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Why GW2 Lacks Longevity

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  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer ChairPosts: 5,587Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by eggy08
    Originally posted by GeezerGamer

     

    I hate to tell you this, but GW2 will never get away from zerg fights. There are limits that are working in conjunction that will prettymuch ensure that the GW2 Trinity-less mechanics will never become mainstream adaptations in other MMOs.

    In traditional mechanics dodge is a stat that's built into your character. It's handled by RNG mechanics and damage is mitigated accordingly. Now, we have dodge as a manual skill which requires a much higer level of situational awareness than before. And while it's fun like in console games, there is a limit to the amount of information that a person can process. This Condition/boon system requires that all players be situationally aware of the conditions of everyone in the team. Just how well can the average casual gamer adapt to this? It's been called "skill" in GW2. lol, Learning to recognize visual queues and respond accodingly is indeed a skill. But its one we teach to small children and not difficult to master. And while this makes the game more exciting and fun....like a console game, it's got limits. Even the best most coordinated teams would probably begin to break down with much bigger groups in instances.  Now combine this with the lack of   Role focused tanking and healing and now boss fights  must cater more to the individuals. So we can't have these huge bosses with big hits. I'm sure one or the other would handle better, but both mechanics at the same time. Good luck. Best you can do is tweak their AOEs. So now these large fights degenerate into a mass of players running around trying not to stand in red circles while getting as many hits in as possible between boss attacks. Just one big "every man for himself" session

    YAY! FUN!

    Will never get away from zerg fights. Ya, your probably right because sadly people would start making threads constantly on the difficulty of dungeons if they made it so you can't rez during a boss fight. And honestly I think they should, just to stop all this BS about zerging fights and thats how it is easy mode.

    Indirectly lines up with my point as we are talking about wha tthe average player does. Obviusly, the more you move away from niche/hardcore games into games that are meant for the mainstream/casual player, the more this has an overall impact.

    Ever once think that the designers didn't want people to just sit there and press buttons instead of being situationally aware of your sorroundings. I'm not saying other mmos don't require this... but at the same time, other mmos don't punish you nearly as bad for it. Calling hand eye coordination a childs game is just pointless. Would you rather them take the same exact approach that every other MMO took with combat where you can't move and cast, reaction is hardly an issue and fights are generalized to the point of making them tedious?

    To answer that. I'll say Yes I do, and I'll tel lyou why. My pleasure from MMOs comes from building characters and letting them do their thing. I'm a theroycrafter. I want to build my stats to see how they effect what my character does, I don't want them passed up to me. I don't want to be bogged down with that when RNG can handle it. But to me this is the difference between twich games/FPS games/Console games and MMOs. The more you give to me to deal with, the less my character is being "built" and the less strategies I can come up with. I don't want to worry about dodging. Not to say that's the same as not standing in "boss poop" but I think you get what I'm saying here.

    This was a design choice, and it makes you think a little more and be more involved with your game rather than being afk pushing buttons or staring at meters.

     Anarchy online was probably one of the worst games like this, and yet. One of the greatest MMOs.....once they got it working right. One of my all time favorites. Loved the game. Again, the difference bettwen console and MMO. and I think GW2 has a lot of Console feel to it. Not putting that down, It's just not what I'm after.

    Now you can actually follow fights, watch your footing, and instead of just dpsing, you are fighting with your group how you should be, on equal footing rather than expecting someone else to take the brunt of the damage and another heal your wounds.

    Honestly, would you rather it catter to the group comp, rather than the individual?

    Yes

    So that every fight is trivial in nature and your forced to match specific roles? The only thing I enjoyed in WoW and other raid oriented, trinity system MMOs was the interaction with guildies and friends. But now that I can do that and enjoy my PvE experience, how is this game worse in terms of mechanics. This game can easily put in instances as effectively as WoW or any other MMO can regardless of the lack of trinity system. I don't get how you think that cattering to the individual is such a hard concept from cattering to the roles. But if you don't like the dodging system or the fight mechanics, then don't play the instances. If you can enjoy your experience another way, then thats fine. But you can't honestly tell me that any other MMOs system is more complicated and difficult than GW2.

    I fuly respect and recognize the design choice for GW2. And I think that for what it is and what it's supposed to be, It's a fine game, But It really is for single players and small groups. While the masses may love to run around in WVW, for the most part, they are uncoordinated just following the zerg or die trying.

    I guess we can leave out the fact that there are very team oriented fights too BTW, or that people can actually work together to make each other stronger, but you can keep that "every man for himself" quality. In GW2 instead of relying on your healer or tank, you have to rely on yourself while also being a team player, it's not a free for all like you think it is.

