VirusDancer stole my awnser but he spoke the truth for me as well. I enter every MMO ive ever played knowing full well Ill be done with it in 2 to 3 months. Jumping onto the next shiney new MMO. Now im playing GW2..knowing full well that I will be gone as soon as MWO launches which I will leave when FF14 2.0 comes out...which will tide me over too Neverwinter. Thats as far foward as Ive planned. IM sure there is something to try after Neverwinter..
No matter how cynical you become, its never enough to keep up - Lily Tomlin
There are a few things (only #1 is in particular order):
#1. Friends. I require rl friends to play along with and hopefully enjoyable guld mates. Any game that is solo or forces me to solo all the time (even though I tend to do it a lot) I get bored of playing. I do not play any single players games or consoles. The social aspect of gaming keeps me playing. Console and single player games are for youth or frankly people with no lives. The real world is vastly more interesting than sitting at a screen playing against a computer. I'd rather read a book.
2. Vast world and non-linear leveling. I require a huge world with interesting sites. Most modern mmo's are WAY too small. Any game that has only one leveling path is typically abandoned by me withing a couple months. A vast world also mean no hand holding. I simply cannot stand super accurate and detailed maps showing me where everything in the game is, where the mobs are and every quest point. Some of these so called fantasy games have better maps than todays high tech GPS devices. Games that are good with this are Wow and Lotro and usually more sandbox style games.
3. Complex character development with lots of customization. Frankly I am tired of trees but have put up with them. I love lateral progression or many things to progress. This may appear as a grind to many but anything that makes my character more powerful that is within my power is fun for me. This also has to be outside of gear progression alone. I hate gear progression. I like getting new gear but if it is the ONLY method to increase my characters power and resides within it's own mini-game I start to lose interest. An example of a game that keeps me interested despite it's age is Lotro. Your character gains power from: traditional and class specific gear upgrades through dungeons, world, quest and crafting, virtues, traits, legendary item construction and advancement and hell maybe others I am not thinking of. At any given moment there is always something you can do to increase your characters potential. Most games you simply level, train and *POOF* your power is flat again for another level as there is nothing to do other than perhaps finding a better gear piece. Frankly I miss the random stats gear from AC. I loved the ability to go out and adventure in difficult zones/dungeons of your own choice to find gear. The gear you find may not even be the stats or type you want yet still useful through modification with crafting. Modern mmo's are about heading to only one dungeon or grinding one rep/tokens to get only one BIS item that you cannot modify and force your to be a clone of everyone else with your build/class.
4. Epic lore. I need to feel the story is greater than everything else in the game. The setting needs to pull me in. The latest failing of this has been GW2. I feel absolutely nothing once logging in. The game wants me to do nothing but go kill and the story element is the worst I have seen in years. Various older mmo's have had starter areas I would repeat over and over again simply because how fun they were. Carrying this further into the game is the challenge but some manage to do it. As I am playing Lotro mostly atm I will mention that as an example. There are always reminders everywhere you go that the world and story that is going on is far more important than you. So many other mmo's seem only to be a play ground for you character to advance in with little interested in pulling you into a complex web of story and immersion.
Ultimately there is no perfect mmo for me atm. It requires a world like Dereth of Telon that is open without zones and only very loosely defined zones of difficulty. I love venturing into areas where you really are not sure if you can take on the mobs there. One element long destroyed by modern mmo's is the ability to take on mobs far above your level range. In AC you could take on a level 150 with your level 50 is properly prepared. I uninstall a mmo shortly after finding out a mob 2 levels above you is high impossible (ie. Allods Online).
1) Longterm goals related to character development
I like the possibility to obtain better gear after level cap. I am not so much keen on the way WoW does it. It became too grindy and the fact that the gear gets reset every now and then also does not make it any better for me. As I said, I like longterm goals.
