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What's going on with money making nerfs?

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  • The_KorriganThe_Korrigan EastPosts: 2,630Member
    Originally posted by SpottyGekko

    As a non-player, there's only one thing that puzzles me about the general content of this thread: "In a game where gear is said to be relatively trivial, why are so many players focused on making heaps of gold in the quickest possible time ? What do they need it for ?"

     

    What happened to: "GW2 is all about the fun of playing, not grinding for upgrades" ?

     

    When people start to organise "speed runs" for dungeons and instances, it certainly sounds like they're grinding...

    Because they can't get rid of the EQ/WoW clone grind mentality. They just don't know better, it's the only way to play a MMORPG for them.

    If you wonder why I don't answer your posts, it's most likely because you are on my block list - so don't waste your time.

    image

  • mazutmazut SofiaPosts: 885Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by SpottyGekko

    As a non-player, there's only one thing that puzzles me about the general content of this thread: "In a game where gear is said to be relatively trivial, why are so many players focused on making heaps of gold in the quickest possible time ? What do they need it for ?"

     

    What happened to: "GW2 is all about the fun of playing, not grinding for upgrades" ?

     

    When people start to organise "speed runs" for dungeons and instances, it certainly sounds like they're grinding...

    Very good question :D 

    I hope they restrict the grind that Underworld and FoW have become, also the elitism (LF no noob, need 500 of this tokens to join our party) might surface already, which is very disturbing :/

  • botrytisbotrytis In Flux, MIPosts: 2,567Member
    Originally posted by The_Korrigan
    Originally posted by SpottyGekko

    As a non-player, there's only one thing that puzzles me about the general content of this thread: "In a game where gear is said to be relatively trivial, why are so many players focused on making heaps of gold in the quickest possible time ? What do they need it for ?"

     

    What happened to: "GW2 is all about the fun of playing, not grinding for upgrades" ?

     

    When people start to organise "speed runs" for dungeons and instances, it certainly sounds like they're grinding...

    Because they can't get rid of the EQ/WoW clone grind mentality. They just don't know better, it's the only way to play a MMORPG for them.

    QFT - people have issues with changing the way they do things. It is human nature.

     

    People need to think outside the box sometimes.

    image

    "In 50 years, when I talk to my grandchildren about these days, I'll make sure to mention what an accomplished MMO player I was. They are going to be so proud ..."
    by Naqaj - 7/17/2013 MMORPG.com forum

  • wowfan1996wowfan1996 NonePosts: 719Member

    ANet doesn't want us to be able to farm gold because they want to force us to buy gold via cash shop. This is the ONE AND ONLY reason for the recent nerfs. And what they officially say it's unimportant because it's no different from any other damage control PR crap.

    MMORPG genre is dead. Long live MMOCS (Massively Multiplayer Online Cash Shop).

  • TardcoreTardcore MinskPosts: 2,325Member
    Originally posted by The_Korrigan
    Originally posted by SpottyGekko

    As a non-player, there's only one thing that puzzles me about the general content of this thread: "In a game where gear is said to be relatively trivial, why are so many players focused on making heaps of gold in the quickest possible time ? What do they need it for ?"

     

    What happened to: "GW2 is all about the fun of playing, not grinding for upgrades" ?

     

    When people start to organise "speed runs" for dungeons and instances, it certainly sounds like they're grinding...

    Because they can't get rid of the EQ/WoW clone grind mentality. They just don't know better, it's the only way to play a MMORPG for them.

    Oh. So they're playing it wrong.

    Natch.

    image

    "Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "

  • TardcoreTardcore MinskPosts: 2,325Member
    Originally posted by DarkPony
    Originally posted by Tardcore
    Originally posted by DarkPony

    Don't steal identities, guys. It's worse than insulting prophets.

    p.s. Hi Tardcore. Glad to see you alive and kicking. <3

     

     

     

    YOU!!??

     

     

    WTF HAVE YOU

     

     

    BEEN MAN!!??

