My Main Issues With GW2

Wootloops · September 2012

Originally posted by Praetalus
I'm currently playing guils wars 2 and having a really god time. I like wow too though, always have. The reason I'm not playing wow right now is due to the fact that they turned it into a lobby mmo. No one is out in the world anymore...ever. People sit in the cities and que for dungeons. I had a buddy return a few months ago and play wow with me, and he quit cause from level 35-50, he only saw other players when in a dungeon. The world is dead. Perhaps they can fix it, but until they do, I'm quite happy in gw2, where I actually see other players everywhere. Queuing for dungeons over and over just won't do it for me now.

I agree about WoW, but GW2 will turn out that way too, because they have no true repeatable content in the world. Only Orr will have people in it. The world needs to be a sandbox where there are PvP objectives and keeps and games and places for people to build stuff etc., and the themepark things which you have to queue for should be in all different locations that you have to travel to (Not port to like in GW2 or fly to like in WoW) in order to queue.

faxnadu · September 2012

-Not enough skills overall (In WoW I have about 35-40 skill keybinds and I use each and every one of them).

yeah right. simple for you go back playing the game you like , no need to rant about stuff like this here.

Wootloops · September 2012

Originally posted by m0lly
-Not enough skills overall (In WoW I have about 35-40 skill keybinds and I use each and every one of them).

yeah right. simple for you go back playing the game you like , no need to rant about stuff like this here.

Do not fear my truth. One may only live upon lies for so long. Embrace it my child.

Zylaxx · September 2012

Originally posted by Wootloops
These are my main issues with Guild Wars 2, and why WoW is going to remain my main game:

When compared to WoW:

1. Less ability to become the best and show it off.

-sPvP isn’t competitively ranked.

-One sPvP game mode (Huge issue).

-sPvP gear can’t be worn in the real world and real world gear can’t be worn in sPvPland.

-sPvP colors my armor (Minor).

-Enemies don’t see my character name.

-No gear/build/achievement inspection or achievement linking.

2. Combat is boring and takes little skill (Yes, WoW’s combat does take more skill; much more in fact. And I’ve gotten Gladiator so I have experience):

-Attacking consists of mostly auto-attacking (Been the same on Guardian, Mesmer, and Elementalist in both PvP and PvE), and this is due to a mix of the following:

-Not enough attack skills.

-Not enough attack skills with a small enough CD.

-Not enough attack skills with enough superiority over auto-attack to be worth the risk of using.

-Not enough skills overall (In WoW I have about 35-40 skill keybinds and I use each and every one of them).

In general:

1. Not enough sandbox elements.

2. PvE is separate from PvP.

-I’m mostly a PvP player so this is why this is a big issue for me. I want my PvE to be intertwined with my PvP. I want to go all around the world and see the landscapes and fight dragons, all while doing mainly PvP activities. Instead I’m stuck in the hideous mists (They really could have designed that place aesthetically better and more diverse). But to their credit they do add some PvE elements into WvW and sPvP, but they’re rather boring.

3. Not enough compelling “alternative to normal combat” activities.

-To their credit, they tried with their “activities”, but they’re too basic and simple. WoW’s new pokemon activity is an example of a good alternative activity.

Parting thought:

-I think the key to the perfect MMO (At least for me) is having a robust sandbox game with a huge multitude of themepark-esque competitive/ranked PvP activities.

Speaking as a four-time Gladiator from World of Warcraft, I think people need to realize that the number of abilities you are using in an MMO has very little to do with the amount of skill required.

For example, on my Affliction Warlock I would use Corruption, Curse of Agony, Immolate, Siphon Life and Unstable Affliction for my DoTs - five abilities that are practically used in the exact same way with little thought process behind them. The skills were so simple in design that it was almost impossible to use them in a skillful way or in a manner more "pro" than anyone else.

Drain Life, Health Funnel, Mana Drain, Soul Drain... all channeled abilities with an "over time" effect. Incinerate, Searing Pain, Shadow Bolt... all nearly identical abilities with singular uses. Never would anyone ever think, "Wow, look at the way that Warlock used Corruption/Drain Life/Shadow Bolt! He is so good!"

