Is GW2 the final nail in the coffin of the western $15/month mmorpg? Will there be any company that releases a game post GW2 that isn't free to play or buy to play? Is any company foolish to attempt to charge a monthly fee for a new MMORGP?
Thats cute, he doesn't realise GW2 is far from F2P.
Give is it a few months, 6 tops and there will be a ~$50 x-pack....that plus ingame necessities such as bank slots, character slots etc and most players still wind up paying the equivalent of a monthly subs fee over a 12 month period
It's just a different business model, no-one does anything for free these days.
Expresso gave me a Hearthstone beta key.....I'm so happy
It's about time consumer get their money worth, subs are from the past yet so many keep sucking it like it's better to pay, thinking me paying, it give me quality.
Wel for the record, you paying it's just you paying, it doesn't change whatever they are doing with their games.
Good game are good game and it goes the same for bad games. (means, bad games are bad games)
Paying as nothing to do with the game, exept that most of the games studios will find new way to keep you paying, not for you to have fun just keep you paying and if you do have fun, well that is your luck.
2 identical chairs one cheap, the other one really expensive, 100 people tried the chair , only 5 said that they where the same therefor taking the cheap one, the other 95% go figure because the expensive chair was more confortable.
It was done and it is true.
Get your money worth people, if you earned your money with work just don't give it away like this.
what games since WoW have actually been worthy of a subscription?
I don't think the decline in the P2P model is the model, I think it's the fact that people just don't like the games.
EA blamed the sub model on it's failre of SWTOR.
What are they gogin to say when they can't give the game away?
I wonder why the fact that we've had a slump of crappy games never even get's looked at as a factor for the decline in the model. Is it because so many people are looking for evidence to justify GW2 revenue model?
what games since WoW have actually been worthy of a subscription?
I don't think the decline in the P2P model is the model, I think it's the fact that people just don't like the games.
EA blamed the sub model on it's failre of SWTOR.
What are they gogin to say when they can't give the game away?
I wonder why the fact that we've had a slump of crappy games never even get's looked at as a factor for the decline in the model. Is it because so many people are looking for evidence to justify GW2 revenue model?
Because it would mean admitting your product is crap and that you were trying to swindle people into buying a subpar product, which is the last thing any company wants to admit?
Is GW2 the final nail in the coffin of the western $15/month mmorpg? Will there be any company that releases a game post GW2 that isn't free to play or buy to play? Is any company foolish to attempt to charge a monthly fee for a new MMORGP?
This is just so funny how some people think that because they have an opinion, its the gospel. I personally and most in the community I play with prefer pay to play. Now if i'm paying and content doens't get added...sure theres a problem.
Incognito www.incognito-gaming.us "You're either with us or against us"
Is GW2 the final nail in the coffin of the western $15/month mmorpg? Will there be any company that releases a game post GW2 that isn't free to play or buy to play? Is any company foolish to attempt to charge a monthly fee for a new MMORGP?
It's funny how many people missed what the OP wrote just becuase he mentioned "GW2". They see (something something GW2), check to see if it's positive or negative, then respond in typical fashion.
These forums are so polarized right now about anything GW2 related. Can anyone remember a game that has stirred so much hater/fanboy emotion. I don't know if I should be disgusted or laugh my arse off at a lot these threads or the replies from teh usual suspects. Specially on a forum for a game they don't even play. Weird? No...Typical? Yes...
EDIT:
I forgot to say something along the lines of,.."jeez can't someone state their opinion without being attacked?", as seen in defense of so many obvious troll threads.
If the P2P model disapears then it will because of the consumer and not because of one single game .. The people willing to pay subs for games has been on the decline for years, even before GW2 came out and the fact is there are so many F2P games out now compared to a few years ago that people have options.
The P2P model made sense when gear / communication cost for the service was high. That's no longer true but the tradition continues. Beleive me when I say many markets would love a consumer base that is used to and even expects a monthly fee.
The payment model has little to do with how good or bad a game its. There is no implied contract in any payment method to say that profits will be injected back into player experience. The company does that all on there own for reputation with the goal to get addional money. From my experience GW1 delivered I think GW2 will too.
Originally posted by botrytis It is not the nail. Sorry - MMO's are niche games that cater to a smaller number of player. Many different types of business models will be supported. That is unless their business drops to 0 overnight and I don't think that will happen.
MMOs are not niche game anymore sorry to break the bubble, they were niche post WoW.