    As I said, it's fine in small goroups. But once you move into larger groups it all breaks down.

     

    See responses in red

  • UhwopUhwop Wilm, DEPosts: 1,663Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Angier2758
    Originally posted by SaintPhilip
    Originally posted by Aerowyn
    Originally posted by SaintPhilip

    I will watch the Video later if I have time- But honestly I do not need to...Pretty sure I know whats said.

    I agree too- It does lack longevity. Its not a full fledged MMORPG (more like an ARPG with Massive Online components). Its very casual...

    But, its fun. And it doesnt need Longevity like a subscription title,

    GW2 has done some very creative marketing and essentially sold a F2P cash shop game for $50- $60. Then they will get a small Xpac out every year or so for another $40- $50. Most have at least purchased Bag space from the CS... They are making money hand over fist and do not NEED high player retention (just enough to keep the servers active) and each Xpac will bring an influx of former players back to the game for a short time.

    This was a genius marketing Blitz. And the game is fun.

    No. It doesnt have "staying power" and if it were based on a "sub" I would feel pretty ripped off and (obviously) not re sub...But they already sold me a box and some Bag Space and I play a few hours a week (and plan to play at a casual rate) and it makes a nice second Online game to play while taking a break from your main Game.

    I am happy.

    curious in your opinion as to how it's not a full fledged MMO? 

    Its very much missing the "RPG" part IMHO.

    A full fledged MMO it certainly is . But more of an "ARPG" (action role playing game) that has been simplified and is ultra casual. This is fine, but it truly lacks depth and is more "pick up and play" for a few hours here and there.

    To put it simply- GW2 is more like Diablo (without the Loot) than like FF7 (without the loot). Bad comparison, I know, but I am trying to show a very stark difference in game styles- One being an ARPG.

     Well we call WoW an MMORPG yet GW2 has more roleplaying in it (factually speaking it actually does) so why is GW2 not an RPG?

    Or are you of the mindset that WoW is an ARPG?

     

    PS - Geezergamer : are you really suggesting that situational awareness is a child level skill?  Your post seriously doesn't make sense... first you say your average gamer will never be able to adapt to GW2's system then you say the skills that are required they teach to children.  Are you saying everyone is stupid?

    You don't need to bash skills you don't have.  Situational awareness is a skill taught throughout life and is probably one of those "top tier" skills you can learn.  It;s used everywhere.

     Situational awareness isn't taught, it's developed individually.  Either you have it or you don't.  If you're an American football fan then the easiest way to explain it is, Great players tend to have very good awareness while bad players tend to have none.  The lions QB threw a deep pass into the endzone on sunday night, the wide out simply looked around in confusion because he had no idea that the ball was coming his way.  What should have been a touchdown turned into a loss of downs because the reciever had poor aweness. 

    You can teach a reciever to have the best hands in the NFL, but if he has no aweness he's not going to make plays.  TO had great hands, but was never at the same level of aweness as guys like Rice or Moss, who could run 40 yards down a feild, with everything to their back, and make a catch without ever looking over their shoulders because they knew when and were the ball was going to be. 

    Beleive it or not, most real life skills have nothing to do with being good in a video game.  Situational awareness is not a skill that transfers from the real world to make you better in most video games, especially not GW2.  Seeing information on a screen does not develop, or require any form of situational awareness, it only requires you to not be blind.  Not to mention, GW2 skills aren't exactly set up in such a way that you need to be aware of what the other guy is doing, only what is happening to your character. 

    In fact, there was an article about a blind guy that raided in WoW.

    GW2 is absolutely easy enough to be played by young children who have yet to develop any worthwhile skillsets.  It doesn't take a geniuse to face something and press buttons, and the game practically tells you when you need to use a particular skill.  Seriously, the screen turning red is usually a pretty good indicator to hit button 6 or start dodging.

  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer ChairPosts: 5,587Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Uhwop
    Originally posted by Angier2758
    Originally posted by SaintPhilip
    Originally posted by Aerowyn
    Originally posted by SaintPhilip

    I will watch the Video later if I have time- But honestly I do not need to...Pretty sure I know whats said.

    I agree too- It does lack longevity. Its not a full fledged MMORPG (more like an ARPG with Massive Online components). Its very casual...

    But, its fun. And it doesnt need Longevity like a subscription title,

    GW2 has done some very creative marketing and essentially sold a F2P cash shop game for $50- $60. Then they will get a small Xpac out every year or so for another $40- $50. Most have at least purchased Bag space from the CS... They are making money hand over fist and do not NEED high player retention (just enough to keep the servers active) and each Xpac will bring an influx of former players back to the game for a short time.