     

    . . . . Er . . . I mean yeah, likewise

     

     

    I am on a mission from god. He instructed me to spend my free time making a kick-ass armor mod for Skyrim rather than waste my time telling people "I told you so" on the mmorpg.com GW2 section. ^_^

     

    Certainly seems a lot more productive endeaver. Let me know when its ready. And welocme back, here's some hornet repellent.

    image

    "Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "

  • YamotaYamota LondonPosts: 6,620Member
    Originally posted by Foomerang

     


    Originally posted by gessekai332

    Originally posted by bcbully I haven't did any pve since the patch, plus I never have ove 70 silver wnyways,  but it looks like people are pretty up set on the official forums. I hear you can only do some many DEs now and there are "drop diminsihing returns" now?  Here are a couple links. https://forum-en.guildwars2.com/forum/game/gw2/Does-ANet-think-they-are-a-lot-smarter-than-us https://forum-en.guildwars2.com/forum/game/gw2/I-m-playing-this-game-to-afford-my-repair-bills https://forum-en.guildwars2.com/forum/game/gw2/Dear-ArenaNet-Please-help-us-understand-your-philosophy-on-grind https://forum-en.guildwars2.com/forum/game/gw2/Where-is-all-my-money https://forum-en.guildwars2.com/forum/game/gw2/So-what-are-we-doing-now "I understand they don’t want us to run dungeons anymore, and world exploration reaps really bad rewards. Also the only way I can tell to get good items is crafting, but that requires those bags from dungeons that we are not supposed to be running."   "I can live with having to do a lot of things to get something I want or having really small % chance. But this is actively preventing me from doing anything worth doing in the game."   "I understand that the change to dungeons is to encourage people to play a larger variety. I also understand that the mob-type loot-lock is to discourage botters. However, these measures infringe upon our gameplay too much, and are counter to what the endgame requires."   What are you guys thinking?
    all the nerfs they made were necessary for the good of the game economy. Being able to get 25 silver + drops every 20 minutes by farming 1 instance is NOT OK. I dont want to be pigeonholed into running CoF every night just because its is 10x more lucrative than everything else out there. As much as I like getting richer than everybody else I actually want to enjoy my game experience and have a variety of gameplay options that are equally as lucrative.
    Game economy my ass, it devalued their precious cash shop.

     

    Bingo, finally someone who gets it. Every game with a cash-shop will have changes to increase the revenue they get from it. This is an example of such a change and more will come.

  • AG-VukAG-Vuk Phoenix, AZPosts: 823Member Uncommon
    I don't know, you have a game whose model , single release cost , no monthly charge for content/maintaninence/updates and a cash shop.  Then they add ways to attempt to generate further income by manipulating the game to make the cash shop more relavant ? Caveate emptor. There is no such thing as free in the world. No matter how much lipstick you put on a pig and dress it up and try to disguise it , it still gets back to it's nature. The corporate structure can't help itself , the pressure to generate income is too great.

    image
  • wowfan1996wowfan1996 NonePosts: 719Member

    BTW, ANet is in 100% damage control mode now. I made some posts on the official forums today and they were all deleted by mods. I mean ALL. Anyone who ever posted on their forums knows that the wordfilter is so ridiculous I couldn't post anything offensive even if I wanted to. But the funny part is I didn't even try. I only slightly criticized their latest desisions.

    All in all, this is just sad. Instead of listening to players they released some meaningless PR blah-blah-blah and unleashed their forum police on us. Way to go, dear ANet, way to go.

    I never was a huge fan of Rift but I must say that at least Trion tried to listen, honestly tried to deliver what their players wanted and ultimately they got quite some things right. And ANet... I have no words.... either they had this devios plan all along or they just turned evil overnight. In any case their behavior, their treatment of their customers is simply disgusting.

    MMORPG genre is dead. Long live MMOCS (Massively Multiplayer Online Cash Shop).

