Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
[Preview] MechWarrior Online: The Legend Returns
SBFord
Former Associate EditorMember LegendaryPosts: 33,129
During PAX Prime 2012, we had the opportunity to sit down for some quality hands on time with Piranha Games' MechWarrior Online. See what we discovered about a game that has MechWarrior fans all excited about. Keep reading and then leave your thoughts in the comments.
During PAX Prime, we had the opportunity for a bit of hands on time with MechWarrior Online with our own Bill Murphy at the controls. We logged into the Volcano Top map, a tree lined mountaintop reminiscent of Mount St. Helens in Oregon. The landscape was littered with fallen trees and rocks as well as new growth that gave smaller, more mobile mechs a place to hide out. It didn’t take long for our n00b at the controls to be taken down which was actually an OK thing since we learned that players dying on a map can either spectate the match until it’s complete or they can hit escape to quit the game and move on to the next match.
Read more of Suzie Ford's MechWarrior Online: The Legend Returns.
)
Comments
More mechs and further customizations can be purchased through the use of C-Bills, the game’s currency. Interestingly, C-Bills can be earned through game play or can be purchased with real-world dollars.
Players can then use earned currency to purchase buffs for mechs. A nice touch that Piranha has added is that buffs purchased by players are account wide and can be used on any mech.
This right here is the big problem. (And, as usual, the MMORPG.com author skips right over it.)
This is pure, unadulterated Pay to Win. In a PvP game.
And the company is not even trying to hide it.
Want upgraded mechs?Full Repairs? Want superior mechs? Buffs? Pay more real world cash. Or Suffer.
I will not play any PvP game that is so unabashedly P2W, and a lot of others won't either.
And I notice that point is mentioned no where in the article.
You seem to have done the same.
The amount of C-bills earned through game play is actually quite considerable. However, if you would prefer not to wait until you have earned a sufficient amount, you can buy your way into a really nice mech, then have it destroyed.
Playing the game for the currency is really the best option in this game, trust me. It will provide enough for repairs and new mechs with a little patience. Oh and skill, don't forget skill, it kind of counts in this title.
More mechs and further customizations can be purchased through the use of C-Bills, the game’s currency. Interestingly, C-Bills can be earned through game play or can be purchased with real-world dollars.
Players can then use earned currency to purchase buffs for mechs. A nice touch that Piranha has added is that buffs purchased by players are account wide and can be used on any mech.
No, I didn't forget that, but maybe in your hurry to flame, you missed it.
The truth is, you cannot say how fast currency will or will not be earned at launch, as adjustments like that are typically made right up until launch, and none of that changes the fact that you can BUY as much currency as you want.
And there is every incentive for the company running a so-called "F2P" game to make players use the cash shop as much as possible, or suffer.
Nor does that change the fact that buffs, new mechs, weapons upgrades, full repairs, and all the rest ARE a significant advantage in gameplay, that you can straight-up buy.
And that is the heart of it: you can buy significant advantages with real cash, in this PvP-centric game (were this a PvE centered game, no one would care much), which is a huge turn off for me, and many others.
It's pretty much like world of tanks. You can do just fine without every spending a dollar. But for example, you just won't be able to by more than 4 mechs (with ingame currency if you so choose or "real" world money if you have it) because bay slots cost "real" world money. Just like World of tanks.
So it's not really "pay to win" but "pay for convinience" and "pay for cool things"
Oh, I'm in no hurry to flame, and if you took it as such, well, I'm not sure what to say to that.
I am mearly trying to point out that the game is not as you have mentioned in your angst. It is a really fun game and the devs seem to be on top of things. They are in the process of fine tuning everything in regards to repairs, c-bill expenditures and gain and are making sure it does not become a pay-to-win cash shop.
This is the game that diehard Mechwarrior and Battletech fans have been waiting for, for a long, long time. It will be even better when they finally add the Inner Sphere map with border skirmishes on the rim, that is where the true MMO feel comes in on this title.
game is great for jumping in and having a few fast matches... just like BF3 or CS or other similar games.. you wont want to spend days and days just playing it..
