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What's going on with money making nerfs?

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  • botrytisbotrytis In Flux, MIPosts: 2,567Member
    Originally posted by wowfan1996
    Originally posted by botrytis
    A.net has been dealing with issues as fast as they can.

    If this is dealing with issues then I'm Gandalf. Look, they only care about their cash shop profits that's quite obvious by now. Also they don't have any good tools to track and ban bots (otherwise they would). So they are desperately trying to limit the amount of gold bots are able to farm. And only because 3rd party goldsellers hurts gem sales.

    But since their decisions affect everyone, players will actually buy more gold not less. And since 3rd party is still cheaper, all these "measures" only help botters in the long run. Oh, and there will be even more hacked accounts of course.

    ANet developers should stop smoking pot and start looking for actual solutions.

    They don't - get real. It looks like there anti-farming code is not working - so they are probably working on that.

     

    GO ahead - buy gold in game and see your account get a perma-ban. They do it that fast. There will be Gold Sellers always - even in Rift, they do show up.

     

    Your forum name says it all - please go back to WoW and play with Pandas.

    image

    "In 50 years, when I talk to my grandchildren about these days, I'll make sure to mention what an accomplished MMO player I was. They are going to be so proud ..."
    by Naqaj - 7/17/2013 MMORPG.com forum

  • eggy08eggy08 erie, PAPosts: 525Member
    Originally posted by Xiaoki

     


    Originally posted by xpiher

    Originally posted by Xiaoki  

     

    Originally posted by wowfan1996 Originally posted by Xiaoki one of the anti-farming measures is to give you diminishing returns for rewards from a dungeon run if you complete the dungeon in less than 30 minutes


    You gotta punish players for doing their job well. Brilliant.
     

     

    You clearly don't play the game.


    No, he clearly does.

     


    There are quite a few paths that can easily be done in under 30 minutes with a good group. And Im not talking about a highly specialized, hardcore group with voice comms. Im talking about just a group that knows what they are doing.


    Heck, CoF path #2, the dungeon path that started this whole thing can still be done in under 30 minutes. Well, if Magg doesnt bug out during the Magmacyte event.

    And your still clearly missing the point of the nerf. Why bother doing other paths when you can grind path #2? Why bother putting in other paths at all if they wanted one path to be solely used? This is just a way to make others try different instances. For the players who want to try every path, this is by far the hugest gripe they have. If you don't have 4 people with you to run this dungeon, then  your forced to pug. The pugs heard on the street that the easy path gets them lots of gold in no time, so all they will want to do is that path only. Now you're either forced to ask each person if they are ok with other paths or to buckle down and do the instance you have already run.

    When instead you can join a group, do path #2, then when you finish go do path #1,3 since doing 2 isn't worth it anymore. You can't understand the frustration for the players who want to experience everything unless you have played the game yourself and have a "idc about farm" mentality, or a completion mentality. Its like going into WoW and wanting to do hard mode deathwing, but instead the group only wants to do easy mode because it's easily farmable. You want the experience from doing it, but your forced to either find a new group, which could take forever, or just give in and maybe not enjoy your time because your stuck doing it over again.

    Honestly, if the designers wanted to make it easier, and I wouldn't recommend this because instead of "OMG CASH SHOP" players coming out, you would get players who level off of instances come out instead, would be to take the once a day approach. GW2 won't do this, because they want to give you the opportunity to level with dungeons as much as possible, but it stops the farming of only certain paths. Again, they would have to say "only one certain path a day" because then people would only do certain paths then quit after.

    This decision was by far the easiest for them, and probably the least damaging. This only affects the players who felt the need to farm instances for money and exp, and doesn't affect the average player who can only run maybe an instance a day, or doesn't care about the gold aspect. I would love to hear your magical idea to fix instances besides "give them more rewards" for the other paths, because that won't fix anything, I can guarantee that. Players finish dungeons in different times, so it's almost impossible to quantify a number to increase the other instances.

  • bcbullybcbully Westland, MIPosts: 8,277Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by botrytis
    Originally posted by wowfan1996

    BTW, ANet is in 100% damage control mode now. I made some posts on the official forums today and they were all deleted by mods. I mean ALL. Anyone who ever posted on their forums knows that the wordfilter is so ridiculous I couldn't post anything offensive even if I wanted to. But the funny part is I didn't even try. I only slightly criticized their latest desisions.

    All in all, this is just sad. Instead of listening to players they released some meaningless PR blah-blah-blah and unleashed their forum police on us. Way to go, dear ANet, way to go.

    I never was a huge fan of Rift but I must say that at least Trion tried to listen, honestly tried to deliver what their players wanted and ultimately they got quite some things right. And ANet... I have no words.... either they had this devios plan all along or they just turned evil overnight. In any case their behavior, their treatment of their customers is simply disgusting.

     

    People were farming certain dungeons just for gold and items to sell. I mean a lvl 80 legendary or Elite item going for 2 gold because there were 10 such items in the CS for trade? That needs a nerf - sorry to disappoint you.

    What about farming mobs? That's not legal anymore? In GW2 venacular that's exploiting?

  • eggy08eggy08 erie, PAPosts: 525Member
    Originally posted by C1d0s
    Originally posted by xpiher

     


    Originally posted by C1d0s

    Originally posted by wowfan1996

    Originally posted by Xiaoki one of the anti-farming measures is to give you diminishing returns for rewards from a dungeon run if you complete the dungeon in less than 30 minutes
    You gotta punish players for doing their job well. Brilliant.
    How else are you supposed to teach them how to play? Since GW1, it's been pretty clear the Devs only care about enforcing their ideas of "fun" and "fair" by forcing particular builds, making artifically difficult PVE content, and simply pigeon holing over all. Don't expect anything different from GW2. They're trying so hard to be different than WoW that they're forgetting what made it a massive success in the first place. As they're making these terrible decisions, all they're clinging to is "Oh, yeah, we intended it that way. You're playing wrong! At least it's NOT Warcraft. RIGHT? AM I RIGHT?"
    Explain hightlight please. If you are going to make a make statements like these you should explain it.