Then we come to Guild Wars 2. Let's take my Mesmer's Phase Retreat ability - which teleports me away from my target and summons a clone - as an example. I can turn and use the teleport offensively for chasing, use the teleport defensively to avoid danger, use the clone to quickly Shatter for a Daze or Distortion, use the clone to max out my Illusions for a full Mind Wrack spike, use the teleport to disjoint an incoming projectile, use the clone on a far away downed player to keep them in combat, use it help stack more conditions on my target, use it in a Combo Field for Chaos Armor/Fire Shield, etc., use the clone on a Thief to serve as a seeker (clones instantly re-target enemies that pop out of stealth), or even use the clone as a kamakaze to cripple nearby enemies (traited).

So, really, how does the number of abilities you use have anything to do with an increased skill ceiling? Is it because, "OMG, so many keybinds?" At most, keybinds are what separate horrible players from the medicore... anything beyond that is irrelevant because keybinding becomes standard.

I could easily go back to a game like WoW and run some cookie-cutter 3v3 makeup to rush to Gladiator once again because I know that the game's pinnacle of teamwork, theorycrafting, and strategy is, "Target X, crowd control Y and line of sight Z."

I could never go anywhere near such a level in Guild Wars and will certainly not in Guild Wars 2. Why? Because the game revolves around playing ability and there are people who are much better at video games than me.

Zylaxx · September 2012

Originally posted by Wootloops
These are my main issues with Guild Wars 2, and why WoW is going to remain my main game:

When compared to WoW:

1. Less ability to become the best and show it off.

-sPvP isn’t competitively ranked.

-One sPvP game mode (Huge issue).

-sPvP gear can’t be worn in the real world and real world gear can’t be worn in sPvPland.

-sPvP colors my armor (Minor).

-Enemies don’t see my character name.

-No gear/build/achievement inspection or achievement linking.

2. Combat is boring and takes little skill (Yes, WoW’s combat does take more skill; much more in fact. And I’ve gotten Gladiator so I have experience):

-Attacking consists of mostly auto-attacking (Been the same on Guardian, Mesmer, and Elementalist in both PvP and PvE), and this is due to a mix of the following:

-Not enough attack skills.

-Not enough attack skills with a small enough CD.

-Not enough attack skills with enough superiority over auto-attack to be worth the risk of using.

-Not enough skills overall (In WoW I have about 35-40 skill keybinds and I use each and every one of them).

In general:

1. Not enough sandbox elements.

2. PvE is separate from PvP.

-I’m mostly a PvP player so this is why this is a big issue for me. I want my PvE to be intertwined with my PvP. I want to go all around the world and see the landscapes and fight dragons, all while doing mainly PvP activities. Instead I’m stuck in the hideous mists (They really could have designed that place aesthetically better and more diverse). But to their credit they do add some PvE elements into WvW and sPvP, but they’re rather boring.

3. Not enough compelling “alternative to normal combat” activities.

-To their credit, they tried with their “activities”, but they’re too basic and simple. WoW’s new pokemon activity is an example of a good alternative activity.

Parting thought:

-I think the key to the perfect MMO (At least for me) is having a robust sandbox game with a huge multitude of themepark-esque competitive/ranked PvP activities.

All I can say is LOL.

You are entitled to your own opinion but not your own fact. However you sir are still enamored with the WoW model of MMO development so it wouldnt surprise me if Jesus himself made a MMO differing from WoW you still would find faults with it.

I guess I see why game companies still continue to make failed WoW clone after WoW clone, because guys like the OP still think they are the best model of MMO gameplay. truely makes me sad for the future of the genre. Everyonce in a while a studio breaks the mold and trys to thinkoutside the box and they get shunned for it.

cybersrs · September 2012

Originally posted by Dalano
Originally posted by Wootloops
Originally posted by tkoreaper
Please, List all your keybinds in WoW.

So you played 3 of the moot faceroll classes for pvp, good for you. Try an Engineer.

From Keybinds

I counted 35 ability keybinds (36 if you count mount), and I should really keybind my weapon swaps, which would add 2 more.

Stock UI hotbars with only a handful of macros? DK or not, most serious WoW pvpers have way more complicated setups than this.

Which is one of the things I find refreshing about GW2 spvp; build choices are real rather than a mirage. The limitation of hotkeys requires you to think and plan much more since you can't bind every tool to your nostromo.

Probably because you cannot use add-ons in tournaments.

cybersrs · September 2012

Originally posted by JimmyYO
Originally posted by itgrowls
Originally posted by Wootloops
These are my main issues with Guild Wars 2, and why WoW is going to remain my main game:

When compared to WoW:

1. Less ability to become the best and show it off.

Meh.