  • SiphaedSiphaed Everywhere!Posts: 877Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by bcbully

    I haven't did any pve since the patch, plus I never have over 70 silver anyways,  but it looks like people are pretty upset on the official forums. I hear you can only do some many DEs now and there are "drop diminsihing returns" now?  Here are a couple links.

    https://forum-en.guildwars2.com/forum/game/gw2/Does-ANet-think-they-are-a-lot-smarter-than-us

    https://forum-en.guildwars2.com/forum/game/gw2/I-m-playing-this-game-to-afford-my-repair-bills

    https://forum-en.guildwars2.com/forum/game/gw2/Dear-ArenaNet-Please-help-us-understand-your-philosophy-on-grind

    https://forum-en.guildwars2.com/forum/game/gw2/Where-is-all-my-money

    https://forum-en.guildwars2.com/forum/game/gw2/So-what-are-we-doing-now

    "I understand they don’t want us to run dungeons anymore, and world exploration reaps really bad rewards. Also the only way I can tell to get good items is crafting, but that requires those bags from dungeons that we are not supposed to be running."

     

    "I can live with having to do a lot of things to get something I want or having really small % chance. But this is actively preventing me from doing anything worth doing in the game."

     

    "I understand that the change to dungeons is to encourage people to play a larger variety. I also understand that the mob-type loot-lock is to discourage botters. However, these measures infringe upon our gameplay too much, and are counter to what the endgame requires."

     

    What are you guys thinking?

    That's not a "money making nerf", that's a reduction in Dungeon farming/spaming for speed runs.  I've gone into multiple zones in the past week (map exploration), only to find the /map chat filled with spam about "LF1M CoF speed, EXPERIENCED ONLY".   First off, that kind of spam is obnoxious; but worse off it's that elitist crap in WoW that I'd left because.  I don't want that crap here.  Gone, get ride of it.  Good ridance.!


  • SnarlingWolfSnarlingWolf Thereiam, ARPosts: 2,697Member
    Originally posted by Infeareal

    So let me give you a basic rundown of my mostly casual experience with Gold in GW2.

    Two characters I have that I am playing the most are 31 (mesmer) and 25 (ranger)

    With gold I have purchased any gear I have needed if something became outdated (very cheap)

    Bought enough Gems with gold to purchase the Digital Deluxe Upgrade, 1 additional character slot, and a suit of cosmetic armor.

    Currently I have roughly 13 gold on me. 95% of my income has come from trading on the AH. I do not play the AH game I have in the past, the tools in game make it simple to sell things. Now to be honest I have done 0 crafting, I grab every resource node I see as I run past, and kill every mob in my way to get to where I am going, and sell every last thing I do not need.

    I have a friend who has his main at 80 and has quite a formidable gold reserve from mostly crafted stuff. The only people I know who are having money problems have not been using the AH, and have been stock piling every piece of crafting material they get along with breaking down every weapon/armor they find.

    Well to be fair, they stuck an annoying monthly of x salvaged items. So when I realized the random salvage junk drops were very low, and that I'd never hit that achievement with only those junk drops, compared to the weapons/armor pieces I didn't need I started salvaging those to try and get that achievement in.

    That being said, at my currently lowly level 27 I haven't had an issue with money, but I don't know if at hitting 80 I'd have enough gold to get all the stuff I needed.

  • botrytisbotrytis In Flux, MIPosts: 2,567Member
    Originally posted by wowfan1996

    BTW, ANet is in 100% damage control mode now. I made some posts on the official forums today and they were all deleted by mods. I mean ALL. Anyone who ever posted on their forums knows that the wordfilter is so ridiculous I couldn't post anything offensive even if I wanted to. But the funny part is I didn't even try. I only slightly criticized their latest desisions.

    All in all, this is just sad. Instead of listening to players they released some meaningless PR blah-blah-blah and unleashed their forum police on us. Way to go, dear ANet, way to go.

    I never was a huge fan of Rift but I must say that at least Trion tried to listen, honestly tried to deliver what their players wanted and ultimately they got quite some things right. And ANet... I have no words.... either they had this devios plan all along or they just turned evil overnight. In any case their behavior, their treatment of their customers is simply disgusting.

    they are not in 100% damage control - please don't think yourself so important. If you use any swear words it gets deleted. Do you feel the NEED or HAVE to use them to express yourself? Can't you express yourself in a more constructive way?

