimated sub. base of 500.000. Rift sold over a million copies, GW2 sold over 2 million.
I may personally not like the direction the genre has taken towards a more casual type but that the genre is struggling is complete and utter rubbish.
Cable companies are struggling with constant customer loss that can't be replaced. This is because the TV is so bad and it has chased away many of that viewers it once had.
The reason companies put reality TV out is not because it gets record breaking viewers. They put it out because it is the cheapest stuff to make so it doesn't need as many viewers to be successful the way expensive dramas do.
Those are the true facts.
The movie industry is also at one of its lowest profitability levels in all of history. This is because many people feel the majority of the movies coming out are crap.
Basically your argument is missing out on all of the actual facts. Television, movies and gaming markets (most notably MMOs) are having trouble. Part of it is the economy, part of it is because of the crap products being put out there.
Umm you toss out a lot of statements as fact here. I'd like to see the sources for all these "facts."
Google or follow the news once in a while, the information is out there.
In other words: no, you havent got shit to back up your statements with.
Last year Avengers had one of the highest gross sales EVER. Batman also sold out beyond all expectations and there are more MMO's than ever before. SW:TOR sold over 2 million copies and has an estimated sub. base of 500.000. Rift sold over a million copies, GW2 sold over 2 million.
I may personally not like the direction the genre has taken towards a more casual type but that the genre is struggling is complete and utter rubbish.
Didn't read my other post did you. I'll give you a minute.
Cable companies are struggling with constant customer loss that can't be replaced. This is because the TV is so bad and it has chased away many of that viewers it once had.
The reason companies put reality TV out is not because it gets record breaking viewers. They put it out because it is the cheapest stuff to make so it doesn't need as many viewers to be successful the way expensive dramas do.
Those are the true facts.
The movie industry is also at one of its lowest profitability levels in all of history. This is because many people feel the majority of the movies coming out are crap.
Basically your argument is missing out on all of the actual facts. Television, movies and gaming markets (most notably MMOs) are having trouble. Part of it is the economy, part of it is because of the crap products being put out there.
Umm you toss out a lot of statements as fact here. I'd like to see the sources for all these "facts."
Google or follow the news once in a while, the information is out there.
Here's an excerpt from Televsion subscriber losses, I'll let you find your own articles and research:
But this quarter's losses were stark for DirecTV, which lost customers for the first time ever and for Time Warner, who lost customers for the tenth straight quarter and lost more than analysts expected. Comcast's loss of 169,000 customers was actually an improvement over previous quarters.
You can also find reports on how networks changed their programming due to loss of profitability margins on high end shows. You'll find information on how CBS decided to not follow that trend and keep putting out high cost higher quality shows. It is the most watched network on televsion as an added emphasis on how people do want good television and not reality TV.
Here is an excerpt about movie problems, again I'll let you find your own sources:
I hope you’re sitting down, because I have some difficult news to share: Almost everyone hates going to the movies. After cinema attendance hit at 16-year low last year, a new study has found that only 3% of U.S. consumers consider moviegoing “a frequent source of entertainment.” Is this news as bad as it seems? And if so, what can be done about it?
Maybe the most depressing thing about the survey in question is that it’s really easy to imagine why movies have fallen so dramatically in popularity (Two years ago, 28% of people rated moviegoing as a frequent source of entertainment, to give you an idea of just how sharp the decline is). After all, going to the movies is both expensive and, often, not that fun of an experience; bad crowds, bad seats and bad movies can all end up ruining the night out. When you start to think about all of the variables that can make moviegoing a less than optimal way to spend your time, suddenly alternative plans become much more attractive.
Hopefully with all of the layoffs, company shut downs, game shut downs etc. I don't really have to go get you excerpts about how the MMO genre isn't doing well, isn't meeting expectations, and how some companies have said there is no future in MMOs and do not want to put any money into developing new ones.
Ok, you have shown me there is a decline; that was never a point I had an issue with. But the reasons for the decline you stated as fact, I am still waiting for the evidence behind that.
If I look at my recent singleplayer rpg, DAO, ME, witcher, skyrim the games are very different. If I look at MMORPG, wow, rift, swtor and tsw the combat system is fairly similar, levelling is bit different but endgame is identical.
