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Star Wars: The Old Republic: Ray Muzyka & Greg Zeschuk Retire from BioWare

245

Comments

  • ScalebaneScalebane La Junta, COPosts: 2,225Member

    All these companies have to do is see what EA the destroyer of game companies has done in the past and that should have been enough info to not sell out to them, but noooooooo all these people are morons and will keep selling their companies to EA.  

    well its probably more to do with greed then being morons...

     

    image

    "The great thing about human language is that it prevents us from sticking to the matter at hand."
    - Lewis Thomas

  • ishistishist Leland, NCPosts: 160Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by finnmacool1
    Originally posted by Vantras

    I love how folks pretend that a founder who sells his/her company to a huge corporate entity is somehow innocent when that huge company butchers the original vision, guts the brand or exploits its strengths.  They call it "selling out" for a reason. These guys built a great company, saw an oppurtunity to reap an enormous harvest when they sold to EA-but they did so with their eyes wide open-they took the cash and sold the baby.  Acting as if their departure now is somehow an act of defiance at how the baby they knowingly sold is being raised is naive and absurd. 

    I dont blame them at all for selling but i also wont pretend that they arent 100% culpable in what BW has turned into.

    This.

    I'm guessing none of you are aware that these two didn't own Bioware. They didn't sell Bioware. They were probably trying to make the best of a losing situation and it took its toll.

    A bit of education: http://www.elevation.com/EP_port_item.asp?id=1

     

     

    In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. - Douglas Adams

  • AsamofAsamof La Canada, CAPosts: 738Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by DSWBeef
    Code for "We hate what EA has done to BW, so we're gone"

     

  • AmbrosiaAmorAmbrosiaAmor Miami, FLPosts: 915Member
    *A moment of silence*

    image

  • MMOGamer71MMOGamer71 Pittsburgh, PAPosts: 1,930Member Common

    The hits just keep on coming with BW and EA.

     

    Hope to see these two again with a real SW MMO.

  • eddieg50eddieg50 Tolland, CTPosts: 1,613Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by AmbrosiaAmor
    *A moment of silence*

     --------------------------as I walk through the valley of death I shall fear no evil

  • TyvolusNextTyvolusNext Gimpy, NVPosts: 192Member
    Originally posted by adam_nox
    After fan backlash over 3 recent releases, I can't blame them for retiring.  Even if they didn't feel like EA was sucking the life out of the gaming industry and their souls, the constant whining and crying of people regarding DA2 and ME3 would be enough to make anyone give the gaming industry the middle finger.

     I wrote Bioware off after NWN.  I received as gifts the original ME and DA:O.  Havent played or bought any Bioware games since then., they have been dead to me for a long while. on to my point, everything I read and heard about DA2 and ME3 would lead me to believe that the criticisms heaped upon both of these guys was more then deserved.  You know what you can do with that middle finger of yours ?  Enjoy.

     

  • MilitantMilitant nyc, NYPosts: 48Member
    The first one was your typical political-corporate cop out statement 'spend time with family, friends blah blah blah'... Translation: FU EA

    Second one gave details about his beer plans which he clearly has a passion for and may just be legitimately time for a change for him.
  • dotdotdashdotdotdash Llandrindod WellsPosts: 364Member

    Personally I think this has little to do with EA.

    When Bioware was sold to EA, the studio was arguably at the top of its game (at least financially). They had no funding short falls, no real debt to speak of, and some of the most talented developers and designers in the industry under the Bioware banner. SWTOR was fully funded by Bioware's investors and Lucas Arts, Mass Effect had proven to be a successful console RPG, and Dragon Age: Origins was promising to be a stellar PC RPG franchise. They had all of the bases covered, and the future seemed bright.

    The only reason to sell at that point in a company's history is if you wish to make the most money you can from a sell off, and that implies that the company holds no value beyond the economics of the arrangement. If that is true, if Greg and Ray sold because they wanted to make money, it's pretty self evident that they already had a desire to exit the industry. They were already VERY hands off with the development of Bioware games, leaving most of the running to senior developers and designers such as Casey Hudson.

    I doubt it has anything to do with EA. I think these two guys have been making video games for 20+ years. They've made some of the best, most engaging RPGs in the history of gaming, and they've made a shed load of money.

