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Originally posted by Soandsoso Originally posted by Homitu Originally posted by Soandsoso Everyone knows WoW has a grind. Its the GW2 fans who said GW2 didn't have a grind which the OP has clearly pointed out they do. The truth hurts sometimes, we know.
There is no unified entity known as "the GW2 fans" who have a singular, uniform stance on grinding or, in fact, even the same definition of "grind." A number of 15+ page threads on this very forum can illustrate this. This is the single most common fallacy made on these forums:
Person A makes claim X.
Person B makes claim Y.
Both persons A and B are fans of the same game (GW2 in this example).
GW2 fans are saying both X and Y, which is hypocrtical/contradictory! Caught you!
In reality, various "GW2 fans" have held various positions on the matter, again, which is easily demonstrable by viewing past threads where GW2 fans debated each other about how the end game "grind" would feel (because that's what grind is, a feeling of repetitiveness.) Something that feels grindy to one person may not to another. Indeed, many of the items listed on this list won't feel grindy at all to many players. And that's part of the beauty of GW2: you play the parts of the game you want, earn the same level rewards, and you're never forced to do anything you don't want to over and over again, aka grind.
If I would have said "Its all the GW2 fans" then your point would be valid. But I didn't.
"It's the GW2 fans" implies all fans and you know it. When someone says "WoW fans" or "Red Sox fans" or "Tolkien fans" there is not an implied "some" before each of them. It's basic language we all use and isn't subject to misinterpretation. They are universally statements of generalization. Don't try to pretend otherwise now.
Originally posted by Homitu Originally posted by Soandsoso Originally posted by Homitu Originally posted by Soandsoso Everyone knows WoW has a grind. Its the GW2 fans who said GW2 didn't have a grind which the OP has clearly pointed out they do. The truth hurts sometimes, we know.
Its the GW2 fans could also be..."Its the GW fans that think there is no grind".......
You are reading it how you want to read it.
Originally posted by WhiteLantern Originally posted by Tardcore Originally posted by BadSpock Originally posted by f0dell54 Originally posted by BadSpock Like in UO, you know what I was doing before I was 7X GM? The same stuff I was doing after I was 7X GM. It is "different" than most other themepark MMOs in that sense, but not unique to GW2 and actually quite common in the sandbox sub-genre. Again I think this list was put together to combat the "nothing to do at 80" crowd, not put together to tout how "revolutionary and different GW2 end-game is" because it's really not - it's just different then a lot of themepark MMOs.
Macroing before 7X GM
Not macroing after 7X GM
GW2= Nothing like UO in any sense of the meaning.
Some of us actually didn't macro in UO. Some of us actually played and enjoyed the game.
And post Trammel/Felucca split UO pre-LBR is more similar in design philosophy and "feel" to GW2 than GW2 is similar to any EQ/WoW/Post-Wow themepark.
But that's off topic.
The list is dumb - but I believe was just made to show the obvious logical flaws in the "there is nothing to do at 80" comments we keep seeing.
No, there is no raiding and gear treadmill, but there is plenty to do at 80.
Ya'll need to lighten up!
Well yeah I see the point, but it doesn't help much to those who got bored during the climb to level cap.
I see it kind of like how it ends up for people in those damned endgame raid MMOs that reach cap but don't like raiding.
DUDE 1: "WOOT! Made it to level cap! What now guys!?"
RAID DUDES: "You can join us and RAID!!!"
DUDE 1: "Oh . . . I don't like raiding."
RAID DUDES: "Well you can FUCK OFF then!"
I'm going to come clean here and say that beacsue this^ has been my experience (as Dude1), I do actually prefer the horizontal, go-back-and-do-what-you-missed movement of GW2. Which is to say "I hate endgame (raiding especially)".
Originally posted by mbolme I honestly don't understand the issue. If you don't like the game, stop playing. It was designed in a particular way, and the entire game seems to me to be built to a consistent philosophy. (Do what you want - we won't stop you.) I love it and will play it a long time. If you don't, find a game you like and play that.
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
Originally posted by BadSpock Originally posted by Yamota Originally posted by Xzen Originally posted by papardelios Originally posted by krakra70 Here's my list: 1-80: Start looking for an MMO with actual endgame.
ahahaha agree 100%
Funny thing is the "actual" end game is the same as this list in all mmorpgs. Grind for gear. Grind for titles. Grind for rankings.