You mentioned Lineage II. I really like the way gear progression was handled back then (Chronicle 1, 2). It was really difficult and time consuming to obtain the best in slot gear. I would say that for regular people with a job, it was nearly impossible. There was still something to look forward to. However, I did not like the way towards the gear. It was a terrible grind. You said you liked it and I accept that. I also used to have fun grinding mobs, but I believe that the way towards the goals in an MMO can be more interesting than that.
The progression does not necessarily have to be only about gear. Gaining skills, crafting, stats, perks, talents, whatever it may be which makes your character stronger in a longterm makes MMORPG more attractive for me.
2) Friends + Guild
I believe that it is one of the main reasons why I am still playing WoW. There is my old guild consisting of people I have been playing with for many years now whom I met in the game back then.
3) Fun factor
To a large extent influenced by the previous two points, but really...if the game had the best longterm goals and there would be bunch of my real life friends playing it, but the gameplay would be boring, I probably would quit it anyway.
4) Lore
In vast majority of games, I really do not care about the lore. However, there are games in which the lore simply is important for me. In WoW, it has always been a significant aspect, for me (up till the death of Arthas). I used to play Warcraft 3 back then and I really liked the lore. The campaign was absolutely fantastic. Suddenly, they released WoW which allowed me to enter the huge world and be part of the lore. It was really cool.
I do agree that modern MMO's need to have more goals that are interesting and diverse but for longevity its going to be very hard to stop grind or should I say repetiton getting in there somewhere. Companies do not have the resources to bang out top quality content, innovation and variety to stave the onset of repetition IMO.
This doom and gloom thread was brought to you by Chin Up the new ultra high caffeine soft drink for gamers who just need that boost of happiness after a long forum session.
Usually for me tis character progression.. when that stops i usually find myself getting bored of the game.. Tho saying that if the game has good PVP the means somthing.. i.e. open world PVP with player created forts and so on then it usually keeps me around a lot longer
I'm not really sure but I guess what keeps me attached in playing my favorite online game would be the events, unique costumes, armors, weapons & music & the community. And of course the background & the current story keeps me intrigued everytime I play. I'm more in the aesthetics side of the game
for the most part, pvp. though if pve didn't exist i might be more inclined to turn to another game quicker. i played an mmo about a month ago that really disappointed me because you had to level up to enjoy the pvp. i didn't like that at all. constant grinding and questing gets boring, imo.
Originally posted by gravesworn What kept me playing darkfall was the constant fear of loss and hope for gain. Cant say anything has got me as excited and as alert as that game.
Kind of a gambler's mentality, no? Well, I can say I hate gambling, which would explain why "fear of loss" does nothing for me. I understand the hope for gain though, but oddly, it's not partnered with a fear of loss for me. A brief fear of dying is okay, but fear of loss like in free for all loot PvP......uhm, no. As a matter of fact, if that's in a game, I won't play it. For instance, I liked UO POST TRAMMEL. You won't find many who would say that, but I enjoyed the game much more then.
What keeps me playing a game is some amount of freedom and a sandboxy feel to the game. Notice I did not say a pure sandbox. The game I played the longest was EQ2, then WoW, Fallen Earth, and now I'm sure GW2 will win one of the "longest played" titles in my collection too (not counting single player games which I also have a list of longest played). I played UO and like I said, preferred it after Trammel was added. I don't particularly care for PvP and I love crafting and PvE. All players are different, hmm?
To stay long term, a game also must have a beautiful game world and lots of places to explore. If the game world isn't beautiful, like say EQ2 (parts of it are, a lot is not), then it needs to have other things that I find vastly entertaining like housing and carpentry or collections.
Not having an endgame that is 90% geared towards the hardcore raider minority.
These been the games I played longest in order. Daoc Eve War Coh Wow (it wasn't a raiders game until a year or so after launch when they hired all them EQ days dudes, I quit just after BC when I realised 90% of the effort was going into that boring raid shit)
Games I've dropped like a shot not lasting a month or two Swtor Rift (well made but not for me its for raiders) Everquest which I really really hated.