    So yeah... people should stop and think before they point their bitter fingers at EA. EA isn't a great company, certainly, but sometimes it's not the problem. Sometimes there are other things to consider.

     

  • dotdotdashdotdotdash Llandrindod WellsPosts: 364Member
    Originally posted by ishist
    Originally posted by finnmacool1
    Originally posted by Vantras

    I love how folks pretend that a founder who sells his/her company to a huge corporate entity is somehow innocent when that huge company butchers the original vision, guts the brand or exploits its strengths.  They call it "selling out" for a reason. These guys built a great company, saw an oppurtunity to reap an enormous harvest when they sold to EA-but they did so with their eyes wide open-they took the cash and sold the baby.  Acting as if their departure now is somehow an act of defiance at how the baby they knowingly sold is being raised is naive and absurd. 

    I dont blame them at all for selling but i also wont pretend that they arent 100% culpable in what BW has turned into.

    This.

    I'm guessing none of you are aware that these two didn't own Bioware. They didn't sell Bioware. They were probably trying to make the best of a losing situation and it took its toll.

    A bit of education: http://www.elevation.com/EP_port_item.asp?id=1

     

     

    Greg and Ray sold Bioware and Pandemic to Elevation Partners in return for lofty stakes in Elevation, as well as seats on the board of directors of Elevation. In addition to this, employees at Bioware also got stakes in Elevation.

    The deal CLEARLY outlined a "partnership of equals"; no single entity within the arrangement held any more authority than another. Bioware, Pandemic and Elevation were equals.

    You need to go and read the literature, my friend. When Bioware was sold to EA, Greg and Ray would have had to approve it :) They were complicit in the sale, not victims of it.

  • FrodoFraginsFrodoFragins Manchester, NHPosts: 2,926Member Uncommon
    So due to a non compete clause they have to retire from the gaming industry?  It's either that or EA took away their love of game development.
  • gervaise1gervaise1 .Posts: 2,065Member Uncommon

    Mark Jacobs left EA Mythic just over ten months after WAR was launched and about two months after the major staff cuts that kicked in post launch. And that was pretty much the end of Mythic.

    Ray & Greg have left just over nine months after SWTOR was launched and about five months after the start of major staff cuts (6 months notice being needed it seems). And that, I feel, is pretty much the "end" of Bioware.

    Looking forward I can see an EA reorganisation and EA Bioware being combined with either EA Maxis or EA Interactive - Sports, Social and "the rest" maybe.

  • GrumpyMel2GrumpyMel2 Catskills, NYPosts: 1,832Member
    Originally posted by Loke666

    Crud, those 2 were the last good of Bioware.

    I hope they after a year or so doing other stuff realize that they are good at making games and start something new (and this time dont selll to EA no matter what they pay).

    My hat is off, Bioware we knew is now offcially gone. 

    Lets remember them for the good games they made, like Baldurs gate I & II and NWN.

    Good luck both of you. And Greg, you cant go wrong with beer. :)

    They probably had to sign a "no compete" when they sold out to EA. So even if they wanted to do otherwise, they are probably out of comission for working on games for however long that lasts.

  • black_isleblack_isle IstanbulPosts: 238Member Uncommon
    Good riddance. They turned bioware into a craptastic game studio from a real rpg powerhouse. Then selling out to EA was the last nail in the coffin. After ToR, DA2 and ME3 there is no redemption.
  • gervaise1gervaise1 .Posts: 2,065Member Uncommon
    Whoa! And just read that Bioware Ireland has dropped the Bioware tag!
  • GrumpyMel2GrumpyMel2 Catskills, NYPosts: 1,832Member
    With EA's track record....can't really say they should be surprised about what happened. Expecting EA to not trash your brand when you sell to them is kinda like coating yourself with A-1 SteakSauce and jumping into a Tiger pit to cuddle with them.
  • LeoghanLeoghan Herndon, VAPosts: 607Member
    Originally posted by dotdotdash
    Originally posted by ishist
    Originally posted by finnmacool1
    Originally posted by Vantras

    I love how folks pretend that a founder who sells his/her company to a huge corporate entity is somehow innocent when that huge company butchers the original vision, guts the brand or exploits its strengths.  They call it "selling out" for a reason. These guys built a great company, saw an oppurtunity to reap an enormous harvest when they sold to EA-but they did so with their eyes wide open-they took the cash and sold the baby.  Acting as if their departure now is somehow an act of defiance at how the baby they knowingly sold is being raised is naive and absurd. 