And by all you mean most themepark MMORPGs.
Yeah, cause there is NEVER any grinding in Sandbox MMOs....
Well, to be fair, sandbox MMORPG's are different- instead of playing for some amount of time before grinding, you get to start grinding as soon as you get in the game.
In WoW there's over 800 things to do...749, without MoP, is achievements lol. I'm an achievement junky, I got almost every achievement pre-MoP, except for like 3 of the legendary weapons achievements.
Edit: I like posting in the forums and that 8735 achievement points is right below my name hehehe
I have never seen so many mod edits in 2 pages. lol
edit: the first 2
If you get to the end, and have fun, keep playing. If you get to the end, and do not have fun, quit, maybe come back later when they add something.
Why do people make this so damn difficult?
I know some people wanted this to be the game that they could play for "years," and perhaps what we are seeing are those people who now feel cheated by the way the game is panning out for them, who knows.
I am having fun, but I can already tell this will not be a game I am playing in a year, not unless they add a buttload of content between now and then.
In my experience GW2 became extremely boring after I have reached lvl 80 and can't play with friends whenever I want (different playtimes due to rl). And I have like 65% of the world explored with a single char.
You have to act if you want to live in a different world.
It's not that there isn't "stuff" to do at 80.
It's that there's no incentive to do so.
Level 80 and the best gear in the game, what next?
Go hop around the WvWvW and fight in a massive zerg where you gear doesn't weight anything?
Not to mention you can buy the equal items from auction house so just a little RMT and anyone reaches the same point.
GW2 is ridden with the same problem than D3 and that's not even a MMORPG.
''/\/\'' Posted using Iphone bunni ( o.o) (")(")**This bunny was cloned from bunnies belonging to Gobla and is part of the Quizzical Fanclub and the The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club**
I find it funny how GW2 was supposed to be all different yet now we have boiled down DEs to random quests that spawns on the map and the DE bosses are similar (the same?) as elite mobs in other games. So we have elite mobs in the open world, dumbed down (mindless as mentioned in this thread) questing, and tons of title, rep, gear grinding at max level.
So how exactly is GW2 any different from other MMOs?
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
Originally posted by GoldenArrow It's not that there isn't "stuff" to do at 80. It's that there's no incentive to do so. Level 80 and the best gear in the game, what next? Go hop around the WvWvW and fight in a massive zerg where you gear doesn't weight anything? Not to mention you can buy the equal items from auction house so just a little RMT and anyone reaches the same point. GW2 is ridden with the same problem than D3 and that's not even a MMORPG.
Originally posted by Kaelano1 I have never seen so many mod edits in 2 pages. lol edit: the first 2
I got a mod edit while I was typing a post.... True story .....................
Originally posted by fivoroth I find it funny how GW2 was supposed to be all different yet now we have boiled down DEs to random quests that spawns on the map and the DE bosses are similar (the same?) as elite mobs in other games. So we have elite mobs in the open world, dumbed down (mindless as mentioned in this thread) questing, and tons of title, rep, gear grinding at max level. So how exactly is GW2 any different from other MMOs?
How is it different?
Lets address your points...
You don't want elite mobs in the open world? You think that all monsters should be normalized and be exactly the same? Wait, I know... You want to have bosses the way there are in dungeons!!! Well, guess what. Expecting anyone to tune a real boss fight so that it scales to be doable by anywhere from 2 to 200 players is ridiculous. You have "World Bosses" in GW2 and some are just suped up versions of their counterparts, and others are actually bosses with their own interesting mechanics... But all of them, even many of the dragons, are kept in certain basic constraints. While it would be cool to see full dungeon boss mechanics, imagine if pre-BC WoW allowed any number of people into MC, or made it part of the open world instead of instanced. Would it have been as challenging to take the stuff down in there with 200 players as it was with 40? The game has multiple ranks of monsters. You have regular mobs(with regular portraits), veteran rank 1(silver border on portrait), veteran rank 2(gold border on portrait), champion(gold border with crossed swords), ???? (purple border with swords and stylized flames), and bosses in dungeons(never noticed which border they have). Each rank is harder than the one before it and has more unique mechanics.