The ones destroying the market are the ones that release mmorpg with identical and/or underdeveloped endgame content.
Cable companies are struggling with constant customer loss that can't be replaced. This is because the TV is so bad and it has chased away many of that viewers it once had.
The reason companies put reality TV out is not because it gets record breaking viewers. They put it out because it is the cheapest stuff to make so it doesn't need as many viewers to be successful the way expensive dramas do.
Those are the true facts.
The movie industry is also at one of its lowest profitability levels in all of history. This is because many people feel the majority of the movies coming out are crap.
Basically your argument is missing out on all of the actual facts. Television, movies and gaming markets (most notably MMOs) are having trouble. Part of it is the economy, part of it is because of the crap products being put out there.
Umm you toss out a lot of statements as fact here. I'd like to see the sources for all these "facts."
Google or follow the news once in a while, the information is out there.
Here's an excerpt from Televsion subscriber losses, I'll let you find your own articles and research:
But this quarter's losses were stark for DirecTV, which lost customers for the first time ever and for Time Warner, who lost customers for the tenth straight quarter and lost more than analysts expected. Comcast's loss of 169,000 customers was actually an improvement over previous quarters.
You can also find reports on how networks changed their programming due to loss of profitability margins on high end shows. You'll find information on how CBS decided to not follow that trend and keep putting out high cost higher quality shows. It is the most watched network on televsion as an added emphasis on how people do want good television and not reality TV.
Here is an excerpt about movie problems, again I'll let you find your own sources:
I hope you’re sitting down, because I have some difficult news to share: Almost everyone hates going to the movies. After cinema attendance hit at 16-year low last year, a new study has found that only 3% of U.S. consumers consider moviegoing “a frequent source of entertainment.” Is this news as bad as it seems? And if so, what can be done about it?
Maybe the most depressing thing about the survey in question is that it’s really easy to imagine why movies have fallen so dramatically in popularity (Two years ago, 28% of people rated moviegoing as a frequent source of entertainment, to give you an idea of just how sharp the decline is). After all, going to the movies is both expensive and, often, not that fun of an experience; bad crowds, bad seats and bad movies can all end up ruining the night out. When you start to think about all of the variables that can make moviegoing a less than optimal way to spend your time, suddenly alternative plans become much more attractive.
Hopefully with all of the layoffs, company shut downs, game shut downs etc. I don't really have to go get you excerpts about how the MMO genre isn't doing well, isn't meeting expectations, and how some companies have said there is no future in MMOs and do not want to put any money into developing new ones.
Ok, you have shown me there is a decline; that was never a point I had an issue with. But the reasons for the decline you stated as fact, I am still waiting for the evidence behind that.
You're that guy, ok. You are correct. People love all television, especially reality television, that they have cancelled their service in order to stop themselves from watching to much TV. It was just too good and they couldn't control themselves.
People went to the movies less and less because they decided movies were too good and made the rest of the world seem so sad and pathetic that they forced themselves to stop going. The 13 years also stops any economic downturn reasoning so what else could it be? Clearly it is that movies are too good.
Several game studios have been shut and more downsized along with games shut down permanently because, well they were too good and it wasn't fair to the competition.
You are correct. The entertianment industry is making products that are just SO GOOD, that people have to force themselves to use them less. It is definetly, in no way shape or form, that the products are subpar and people are fed up. Never accept logical lines of thought as those are the seeds of the devil.
Cable companies are struggling with constant customer loss that can't be replaced. This is because the TV is so bad and it has chased away many of that viewers it once had.
The reason companies put reality TV out is not because it gets record breaking viewers. They put it out because it is the cheapest stuff to make so it doesn't need as many viewers to be successful the way expensive dramas do.
Those are the true facts.
The movie industry is also at one of its lowest profitability levels in all of history. This is because many people feel the majority of the movies coming out are crap.
Basically your argument is missing out on all of the actual facts. Television, movies and gaming markets (most notably MMOs) are having trouble. Part of it is the economy, part of it is because of the crap products being put out there.
Umm you toss out a lot of statements as fact here. I'd like to see the sources for all these "facts."
Google or follow the news once in a while, the information is out there.