     

     


    Originally posted by wowfan1996

    Originally posted by xpiher You clearly don't play the game.
    I do. But if ANet won't revert the changes I probably won't stay for long though.
     

     

    While I haven't done every dungeon, the ones I've done without deaths have all taken longer than 30mins to complete (each boss taking 5 mins + travel time + kill extra mobs). If you are doing it in under 30mins, you are stoping at some point and going back. ANET doesn't want you doing that because it imbalances reward to time ratio. Easy way to circumvent it is by doing a little bit more content or swap between dungeons.
     

    Teaching the players how to play is quite self-explanatory. They're modifying the game in a way to promote their version of play, instead of how the actual customers prefer. Regardless of designer's intention, players will find a playstyle that suits them - it doesn't matter if it was what the Devs had in mind. This has been true since the dawn of MMO's.

    GW2 being so different from WoW, to me, is also pretty obvious. The WHOLE time it was being promoted, from beta to all the other PR events, it was hailed as something revolutionary and entirely different that what was already on the market. IE - Big dog on the block: WOW. Since then, that's all everyone can talk about:

    "OMG, DOES THIS SO MUCH BETTR.", " SO DFFRNT FROM WOW", "LOL WOW BABY", "SO GUD. BETTER THAN WOW"

    And yet ANET hasn't done absolutely nothing but continue to turn it into GW1, what with arificially difficult dungeons, anti-farm codes, and forcing players ( the elite, supposively ) to utilize particular classes, with certain weapons and traits to run dungeons for tokens so that they can get pretty-looking skins. Let's not forget also how many times you have to run these pitiful things just to get a single piece of gear, combined with how buggy and down-right broken most of them are - on top of the now reduced reward and inflated difficulty. Half of the dungeon tactics revolve around: "DODGE RED CIRCLE, KITE, KITE, KITE" anyway. I hardly see how that's any different or more fun than anything else we've been taught over our years of MMO-gaming.

    "Oh, that boss with a stupid amount of health and no mechanics was boring? Okay, instead of reducing his health and giving a few abilities that might actually make you sweat.. we'll just tack-on a bunch of untested mechanics and INCREASE his already astounding healthpool so that, not only do you have to stick on a single mob for 45 minutes, but also run around dodging 15 different, buggy mechanics. -- Also, he'll go invulnerable from time-to-time. We don't know why, but who cares! It's more fun this way. Trust us! Just L2P and you'll be fine."

    At least in Warcraft, the grind wasn't excruciatingly mind-numbing without reward. Hell, you could even do whatever dungeons you preferred to get your rewards thanks to universal tokens / points. You could even be ANY CLASS IN THE GAME, WITH ANY SPEC and still contribute effectively.

    So much for being grind-less, casual friendly, and ultra revolutionary ANET.

    Your a fool to think that they are doing it just to make players play in "their way". This is a fix for players who want to experience everything and gripe about the fact that all they can get groups for are easy dungeons with easy and quick paths. Once you get the gear from all that gold you accumulated, you're still never going to get to experience the other paths because noone will want to do them. They aren't teaching people anything, they are just making other paths viable.

  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer ChairPosts: 5,590Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by WhiteLantern

    Originally posted by Tardcore

    Originally posted by xpiher

    Originally posted by lunarwitch00 to bad its affecting  players leveling up not doing dungeons the "anti farm code" isnt limited to only dungeons
      Sometimes when you fix one issue, it breaks another. Chances are, the exp getting hit with diminishing returns was a programing oversight. I expect it to be corrected. HOWEVER, the way the system was explained, a normal player should never be hit with diminshing returns since. If you are constantly doing different content, the anti-farming algorithm shouldn't kick in. 
    Really? So for example when I farm bandits, centaurs, or moas for specific cooking crafting drops (butter, chocolate, eggs) its ok for me to be penalised because I'm not running around like an ADHD addled moron but instead focusing on specific mobs that drop what I need? That's rich. Thanks A-net for letting the gold sellers tell you and the rest of us how we are to play the game.
    They only want you to play the game "the right way". They really do have your best interests in mind.

     

     

     

     

    (that one felt better)


    This reads like it's online virtual communism.
    Actually, it's really not. It's about capitalism.

  • C1d0sC1d0s Marshall, TXPosts: 238Member
    Originally posted by eggy08
    Originally posted by C1d0s
    Originally posted by xpiher

     


    Originally posted by C1d0s

    Originally posted by wowfan1996

    Originally posted by Xiaoki one of the anti-farming measures is to give you diminishing returns for rewards from a dungeon run if you complete the dungeon in less than 30 minutes
    You gotta punish players for doing their job well. Brilliant.
    How else are you supposed to teach them how to play? Since GW1, it's been pretty clear the Devs only care about enforcing their ideas of "fun" and "fair" by forcing particular builds, making artifically difficult PVE content, and simply pigeon holing over all. Don't expect anything different from GW2. They're trying so hard to be different than WoW that they're forgetting what made it a massive success in the first place. As they're making these terrible decisions, all they're clinging to is "Oh, yeah, we intended it that way. You're playing wrong! At least it's NOT Warcraft. RIGHT? AM I RIGHT?"
    Explain hightlight please. If you are going to make a make statements like these you should explain it.