A few people have claimed that the questing is "dumbed down" or "mindless", but I am going to go out on a limb and say that for the most part either they haven't played very far into the game, or else they are having trouble figuring out what is going on around them. When I got to the straits of desolation I was the same... It took me a while of playing in the zone to understand what was happening(it helped a LOT when I went back and started reading all the lore objects, etc.). In the straits you have your forward base of operation, 3 fronts on which the pact forces need to secure in order to be able to assault Orr, etc... And it is actually a war-front. Now being that it is a high level and people are still capping out, there are enough people there that most of the time we hold at least 2 of the 3 fronts successfully on my server. But similar situations exist in earlier zones, and when you get to a point in a DE where it splits into 2 or more DEs and you have to decide which effort to support, or where you fail the DE and you need to help them retreat or pull back to another point, etc... That isn't just mindless dumbed down questing. In WoW, when people would right click on a quest giver, scroll past the text, and hit accept. Open quest log and see "go to point X and kill 15 of monster Y", and they go, do that, and return... That is dumbed down. You talk about how other people in the thread mentioned that it is mindless... How about telling me what you think of the questing, and if you think it is mindless please tell me a bit about your experience with it...
Yes, there is lots of stuff to get at max level that will take lots and lots of work to pick up. All of it has less epic looking counterparts which you can get for much less investment... And that is your prerogative. Everything is optional. There is no "end-game" in any game which doesn't involve some grind, because you are defining grind as anything where you need to do something repetitively. The problem in this case is that you apply it to something like getting your legendary weapons... "Well, I need 200 skill points to get my legendary weapon, so I am going to grind skill points". Guess what, you get skill points 2 ways, by leveling(and yes, you can keep leveling after 80 for more skill points, and it is flat leveling still) or by doing skill challenges. Do you consider going back through all the zones and doing the skill challenges a grind? Maybe, I personally don't...
You basically came out and said "lets strip all context from everything and give the most meaninglessly general descriptions of everything we possibly can, and then ask how it is different from every other game!". Well, we can do that kind of generalization ad-infinitum. I saw someone do it with pong earlier, also with WoW(in a very nice loop script). How about this... GW2 is just a piece of software where multiple users interact with the code and there is a graphical representation of their actions. How is GW2 any different from any other piece of software?
DEs for the most part are not random. DEs are strongly story driven, follow a logical path, are a great delivery medium for lore and characters(if you bother to stop and listen to the npcs, etc.), etc. etc. etc. DE bosses are elite... whooptee doo. Guess what, there are DEs that don't even have "bosses". There are DEs that don't even have fighting.
If you have played the game, why are you asking me how it is different... Play it, it is self-evident. Just leave your pre-conceived notions at the door.
20 dollars is 3 gold and some change(I hope you understand what I'm saying)
Be easy and enjoy life guys, peace.
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
Originally posted by Icewhite Why are so many people vested in promoting this weird continuous warfare between Brand X and Brand Z? All the same sterling fellow. Damn, he is so attractive. And the prose he generates, very effulgent. Never mind, 'forum pvp', of course. Nothing will stem this tide (except Pandas--give them something else to do, maybe?)
Well thats ruined my theory that included the words, sides, two and coin.
This doom and gloom thread was brought to you by Chin Up the new ultra high caffeine soft drink for gamers who just need that boost of happiness after a long forum session.