     

    Actually A.Net does listen to the players, often times to their own detriment (Trion is great for that with the - PLS NERF X BUILD). A.Net did that in GW1, often to the detriment of hearing, Nerf Y now. I think they are more mature now and trying to listen to REASONABLE suggestions not self-serving ones.

     

    People were farming certain dungeons just for gold and items to sell. I mean a lvl 80 legendary or Elite item going for 2 gold because there were 10 such items in the CS for trade? That needs a nerf - sorry to disappoint you.

    image

    "In 50 years, when I talk to my grandchildren about these days, I'll make sure to mention what an accomplished MMO player I was. They are going to be so proud ..."
    by Naqaj - 7/17/2013 MMORPG.com forum

  • TsaboHavocTsaboHavoc PinheiralPosts: 351Member
    speed runs for money,  GOLD SELLERS must be mad now...
  • xpiherxpiher Indianapolis, INPosts: 3,311Member

     

    Originally posted by ennymith

    Gee what a surprise, a game who's revenue model is based on cash shop sales, takes measures to insure that players have no in game alternative that does not invovle massive grind.  Who would have thunk it?

    The further in we get with GW2, the more clearly it strickly adheres to standard cash shop based game practices that leave you little choice but to pony up to buy gold from the cash shop.

    Between repair bills, waypoint costs and limiting how much players can 'farm', Anet insures that the cash shop is the only viable alternative to acquire anything without massive grind.  For a game that plastered 'no grind' PR all over the media, GW2 is just another 'me too'  in the world of cash shop based games which offers two choices, grind or cash shop.

    Are you people really that daft. I don't normally through out insults but this is freaking rediculous. ITS NOT ABOUT THE CASH SHOP. ANET's busniess modle isn't reliant on the cash shop. GW1 survived years without the cash shop. ANET owns their own servers. 

    The coding is in place to thwart gold farmers, and to encourage people to do more than the same content over and over again. It existed in GW1.  GW 1 didn't have a cash shop for years and never had a gem store. Get off of it.

    The farming code, from what I understand, only affets the end rewards from DEs and Dungeons. Not from mobs out in the game world. This is done to prevent people, and gold sellers, from farming massive amounts of gold by doing 10 min repeateable DEs and dungeons without any challange. If it affects mob drops thats messed up, but it doesn't appear to affect mob drops from what I could tell from playing today. 

    Edit: I saw someone complain about getting basically 0 items from bandits after farming for 40 mins. Guess what you can do to get around it? Move to a new area. Bam, farming code circumvented. 

     

    image
    Games:
    Currently playing:Nothing
    Will play: Darkfall: Unholy Wars
    Past games:
    Guild Wars 2 - Xpiher Duminous
    Xpiher's GW2
    GW 1 - Xpiher Duminous
    Darkfall - Xpiher Duminous (NA) retired
    AoC - Xpiher (Tyranny) retired
    Warhammer - Xpiher

  • wowfan1996wowfan1996 NonePosts: 719Member
    Originally posted by botrytis
    they are not in 100% damage control - please don't think yourself so important. If you use any swear words it gets deleted. Do you feel the NEED or HAVE to use them to express yourself?

    Why bother with a reply if you didn't even read my post?

    /facepalm

    ---

    Anyway. Fanboys gonna deny, but right now GW2 is heading to fail country. Full speed. ANet still has time to come to their senses but if they'll proceed with making poor decisions and choosing easy ways this time will run out very quickly.

    MMORPG genre is dead. Long live MMOCS (Massively Multiplayer Online Cash Shop).

  • XiaokiXiaoki White Pigeon, MIPosts: 2,602Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by xpiher
     The farming code, from what I understand, only affets the end rewards from DEs and Dungeons. Not from mobs out in the game world.  
    It does affect open world mob drops.


    Also, I love that one of the anti-farming measures is to give you diminishing returns for rewards from a dungeon run if you complete the dungeon in less than 30 minutes and its currently broken.