     

     


    Originally posted by wowfan1996

    Originally posted by xpiher You clearly don't play the game.
    I do. But if ANet won't revert the changes I probably won't stay for long though.
     

     

    While I haven't done every dungeon, the ones I've done without deaths have all taken longer than 30mins to complete (each boss taking 5 mins + travel time + kill extra mobs). If you are doing it in under 30mins, you are stoping at some point and going back. ANET doesn't want you doing that because it imbalances reward to time ratio. Easy way to circumvent it is by doing a little bit more content or swap between dungeons.
     

    Teaching the players how to play is quite self-explanatory. They're modifying the game in a way to promote their version of play, instead of how the actual customers prefer. Regardless of designer's intention, players will find a playstyle that suits them - it doesn't matter if it was what the Devs had in mind. This has been true since the dawn of MMO's.

    GW2 being so different from WoW, to me, is also pretty obvious. The WHOLE time it was being promoted, from beta to all the other PR events, it was hailed as something revolutionary and entirely different that what was already on the market. IE - Big dog on the block: WOW. Since then, that's all everyone can talk about:

    "OMG, DOES THIS SO MUCH BETTR.", " SO DFFRNT FROM WOW", "LOL WOW BABY", "SO GUD. BETTER THAN WOW"

    And yet ANET hasn't done absolutely nothing but continue to turn it into GW1, what with arificially difficult dungeons, anti-farm codes, and forcing players ( the elite, supposively ) to utilize particular classes, with certain weapons and traits to run dungeons for tokens so that they can get pretty-looking skins. Let's not forget also how many times you have to run these pitiful things just to get a single piece of gear, combined with how buggy and down-right broken most of them are - on top of the now reduced reward and inflated difficulty. Half of the dungeon tactics revolve around: "DODGE RED CIRCLE, KITE, KITE, KITE" anyway. I hardly see how that's any different or more fun than anything else we've been taught over our years of MMO-gaming.

    "Oh, that boss with a stupid amount of health and no mechanics was boring? Okay, instead of reducing his health and giving a few abilities that might actually make you sweat.. we'll just tack-on a bunch of untested mechanics and INCREASE his already astounding healthpool so that, not only do you have to stick on a single mob for 45 minutes, but also run around dodging 15 different, buggy mechanics. -- Also, he'll go invulnerable from time-to-time. We don't know why, but who cares! It's more fun this way. Trust us! Just L2P and you'll be fine."

    At least in Warcraft, the grind wasn't excruciatingly mind-numbing without reward. Hell, you could even do whatever dungeons you preferred to get your rewards thanks to universal tokens / points. You could even be ANY CLASS IN THE GAME, WITH ANY SPEC and still contribute effectively.

    So much for being grind-less, casual friendly, and ultra revolutionary ANET.

    Your a fool to think that they are doing it just to make players play in "their way". This is a fix for players who want to experience everything and gripe about the fact that all they can get groups for are easy dungeons with easy and quick paths. Once you get the gear from all that gold you accumulated, you're still never going to get to experience the other paths because noone will want to do them. They aren't teaching people anything, they are just making other paths viable.

    Other paths viable? You do understand that, regardless of how many locks or difficulty patches they release, players will still find the easiest and fastest-completed dungeon to run to maximze their efforts, right? If you think ANYTHING else, then it's YOU who's the fool. They're trying to force people to experience parts of the game that, frankly, are unappealing to the playerbase; otherwise, this wouldn't even be a topic because everyone would already be doing all the dungeon paths in the first place.

    It would be different if half the other paths in this game weren't mind-numblingy long, boring, or BROKEN ENTIRELY. Heaven forbid players actually want to break even when leaving dungeons, what with getting sneezed on by enemy mobs seeming to reduce your armor to shreds.

    image
  • XiaokiXiaoki White Pigeon, MIPosts: 2,604Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by eggy08
    Originally posted by Xiaoki   Originally posted by xpiher Originally posted by Xiaoki     Originally posted by wowfan1996 Originally posted by Xiaoki one of the anti-farming measures is to give you diminishing returns for rewards from a dungeon run if you complete the dungeon in less than 30 minutes
    You gotta punish players for doing their job well. Brilliant.
        You clearly don't play the game.
    No, he clearly does.   There are quite a few paths that can easily be done in under 30 minutes with a good group. And Im not talking about a highly specialized, hardcore group with voice comms. Im talking about just a group that knows what they are doing. Heck, CoF path #2, the dungeon path that started this whole thing can still be done in under 30 minutes. Well, if Magg doesnt bug out during the Magmacyte event.
    And your still clearly missing the point of the nerf.


    The only thing Im missing is the point of your post.


    Why are you going on and on and on about doing the other paths when I was talking about completing dungeons in under 30 minutes and the anti-dungeon farm 30 minute threshold being broken.


    Please, next time read my post.

  • eggy08eggy08 erie, PAPosts: 525Member
    Originally posted by C1d0s
    Originally posted by eggy08
    Originally posted by C1d0s
    Originally posted by xpiher

     


    Originally posted by C1d0s

    Originally posted by wowfan1996

    Originally posted by Xiaoki one of the anti-farming measures is to give you diminishing returns for rewards from a dungeon run if you complete the dungeon in less than 30 minutes
    You gotta punish players for doing their job well. Brilliant.
    How else are you supposed to teach them how to play? Since GW1, it's been pretty clear the Devs only care about enforcing their ideas of "fun" and "fair" by forcing particular builds, making artifically difficult PVE content, and simply pigeon holing over all. Don't expect anything different from GW2. They're trying so hard to be different than WoW that they're forgetting what made it a massive success in the first place. As they're making these terrible decisions, all they're clinging to is "Oh, yeah, we intended it that way. You're playing wrong! At least it's NOT Warcraft. RIGHT? AM I RIGHT?"
    Explain hightlight please. If you are going to make a make statements like these you should explain it.