    This was a genius marketing Blitz. And the game is fun.

    No. It doesnt have "staying power" and if it were based on a "sub" I would feel pretty ripped off and (obviously) not re sub...But they already sold me a box and some Bag Space and I play a few hours a week (and plan to play at a casual rate) and it makes a nice second Online game to play while taking a break from your main Game.

    I am happy.

    curious in your opinion as to how it's not a full fledged MMO? 

    Its very much missing the "RPG" part IMHO.

    A full fledged MMO it certainly is . But more of an "ARPG" (action role playing game) that has been simplified and is ultra casual. This is fine, but it truly lacks depth and is more "pick up and play" for a few hours here and there.

    To put it simply- GW2 is more like Diablo (without the Loot) than like FF7 (without the loot). Bad comparison, I know, but I am trying to show a very stark difference in game styles- One being an ARPG.

     Well we call WoW an MMORPG yet GW2 has more roleplaying in it (factually speaking it actually does) so why is GW2 not an RPG?

    Or are you of the mindset that WoW is an ARPG?

     

    PS - Geezergamer : are you really suggesting that situational awareness is a child level skill?  Your post seriously doesn't make sense... first you say your average gamer will never be able to adapt to GW2's system then you say the skills that are required they teach to children.  Are you saying everyone is stupid?

    You don't need to bash skills you don't have.  Situational awareness is a skill taught throughout life and is probably one of those "top tier" skills you can learn.  It;s used everywhere.

     Situational awareness isn't taught, it's developed individually.  Either you have it or you don't.  If you're an American football fan then the easiest way to explain it is, Great players tend to have very good awareness while bad players tend to have none.  The lions QB threw a deep pass into the endzone on sunday night, the wide out simply looked around in confusion because he had no idea that the ball was coming his way.  What should have been a touchdown turned into a loss of downs because the reciever had poor aweness. 

    You can teach a reciever to have the best hands in the NFL, but if he has no aweness he's not going to make plays.  TO had great hands, but was never at the same level of aweness as guys like Rice or Moss, who could run 40 yards down a feild, with everything to their back, and make a catch without ever looking over their shoulders because they knew when and were the ball was going to be. 

    Beleive it or not, most real life skills have nothing to do with being good in a video game.  Situational awareness is not a skill that transfers from the real world to make you better in most video games, especially not GW2.  Seeing information on a screen does not develop, or require any form of situational awareness, it only requires you to not be blind.  Not to mention, GW2 skills aren't exactly set up in such a way that you need to be aware of what the other guy is doing, only what is happening to your character. 

    In fact, there was an article about a blind guy that raided in WoW.

    GW2 is absolutely easy enough to be played by young children who have yet to develop any worthwhile skillsets.  It doesn't take a geniuse to face something and press buttons, and the game practically tells you when you need to use a particular skill.  Seriously, the screen turning red is usually a pretty good indicator to hit button 6 or start dodging.

    My point was also missed about the fat that regardles sof what you call it. Let's say "Paying Attention" Regardless of how it's learned, developers instict or what ever. No mater what level of skill you have, it becomes increasingly difficult to maintain the bigger the groups get. This fact is more profound in GW2 than in other MMOs. (Can't speak for TERA)

  • QSatuQSatu WarsawPosts: 1,733Member Uncommon
    I think the only thing which will dictate the longevity of the game will be the quality of patches/expansions ANet will release.
  • itgrowlsitgrowls newport news, VAPosts: 2,951Member
    Originally posted by Aerowyn
    Originally posted by SaintPhilip

    I will watch the Video later if I have time- But honestly I do not need to...Pretty sure I know whats said.

    I agree too- It does lack longevity. Its not a full fledged MMORPG (more like an ARPG with Massive Online components). Its very casual...

    But, its fun. And it doesnt need Longevity like a subscription title,

    GW2 has done some very creative marketing and essentially sold a F2P cash shop game for $50- $60. Then they will get a small Xpac out every year or so for another $40- $50. Most have at least purchased Bag space from the CS... They are making money hand over fist and do not NEED high player retention (just enough to keep the servers active) and each Xpac will bring an influx of former players back to the game for a short time.

    This was a genius marketing Blitz. And the game is fun.

    No. It doesnt have "staying power" and if it were based on a "sub" I would feel pretty ripped off and (obviously) not re sub...But they already sold me a box and some Bag Space and I play a few hours a week (and plan to play at a casual rate) and it makes a nice second Online game to play while taking a break from your main Game.

    I am happy.

    curious in your opinion as to how it's not a full fledged MMO? 

    I'm not. I'm pretty sure it's some nonsense we've heard before, namely prelaunch that they've rehashed to try to make it sound logically valid.