I do. Funny, I don't seem to see that news anywhere. Sure, I can find the occasionally commentator voicing his or her opinion....but that's all it is, opinion. I just don't see any facts....so I am still waiting for you to cite you sources. Afterall, the burden of proof is on you.
Actually, the gross number of ticket sales seems to have been in steady decline the past 7 or 8 years now, but hard to speak to the overall profitability due to increasing average ticket prices and no telling where the cost to produce figures factor in. (or how much they make from Netflix and other alternate distribution channels)
The gross sales in dollars has been going up, inspite of low inflation and deep recession. If anything this chart shows that the industry is doing just fine.
Cable companies are struggling with constant customer loss that can't be replaced. This is because the TV is so bad and it has chased away many of that viewers it once had.
The reason companies put reality TV out is not because it gets record breaking viewers. They put it out because it is the cheapest stuff to make so it doesn't need as many viewers to be successful the way expensive dramas do.
Those are the true facts.
The movie industry is also at one of its lowest profitability levels in all of history. This is because many people feel the majority of the movies coming out are crap.
Basically your argument is missing out on all of the actual facts. Television, movies and gaming markets (most notably MMOs) are having trouble. Part of it is the economy, part of it is because of the crap products being put out there.
Umm you toss out a lot of statements as fact here. I'd like to see the sources for all these "facts."
Google or follow the news once in a while, the information is out there.
In other words: no, you havent got shit to back up your statements with.
Last year Avengers had one of the highest gross sales EVER. Batman also sold out beyond all expectations and there are more MMO's than ever before. SW:TOR sold over 2 million copies and has an estimated sub. base of 500.000. Rift sold over a million copies, GW2 sold over 2 million.
I may personally not like the direction the genre has taken towards a more casual type but that the genre is struggling is complete and utter rubbish.
Didn't read my other post did you. I'll give you a minute.
I read it and did not see any credi ble sources. Just text that can have written by anyone. Cite your sources.
I personally hope it collapses and all these douchy AAA companies go away. I'd rather see the real mmoRPG players pay for indy games that will create fun, community driven gameplay again. Call me an elitist, but I'm not a big fan of mainstream anything, really. Whenever a product is made for the mainstream, you can bet that generally means it has been dumbed down to oblivion. (see the iPhone 5 for example)
Those of us who are sick of this crap, are probably looking for emergent gameplay. I recieved an email frrom ANet today, talking about GW2's social gameplay, and I almost laughed myself to death. I actually enjoy GW2 as a short-term game, and I'm taking my sweet time in there, but to claim this game has any features that drive the community toward being social is ludicrous.
The features they listed were basically the mob-tagging which was referred to as "cooperative gameplay", and then PvP. Those were their advertised social features in their mass email today. What a joke.
I don't know what's going to happen with this genre, but I do believe it's eating itself. If there is no profit here and it becomes a gamble to make MMO, they will be gone. An article I read about Funcom the other day said the larger company plans to start focusing on smaller games because of how bad this market is. However, the real problem is that none of these companies are doing anything but trying to copy WoW, expecting the customer base to never evolve as a whole and want more.
Those of us who were around in the early days and were priviliaged to play a sandbox type game know that this genre has been simplified down to nothing over the past several years. I don't even know if the masses of players even really want to play a game, or just watch a game be played on the screen in front of them. I do know, as SOE mentioned the other day, that chasing content is NEVER, EVER going to work.
Emergent gameplay (sandbox features) is the only direction these games have to go now.
A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.
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The reddit post referenced by the OP in this thread is wrong. If a game caters to masses it will (and does) sell...
... and therein lies the rub...
If you make a game specifically to appeal to masses so you profit, people who want "something good" or "something real" or "something different" will protest and call the spade a spade. In my personal opinion those devs are "the ones driving the genre into the ground" rehashing concepts just a little different over and over and over until they're totally disinteresting. Blaming the consumers/critics begs an argument of "trying to fool all the people all the time"~paraphrased, attributed to A. Lincoln.
Thanks,
Mike
Working on Social Strategy MMORTS (now Launched!) http://www.worldalpha.com
In all fairness, I probably spend less due to my gaming addition than I would if I wasn't a gamer. People need to have some entertainment in their lives and gaming is a very inexpensive form of entertainment.
(To add humor) If someone doesn't leave their mom's basement...they won't be spending money!!