     

     


    Originally posted by wowfan1996

    Originally posted by xpiher You clearly don't play the game.
    I do. But if ANet won't revert the changes I probably won't stay for long though.
     

     

    While I haven't done every dungeon, the ones I've done without deaths have all taken longer than 30mins to complete (each boss taking 5 mins + travel time + kill extra mobs). If you are doing it in under 30mins, you are stoping at some point and going back. ANET doesn't want you doing that because it imbalances reward to time ratio. Easy way to circumvent it is by doing a little bit more content or swap between dungeons.
     

    Teaching the players how to play is quite self-explanatory. They're modifying the game in a way to promote their version of play, instead of how the actual customers prefer. Regardless of designer's intention, players will find a playstyle that suits them - it doesn't matter if it was what the Devs had in mind. This has been true since the dawn of MMO's.

    GW2 being so different from WoW, to me, is also pretty obvious. The WHOLE time it was being promoted, from beta to all the other PR events, it was hailed as something revolutionary and entirely different that what was already on the market. IE - Big dog on the block: WOW. Since then, that's all everyone can talk about:

    "OMG, DOES THIS SO MUCH BETTR.", " SO DFFRNT FROM WOW", "LOL WOW BABY", "SO GUD. BETTER THAN WOW"

    And yet ANET hasn't done absolutely nothing but continue to turn it into GW1, what with arificially difficult dungeons, anti-farm codes, and forcing players ( the elite, supposively ) to utilize particular classes, with certain weapons and traits to run dungeons for tokens so that they can get pretty-looking skins. Let's not forget also how many times you have to run these pitiful things just to get a single piece of gear, combined with how buggy and down-right broken most of them are - on top of the now reduced reward and inflated difficulty. Half of the dungeon tactics revolve around: "DODGE RED CIRCLE, KITE, KITE, KITE" anyway. I hardly see how that's any different or more fun than anything else we've been taught over our years of MMO-gaming.

    "Oh, that boss with a stupid amount of health and no mechanics was boring? Okay, instead of reducing his health and giving a few abilities that might actually make you sweat.. we'll just tack-on a bunch of untested mechanics and INCREASE his already astounding healthpool so that, not only do you have to stick on a single mob for 45 minutes, but also run around dodging 15 different, buggy mechanics. -- Also, he'll go invulnerable from time-to-time. We don't know why, but who cares! It's more fun this way. Trust us! Just L2P and you'll be fine."

    At least in Warcraft, the grind wasn't excruciatingly mind-numbing without reward. Hell, you could even do whatever dungeons you preferred to get your rewards thanks to universal tokens / points. You could even be ANY CLASS IN THE GAME, WITH ANY SPEC and still contribute effectively.

    So much for being grind-less, casual friendly, and ultra revolutionary ANET.

    Your a fool to think that they are doing it just to make players play in "their way". This is a fix for players who want to experience everything and gripe about the fact that all they can get groups for are easy dungeons with easy and quick paths. Once you get the gear from all that gold you accumulated, you're still never going to get to experience the other paths because noone will want to do them. They aren't teaching people anything, they are just making other paths viable.

    Other paths viable? You do understand that, regardless of how many locks or difficulty patches they release, players will still find the easiest and fastest-completed dungeon to run to maximze their efforts, right? If you think ANYTHING else, then it's YOU who's the fool.

    It would be different if half the other paths in this game weren't mind-numblingy long, boring, or BROKEN ENTIRELY. Heaven forbid players actually want to break even when leaving dungeons, what with getting sneezed on by enemy mobs seeming to reduce your armor to shreds.

    I'm not saying they won't want to, but at least it forces players to step back and think a little. You can say all you want about the gold farmers who take the path, but if you give little reason not to take the farm path, then why would the average player not take it. It's literally impossible to force anyone to take the other path without putting on a lock like other games, and since they never started with one, I doubt they will make it now.

    Its like looking at the difference between buying a already made pizza versus making one yourself. You can easily agree that the already made pizza takes far less work than the self made. In the end, you still get the pizza right? Same rewards. But sadly over time, the self made pizza will cost far less due to certain factors. If this wasn't in place, who would bother making a pizza, they would instead always buy the already made pizza. Some people enjoy making pizza, it can be its own reward for getting to experience it for the first time. But the average person doesn't want to do extra work if he there is no tradeoff for buying the already made pizza and having to put no effort into it.

    I'm not saying that every person will want to do every path nor bother to not do the easy path everytime anyway. All I'm saying is that if there is no tradeoff to doing the easy path, then the people who want to experience everything else will never get that chance.

  • eggy08eggy08 erie, PAPosts: 525Member
    Originally posted by Xiaoki

     


    Originally posted by eggy08

    Originally posted by Xiaoki  

    Originally posted by xpiher

    Originally posted by Xiaoki  

      Originally posted by wowfan1996 Originally posted by Xiaoki one of the anti-farming measures is to give you diminishing returns for rewards from a dungeon run if you complete the dungeon in less than 30 minutes
    You gotta punish players for doing their job well. Brilliant.
        You clearly don't play the game.
    No, he clearly does.   There are quite a few paths that can easily be done in under 30 minutes with a good group. And Im not talking about a highly specialized, hardcore group with voice comms. Im talking about just a group that knows what they are doing. Heck, CoF path #2, the dungeon path that started this whole thing can still be done in under 30 minutes. Well, if Magg doesnt bug out during the Magmacyte event.
    And your still clearly missing the point of the nerf.