I still believe MMORPG's today are niche, but I do agree current MMO's are not.
Is GW2 the final nail in the coffin of the western $15/month mmorpg? Will there be any company that releases a game post GW2 that isn't free to play or buy to play? Is any company foolish to attempt to charge a monthly fee for a new MMORGP?
It's all about quality my friend. Give me MMORPG that is a true sandbox MMO with high quality and lot of different stuff to do and I will gladly pay 15$/month. Even more.
GW2 just rised the stakes. Because they provided quality like on one ever did and still they only require from you to buy the box.
15/month=More content updates, so no, it isn't the final nail, it's a different buisness model.
You think there will be NEW content in GW2 next month? Nope, because it isn't p2p.
Watch, 2 years from now p2p games out now will have more new content than GW2.
You may be on to something there.
A P2P game with monthly content updates and "expansions" that are free to subscribers... Yeah that model might work but please tell me if we have any game (except, to an extent EVE) that actually does that? Oh right your game does not exist, I get it...
I am certain a small amount of 15 $/€ a month games will exist in 2-3 years. NEW Mainstream/financially very successful ones: Not so much.
Here's a hint: WoW has classleading customer support but out of every $15/month only $3 actually pays for gamedevelopment/support. (And "content updates" seems rather sparse looking in from outside WoW.)
Contrary to popular belief a lot of people are smart enough to ask where the last $12 went...
We dont need casuals in our games!!! Errm... Well we DO need casuals to fund and populate our games - But the games should be all about "hardcore" because: We dont need casuals in our games!!! (repeat ad infinitum)
The subscription model is an outdated relic of the past when bandwith and server costs were very expensive. Now, they are so cheap that most companies combine them together with other misc. office expenses like printer ink and coffee filters on their earnings report.
The reason we continue to pay subscription fees is because we've been conditioned to expect them. Most people actually associate subscription fees with quality, when it couldn't be further from the truth.
The subscription model is an outdated relic of the past when bandwith and server costs were very expensive. Now, they are so cheap that most companies combine them together with other misc. office expenses like printer ink and coffee filters on their earnings report.
The reason we continue to pay subscription fees is because we've been conditioned to expect them. Most people actually associate subscription fees with quality, when it couldn't be further from the truth.
I would associate sub fees to recognition of a job well done in the distribution of continued fresh content, but yeh, lately that doesn't seem to be the case reliably, anywhere, huh.
What about the other end of the spectrum? How is GW2 affecting the F2P market? How can those games, with their P2W cash shops and little updates, possibly compete with the quality of GW2? How can all those converted MMO's to the FTP model possibly justify their silly class and content locks? That's where i see the bar being raised first.
What about the other end of the spectrum? How is GW2 affecting the F2P market? How can those games, with their P2W cash shops and little updates, possibly compete with the quality of GW2? How can all those converted MMO's to the FTP model possibly justify their silly class and content locks? That's where i see the bar being raised first.
By being FREE
I would assume across the whole F2P market that more people play them than will ever play Gw2 or WoW for the simple fact they are free.
What about the other end of the spectrum? How is GW2 affecting the F2P market? How can those games, with their P2W cash shops and little updates, possibly compete with the quality of GW2? How can all those converted MMO's to the FTP model possibly justify their silly class and content locks? That's where i see the bar being raised first.
The ante is being upped all over the place and it is good for us, the gamers.
sub model is dead. in investors eyes, the only mmo that is able to be successful with this model is WoW, and that is an isolated case as no other mmorpg has or will be able to replicate that (including whatever new mmorpg blizzard plans to make in the future). Most investors/companies nowadays understand this trend and will put money into a game during the hype phase when the stock is the highest and pull out their money either right before launch or right after release (example: CEO of funcom), effectively putting the game on life support mode. There is no incentive for most companies to do any work on the game after launch because that is where most of their money has been made (box sales), and sub numbers will almost always plummet after that.
Most memorable games: AoC(Tryanny PvP), RIFT, GW, GW2, Ragnarok Online, Aion, FFXI, FFXIV, Secret World, League of Legends (Silver II rank)
Originally posted by gessekai332 There is no incentive for most companies to do any work on the game after launch because that is where most of their money has been made (box sales), and sub numbers will almost always plummet after that.
This has been my argument with B2P. My logic is perfect. It's the "other developers", screwing up consistent content release, that are proving me wrong.