Still its a great game and well worth playing
Call of Duty, Halo and just about every shooter game has been doing that for years. I know players who still run as much of that as they can get, after many years. Hell, I keep my PS3 loaded with CoD just for when I want a quick fix every once in awhile.
Also, instead of just being able to run 15 minutes matches, these ones will actually mean something, as you will be fighting for control over planets and factories.
The game is not pay2win... It is a factual error.
This have been a good conversation
World of Tanks IS definately Pay 2 Win. You may not NEED to pay in order to Win...but paying real world cash gives you a mechanical advantage in gameplay over a player that has put a similar ammount of effort/time into the game. That IS the very definition of Pay 2 Win.
It's like being able to have an extra strike in an at bat in baseball whenever you want to do so by paying cash. It's still possible for the other team to beat you even when you do that, but you have an advantage over them. It runs contrary to the very definition of what competition and games are SUPPOSED to be about.
People can try to SPIN it to sound like something else...but that's what it is.
I have nothing against these F2P game companies wanting to make money.....and thier games can sometimes even be fun....but if they really want gamers to respect what they are doing as a GAME, then they need to find different ways to monetize thier products OTHER then selling direct mechanical advantages. Pay for time beyond a certain number of matches, pay for access to different maps or nationalties(teams), pay for different game modes, pay for cosmetic customizations, pay for access to beta servers, pay for listing on public scoreboards/leaderboards. These are all reasonable ways to monetize a game....but paying for something that provides a direct advantage in gameplay against other players (e.g. "gold ammo, skill increases, crew experience increases, better vehicles, etc). Those go directly against the spirit of what these sorts of games are about it. It doesn't matter if it's "only a little bit", it's still Pay2Win.... that's like saying you are only "a little bit" no longer a virgin..... and it doesn't matter if a player can spend alot of hours grinding in game to earn credits for that stuff.... the fact that you can just plunk down your credit card and get it whenever you want in whaterver quantity you want is an advantage.
QFT.
This is the core of it, and even proponents of this and similar games can not say it isn't so.
By paying real money, you CAN get significant advantages over people that do not. Period.
That happened in World of Tanks and is happening here.
Buffs, advanced mechs, better weapons, full repairs, the works, all can be bought with C-bills, which are also for sale for real money.
You can say that you can get many of the same rewards just by grinding in the game, and that is true. But it is also true that you can slap down that CC and get them instantly.
And that is a big problem for some of us in an PvP heavy game: paying cash for player advantages.
You can try to argue that the advantages are not gamebreaking, but even the boosters of this game can not argue they are not there and not for sale for real money.
Unlike WoT and other games that do have some P2W, the weapons you can buy are limited by Battletech lore. There are no tiers of mechs or tiers of weapons. "More powerful" weapons effectiveness is mitigated by higher heat and lower rates of fire. Reasonable balance is provided by sticking fairly closely to tabletop rules and prior mechwarrior games.
A medium laser is medium laser and does 5 armor points of damage regardless of which mech you put it in. You do not have problems like WoT where your starter gun on a tank may bounce and not do any damage at all and you need to upgrade to be competitive at your tier.
If you can buy yourself an advantage that non-paying players cannot obtain for themselves ingame, *that* is P2W. If you can buy yourself something which non-paying players have to grind X amount of hours to obtain that is Pay-for-convenience, with the caveat that X isn't some nigh on unobtainable figure that the only realistic way of getting that something is by paying.
Ammo which is unique to paying customers and is considerably better than the regular counterpart is P2W. Mechs which are available to someone paying or playing enough to afford one is Pay-for-convenience.
@Stizzled,
You are entitled to your opinion. However as far as I'm concerned it goes directly against the spirit of what games and competition SHOULD be about. No purchases of direct advantages in play, no matter how big or how small.
In terms of monetization. If I like bowling, I have no problem with paying the owner of the bowling ally for the time I spend using one of his lanes. I have a huge problem with him allowing me to buy an extra ball per frame to use against my opponent. In my book that's not called bowling or sport or gaming...it's called SHOPPING.