Sorry, but I still hang this on the developers.
#1. They turned level cap progression from 250+ hours down to 50+ because players screamed that they want it easier (faster). With that you end up with a game that a casual can consume in a month, and a content locust can consume in a week.
#2. Storyline content has little to no replay value. Experience the story. Been there, done that. No reason to do it again.
Add these two together and a game has no longevity. Blaming it on the players is just a cop-out.
I would have to say that I agree with this person. There are people out there that see a game as something to be conquered. The end game is all that maters and the best gear is the ultimate goal.. but then what?
Instead of seeing the game as a place to be and spend your time, people want to beat the game. But how many can say they have experienced a game fully? been over the world more times than they care to count.
Take WOW for a moment. How many have left the game because they got bored with the raiding? now how many of those had been to the Spa in Un'gro Crater? Or been to the gates in Sithilis before they were opened?
I know when MOP is released it will only be a few hours .. maybe a day before you hear and see ... World Firsts happening .. but did they enjoy the game or was that it? Was scarffing down the content and getting done fast worth it? Will they be leaving because there is nothing to do at the end?
You can rush through life, but life will not rush through you.
Not exactly. Kim Ki Duk, Lars Von Trier, Wong Kar Wai and the likes keep doing excellent movies. However, just a bunch of theatres are showing their movies in my city while all the rest are offering Transformers 14 and Alien vs Predator vs Mario Bross.
Another example: I recently got the Bad Salad first album (actually first long play if that makes any sense nowadays), and I think it's an awesome band with really talented musicians. But Justin Bieber is outselling them so much.
Yet another example: Most famous restaurant in the world? McDonnalds.
Face it. People like crap so companies give them crap.
"You are not a casual player, shame on you!" - OP.
Games with good endgame (WoW,d2,daoc,EQ etc) do well, games with shallow endgame (like gw2 and pretty much every mmo after WoW) fail.
Call me out for loving crap, but... Good God, I would watch the shit out of that movie.
Google or follow the news once in a while, the information is out there.
I do. Funny, I don't seem to see that news anywhere. Sure, I can find the occasionally commentator voicing his or her opinion....but that's all it is, opinion. I just don't see any facts....so I am still waiting for you to cite you sources. Afterall, the burden of proof is on you.
So much talk about "facts" but I do wonder. Do you have any sources to back those up or did you just make them all up. Movie and mmorpg genre is struggling. Lol, what a bunch of drivel.
My gaming blog
Here's an excerpt from Televsion subscriber losses, I'll let you find your own articles and research:
But this quarter's losses were stark for DirecTV, which lost customers for the first time ever and for Time Warner, who lost customers for the tenth straight quarter and lost more than analysts expected. Comcast's loss of 169,000 customers was actually an improvement over previous quarters.
You can also find reports on how networks changed their programming due to loss of profitability margins on high end shows. You'll find information on how CBS decided to not follow that trend and keep putting out high cost higher quality shows. It is the most watched network on televsion as an added emphasis on how people do want good television and not reality TV.
Here is an excerpt about movie problems, again I'll let you find your own sources:
I hope you’re sitting down, because I have some difficult news to share: Almost everyone hates going to the movies. After cinema attendance hit at 16-year low last year, a new study has found that only 3% of U.S. consumers consider moviegoing “a frequent source of entertainment.” Is this news as bad as it seems? And if so, what can be done about it?
Maybe the most depressing thing about the survey in question is that it’s really easy to imagine why movies have fallen so dramatically in popularity (Two years ago, 28% of people rated moviegoing as a frequent source of entertainment, to give you an idea of just how sharp the decline is). After all, going to the movies is both expensive and, often, not that fun of an experience; bad crowds, bad seats and bad movies can all end up ruining the night out. When you start to think about all of the variables that can make moviegoing a less than optimal way to spend your time, suddenly alternative plans become much more attractive.
Hopefully with all of the layoffs, company shut downs, game shut downs etc. I don't really have to go get you excerpts about how the MMO genre isn't doing well, isn't meeting expectations, and how some companies have said there is no future in MMOs and do not want to put any money into developing new ones.
The larger the Company and the more money involved- The less risk they take and the slower they are to embrace change.