    The only thing Im missing is the point of your post.

     


    Why are you going on and on and on about doing the other paths when I was talking about completing dungeons in under 30 minutes and the anti-dungeon farm 30 minute threshold being broken.


    Please, next time read my post.

    Or you clearly didn't read my post. As I stated in there exactly why the 30 minutes makes a difference. Next time I won't bother and just leave it at what you cut off, because you clearly won't read it anyway.

  • bcbullybcbully Westland, MIPosts: 8,277Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by eggy08
     

    Or you clearly didn't read my post. As I stated in there exactly why the 30 minutes makes a difference. Next time I won't bother and just leave it at what you cut off, because you clearly won't read it anyway.

    Why are there diminishing returns on mobs? Is grinding mobs exploiting now?

  • C1d0sC1d0s Marshall, TXPosts: 238Member
    Originally posted by eggy08
    Originally posted by C1d0s
    Originally posted by eggy08
    Originally posted by C1d0s
    Originally posted by xpiher

     


    Originally posted by C1d0s

    Originally posted by wowfan1996

    Originally posted by Xiaoki one of the anti-farming measures is to give you diminishing returns for rewards from a dungeon run if you complete the dungeon in less than 30 minutes
    You gotta punish players for doing their job well. Brilliant.
    How else are you supposed to teach them how to play? Since GW1, it's been pretty clear the Devs only care about enforcing their ideas of "fun" and "fair" by forcing particular builds, making artifically difficult PVE content, and simply pigeon holing over all. Don't expect anything different from GW2. They're trying so hard to be different than WoW that they're forgetting what made it a massive success in the first place. As they're making these terrible decisions, all they're clinging to is "Oh, yeah, we intended it that way. You're playing wrong! At least it's NOT Warcraft. RIGHT? AM I RIGHT?"
    Explain hightlight please. If you are going to make a make statements like these you should explain it.

     

     


    Originally posted by wowfan1996

    Originally posted by xpiher You clearly don't play the game.
    I do. But if ANet won't revert the changes I probably won't stay for long though.
     

     

    While I haven't done every dungeon, the ones I've done without deaths have all taken longer than 30mins to complete (each boss taking 5 mins + travel time + kill extra mobs). If you are doing it in under 30mins, you are stoping at some point and going back. ANET doesn't want you doing that because it imbalances reward to time ratio. Easy way to circumvent it is by doing a little bit more content or swap between dungeons.
     

    Teaching the players how to play is quite self-explanatory. They're modifying the game in a way to promote their version of play, instead of how the actual customers prefer. Regardless of designer's intention, players will find a playstyle that suits them - it doesn't matter if it was what the Devs had in mind. This has been true since the dawn of MMO's.

    GW2 being so different from WoW, to me, is also pretty obvious. The WHOLE time it was being promoted, from beta to all the other PR events, it was hailed as something revolutionary and entirely different that what was already on the market. IE - Big dog on the block: WOW. Since then, that's all everyone can talk about:

    "OMG, DOES THIS SO MUCH BETTR.", " SO DFFRNT FROM WOW", "LOL WOW BABY", "SO GUD. BETTER THAN WOW"

    And yet ANET hasn't done absolutely nothing but continue to turn it into GW1, what with arificially difficult dungeons, anti-farm codes, and forcing players ( the elite, supposively ) to utilize particular classes, with certain weapons and traits to run dungeons for tokens so that they can get pretty-looking skins. Let's not forget also how many times you have to run these pitiful things just to get a single piece of gear, combined with how buggy and down-right broken most of them are - on top of the now reduced reward and inflated difficulty. Half of the dungeon tactics revolve around: "DODGE RED CIRCLE, KITE, KITE, KITE" anyway. I hardly see how that's any different or more fun than anything else we've been taught over our years of MMO-gaming.

    "Oh, that boss with a stupid amount of health and no mechanics was boring? Okay, instead of reducing his health and giving a few abilities that might actually make you sweat.. we'll just tack-on a bunch of untested mechanics and INCREASE his already astounding healthpool so that, not only do you have to stick on a single mob for 45 minutes, but also run around dodging 15 different, buggy mechanics. -- Also, he'll go invulnerable from time-to-time. We don't know why, but who cares! It's more fun this way. Trust us! Just L2P and you'll be fine."

    At least in Warcraft, the grind wasn't excruciatingly mind-numbing without reward. Hell, you could even do whatever dungeons you preferred to get your rewards thanks to universal tokens / points. You could even be ANY CLASS IN THE GAME, WITH ANY SPEC and still contribute effectively.

    So much for being grind-less, casual friendly, and ultra revolutionary ANET.

    Your a fool to think that they are doing it just to make players play in "their way". This is a fix for players who want to experience everything and gripe about the fact that all they can get groups for are easy dungeons with easy and quick paths. Once you get the gear from all that gold you accumulated, you're still never going to get to experience the other paths because noone will want to do them. They aren't teaching people anything, they are just making other paths viable.

    Other paths viable? You do understand that, regardless of how many locks or difficulty patches they release, players will still find the easiest and fastest-completed dungeon to run to maximze their efforts, right? If you think ANYTHING else, then it's YOU who's the fool.

    It would be different if half the other paths in this game weren't mind-numblingy long, boring, or BROKEN ENTIRELY. Heaven forbid players actually want to break even when leaving dungeons, what with getting sneezed on by enemy mobs seeming to reduce your armor to shreds.

    I'm not saying they won't want to, but at least it forces players to step back and think a little. You can say all you want about the gold farmers who take the path, but if you give little reason not to take the farm path, then why would the average player not take it. It's literally impossible to force anyone to take the other path without putting on a lock like other games, and since they never started with one, I doubt they will make it now.