  • itgrowlsitgrowls newport news, VAPosts: 2,951Member
    The only thing that will dictate the longevity of this game will be time. And as a wibbly wobbly timey wimey fan of Dr Who I can tell you, to wait for it to happen naturally, in order. OR jump in your TARDIS and see for yourself. Until then, the rest of us will have to wait and see won't we :)
  • RokurgeptaRokurgepta wallington, NJPosts: 2,136Member
    Originally posted by TalulaRose
    Originally posted by MMOwanderer
    Originally posted by KingPinoy

    I am currently a lvl 80 ranger, I enjoy the game, but at times I grind dungeons just for money and gear.(tokens) It does burn out quickly, but thank god its not a sub game. Sub games i always feel like i have to get my moneys worth. I see how some are burnt out, its just about what kind of player you are.

    This part makes me *sigh*.

    I seems people have this compulsion in sub games to "get their money's worth" in a weird way. Some are willing to give up 10 bucks for a character slot, which is IMO a rip off, but if one doesn't play the game for hours upon hours they feel like they're wasting money on their sub.

    It seems like mmorpgs lonegevity isn't even judged by game mechanics and quality anymore, but about how free or not it is. Makes me wonder what would happen if GW2 had a aubscription fee.

    Makes me wonder what would happen if GW2 had a aubscription fee.

     

    Most of the people posting and playing wouldn't pay and GW2 wouldn't be the best thing since sliced bread they claim it t be.

    No sub is one of the main reasons why people are playing. Just look at the thread that asked how many people spent money in the shop. 70% of the people who responded haven't. Have to wonder if the game is as good as some say if the majority of people playing don't want to spend money to support it.

     Considering games with a cash shop say they can turn a profit on just 10% of the players using the cash shop I would say 30% means the game is at least as good as people are saying. People already spent money to support it, we paid for the box. Learn how this works instead of making posts that clearly show you lack knowledge on the subject and reality of the econimics involved.

     

    You claim MOST of the people playing would not pay, besides the obvious answer how do you know such a thing?

  • sbrite10sbrite10 Vancouver, WAPosts: 71Member
    Originally posted by Aerowyn
    Originally posted by SaintPhilip

    I will watch the Video later if I have time- But honestly I do not need to...Pretty sure I know whats said.

    I agree too- It does lack longevity. Its not a full fledged MMORPG (more like an ARPG with Massive Online components). Its very casual...

    But, its fun. And it doesnt need Longevity like a subscription title,

    GW2 has done some very creative marketing and essentially sold a F2P cash shop game for $50- $60. Then they will get a small Xpac out every year or so for another $40- $50. Most have at least purchased Bag space from the CS... They are making money hand over fist and do not NEED high player retention (just enough to keep the servers active) and each Xpac will bring an influx of former players back to the game for a short time.

    This was a genius marketing Blitz. And the game is fun.

    No. It doesnt have "staying power" and if it were based on a "sub" I would feel pretty ripped off and (obviously) not re sub...But they already sold me a box and some Bag Space and I play a few hours a week (and plan to play at a casual rate) and it makes a nice second Online game to play while taking a break from your main Game.

    I am happy.

    curious in your opinion as to how it's not a full fledged MMO? 

    Yeah I love statements like this with no explanation.Its totally a full fledged MMO.Problem iwth people in MMO's is they think for it to be a "Real MMO" it has to have a sub fee.Not true at all.This whole thread has to be the 10th  or more thread syaing exactly the same thing all based on opinion and not fact.You know what they say about opinions .....

     

    Abolutely this is a ful fledged MMO and has at least the Longevity of its predecessor which is plenty long for any MMO.Granted GW1 had less of the MMO Trappings but this one doesnt.

  • XasapisXasapis VolosPosts: 5,561Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by sookster54

     


    Originally posted by bcbully

    Originally posted by halflife25 Prime time EU, 9 servers are already on medium population. They were all high for first week. We will see how it goes in a month or so.   I haven't checked US servers during prime time.
    I've been looking at this too. US during prime time lastnight were all heavy none were full. There has been about eight or nine servers full up until the last few days.

     

     I think it's too early to use this as an indicator of anything though, because I've "heard" they increased server size. I do think the less populated severs have gotten smaller though, judging by WvW.


    Arenanet increased server capacity and turned on digital sales again, I'm assuming the server capacity also pushed the population threshold as well. Everyday on Yak's Bend, 99% of the zones kicks me into overflow during the evenings (west coast/mountain times).

    That would be one way to explain the increased waiting times in WvW, since server capacity there seems to be the same still.

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