Originally posted by botrytis It is not the nail. Sorry - MMO's are niche games that cater to a smaller number of player. Many different types of business models will be supported. That is unless their business drops to 0 overnight and I don't think that will happen.
yea, 10 million users on one game are niche *g* and lets not count all those asians playing l2 and other games.
what are the maingames in your opinion? console games? :P
"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"
I am thoroughly engrossed in GW2 and loving every second of it, and I am truly thankful that a game that I will likely end up playing for a very long time happens to be sans monthly fees. But I would be playing it regardless, it's value to me exceeds that of monthly mmorpg subscription fees.
When the next wave of mmorpgs releases, I will judge them not on their subscription model (or lack thereof) but instead on their fun factor to me, overall value to me.
I'll play a game I find great/fun whether it has a fee or not. I will not play a game that I do not enjoy just because it's free of monrhtly fees.
back in the 80's we used to pay 10 cents a minute for online services, even at 1 hour a night that was close to 200 bucks a month in 1980 dollars. We useed ot do it becasue that was all we had unless you were lucky and had a education/military access to ARAPAnet. When EQ came out 15 bucks for a MMO was a bargain, still is I guess but the monthly fee model is on it's last leg. Just some companies still want to be greedy and have a box fee/monthly fee/cash shop...cough Funcom..cough cough Blizzard
The subscription model is an outdated relic of the past when bandwith and server costs were very expensive. Now, they are so cheap that most companies combine them together with other misc. office expenses like printer ink and coffee filters on their earnings report.
The reason we continue to pay subscription fees is because we've been conditioned to expect them. Most people actually associate subscription fees with quality, when it couldn't be further from the truth.
I would associate sub fees to recognition of a job well done in the distribution of continued fresh content, but yeh, lately that doesn't seem to be the case reliably, anywhere, huh.
It hasn't ever been the case, except for a few developers like CCP and Trion.
Most developers will drop a "free" content patch every 3-4 months and the patch will consist of a new raid or an instance. Maybe a few quests too, if we're lucky. In those 3-4 months, you've paid enough subscription fees to purchase a brand new game. Basically you just bought yourself a raid for $60.
Subscription fees were justified when server and bandwith costs were very expensive back in the lat 90's and early 00's. Now, most companies still maintain the model because it's free money for them.
Comments
Thats cute, he doesn't realise GW2 is far from F2P.
Give is it a few months, 6 tops and there will be a ~$50 x-pack....that plus ingame necessities such as bank slots, character slots etc and most players still wind up paying the equivalent of a monthly subs fee over a 12 month period
It's just a different business model, no-one does anything for free these days.
Expresso gave me a Hearthstone beta key.....I'm so happy
It's about time consumer get their money worth, subs are from the past yet so many keep sucking it like it's better to pay, thinking me paying, it give me quality.
Wel for the record, you paying it's just you paying, it doesn't change whatever they are doing with their games.
Good game are good game and it goes the same for bad games. (means, bad games are bad games)
Paying as nothing to do with the game, exept that most of the games studios will find new way to keep you paying, not for you to have fun just keep you paying and if you do have fun, well that is your luck.
2 identical chairs one cheap, the other one really expensive, 100 people tried the chair , only 5 said that they where the same therefor taking the cheap one, the other 95% go figure because the expensive chair was more confortable.
It was done and it is true.
Get your money worth people, if you earned your money with work just don't give it away like this.
what games since WoW have actually been worthy of a subscription?
I don't think the decline in the P2P model is the model, I think it's the fact that people just don't like the games.
EA blamed the sub model on it's failre of SWTOR.
What are they gogin to say when they can't give the game away?
I wonder why the fact that we've had a slump of crappy games never even get's looked at as a factor for the decline in the model. Is it because so many people are looking for evidence to justify GW2 revenue model?
Because it would mean admitting your product is crap and that you were trying to swindle people into buying a subpar product, which is the last thing any company wants to admit?
This is just so funny how some people think that because they have an opinion, its the gospel. I personally and most in the community I play with prefer pay to play. Now if i'm paying and content doens't get added...sure theres a problem.
Incognito
www.incognito-gaming.us
"You're either with us or against us"
It's funny how many people missed what the OP wrote just becuase he mentioned "GW2". They see (something something GW2), check to see if it's positive or negative, then respond in typical fashion.
These forums are so polarized right now about anything GW2 related. Can anyone remember a game that has stirred so much hater/fanboy emotion. I don't know if I should be disgusted or laugh my arse off at a lot these threads or the replies from teh usual suspects. Specially on a forum for a game they don't even play. Weird? No...Typical? Yes...