    Its like looking at the difference between buying a already made pizza versus making one yourself. You can easily agree that the already made pizza takes far less work than the self made. In the end, you still get the pizza right? Same rewards. But sadly over time, the self made pizza will cost far less due to certain factors. If this wasn't in place, who would bother making a pizza, they would instead always buy the already made pizza. Some people enjoy making pizza, it can be its own reward for getting to experience it for the first time. But the average person doesn't want to do extra work if he there is no tradeoff for buying the already made pizza and having to put no effort into it.

    I'm not saying that every person will want to do every path nor bother to not do the easy path everytime anyway. All I'm saying is that if there is no tradeoff to doing the easy path, then the people who want to experience everything else will never get that chance.

    The trade-off? You have to be joking.

    There is no trade-off, like, at all. They did't make dungeon paths any more appealing than before; in fact, all they did was enforce their intended method of dungeoning.

    All that's going to happen now is that the speed-runners are going to pick the TWO easiest pathes and farm the ever-loving crap out of them, while other people struggle with the horrendously made others out of ~respect~ for ANET's design decision.

    They literally changed nothing, save the fact you get less rewards if you manage to complete a dungeon faster than they intended.

    image
  • eggy08eggy08 erie, PAPosts: 525Member
    Originally posted by bcbully
    Originally posted by eggy08
     

    Or you clearly didn't read my post. As I stated in there exactly why the 30 minutes makes a difference. Next time I won't bother and just leave it at what you cut off, because you clearly won't read it anyway.

    Why is there diminishing returns on mobs? Is grinding mobs exploiting now?

    I'm talking about instances in general. I honestly wasn't even aware of the diminishing returns on mobs, unless they added it in this patch.

    I don't agree entirely on it, Idk how long it takes to fall off, nor how many you need to farm to get it to activate. I was kinda happy they did it for DEs... in a sense. Only because I hated the zerg and liked doing DEs solo or with small groups instead. But that won't stop the zerg, basically just meant people would alt tab and take a 30 min break then jump back in again.

  • eggy08eggy08 erie, PAPosts: 525Member
    Originally posted by C1d0s
    Originally posted by eggy08
    Originally posted by C1d0s
    Originally posted by eggy08
    Originally posted by C1d0s
    Originally posted by xpiher

     


    Originally posted by C1d0s

    Originally posted by wowfan1996

    Originally posted by Xiaoki one of the anti-farming measures is to give you diminishing returns for rewards from a dungeon run if you complete the dungeon in less than 30 minutes
    You gotta punish players for doing their job well. Brilliant.
    How else are you supposed to teach them how to play? Since GW1, it's been pretty clear the Devs only care about enforcing their ideas of "fun" and "fair" by forcing particular builds, making artifically difficult PVE content, and simply pigeon holing over all. Don't expect anything different from GW2. They're trying so hard to be different than WoW that they're forgetting what made it a massive success in the first place. As they're making these terrible decisions, all they're clinging to is "Oh, yeah, we intended it that way. You're playing wrong! At least it's NOT Warcraft. RIGHT? AM I RIGHT?"
    Explain hightlight please. If you are going to make a make statements like these you should explain it.

     

     


    Originally posted by wowfan1996

    Originally posted by xpiher You clearly don't play the game.
    I do. But if ANet won't revert the changes I probably won't stay for long though.
     

     

    While I haven't done every dungeon, the ones I've done without deaths have all taken longer than 30mins to complete (each boss taking 5 mins + travel time + kill extra mobs). If you are doing it in under 30mins, you are stoping at some point and going back. ANET doesn't want you doing that because it imbalances reward to time ratio. Easy way to circumvent it is by doing a little bit more content or swap between dungeons.
     

    Teaching the players how to play is quite self-explanatory. They're modifying the game in a way to promote their version of play, instead of how the actual customers prefer. Regardless of designer's intention, players will find a playstyle that suits them - it doesn't matter if it was what the Devs had in mind. This has been true since the dawn of MMO's.

    GW2 being so different from WoW, to me, is also pretty obvious. The WHOLE time it was being promoted, from beta to all the other PR events, it was hailed as something revolutionary and entirely different that what was already on the market. IE - Big dog on the block: WOW. Since then, that's all everyone can talk about:

    "OMG, DOES THIS SO MUCH BETTR.", " SO DFFRNT FROM WOW", "LOL WOW BABY", "SO GUD. BETTER THAN WOW"

    And yet ANET hasn't done absolutely nothing but continue to turn it into GW1, what with arificially difficult dungeons, anti-farm codes, and forcing players ( the elite, supposively ) to utilize particular classes, with certain weapons and traits to run dungeons for tokens so that they can get pretty-looking skins. Let's not forget also how many times you have to run these pitiful things just to get a single piece of gear, combined with how buggy and down-right broken most of them are - on top of the now reduced reward and inflated difficulty. Half of the dungeon tactics revolve around: "DODGE RED CIRCLE, KITE, KITE, KITE" anyway. I hardly see how that's any different or more fun than anything else we've been taught over our years of MMO-gaming.

    "Oh, that boss with a stupid amount of health and no mechanics was boring? Okay, instead of reducing his health and giving a few abilities that might actually make you sweat.. we'll just tack-on a bunch of untested mechanics and INCREASE his already astounding healthpool so that, not only do you have to stick on a single mob for 45 minutes, but also run around dodging 15 different, buggy mechanics. -- Also, he'll go invulnerable from time-to-time. We don't know why, but who cares! It's more fun this way. Trust us! Just L2P and you'll be fine."