    Classic.

  • wowfan1996wowfan1996 NonePosts: 719Member
    Originally posted by Xiaoki
    one of the anti-farming measures is to give you diminishing returns for rewards from a dungeon run if you complete the dungeon in less than 30 minutes

    You gotta punish players for doing their job well. Brilliant.

    MMORPG genre is dead. Long live MMOCS (Massively Multiplayer Online Cash Shop).

  • xpiherxpiher Indianapolis, INPosts: 3,311Member


    Originally posted by Xiaoki  

    Originally posted by xpiher  The farming code, from what I understand, only affets the end rewards from DEs and Dungeons. Not from mobs out in the game world.  
    It does affect open world mob drops.   Also, I love that one of the anti-farming measures is to give you diminishing returns for rewards from a dungeon run if you complete the dungeon in less than 30 minutes and its currently broken. Classic.
    Then it should be tweaked. That said, you can easily circumvent the farming code by moving to a new area. Just like GW1. Easy. 

    The dungeon kicks in if you complete it in under 30mins if you do the same path in that time fram correct? If not, it should be tweaked. I haven't done all the dungeons yet, but the ones I have done required more than 30mins to complete even doing it as fast as possible (no deaths). Doing it quicker would require stopping half way through. 

    I'm not saying ANET is the end all be all of developers, but people are really going over board with this "oh it must be because they want people buying gold" thing. No, its just their design philsophy. It existed in GW1 which didn't have a cash shop. Its to prevent gold farmers. 


    Originally posted by wowfan1996

    Originally posted by Xiaoki one of the anti-farming measures is to give you diminishing returns for rewards from a dungeon run if you complete the dungeon in less than 30 minutes
    You gotta punish players for doing their job well. Brilliant.
     

    You clearly don't play the game.

    image
    Games:
    Currently playing:Nothing
    Will play: Darkfall: Unholy Wars
    Past games:
    Guild Wars 2 - Xpiher Duminous
    Xpiher's GW2
    GW 1 - Xpiher Duminous
    Darkfall - Xpiher Duminous (NA) retired
    AoC - Xpiher (Tyranny) retired
    Warhammer - Xpiher

  • C1d0sC1d0s Marshall, TXPosts: 238Member
    Originally posted by wowfan1996
    Originally posted by Xiaoki
    one of the anti-farming measures is to give you diminishing returns for rewards from a dungeon run if you complete the dungeon in less than 30 minutes

    You gotta punish players for doing their job well. Brilliant.

    How else are you supposed to teach them how to play?

    Since GW1, it's been pretty clear the Devs only care about enforcing their ideas of "fun" and "fair" by forcing particular builds, making artifically difficult PVE content, and simply pigeon holing over all.

    Don't expect anything different from GW2. They're trying so hard to be different than WoW that they're forgetting what made it a massive success in the first place. As they're making these terrible decisions, all they're clinging to is "Oh, yeah, we intended it that way. You're playing wrong! At least it's NOT Warcraft. RIGHT? AM I RIGHT?"

    At least when I played WoW there was some diversity in what I could play in regards to both PVP and PVE content.

    image
  • wowfan1996wowfan1996 NonePosts: 719Member
    Originally posted by xpiher
    You clearly don't play the game.

    I do. But if ANet won't revert the changes I probably won't stay for long. It's a huge letdown because they promised an open-minded game where we'll be able to do what we feel like. And now they take a 180* turn and tell us how we should play a game we paid for.

    If this isn't a scam than I don't know what is.

    MMORPG genre is dead. Long live MMOCS (Massively Multiplayer Online Cash Shop).