Basicly wow is Microsoft. It was cool when it launched as it didn't make us jump through hoops like IBM (eq). But then it evolved into the new IBM. (gw2 is Google)
Originally posted by tank017 Freedom, freedom to create my own journey, my own quests.no premade quest/theme park style attaching a leash around my neck, pulling me in one single direction.challenge is another factor, I want it to be challenging to get to end level, I don't want to gain a level for sneezing.Basically, the opposite of todays mmos lol..
THIS.
I would add/elaborate with a ruleset that allows this freedom and the social aspect of guild cities/seige warfare. The games that I have played the longest get me invested with this, because it is not some script that hits an endpoint (or in the case of raiding, a script that plays like a broken record at endgame), but a neverending challenge of politics, warfare, and wealth accrual that you can use to build the landscape around you.
ditto, so far GW2 (for me) has some of these aspects.and no im not a fanboi, i actually just bought it on a whim said wtf, was not going to buy it. honestly glad I did.
I am a collector. If there is something that drops from a mob/instance/boss/event, I will be there. The low % drop chances are even better, I will burn a certain kind of mob to the ground if there is a slight chance of getting a collectible. I could care less about having 100 levels of nonsense.
I played WoW up until WotLK, played RoM for 2 years and now Rift. I am F2P player. I support games when I feel they deserve my money and I want the items enough. I don't troll, and I don't take kindly to trolls.
I did (and prob will for a little more) play WOW longterm (2-3 year?) but there is no apriori reason why i should play any MMO longterm.
MMOs are games .. if they are fun .. i will play. In fact, after MOP, i probably will move to F2P MMOs and hop around.
The OLD games? I got disgusted with UO during beta. EQ got too grindy (horrible camping) in a year. WOW is the only one that holds my attention for more than 1 year.
Why? thats the theme of the thread.
Why .. that is a good question.
I suppose because WOW has interesting enough combat mechanics, and enough non-repeatable content (at least while leveling). And also becuase there is a drought in ARPG. To be honest, after a while i got bored with WOW too .. but expansion & content patch sometimes get me back.
Example .. WOTLK gets me into raiding. Got sick of it so quit after 1 or 2 tier of content in CATA but LFR brought me back.
I am still debating whether to play MOP (as i have quit for a while playing D3).
Replayability: multiple distinctive races, classes and levelling paths. The latter requiring either multiple separate solo quest paths or distinctive mob-grinding* combined with some distinctive solo quests** so even if you levelled up the same race / class combo in the same zone there were still different ways of doing it.
Sort of like Skyrim or Morrowind or Fallout 3 except with multiple start locations and without the "kill the dark lord" type quest that starts from the beginning.
*distinctive mob grinding means mobs aren't all the same so mobs might be solo or grouped and each type of mob has some special characteristic that makes fighting them different from other mobs
** class based or faction or morality choice based so different ones are available depending on choices you make
Replayability: multiple distinctive races, classes and levelling paths. The latter requiring either multiple separate solo quest paths or distinctive mob-grinding* combined with some distinctive solo quests** so even if you levelled up the same race / class combo in the same zone there were still different ways of doing it.
Sort of like Skyrim or Morrowind or Fallout 3 except with multiple start locations and without the "kill the dark lord" type quest that starts from the beginning.
*distinctive mob grinding means mobs aren't all the same so mobs might be solo or grouped and each type of mob has some special characteristic that makes fighting them different from other mobs
** class based or faction or morality choice based so different ones are available depending on choices you make
This is what Lineage 2 did well each mob had its own strengths and weaknesses that make it difficult for certain class to fight solo and there were open world raid bosses that required big groups to tackle also different level mobs roamed the same areas so you had to be on your toes.
This doom and gloom thread was brought to you by Chin Up the new ultra high caffeine soft drink for gamers who just need that boost of happiness after a long forum session.