    At least in Warcraft, the grind wasn't excruciatingly mind-numbing without reward. Hell, you could even do whatever dungeons you preferred to get your rewards thanks to universal tokens / points. You could even be ANY CLASS IN THE GAME, WITH ANY SPEC and still contribute effectively.

    So much for being grind-less, casual friendly, and ultra revolutionary ANET.

    Your a fool to think that they are doing it just to make players play in "their way". This is a fix for players who want to experience everything and gripe about the fact that all they can get groups for are easy dungeons with easy and quick paths. Once you get the gear from all that gold you accumulated, you're still never going to get to experience the other paths because noone will want to do them. They aren't teaching people anything, they are just making other paths viable.

    Other paths viable? You do understand that, regardless of how many locks or difficulty patches they release, players will still find the easiest and fastest-completed dungeon to run to maximze their efforts, right? If you think ANYTHING else, then it's YOU who's the fool.

    It would be different if half the other paths in this game weren't mind-numblingy long, boring, or BROKEN ENTIRELY. Heaven forbid players actually want to break even when leaving dungeons, what with getting sneezed on by enemy mobs seeming to reduce your armor to shreds.

    I'm not saying they won't want to, but at least it forces players to step back and think a little. You can say all you want about the gold farmers who take the path, but if you give little reason not to take the farm path, then why would the average player not take it. It's literally impossible to force anyone to take the other path without putting on a lock like other games, and since they never started with one, I doubt they will make it now.

    Its like looking at the difference between buying a already made pizza versus making one yourself. You can easily agree that the already made pizza takes far less work than the self made. In the end, you still get the pizza right? Same rewards. But sadly over time, the self made pizza will cost far less due to certain factors. If this wasn't in place, who would bother making a pizza, they would instead always buy the already made pizza. Some people enjoy making pizza, it can be its own reward for getting to experience it for the first time. But the average person doesn't want to do extra work if he there is no tradeoff for buying the already made pizza and having to put no effort into it.

    I'm not saying that every person will want to do every path nor bother to not do the easy path everytime anyway. All I'm saying is that if there is no tradeoff to doing the easy path, then the people who want to experience everything else will never get that chance.

    The trade-off? You have to be joking.

    There is no trade-off, like, at all. They did't make dungeon paths any more appealing than before; in fact, all they did was enforce their intended method of dungeoning.

    All that's going to happen now is that the speed-runners are going to pick the TWO easiest pathes and farm the ever-loving crap out of them, while other people struggle with the horrendously made others out of ~respect~ for ANET's design decision.

    They literally changed nothing, save the fact you get less rewards if you manage to complete a dungeon faster than they intended.

    And I don't care about the speed-runners. I care about the average player who wants to run dungeons. If they feel that there is no reason to not run the same path over and over again, then they will continue to do so. But instead you can leave the instance, come back in and do a different path instead. Sure they could want to go to a completely different instance, but I'm not joining a group if that's what their intentions are to start with.

  • apb2011apb2011 Quebec city, QCPosts: 153Member Uncommon

    I think you all should go out and get laid.

     

    Video games LMAO!!

  • WhiteLanternWhiteLantern Nevada, MOPosts: 2,732Member
    Originally posted by apb2011

    I think you all should go out and get laid.

     

    Video games LMAO!!

    The japanese video-game sextion is that way ----------------->

     

     

     

     

     

    Wait, I might have misunderstood your post.

    I want a mmorpg where people have gone through misery, have gone through school stuff and actually have had sex even. -sagil

  • C1d0sC1d0s Marshall, TXPosts: 238Member

    Your reply is humorous because this patch was initiated to combat the speed-runners. Saying you don't care about why the patch was put it out, then complaining that people don't like it, is essentially getting your feathers ruffled for absolutely no reason.

    If you don't care about the speed-runners, then go do your monotonous dungeons for an entirely unsubstantial reward and claim it was totally "fun".

    The sheer fact this game has SO much grinding, and that ANET is dead-set on making the grind as insufferable as possible, doesn't bode well for the future. So far, they've done nothing but make decisions that are entirely anti-casual, anti-fun, and all for what? Allegedly, to keep farmers from ruining their precious economy.

    image
  • apb2011apb2011 Quebec city, QCPosts: 153Member Uncommon

    And the reason I say this is, if you all were getting some on a regular, you wouldn't give a crap about an online game being nerfed.

     

    Just common sense.

  • TorvalTorval Oregon CountryPosts: 7,209Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Foomerang

    trolling? Lol please. Its a fact that of players can farm all the gold they need in game, it devalues the cash shop. Since gw2 is b2p, this directly impacts anets bottom line. You better get used to them nerfin stuff like this constantly.

    And P2P games don't do the same thing with restricting money and drop rates to keep subscriptions going?  How is EVE going with the PLEX sales?

    Are you somehow inferring that this situation is peculiar to games with cash shops?  I think you need to supply some factual analysis and then draw conclusions from that.

    In short all games restrict rewards to drive their revenue model.  At least be genuine in your crticism.

  • eggy08eggy08 erie, PAPosts: 525Member
    Originally posted by C1d0s

    Your reply is humorous because this patch was initiated to combat the speed-runners. Saying you don't care about why the patch was put it out, then complaining that people don't like it, is essentially getting your feathers ruffled for absolutely no reason.

    If you don't care about the speed-runners, then go do your monotonous dungeons for an entirely unsubstantial reward and claim it was totally "fun".

    The sheer fact this game has SO much grinding, and that ANET is dead-set on making the grind as insufferable as possible, doesn't bode well for the future. So far, they've done nothing but make decisions that are entirely anti-casual, anti-fun, and all for what? Allegedly, to keep farmers from ruining their precious economy.