2. Combat is boring and takes little skill (Yes, WoW’s combat does take more skill; much more in fact. And I’ve gotten Gladiator so I have experience):

smh. /facedesk sorry but you don't use every single WoW ability while fighting, no one does. There are pleanty of obsolete or imbalanced skills in WoW and just because they fixed a tiny few to bring people back to the game (and to try to spike their revenue) doesn't mean you use every skill. That's nonsense. WoW combat, movement, skills are all boring because you don't have to think, you setup your macros and press the same 2 buttons and occasionally use some defense button if you have one. Bubblehearth anyone?

In general:

1. Not enough sandbox elements.

2. PvE is separate from PvP.

-I’m mostly a PvP player so this is why this is a big issue for me. I want my PvE to be intertwined with my PvP. I want to go all around the world and see the landscapes and fight dragons, all while doing mainly PvP activities. Instead I’m stuck in the hideous mists (They really could have designed that place aesthetically better and more diverse). But to their credit they do add some PvE elements into WvW and sPvP, but they’re rather boring.

So sitting around waiting to pounce on someone who comes along who accidently setup their account on a pvp server and just came out of the beginner zone is more fun, because really that's the only difference between the two, other then wvwvw.

3. Not enough compelling “alternative to normal combat” activities.

-To their credit, they tried with their “activities”, but they’re too basic and simple. WoW’s new pokemon activity is an example of a good alternative activity.

I'm sorry WHA? smh, how in the world is a pokemon style minigame better then the activities in .....weird.

Parting thought:

-I think the key to the perfect MMO (At least for me) is having a robust sandbox game with a huge multitude of themepark-esque competitive/ranked PvP activities.

So you come down on a game that's closer to being sandbox then anything Blizzard has ever touched to date but claim that WoW is more of a sandbox then the game that's actually more of a sandbox then WoW?

Anyone else see the holes here?

Obviously didn't play WoW to gladiator level. Please don't respond to things you don't have the slightest clue about. No high end PvP'er just hits a couple buttons for starters.

An ideia for you guys...
Would be easier see the armory link, so people can check achievement and current rating.

Wootloops · September 2012

Originally posted by Zylaxx
Speaking as a four-time Gladiator from World of Warcraft, I think people need to realize that the number of abilities you are using in an MMO has very little to do with the amount of skill required.

For example, on my Affliction Warlock I would use Corruption, Curse of Agony, Immolate, Siphon Life and Unstable Affliction for my DoTs - five abilities that are practically used in the exact same way with little thought process behind them. The skills were so simple in design that it was almost impossible to use them in a skillful way or in a manner more "pro" than anyone else.

Drain Life, Health Funnel, Mana Drain, Soul Drain... all channeled abilities with an "over time" effect. Incinerate, Searing Pain, Shadow Bolt... all nearly identical abilities with singular uses. Never would anyone ever think, "Wow, look at the way that Warlock used Corruption/Drain Life/Shadow Bolt! He is so good!"

Then we come to Guild Wars 2. Let's take my Mesmer's Phase Retreat ability - which teleports me away from my target and summons a clone - as an example. I can turn and use the teleport offensively for chasing, use the teleport defensively to avoid danger, use the clone to quickly Shatter for a Daze or Distortion, use the clone to max out my Illusions for a full Mind Wrack spike, use the teleport to disjoint an incoming projectile, use the clone on a far away downed player to keep them in combat, use it help stack more conditions on my target, use it in a Combo Field for Chaos Armor/Fire Shield, etc., use the clone on a Thief to serve as a seeker (clones instantly re-target enemies that pop out of stealth), or even use the clone as a kamakaze to cripple nearby enemies (traited).

So, really, how does the number of abilities you use have anything to do with an increased skill ceiling? Is it because, "OMG, so many keybinds?" At most, keybinds are what separate horrible players from the medicore... anything beyond that is irrelevant because keybinding becomes standard.

I could easily go back to a game like WoW and run some cookie-cutter 3v3 makeup to rush to Gladiator once again because I know that the game's pinnacle of teamwork, theorycrafting, and strategy is, "Target X, crowd control Y and line of sight Z."

I could never go anywhere near such a level in Guild Wars and will certainly not in Guild Wars 2. Why? Because the game revolves around playing ability and there are people who are much better at video games than me.

All those things you talked about with your mesmer may basically be said of your warlock's abilities, you just chose not to state it that way. And your warlock has more abilities and thusly more things like that to be said, which thusly makes it take more skill. You musn't be so biased my child.

