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Dungeons - The Lack of the Trinity

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  • Master10KMaster10K LondonPosts: 3,065Member
    Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter
    Originally posted by adam_nox
    Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter

    What there is, are minor effects brought by all the players that will stack and be higher than just the plain sum of the individual diffuse effects

    People keep repeating this crap like it's a political talking point.  It's not always possible to take advantage of any such thing, and even if you can, it still doesn't work, and by work, make the combat experience enjoyable.  It's like expecting 3 people to ritual-cast a heal spell every time the tank takes damage, it's silly.

    2 mesmers can easily coordinate and chain cast a bubble spell, an ele can warn the warrior he will cast a combo field so the warrior is ready to cast a banner, 2 players with blocks can coordinate with each other blocking hits from a boss, a team can coordiante CCs to keep the boss at 0 defiant charges so next CC actually works, etc.

    What about classes that have traits that give boosts based on the number of boons? Myself as a warrior can generaly keep 3 up on myself, but with other dudes around I can easily have 5 or 6.

    The difference is that in this system you require several players to contribute for a role while in the holy trinity a healer can do its job by itself and a tank can do its job by itself.

    You have active teamwork opposed to passive teamwork.

    This kind of teamwork actually became truly aparrant to me yesterday, when I ran the level 70+ dungeon CoF, with a group of 4 Rangers and myself (an Elementalist). During that run I accidentally learnt a powerful combo. A Ranger used their Healing Spring skill and I used my Scepter fire skills that incidentally produced 4 burst of AOE heals. After realising how potent the heals were, I would constantly keep an eye out for those combo fields to use my blast finishers on them. It saved our asses quite a few times as well.

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  • SteeJanzSteeJanz Gladstone, MOPosts: 330Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Master10K
    Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter
    Originally posted by adam_nox
    Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter

    What there is, are minor effects brought by all the players that will stack and be higher than just the plain sum of the individual diffuse effects

    People keep repeating this crap like it's a political talking point.  It's not always possible to take advantage of any such thing, and even if you can, it still doesn't work, and by work, make the combat experience enjoyable.  It's like expecting 3 people to ritual-cast a heal spell every time the tank takes damage, it's silly.

    2 mesmers can easily coordinate and chain cast a bubble spell, an ele can warn the warrior he will cast a combo field so the warrior is ready to cast a banner, 2 players with blocks can coordinate with each other blocking hits from a boss, a team can coordiante CCs to keep the boss at 0 defiant charges so next CC actually works, etc.

    What about classes that have traits that give boosts based on the number of boons? Myself as a warrior can generaly keep 3 up on myself, but with other dudes around I can easily have 5 or 6.

    The difference is that in this system you require several players to contribute for a role while in the holy trinity a healer can do its job by itself and a tank can do its job by itself.

    You have active teamwork opposed to passive teamwork.

    This kind of teamwork actually became truly aparrant to me yesterday, when I ran the level 70+ dungeon CoF, with a group of 4 Rangers and myself (an Elementalist). During that run I accidentally learnt a powerful combo. A Ranger used their Healing Spring skill and I used my Scepter fire skills that incidentally produced 4 burst of AOE heals. After realising how potent the heals were, I would constantly keep an eye out for those combo fields to use my blast finishers on them. It saved our asses quite a few times as well.

    I also noticed a combo when I throw down my #5 Super Elixir skill on my Engineer's Elixir gun.  When standing in it an attack removes a condition.  I think it works for other healing circles as well.  It's interesting.  The coordination between players is so important.  Once everyone figures out all the different benefits to working together using combos and group related skills then they will really start to appreciate how it all works. 

  • Dreamo84Dreamo84 Niagara Falls, NYPosts: 3,437Member Uncommon
    Thing is, there shouldn't be a squishy guy. Most people don't realize that you can't just stack power and be a glass cannon. Each player is responsible for their own survivability to an extent. Yes scholar classes have less armor but toughness and vitality go a long way to remedy that. Eventually people will start to realize being a ranger doesn't mean dps class or being elementalist means standing back and not getting hit.

    image
  • MaelkorMaelkor Friendswood, TXPosts: 465Member Uncommon

    There is a chart on one of the wikis which lays out all of the combos. There are some combos which do AE buffs and others single target buffs and debuffs. Some heal, some do retaliation etc.

     

    And yes group play is vital in this game to completing a dungeon experience without having to zerg it. I did the lvl 30 dungeon story mode twice. The first time we got stuck on 3 rangers who totally kicked our groups but and no matter what we did we couuldnt get past them. Our group wasnt working very well.

     

    The second group we went right through that spot with little problem - I think one player was downed. The only trouble we had in the dungeon was the twin boss area. We all took about 5+ deaths to finish that fight. We did hit a few other snags in tricky areas of the dungeon that we didnt know - traps and the like and it took us a while to get used to each other and fight better. In the end we did finish the dungeon. As a mesmer many times I used a variety of clones to keep aggro off me from a difficult boss and was able to stay alive while the rest of the team had died somewhere along the way. Doing that I could stay afloat long enough for my team to get back and thus not lose progress by having the mob/mobs heal back to full again.

     

    The mechanics are simply different and its going to take people a while to get used to them.

  • crazynannycrazynanny PopowoPosts: 173Member

    There is no trinty in GW2, but that doesn't mean that there are no coordiantion and tasks to do. Difference and complexity(reffered as chaos, dying, zerg fest) is that everyone needs to do everything, instead just one role.

    1. Support your team defensively - heals, protection, condition curing those are major deals. Good coordination makes nigh impossible fights suddenly controlable. Previously 1-2 person job. Now everyone needs to pull their weight, looking at buffs and healthabrs to buff and cure conditions aka cooperation.

    2. Support your team offensively - blind, cripple, weakness again turns big scary monster that 2 shot people into slowpoke that can't hit anything. In trinity 1-2 debuffers were enough. Again everyone needs to pay attention to debuffs and chain them aka cooperation.

    3. Pull mobs away, CC them, try to get their aggro, use protective bubbles to help dying member and get them up. It's not 1-2 person job anymore. Too many dead people => to few buffs, debuffs and "tanks" => you die faster. Again cooperation.

    4. Keep eye on mobs/boss actions - dodge, position yourself or use protective bubbles. While this doesn't require much of cooperation, it was mostly tank job in trinity model(+some easy scripted events). Now it's everyones job. Not doing so result in often downed/dead state which makes you dead weight for team.

    Anyways if I can say anything about dungeons - they are way too forgiving currently, often alowing die zerg to progress without learning a thing(cept that dungeons suck cus you die and have repair bill). The good example is a golem fight in CM story(lvl 30 dungeon). Only after duo-ing it I reckoginzed it attacks and learned how to avoid them. With 5 people we zerged it. And it has nice anti range attacks(fires a deadly rockets) as well as nasty flamethrower that makes it impossible to stay 100% melee.

  • ChrisReitzChrisReitz Newport, KYPosts: 115Member
    QQ cry me a river... The guy here thinks that is bad that any class can basically do a dungeon... The guy is crying cause he wants to wait for hours for a specific class to come to help them... God Im glad I dont have to waits hours on in for a certain class.
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