    Again, then you missed my point. And I'm honestly not going to keep reitterating it because you feel like this patch was only for one classification of people. Its not like it was only the speed-runners who took the paths only. But you can keep thinking that way.

  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer ChairPosts: 5,590Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by botrytis

    Originally posted by The_Korrigan

    Originally posted by SpottyGekko As a non-player, there's only one thing that puzzles me about the general content of this thread: "In a game where gear is said to be relatively trivial, why are so many players focused on making heaps of gold in the quickest possible time ? What do they need it for ?"   What happened to: "GW2 is all about the fun of playing, not grinding for upgrades" ?   When people start to organise "speed runs" for dungeons and instances, it certainly sounds like they're grinding...
    Because they can't get rid of the EQ/WoW clone grind mentality. They just don't know better, it's the only way to play a MMORPG for them.
    QFT - people have issues with changing the way they do things. It is human nature.

     

    People need to think outside the box sometimes.


    Will "You are doing it wrong" EVER stop?
  • HahhnsHahhns deltona, FLPosts: 210Member

    I wanted to give my 2 copper on this, when the game was released massive guilds paid for gems and transfered to gold. At that time 4000 gems was worth 14 gold 50 silver. That is a ton. If you look now 4000 gems is not even close to 8 gold now.  peopel then started buying karma items and selling them on the ah, Anet kinda messed up here. When they made karma cooking items and other items bound on account it never represented the ones that was purchased before. I had over 2000 of an item and when i went to sell them 250 was worth over 3g because the price sky rocketed.

    When they allowed faction armor to be sold at 20 silver for lvlv 80 gear many of us bought gems to buy a ton and break them down for ectoplasms and ori ore. That was the 1st day the game came out. The thign with the high end game instances we knew was goignt o get nerfed, you could skip 1 -2 bosses at a time and do them in under 30 minutes. and that was 25 silver a pop plus gear and your tokens for end game armor and weps.

     

    so peopel tried everythign they could to juke the systems and it doe seffect the bottom line for Anet. They want you to use the cash shop as much as possible. That why black lion keys are bound and cant be sold, they are extremely rare drops and the chest sell for 2 copper. 

  • FoomerangFoomerang Portland, ORPosts: 5,565Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by Torvaldr
    Originally posted by Foomerang trolling? Lol please. Its a fact that of players can farm all the gold they need in game, it devalues the cash shop. Since gw2 is b2p, this directly impacts anets bottom line. You better get used to them nerfin stuff like this constantly.
    And P2P games don't do the same thing with restricting money and drop rates to keep subscriptions going?  How is EVE going with the PLEX sales?

    Are you somehow inferring that this situation is peculiar to games with cash shops?  I think you need to supply some factual analysis and then draw conclusions from that.

    In short all games restrict rewards to drive their revenue model.  At least be genuine in your crticism.



    Without a doubt you are right and i agree with you.
  • TorvalTorval Oregon CountryPosts: 7,209Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Foomerang

    Originally posted by Torvaldr

    Originally posted by Foomerang trolling? Lol please. Its a fact that of players can farm all the gold they need in game, it devalues the cash shop. Since gw2 is b2p, this directly impacts anets bottom line. You better get used to them nerfin stuff like this constantly.
    And P2P games don't do the same thing with restricting money and drop rates to keep subscriptions going?  How is EVE going with the PLEX sales?

    Are you somehow inferring that this situation is peculiar to games with cash shops?  I think you need to supply some factual analysis and then draw conclusions from that.

    In short all games restrict rewards to drive their revenue model.  At least be genuine in your crticism.


    Without a doubt you are right and i agree with you.

    Dang it!  I even poked at you and that's all I get. image

  • william0532william0532 portland, ORPosts: 251Member
    Originally posted by Xerith

    It's over exaggerating. I made 2g running around in WvW last night, I had 20g by the time I hit 80, I spent ~10g crafting an entire exotic armor set + exotic weapon. I did nothing other than play the game, craft, and sell things on the AH, no farming of any kind and I have never had an issue with money. 

    The farming nerf to dungeons is fine, basically what it does is stop people from entering, killing two really easy bosses then leaving, resetting and doing it again until the day is done. 

    If you somehow have no money to even repair armor, you did something horribly horribly wrong. 

    YES^ This was the way to play the game, they fixed it. I'm a grinder, and I will do this for a month straight to have as much gold as humanely possible. The fix is for tweekers like me, that force me to go play the game as opposed to grinding non stop. I get it, it's quasi irritating to have my exploit snatched from me, but at the end of the day I'm glad they make smart decisions like this. The last game I played(swtor), they took forever to fix exploits(i looted a chest in an operation for about 4 million credits lol, I was dissappointed when bioware fixed it, but it was still the right call lol, especially since I was about the last person on the server to know about the exploit)

     

    Beating farming habits is good for gaming, period.

  • FoomerangFoomerang Portland, ORPosts: 5,565Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by Torvaldr
    Originally posted by Foomerang Originally posted by Torvaldr Originally posted by Foomerang trolling? Lol please. Its a fact that of players can farm all the gold they need in game, it devalues the cash shop. Since gw2 is b2p, this directly impacts anets bottom line. You better get used to them nerfin stuff like this constantly.
    And P2P games don't do the same thing with restricting money and drop rates to keep subscriptions going?  How is EVE going with the PLEX sales? Are you somehow inferring that this situation is peculiar to games with cash shops?  I think you need to supply some factual analysis and then draw conclusions from that. In short all games restrict rewards to drive their revenue model.  At least be genuine in your crticism.
    Without a doubt you are right and i agree with you.
    Dang it!  I even poked at you and that's all I get.

    Hehe well im wrong a lot and dont always see every side so yeah, im used to admitting when im being biased
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