Wootloops · September 2012

Originally posted by Zylaxx
All I can say is LOL.

You are entitled to your own opinion but not your own fact. However you sir are still enamored with the WoW model of MMO development so it wouldnt surprise me if Jesus himself made a MMO differing from WoW you still would find faults with it.

I guess I see why game companies still continue to make failed WoW clone after WoW clone, because guys like the OP still think they are the best model of MMO gameplay. truely makes me sad for the future of the genre. Everyonce in a while a studio breaks the mold and trys to thinkoutside the box and they get shunned for it.

I direct you to my genius hamburger analogy on page 9.

cybersrs · September 2012

Originally posted by Wootloops
Originally posted by Zylaxx
This is why I know your not telling the truth.

I played a gladiator DK as well and I only needed 15 keybinds TOPS. Same with Warriors. At least next time come make up a much harder and more skillful class like a Lock or a Hunter, now those were classes with lots of keybinds required.

Exhibit B:

From Keybinds

Take note of the "HI ZYLAXX" in the chat bar.

I did not know that DK could get "Hand of A'dal" title... I thought it could only be achieved before DK expansion... is it right?

Indrome · September 2012

So you can't soloplay in group-PvP and still win... big woop. One of GW2's strong points in my opinion.

People that STILL complain about auto-attack-combat should seriously consider starting to play as a team and remember that they can not only dish out damage (like f.e. WoW's DPS classes) but also buff allies and debuff enemies. It's just not all about wo can fling around the highest number in this game.

Thane · September 2012

@OP: i disagree on nearly EVERY point. and i wont argue about it since i actually dont even see where you come from with your point of view. most likely azeroth ^^

Wootloops · September 2012

Originally posted by cybersrs
Originally posted by Wootloops
Originally posted by Zylaxx
This is why I know your not telling the truth.

I played a gladiator DK as well and I only needed 15 keybinds TOPS. Same with Warriors. At least next time come make up a much harder and more skillful class like a Lock or a Hunter, now those were classes with lots of keybinds required.

Exhibit B:

From Keybinds

Take note of the "HI ZYLAXX" in the chat bar.

I did not know that DK could get "Hand of A'dal" title... I thought it could only be achieved before DK expansion... is it right?

Since the new patch a lot of the achievements are cross-character.

Wootloops · September 2012

Originally posted by Indrome
So you can't soloplay in group-PvP and still win... big woop. One of GW2's strong points in my opinion.

People that STILL complain about auto-attack-combat should seriously consider starting to play as a team and remember that they can not only dish out damage (like f.e. WoW's DPS classes) but also buff allies and debuff enemies. It's just not all about wo can fling around the highest number in this game.

Having one nice element doesn't mean the lacking one isn't still rotten. Meditate on that my child.

Wootloops · September 2012

Originally posted by Thane
@OP: i disagree on nearly EVERY point. and i wont argue about it since i actually dont even see where you come from with your point of view. most likely azeroth ^^

My point of view comes from glorious truth, and that is all.

TsaboHavoc · September 2012

this guy is trolling hard on you guys. wow is a completely dumbed down game with heavy emphasis on gear and macros. and no, killing lowbies and old womans in wow using 3 buttons is hardly skill.

since he cant win in gw2 he came to vent his frustration on this forum on the same game players that owned him in PvP. Accept reality dude without gear and macros you cant win, sry.

Wootloops · September 2012

Originally posted by TsaboHavoc
this guy is trolling hard on you guys. wow is a completely dumbed down game with heavy emphasis on gear and macros. and no, killing lowbies and old womans in wow using 3 buttons is hardly skill.

since he cant win in gw2 he came to vent his frustration on this forum on the same game players that owned him in PvP. Accept reality dude without gear and macros you cant win, sry.

I sense great anger in you my child. And as Yoda taught us, we all know what that leads to.

TsaboHavoc · September 2012

lol you are almost amusing.

pedrostrik · September 2012

Originally posted by Rokurgepta
Originally posted by SteeJanz
(....)
Total skills = 45

It looks like I have more than you. Weird.

All you need is autoattack, OP said so.

Ye the OP its a typical troll cause autoatack in GW2 its only for people who haves no clue about this game, i think he's used to faceroll people in WoW with his gear so in fact he only needs 1 key on WoW. I'd love to encounter this OP noob in sPvP or even in WvWvW to get a easy kill.