The MMO market (at this time) is beyond stale- Its in a very similar state to General Motors from years ago pushing the Hummer when Gas prices are forcing folks into economy cars- Then wondering how they could fail.
Actually, the gross number of ticket sales seems to have been in steady decline the past 7 or 8 years now, but hard to speak to the overall profitability due to increasing average ticket prices and no telling where the cost to produce figures factor in. (or how much they make from Netflix and other alternate distribution channels)
http://boxofficemojo.com/yearly/
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
It was 13 years, even worse, as I posted a little above this.
Also you can find data that, with the obvious exception of juggernaught movies like The Avengers and Dark Knight, profits have gone down per movie despite the increase in ticket costs. This is because of both the decrease in ticket sales but also the cost of making movies has gone up drastically.
In other words: no, you havent got shit to back up your statements with.
Last year Avengers had one of the highest gross sales EVER. Batman also sold out beyond all expectations and there are more MMO's than ever before. SW:TOR sold over 2 million copies and has an estimated sub. base of 500.000. Rift sold over a million copies, GW2 sold over 2 million.
I may personally not like the direction the genre has taken towards a more casual type but that the genre is struggling is complete and utter rubbish.
My gaming blog
Didn't read my other post did you. I'll give you a minute.
Ok, you have shown me there is a decline; that was never a point I had an issue with. But the reasons for the decline you stated as fact, I am still waiting for the evidence behind that.
If I look at my recent singleplayer rpg, DAO, ME, witcher, skyrim the games are very different. If I look at MMORPG, wow, rift, swtor and tsw the combat system is fairly similar, levelling is bit different but endgame is identical.
The ones destroying the market are the ones that release mmorpg with identical and/or underdeveloped endgame content.
You're that guy, ok. You are correct. People love all television, especially reality television, that they have cancelled their service in order to stop themselves from watching to much TV. It was just too good and they couldn't control themselves.
People went to the movies less and less because they decided movies were too good and made the rest of the world seem so sad and pathetic that they forced themselves to stop going. The 13 years also stops any economic downturn reasoning so what else could it be? Clearly it is that movies are too good.
Several game studios have been shut and more downsized along with games shut down permanently because, well they were too good and it wasn't fair to the competition.
You are correct. The entertianment industry is making products that are just SO GOOD, that people have to force themselves to use them less. It is definetly, in no way shape or form, that the products are subpar and people are fed up. Never accept logical lines of thought as those are the seeds of the devil.
The gross sales in dollars has been going up, inspite of low inflation and deep recession. If anything this chart shows that the industry is doing just fine.
My gaming blog
I read it and did not see any credi ble sources. Just text that can have written by anyone. Cite your sources.
My gaming blog
I personally hope it collapses and all these douchy AAA companies go away. I'd rather see the real mmoRPG players pay for indy games that will create fun, community driven gameplay again. Call me an elitist, but I'm not a big fan of mainstream anything, really. Whenever a product is made for the mainstream, you can bet that generally means it has been dumbed down to oblivion. (see the iPhone 5 for example)
Those of us who are sick of this crap, are probably looking for emergent gameplay. I recieved an email frrom ANet today, talking about GW2's social gameplay, and I almost laughed myself to death. I actually enjoy GW2 as a short-term game, and I'm taking my sweet time in there, but to claim this game has any features that drive the community toward being social is ludicrous.
The features they listed were basically the mob-tagging which was referred to as "cooperative gameplay", and then PvP. Those were their advertised social features in their mass email today. What a joke.
I don't know what's going to happen with this genre, but I do believe it's eating itself. If there is no profit here and it becomes a gamble to make MMO, they will be gone. An article I read about Funcom the other day said the larger company plans to start focusing on smaller games because of how bad this market is. However, the real problem is that none of these companies are doing anything but trying to copy WoW, expecting the customer base to never evolve as a whole and want more.
Those of us who were around in the early days and were priviliaged to play a sandbox type game know that this genre has been simplified down to nothing over the past several years. I don't even know if the masses of players even really want to play a game, or just watch a game be played on the screen in front of them. I do know, as SOE mentioned the other day, that chasing content is NEVER, EVER going to work.
Emergent gameplay (sandbox features) is the only direction these games have to go now.
A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.