  • xpiherxpiher Indianapolis, INPosts: 3,311Member


    Originally posted by C1d0s

    Originally posted by wowfan1996

    Originally posted by Xiaoki one of the anti-farming measures is to give you diminishing returns for rewards from a dungeon run if you complete the dungeon in less than 30 minutes
    You gotta punish players for doing their job well. Brilliant.
    How else are you supposed to teach them how to play? Since GW1, it's been pretty clear the Devs only care about enforcing their ideas of "fun" and "fair" by forcing particular builds, making artifically difficult PVE content, and simply pigeon holing over all. Don't expect anything different from GW2. They're trying so hard to be different than WoW that they're forgetting what made it a massive success in the first place. As they're making these terrible decisions, all they're clinging to is "Oh, yeah, we intended it that way. You're playing wrong! At least it's NOT Warcraft. RIGHT? AM I RIGHT?"
    Explain hightlight please. If you are going to make a make statements like these you should explain it.


    Originally posted by wowfan1996

    Originally posted by xpiher You clearly don't play the game.
    I do. But if ANet won't revert the changes I probably won't stay for long though.
     

    While I haven't done every dungeon, the ones I've done without deaths have all taken longer than 30mins to complete (each boss taking 5 mins + travel time + kill extra mobs). If you are doing it in under 30mins, you are stoping at some point and going back. ANET doesn't want you doing that because it imbalances reward to time ratio. Easy way to circumvent it is by doing a little bit more content or swap between dungeons.
     

    image
    Games:
    Currently playing:Nothing
    Will play: Darkfall: Unholy Wars
    Past games:
    Guild Wars 2 - Xpiher Duminous
    Xpiher's GW2
    GW 1 - Xpiher Duminous
    Darkfall - Xpiher Duminous (NA) retired
    AoC - Xpiher (Tyranny) retired
    Warhammer - Xpiher

  • botrytisbotrytis In Flux, MIPosts: 2,567Member
    Originally posted by wowfan1996
    Originally posted by botrytis
    they are not in 100% damage control - please don't think yourself so important. If you use any swear words it gets deleted. Do you feel the NEED or HAVE to use them to express yourself?

    Why bother with a reply if you didn't even read my post?

    /facepalm

    ---

    Anyway. Fanboys gonna deny, but right now GW2 is heading to fail country. Full speed. ANet still has time to come to their senses but if they'll proceed with making poor decisions and choosing easy ways this time will run out very quickly.

    I read your post.  I have been critical as much as the next person.

     

    A.net has been dealing with issues as fast as they can. They are not as big as Trion or Blizzard but they are trying. As I said, looking at the trading post BEFORE the speed run nerfs, you could see many dungeon Elite drops for sale cheap - sometimes up to 10 of one item. That is ludicrous if a person put the work to get the item and found out someone could just buy it. It doesn't make the item elite any more does it?

     

    GW2 is not going into FAIL Country - you are delusional as much as the UBER-fan boys if you think it is.

     

    image

    "In 50 years, when I talk to my grandchildren about these days, I'll make sure to mention what an accomplished MMO player I was. They are going to be so proud ..."
    by Naqaj - 7/17/2013 MMORPG.com forum

  • XiaokiXiaoki White Pigeon, MIPosts: 2,602Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by xpiher
    Originally posted by Xiaoki   Originally posted by wowfan1996 Originally posted by Xiaoki one of the anti-farming measures is to give you diminishing returns for rewards from a dungeon run if you complete the dungeon in less than 30 minutes
    You gotta punish players for doing their job well. Brilliant.
     

    You clearly don't play the game.



    No, he clearly does.


    There are quite a few paths that can easily be done in under 30 minutes with a good group. And Im not talking about a highly specialized, hardcore group with voice comms. Im talking about just a group that knows what they are doing.


    Heck, CoF path #2, the dungeon path that started this whole thing can still be done in under 30 minutes. Well, if Magg doesnt bug out during the Magmacyte event.

  • wowfan1996wowfan1996 NonePosts: 719Member
    Originally posted by botrytis
    A.net has been dealing with issues as fast as they can.

    If this is dealing with issues then I'm Gandalf. Look, they only care about their cash shop profits that's quite obvious by now. Also they don't have any good tools to track and ban bots (otherwise they would). So they are desperately trying to limit the amount of gold bots are able to farm. And only because 3rd party goldsellers hurts gem sales.