Comments
No matter how cynical you become, its never enough to keep up - Lily Tomlin
lol the first step is admiting you have a problem
No matter how cynical you become, its never enough to keep up - Lily Tomlin
There are a few things (only #1 is in particular order):
#1. Friends. I require rl friends to play along with and hopefully enjoyable guld mates. Any game that is solo or forces me to solo all the time (even though I tend to do it a lot) I get bored of playing. I do not play any single players games or consoles. The social aspect of gaming keeps me playing. Console and single player games are for youth or frankly people with no lives. The real world is vastly more interesting than sitting at a screen playing against a computer. I'd rather read a book.
2. Vast world and non-linear leveling. I require a huge world with interesting sites. Most modern mmo's are WAY too small. Any game that has only one leveling path is typically abandoned by me withing a couple months. A vast world also mean no hand holding. I simply cannot stand super accurate and detailed maps showing me where everything in the game is, where the mobs are and every quest point. Some of these so called fantasy games have better maps than todays high tech GPS devices. Games that are good with this are Wow and Lotro and usually more sandbox style games.
3. Complex character development with lots of customization. Frankly I am tired of trees but have put up with them. I love lateral progression or many things to progress. This may appear as a grind to many but anything that makes my character more powerful that is within my power is fun for me. This also has to be outside of gear progression alone. I hate gear progression. I like getting new gear but if it is the ONLY method to increase my characters power and resides within it's own mini-game I start to lose interest. An example of a game that keeps me interested despite it's age is Lotro. Your character gains power from: traditional and class specific gear upgrades through dungeons, world, quest and crafting, virtues, traits, legendary item construction and advancement and hell maybe others I am not thinking of. At any given moment there is always something you can do to increase your characters potential. Most games you simply level, train and *POOF* your power is flat again for another level as there is nothing to do other than perhaps finding a better gear piece. Frankly I miss the random stats gear from AC. I loved the ability to go out and adventure in difficult zones/dungeons of your own choice to find gear. The gear you find may not even be the stats or type you want yet still useful through modification with crafting. Modern mmo's are about heading to only one dungeon or grinding one rep/tokens to get only one BIS item that you cannot modify and force your to be a clone of everyone else with your build/class.
4. Epic lore. I need to feel the story is greater than everything else in the game. The setting needs to pull me in. The latest failing of this has been GW2. I feel absolutely nothing once logging in. The game wants me to do nothing but go kill and the story element is the worst I have seen in years. Various older mmo's have had starter areas I would repeat over and over again simply because how fun they were. Carrying this further into the game is the challenge but some manage to do it. As I am playing Lotro mostly atm I will mention that as an example. There are always reminders everywhere you go that the world and story that is going on is far more important than you. So many other mmo's seem only to be a play ground for you character to advance in with little interested in pulling you into a complex web of story and immersion.
Ultimately there is no perfect mmo for me atm. It requires a world like Dereth of Telon that is open without zones and only very loosely defined zones of difficulty. I love venturing into areas where you really are not sure if you can take on the mobs there. One element long destroyed by modern mmo's is the ability to take on mobs far above your level range. In AC you could take on a level 150 with your level 50 is properly prepared. I uninstall a mmo shortly after finding out a mob 2 levels above you is high impossible (ie. Allods Online).
You stay sassy!
You stay sassy!
I do agree that modern MMO's need to have more goals that are interesting and diverse but for longevity its going to be very hard to stop grind or should I say repetiton getting in there somewhere. Companies do not have the resources to bang out top quality content, innovation and variety to stave the onset of repetition IMO.
This doom and gloom thread was brought to you by Chin Up the new ultra high caffeine soft drink for gamers who just need that boost of happiness after a long forum session.
Working towards gear/skills that will make me better in PvP
Dynamic player generated content
Usually for me tis character progression.. when that stops i usually find myself getting bored of the game.. Tho saying that if the game has good PVP the means somthing.. i.e. open world PVP with player created forts and so on then it usually keeps me around a lot longer
Interaction with the world and players.