    I dont blame them at all for selling but i also wont pretend that they arent 100% culpable in what BW has turned into.

    This.

    I'm guessing none of you are aware that these two didn't own Bioware. They didn't sell Bioware. They were probably trying to make the best of a losing situation and it took its toll.

    A bit of education: http://www.elevation.com/EP_port_item.asp?id=1

     

     

    Greg and Ray sold Bioware and Pandemic to Elevation Partners in return for lofty stakes in Elevation, as well as seats on the board of directors of Elevation. In addition to this, employees at Bioware also got stakes in Elevation.

    The deal CLEARLY outlined a "partnership of equals"; no single entity within the arrangement held any more authority than another. Bioware, Pandemic and Elevation were equals.

    You need to go and read the literature, my friend. When Bioware was sold to EA, Greg and Ray would have had to approve it :) They were complicit in the sale, not victims of it.

    On top of all of this they stayed on with Bio after the EA sale, they didn't stomp off in disgust after numerous customers/fans complained about a deterioration in quality. They didn't step in to make sure other games didn't continue to suffer. 

    We can't have it both ways. If these guys were game design geniuses in their youth then they must have been at the very least neglectful in their twilight. They stayed on, if not to right the ship then to make money. The fact that they didn't express their own displeasure with the path that Bioware is taking is a form of compliance all in and of itself. I can't blame them, bucking the trend any where along the line would have likely cost them a lot of money, but I won't hero worship them either for remining silent. 

  • Gabby-airGabby-air surrey, BCPosts: 3,440Member Uncommon
    And just yesterday I was getting excited with Dragon Age 3 news, hopefully Bioware will go back to its glory. 
  • KostKost Vancouver, BCPosts: 1,975Member
    Originally posted by garrett
    this sucks.

    Pretty much sums up my thoughts on the matter.

    What a bummer.

  • KyleranKyleran Tampa, FLPosts: 19,977Member Uncommon
    They didn't retire, they were shown the door.

    In my day MMORPG's were so hard we fought our way through dungeons in the snow, uphill both ways.
    "I don't have one life, I have many lives" - Grunty
    Still currently "subscribed" to EVE, and only EVE!!!
    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  • BanegrivmBanegrivm Camp Hill, PAPosts: 194Member Uncommon
    Bioware was spiraling the drain long before EA bought them. Honestly, with the road those two were on I honestly hope that they stay out of the gaming industry. They have some interesting ideas and notions on what they think makes a good game, but sadly none of those ideals or notions were "fun" to me by any stretch of the imagination. I'm glad that they are gone and quite honestly I hope that they stay that way.

    Banegrivm
    Leader of the 1st Fist of Light
    www.1stfistoflight.com

  • VorthanionVorthanion Laguna Vista, TXPosts: 2,117Member Uncommon
    I'm amazed at the number of gamers who can't or won't see the huge amount of burnout this industry puts on those who work in it.  Most people know that when you turn your fun hobby into a job, more often than not, it ruins everything.

    image
  • BeanpuieBeanpuie Norfolk, VAPosts: 812Member Uncommon

    Sigh......

     

    *edit*

     

    I shouldnt even have any emotions in this. just that i played many bioware games all the way to Neverwinter Nights.

    Sure the majority didnt like the EA take over that occured, but some , including myself gave it a chance. 

    I ignored the faults, shortcomings and controversy , but when the Turd literally hit the fan, all those rooting for  the Bio/EA  thing to work, all we could do and sit their and watch.

    EA had their chance.

    So, theres nothing else to say,  Officially mark this up as another long list of Dead husks of companies dangling in EA's closet,  turn around and keep on walking.

    But I cant lie to say that this is a sad day.

  • BenthonBenthon Cedar Rapids, IAPosts: 2,069Member
    Definitely sucks to see EA kill yet another company.

    He who keeps his cool best wins.

  • AsamofAsamof La Canada, CAPosts: 738Member Uncommon

    i'm not too sad since there's wasteland and project eternity in development, it's not like real RPGs aren't being made anymore

    we can still laugh at bioware's future DA2's and TOR's too

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