    But since their decisions affect everyone, players will actually buy more gold not less. And since 3rd party is still cheaper, all these "measures" only help botters in the long run. Oh, and there will be even more hacked accounts of course.

    ANet developers should stop smoking pot and start looking for actual solutions.

    MMORPG genre is dead. Long live MMOCS (Massively Multiplayer Online Cash Shop).

  • C1d0sC1d0s Marshall, TXPosts: 238Member
    Originally posted by xpiher

     


    Originally posted by C1d0s

    Originally posted by wowfan1996

    Originally posted by Xiaoki one of the anti-farming measures is to give you diminishing returns for rewards from a dungeon run if you complete the dungeon in less than 30 minutes
    You gotta punish players for doing their job well. Brilliant.
    How else are you supposed to teach them how to play? Since GW1, it's been pretty clear the Devs only care about enforcing their ideas of "fun" and "fair" by forcing particular builds, making artifically difficult PVE content, and simply pigeon holing over all. Don't expect anything different from GW2. They're trying so hard to be different than WoW that they're forgetting what made it a massive success in the first place. As they're making these terrible decisions, all they're clinging to is "Oh, yeah, we intended it that way. You're playing wrong! At least it's NOT Warcraft. RIGHT? AM I RIGHT?"
    Explain hightlight please. If you are going to make a make statements like these you should explain it.

     

     


    Originally posted by wowfan1996

    Originally posted by xpiher You clearly don't play the game.
    I do. But if ANet won't revert the changes I probably won't stay for long though.
     

     

    While I haven't done every dungeon, the ones I've done without deaths have all taken longer than 30mins to complete (each boss taking 5 mins + travel time + kill extra mobs). If you are doing it in under 30mins, you are stoping at some point and going back. ANET doesn't want you doing that because it imbalances reward to time ratio. Easy way to circumvent it is by doing a little bit more content or swap between dungeons.
     

    Teaching the players how to play is quite self-explanatory. They're modifying the game in a way to promote their version of play, instead of how the actual customers prefer. Regardless of designer's intention, players will find a playstyle that suits them - it doesn't matter if it was what the Devs had in mind. This has been true since the dawn of MMO's.

    GW2 being so different from WoW, to me, is also pretty obvious. The WHOLE time it was being promoted, from beta to all the other PR events, it was hailed as something revolutionary and entirely different that what was already on the market. IE - Big dog on the block: WOW. Since then, that's all everyone can talk about:

    "OMG, DOES THIS SO MUCH BETTR.", " SO DFFRNT FROM WOW", "LOL WOW BABY", "SO GUD. BETTER THAN WOW"

    And yet ANET hasn't done absolutely nothing but continue to turn it into GW1, what with arificially difficult dungeons, anti-farm codes, and forcing players ( the elite, supposively ) to utilize particular classes, with certain weapons and traits to run dungeons for tokens so that they can get pretty-looking skins. Let's not forget also how many times you have to run these pitiful things just to get a single piece of gear, combined with how buggy and down-right broken most of them are - on top of the now reduced reward and inflated difficulty. Half of the dungeon tactics revolve around: "DODGE RED CIRCLE, KITE, KITE, KITE" anyway. I hardly see how that's any different or more fun than anything else we've been taught over our years of MMO-gaming.

    "Oh, that boss with a stupid amount of health and no mechanics was boring? Okay, instead of reducing his health and giving a few abilities that might actually make you sweat.. we'll just tack-on a bunch of untested mechanics and INCREASE his already astounding healthpool so that, not only do you have to stick on a single mob for 45 minutes, but also run around dodging 15 different, buggy mechanics. -- Also, he'll go invulnerable from time-to-time. We don't know why, but who cares! It's more fun this way. Trust us! Just L2P and you'll be fine."

    At least in Warcraft, the grind wasn't excruciatingly mind-numbing without reward. Hell, you could even do whatever dungeons you preferred to get your rewards thanks to universal tokens / points. You could even be ANY CLASS IN THE GAME, WITH ANY SPEC and still contribute effectively.

    So much for being grind-less, casual friendly, and ultra revolutionary ANET.

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