EDIT:
I forgot to say something along the lines of,.."jeez can't someone state their opinion without being attacked?", as seen in defense of so many obvious troll threads.
"If I offended you, you needed it" -Corey Taylor
If the P2P model disapears then it will because of the consumer and not because of one single game .. The people willing to pay subs for games has been on the decline for years, even before GW2 came out and the fact is there are so many F2P games out now compared to a few years ago that people have options.
The P2P model made sense when gear / communication cost for the service was high. That's no longer true but the tradition continues. Beleive me when I say many markets would love a consumer base that is used to and even expects a monthly fee.
The payment model has little to do with how good or bad a game its. There is no implied contract in any payment method to say that profits will be injected back into player experience. The company does that all on there own for reputation with the goal to get addional money. From my experience GW1 delivered I think GW2 will too.
I still believe MMORPG's today are niche, but I do agree current MMO's are not.
It's all about quality my friend. Give me MMORPG that is a true sandbox MMO with high quality and lot of different stuff to do and I will gladly pay 15$/month. Even more.
GW2 just rised the stakes. Because they provided quality like on one ever did and still they only require from you to buy the box.
You may be on to something there.
A P2P game with monthly content updates and "expansions" that are free to subscribers... Yeah that model might work but please tell me if we have any game (except, to an extent EVE) that actually does that? Oh right your game does not exist, I get it...
I am certain a small amount of 15 $/€ a month games will exist in 2-3 years. NEW Mainstream/financially very successful ones: Not so much.
Here's a hint: WoW has classleading customer support but out of every $15/month only $3 actually pays for gamedevelopment/support. (And "content updates" seems rather sparse looking in from outside WoW.)
Contrary to popular belief a lot of people are smart enough to ask where the last $12 went...
We dont need casuals in our games!!! Errm... Well we DO need casuals to fund and populate our games - But the games should be all about "hardcore" because: We dont need casuals in our games!!!
(repeat ad infinitum)
The subscription model is an outdated relic of the past when bandwith and server costs were very expensive. Now, they are so cheap that most companies combine them together with other misc. office expenses like printer ink and coffee filters on their earnings report.
The reason we continue to pay subscription fees is because we've been conditioned to expect them. Most people actually associate subscription fees with quality, when it couldn't be further from the truth.
If a B2P game offers better content than a Sub based game, logic dictates the B2P title would win the consumer.
I would associate sub fees to recognition of a job well done in the distribution of continued fresh content, but yeh, lately that doesn't seem to be the case reliably, anywhere, huh.
What about the other end of the spectrum? How is GW2 affecting the F2P market? How can those games, with their P2W cash shops and little updates, possibly compete with the quality of GW2? How can all those converted MMO's to the FTP model possibly justify their silly class and content locks? That's where i see the bar being raised first.
By being FREE
I would assume across the whole F2P market that more people play them than will ever play Gw2 or WoW for the simple fact they are free.
Completely agree.
Most memorable games: AoC(Tryanny PvP), RIFT, GW, GW2, Ragnarok Online, Aion, FFXI, FFXIV, Secret World, League of Legends (Silver II rank)
This has been my argument with B2P. My logic is perfect. It's the "other developers", screwing up consistent content release, that are proving me wrong.
yea, 10 million users on one game are niche *g* and lets not count all those asians playing l2 and other games.
what are the maingames in your opinion? console games? :P
"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"
I am thoroughly engrossed in GW2 and loving every second of it, and I am truly thankful that a game that I will likely end up playing for a very long time happens to be sans monthly fees. But I would be playing it regardless, it's value to me exceeds that of monthly mmorpg subscription fees.
When the next wave of mmorpgs releases, I will judge them not on their subscription model (or lack thereof) but instead on their fun factor to me, overall value to me.
I'll play a game I find great/fun whether it has a fee or not. I will not play a game that I do not enjoy just because it's free of monrhtly fees.
I miss DAoC
It hasn't ever been the case, except for a few developers like CCP and Trion.
Most developers will drop a "free" content patch every 3-4 months and the patch will consist of a new raid or an instance. Maybe a few quests too, if we're lucky. In those 3-4 months, you've paid enough subscription fees to purchase a brand new game. Basically you just bought yourself a raid for $60.
Subscription fees were justified when server and bandwith costs were very expensive back in the lat 90's and early 00's. Now, most companies still maintain the model because it's free money for them.