Half the problem is the developers...but the other half is folks that expect to get all these services for free...even worse, those who think it's an acceptable form of competition to pay for direct advantage over thier compeition.
I'm not going to speak for MWO, as in all fairness I have no direct knowledge of it....but I do have direct knowledge of WoT...and it most definately is Pay 2 Win.
So on day one of Live, someone that logs on and blows $200 on buying better classes of mechs and weapons, and buffs, is not going to kick the ass of every player that doesn't, at anything approaching the same skill level?
You know that is going to happen, and saying otherwise does not make it true.
Like many others, I do not find this to be a good thing for a PvP-centric game.
The way it is described in the article, this is not pay to win. This sounds like the typical setup for free-to-play games: make it so 100% free gets a bit too tedious to keep up, encouraging players to contribute a few bucks so they can focus less on money grinding and more on content.
Pay to win, as I am sure has been explained a few hundred times on this site, means that certain items, buffs, skills, etc. are only gotten through cash shops or through an unreasonably high cost of in-game currency.
And yet, if people buy their way to advanced mechs by way of the cashshop, on the first day, they can start advancing their skills with the mech they will end up using, right away.
And THAT is a worthwhile advantage, as well as say Ultra auto-cannons vs normal ones, and the eventuality of Clan weapons, which are, in fact better. Pay the money, get the better stuff first (which is better than the base mechs/weapons) and be able to build you edge faster.
That is possible with how they have MWO laid out and how the cash shop will work. Some people will pay the money to dominate off the bat, and that is the P2W Mel is talking about.
And again, it is only because this is PvP centric that it is a problem.
This Pay2Win accusation is simply unfounded so far.
The MWO Devs have publically stated several times that they sell convenience and fluff in their shop and not hand out wins for cash.
As a founder i do not get better mechs - i have a 25% permanent C-Bill bonus on my founder mech which neither makes me shot better nor gives me more armor so i do not win more, i only make 25% more C-Bills so i need less matches to acumulate money for another Mech or Weapon.
And another Mech or Weapon does NOT mean its a better Mech/Weapon that outclasses the old ones: I may get a weapon with more range but less damage as trade off and Lights can still kill Assaults if piloted good - this is where Role-Warfare comes into play.
MWO is not an Armsrace and Pilot Skill goes beyond the usual twitch style gameplay.
Pilots need to tinker with their mechs, have an eye on their finances, must be able to manage their mechs heat, ammo and armor in midst of combat, have to show situational awareness and teamplay, must fit their role als Scout, Support, Sniper, Flanker, Brawler etc.
The Devs have talked about all of this in their forums and the several articles about MWO in the press and the internet.
"Torquemada... do not implore him for compassion. Torquemada... do not beg him for forgiveness. Torquemada... do not ask him for mercy. Let's face it, you can't Torquemada anything!"
MWO Music Video - What does the Mech say: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FF6HYNqCDLI
Johnny Cash - The Man Comes Around: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0x2iwK0BKM
This, the mechs all have upsides and downsides. Each type of weapon has upsides and downsides. There is currently nothing in the game that can't be achieved simply by playing the game. MWO is how f2p should be done, the game will have a large player base due to being free and is like others have said a convience thing not pay to win.
Wot's is a different animal. It is pay for convience to a point, if you want to play clan wars you are goin to have to buy gold to fire gold rounds or find a clan that will give you some to begin with if they have some stockpiled. In pug games I don't really notice anyone fire gold rounds other than the odd guy who forgot to change out his ammo after clan wars(I've done this myself once).
The fact that the premium stuff isn't used in pug games for the most part, I'd say Wot's is mostly pay for convience but thats not to say if a moron with to much money couldn't tip the scales toward pay to win if they spent enough. This coming from someont that has a few tier 10's and various other tanks along with 8 months of play time.
It is pay-2-get-varies, not so much pay-2-win.
Because if you played Mechwarrior series you will know that knowledge of equipment, heat management and use of terrain trumps everything else.
You can kill a heavies easily if you deck out your light mech with 2 AC10s and know how to use it properly (leg humpers are hell of difficult to deal with for heavies and assaulters).