Originally posted by IfrianMMO
http://guildwars2hub.com/features/editorials/80-things-do-level-80 80 Things to Do At Level 80 Complete your personal story Defeat Zhaitan Unlock all available skills for your profession / race Raise your crafting disciplines to skill level 400 Earn enough gold to purchase a racial armor set Earn enough karma to purchase an exotic armor set Play through all dungeons in story mode Complete all dungeons in explorable mode Complete all 33 possible explorable mode dungeon paths Earn enough dungeon tokens to purchase a set of armor Collect a set of armor from each dungeon in the game Start a petition to make the Undead Orrian Chicken a new necro minion Earn enough karma to purchase a racial weapon Craft an exotic weapon for your character Craft an exotic armor set for your character Purchase a Dragon’s Deep weapon Earn all possible PvE titles Experiment with new builds for your profession Discover all possible recipes for your crafting disciplines Master all crafting disciplines Experiment with the Mystic Forge Create a Mystic weapon in the Mystic Forge Craft a legendary weapon in the Mystic Forge Explore all areas in the game Find and use a vial of black dye Find a vial of black dye and give it to a friend Create or purchase a full set of 20 slot bags Give Logan a wedgie Participate in the Norn Keg Brawl Unlock all Keg Brawl achievements Create a new character to experience a different profession / race Participate in structured PvP Raise your sPvP rank Achieve the rank of Ascendant in sPvP Complete your favorite sPvP cosmetic armor set Collect new cosmetic weapon skins for sPvP Unlock all possible cosmetic weapon and armor skins in sPvP Earn all sPvP titles Find and complete all 31 jumping puzzles Complete the current Monthly achievements Help your guild earn influence to unlock additional perks Outrun a centaur Charm all possible pets as a Ranger Create an all-ranger guild called Team Rocket, lose constantly in sPvP Collect all 101 types of cooking materials Fill every collection slot in the bank with at least one item Participate in World versus World Help your world win in WvW Defeat enough enemy players in WvW to complete the medal Complete the awesome Yakslapper achievement in WvW Complete all WvW achievements Build and use all siege weapon types in WvW Earn all possible WvW Titles Play the organ in Caledon forest, and party with the Quaggan Earn enough gold to purchase a Commander Tome Visit the monument to Killeen and pay your respects Defeat the Shatterer Defeat the Claw of Jormag Defeat Tequatl the Sunless Add new friends to your friend’s list Organize an in-game event for your guild Complete every map in the game Participate in meta events Discover and participate in new dynamic events Collect stacks of butter and butter prank your friends Learn the ins and outs of the Trading Post Get rich selling Globs of Ectoplasm Buy a Box o’ Fun and throw a party in Lion’s Arch Complete an armor set for your character’s Order Read all of the books in Divinity's Reach Read the story of how Ebonhawke was founded Complete all possible weapon achievements for your character Defeat the Champion of Grenth and purchase the exotic armor set Write about your level 80 experience, have it published on GW2Hub Purchase a set of armor from the guild armorsmith Purchase a set of weapons from the guild weaponsmith Complete all Slayer achievements Complete the Lifetime Survivor achievement Go skydiving in Arah after defeating Zhaitan Have fun! So according to the "experts" this is the list of different and fun things you are supposed to be able to do at lv 80. I love how the 90% of it is : -Grind for Gear -Grind for achievements -Grind for collect random crap -Spam dungeons like crazy But hey, it´s GW2, that automatically makes it non-grind and fun apparently, even though any other game would be burned to death if they presented such a list as "endgame content" I like the game, i have bought gems two times already to support it, and i will keep getting the expansions and whatever they throw at us because i enjoy the game, but it came to a moment where anything gw2 does is automatically holy and fun for no other reason that it´s gw2 And this is why i hate this game´s fanbois much more than i do hate the haters, despite the fact i do enjoy the game myself. This is getting ridiculous.
since when has GW not been about grinding... some people i guess dont understand this. The game is inheirantly grindy. all points are valid. not really a fanboi but when one buys GW2 without playing the first guildwars is where you run into some trouble with understanding of the presented list. it doesnt take a fanboi. just someone to have played teh first game
The real game in GW2 is PVP aka W v W v W, in the same vein as DAOC, which is still enjoying some degree of success.
W v W v W is a large component of the game, inciting ooh's and ahh's from across the gaming world...
You knew this coming in, why complain now?
81. Eat an entire mahogany dining table as an encore.
Jk jk... Nice list. I like the Give Logan a wedgie one. We must have an option to do that.
Originally posted by WhiteLantern You reallize that you're playing it wrong, right? don'tbanme, don'tbanme, don'tbanme
Games:Currently playing:NothingWill play: Darkfall: Unholy WarsPast games:Guild Wars 2 - Xpiher DuminousXpiher's GW2GW 1 - Xpiher DuminousDarkfall - Xpiher Duminous (NA) retiredAoC - Xpiher (Tyranny) retiredWarhammer - Xpiher