Wootloops · September 2012

Originally posted by pedrostrik
Ye the OP its a typical troll cause autoatack in GW2 its only for people who haves no clue about this game, i think he's used to faceroll people in WoW with his gear so in fact he only needs 1 key on WoW. I'd love to encounter this OP noob in sPvP or even in WvWvW to get a easy kill.

If only you could see my name in PvP so you would know it's me. BA DUM CHISH! Damn I'm good.

Indrome · September 2012

Originally posted by Wootloops
Originally posted by Indrome
So you can't soloplay in group-PvP and still win... big woop. One of GW2's strong points in my opinion.

People that STILL complain about auto-attack-combat should seriously consider starting to play as a team and remember that they can not only dish out damage (like f.e. WoW's DPS classes) but also buff allies and debuff enemies. It's just not all about wo can fling around the highest number in this game.

Having one nice element doesn't mean the lacking one isn't still rotten. Meditate on that my child.

Yeah, condescension is ALWAYS the better argument and frees anyone from actually stating their opinion in a clear and comprehensible way.

Well... to my eyes you're obviously not even trying to communicate anymore and instead only brushing off any opinion that clashes with yours. You're not having fun in the game and have stated why. Some of those reasons are well thought out, others are just plain shallow. If you can't accept that some people are trying to broaden your horizons by disagreeing with you, you shouldn't have posted your opinion in the first place.

Phry · September 2012

Originally posted by Wootloops
Originally posted by pedrostrik
Ye the OP its a typical troll cause autoatack in GW2 its only for people who haves no clue about this game, i think he's used to faceroll people in WoW with his gear so in fact he only needs 1 key on WoW. I'd love to encounter this OP noob in sPvP or even in WvWvW to get a easy kill.

If only you could see my name in PvP so you would know it's me. BA DUM CHISH! Damn I'm good.

you really don't get it... WoW PvP is easy mode, it always has been, where the only real contest is to see who gets the best gear, so you grind conquest points endlessly chasing that fruitless goal, i'd rather stick with the GW2 form of PvP, it may not be the ultimate in PvP terms, but its a hell of a lot more balanced than you find in WoW, at least in GW2 player skill actually matters, and thats probably why you hate it too.

bubaluba · September 2012

Thats what 90% of fantasy mmo gamers do--Return to wow. +1 bro

dariuszp · September 2012

Good luck with pandas. But I do understand some of this points.

~ sPVP could have more modes. We can only expect they add more in the future. I didn't complain because most of the time I have a blast on World vs World.

~ I don't agree with you about combat. WoW combat was all about timing. Use macro and kick everybody ass. Trick was to fire macro before your enemy. Use CC, put as much damage in CC duration, fire another before it went out, fire instant skills. Do your rotation. Boring, boring, boring. Limited weapon and side skills are good thing. You much choose wisely, make your own style and be good at it. Switch weapons and make combos. Dancing around 40 skills is just pathetic.

~ What kind of sandbox elements you expect in themepark ?

~ You have alternatives to combat.

Many quests are not about fights. Like one where you steal food from bunnies. You can also have snowball fights

And that's not all.

Well good luck. I too have some complains and I think some stuff could be better but in the end - GW2 is best MMO I know except of EVE. Problems is that after playing Guild Wars 2 I can't go back to other MMOs. I can't have one stupid weapon all the time with one stupid skill. I can't have piano of useless skills. I can't have "stun wars: stun the republic" anymore. I must switch weapons in combat. I want "whole server is my party system" when I can jump into a fight without worry that someone will bring hammer from havens yeling "KS, KS, no KS!" or something. I can't go back to kill & fetch quests and all that backtracking. I can't go back to boring, unrewarding and useless crafting from other MMO (wow included).

I just can't go back anymore. Yeah, GW2 have some issues in someone eyes but in the end - it's next best thing for me. Now I can only look forward in search for another game.

Wootloops · September 2012

Originally posted by Indrome
Yeah, condescension is ALWAYS the better argument and frees anyone from actually stating their opinion in a clear and comprehensible way.

Well... to my eyes you're obviously not even trying to communicate anymore and instead only brushing off any opinion that clashes with yours. You're not having fun in the game and have stated why. Some of those reasons are well thought out, others are just plain shallow. If you can't accept that some people are trying to broaden your horizons by disagreeing with you, you shouldn't have posted your opinion in the first place.

That is called an ad hominem argument. You're attacking me rather than my argument, which you ignored.

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