Not just a treadmill that force me to do the same thing over and over again for gear progession.
for the most part, pvp. though if pve didn't exist i might be more inclined to turn to another game quicker. i played an mmo about a month ago that really disappointed me because you had to level up to enjoy the pvp. i didn't like that at all. constant grinding and questing gets boring, imo.
Kind of a gambler's mentality, no? Well, I can say I hate gambling, which would explain why "fear of loss" does nothing for me. I understand the hope for gain though, but oddly, it's not partnered with a fear of loss for me. A brief fear of dying is okay, but fear of loss like in free for all loot PvP......uhm, no. As a matter of fact, if that's in a game, I won't play it. For instance, I liked UO POST TRAMMEL. You won't find many who would say that, but I enjoyed the game much more then.
What keeps me playing a game is some amount of freedom and a sandboxy feel to the game. Notice I did not say a pure sandbox. The game I played the longest was EQ2, then WoW, Fallen Earth, and now I'm sure GW2 will win one of the "longest played" titles in my collection too (not counting single player games which I also have a list of longest played). I played UO and like I said, preferred it after Trammel was added. I don't particularly care for PvP and I love crafting and PvE. All players are different, hmm?
To stay long term, a game also must have a beautiful game world and lots of places to explore. If the game world isn't beautiful, like say EQ2 (parts of it are, a lot is not), then it needs to have other things that I find vastly entertaining like housing and carpentry or collections.
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
These been the games I played longest in order.
Daoc
Eve
War
Coh
Wow (it wasn't a raiders game until a year or so after launch when they hired all them EQ days dudes, I quit just after BC when I realised 90% of the effort was going into that boring raid shit)
Games I've dropped like a shot not lasting a month or two
Swtor
Rift (well made but not for me its for raiders)
Everquest which I really really hated.
ditto, so far GW2 (for me) has some of these aspects.and no im not a fanboi, i actually just bought it on a whim said wtf, was not going to buy it. honestly glad I did.
What keeps you playing an MMO longterm?
For me, that'd be the Gameplay.
The usual, Guild mates/friends, fun & interesting Pve/Pvp Content & Class Balance
I played WoW up until WotLK, played RoM for 2 years and now Rift.
I am F2P player. I support games when I feel they deserve my money and I want the items enough.
I don't troll, and I don't take kindly to trolls.
Looking at: The Repopulation
Preordering: None
Playing: Random Games
Community > Content > Alliance PvP like in Lineage
So What Now?
Why .. that is a good question.
I suppose because WOW has interesting enough combat mechanics, and enough non-repeatable content (at least while leveling). And also becuase there is a drought in ARPG. To be honest, after a while i got bored with WOW too .. but expansion & content patch sometimes get me back.
Example .. WOTLK gets me into raiding. Got sick of it so quit after 1 or 2 tier of content in CATA but LFR brought me back.
I am still debating whether to play MOP (as i have quit for a while playing D3).
Replayability: multiple distinctive races, classes and levelling paths. The latter requiring either multiple separate solo quest paths or distinctive mob-grinding* combined with some distinctive solo quests** so even if you levelled up the same race / class combo in the same zone there were still different ways of doing it.
Sort of like Skyrim or Morrowind or Fallout 3 except with multiple start locations and without the "kill the dark lord" type quest that starts from the beginning.
*distinctive mob grinding means mobs aren't all the same so mobs might be solo or grouped and each type of mob has some special characteristic that makes fighting them different from other mobs
** class based or faction or morality choice based so different ones are available depending on choices you make
This is what Lineage 2 did well each mob had its own strengths and weaknesses that make it difficult for certain class to fight solo and there were open world raid bosses that required big groups to tackle also different level mobs roamed the same areas so you had to be on your toes.
This doom and gloom thread was brought to you by Chin Up the new ultra high caffeine soft drink for gamers who just need that boost of happiness after a long forum session.
Server-wide sense of community... Something most modern games are sorely lacking in.
Bren
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