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My Main Issues With GW2

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  • BadSpockBadSpock Somewhere, MIPosts: 7,974Member
    Originally posted by Wootloops
    Originally posted by Nilenya

    your combat consists of mainly autoattacking?  and you mention elementalist in the same sentence?

    You are supposed to be flicking between your auras so that you can benefit from all your combo's and buffs in combat, plus the great mobility it gives you.

    And if you play as you say, mainly auto attacking, why do you want ranked spvp. You'd never see anything but the buttom anyway.

    You might be right about Ele's considering how low the CD is between the swapping and the abilities therein (She's my newest character), but I'll see if it's actually efficient to do in practical terms. But weapon swapping for the mesmer and guardian (Which I did, especially for Mesmer) still led to just autoattacking most of the time.

    I found myself auto-attacking a lot as Guardian just because I could do OK damage and didn't really take all too much (this was in PvE btw)

    But as I level up more and more, the enemies hit harder and my auto-attack just doesn't do enough dmg anymore - where as ability damage is HUGE... even using something like Mace + Shield which is largely support/defensive, dropping the #2 skill for the regen also does a stupid amount of damage compared to the auto-attack.

    Greatsword #5 is great DoT damage, #3 is just silly high damage, scepter+torch is my new favorite as #3 vulnerability + #2 AoE dmg + 4/5 direct damage via Burning, talented via traits to do +10% to burning targets...

    Auto attack is quickly becoming nothing but filler.

  • Master10KMaster10K LondonPosts: 3,065Member
    Originally posted by Wootloops
    Originally posted by BadSpock

    PvP'er who likes gear > skill PvP doesn't like GW2 sPvP and how you can't farm said gear to go into open world and pwn noobs with your l337 gears...

    sPvP in GW2 is exactly like Arena Tournaments in WoW - all gear is equal, all about player skill and strategy and coordination/communication.

    Unless of course you never played Tournament mode sPvP and think the practice mode is all there is.

    Having more buttons to hit and more keybinds does not = more skill btw.

    Each toon has at least 15 abilities to use + Profession specifics.

    All about how you use it.

     

    I don't think MMOs should have levels or stat gear at all, so you're not talking about me. And having more keybinds does in fact usually equal more skill.

    No... Just no. Skills on your bar =/= Your skill as a player. If that were true then I would be considered a really skilled player in this game, as I am an Elementalist able to manage 29 skills.

    No... More skill is being able to do something like what this player just did. Fight off a Warrior, whilst avoiding the instagib trebuchet shots that are raining down on him. That there takes true skill. Not having an extra button that improves his evasion by 50% for 8 seconds.

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  • SoulOfRazielSoulOfRaziel Porto FerreiraPosts: 405Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Wootloops

    These are my main issues with Guild Wars 2, and why WoW is going to remain my main game:

    When compared to WoW:

    1. Less ability to become the best and show it off.

    -sPvP isn’t competitively ranked.

    -One sPvP game mode (Huge issue).

    -sPvP gear can’t be worn in the real world and real world gear can’t be worn in sPvPland.

    -sPvP colors my armor (Minor).

    -Enemies don’t see my character name.

    -No gear/build/achievement inspection or achievement linking.

    2. Combat is boring and takes little skill (Yes, WoW’s combat does take more skill; much more in fact. And I’ve gotten Gladiator so I have experience):

    -Attacking consists of mostly auto-attacking (Been the same on Guardian, Mesmer, and Elementalist in both PvP and PvE), and this is due to a mix of the following:

    -Not enough attack skills.

    -Not enough attack skills with a small enough CD.

    -Not enough attack skills with enough superiority over auto-attack to be worth the risk of using.

    -Not enough skills overall (In WoW I have about 35-40 skill keybinds and I use each and every one of them).

    In general:

    1. Not enough sandbox elements.

    2. PvE is separate from PvP.

    -I’m mostly a PvP player so this is why this is a big issue for me. I want my PvE to be intertwined with my PvP. I want to go all around the world and see the landscapes and fight dragons, all while doing mainly PvP activities. Instead I’m stuck in the hideous mists (They really could have designed that place aesthetically better and more diverse). But to their credit they do add some PvE elements into WvW and sPvP, but they’re rather boring.

    3. Not enough compelling “alternative to normal combat” activities.

    -To their credit, they tried with their “activities”, but they’re too basic and simple. WoW’s new pokemon activity is an example of a good alternative activity.

    Parting thought:

    -I think the key to the perfect MMO (At least for me) is having a robust sandbox game with a huge multitude of themepark-esque competitive/ranked PvP activities.

    Good luck on WoW and let gw2 for the rest of us =]

    image

  • doragon86doragon86 Boston, MAPosts: 589Member
    GW2 and WoW, both have their ups and downs. If you don't like GW2, then simply return to WoW. 

    "For the Angel of Death spread his wings on the blast,
    And breathed in the face of the foe as he passed:
    And the eyes of the sleepers waxed deadly and chill,
    And their hearts but once heaved, and for ever grew still!"
    ~Lord George Gordon Byron

  • BadSpockBadSpock Somewhere, MIPosts: 7,974Member
    Originally posted by Master10K
    Originally posted by Wootloops
    Originally posted by BadSpock

    Having more buttons to hit and more keybinds does not = more skill btw.

    All about how you use it.

    I don't think MMOs should have levels or stat gear at all, so you're not talking about me. And having more keybinds does in fact usually equal more skill.

    No... Just no. Skills on your bar =/= Your skill as a player. If that were true then I would be considered a really skilled player in this game, as I am an Elementalist able to manage 29 skills.

    No... More skill is being able to do something like what this player just did. Fight off a Warrior, whilst avoiding the instagib trebuchet shots that are raining down on him. That there takes true skill. Not having an extra button that improves his evasion by 50% for 8 seconds.

    That vid was awesome - dude is a great player. Gave me some great build ideas... funny you think you play a class enough to "get it" and then see something like that and it's like a light bulb.. like, holy crap I didn't even think of doing a Meditation focused build.

  • WootloopsWootloops Melville, NYPosts: 165Member
    Originally posted by BadSpock

    That vid was awesome - dude is a great player. Gave me some great build ideas... funny you think you play a class enough to "get it" and then see something like that and it's like a light bulb.. like, holy crap I didn't even think of doing a Meditation focused build.

    If you notice, he's mostly autoattacking, and apparently he's really good.

  • KuinnKuinn MestaPosts: 2,093Member
    Originally posted by Wootloops


    2. Combat is boring and takes little skill (Yes, WoW’s combat does take more skill; much more in fact. And I’ve gotten Gladiator so I have experience):

    -Attacking consists of mostly auto-attacking (Been the same on Guardian, Mesmer, and Elementalist in both PvP and PvE), and this is due to a mix of the following:

    -Not enough attack skills.

    -Not enough attack skills with a small enough CD.

    -Not enough attack skills with enough superiority over auto-attack to be worth the risk of using.

    -Not enough skills overall (In WoW I have about 35-40 skill keybinds and I use each and every one of them).

     

    Your perception of "skill" does not reflect mine though. To me WoW PvP is a memory game more than anything, you need only to remember a huge amount of abilities thoroughly. You cant even use most of your abilities without a target, and when you do have a target and use your ability it's always a homing attack with calculated success %, unless AoE.

     

    I think the GW2 approach, while it could have been executed perhaps a bit better, takes more skill since it's actually YOU who determines if you hit or miss this time, you can use all your abilities without a target and it's up to you to make sure you hit, and up to your target to try and avoid the attack. All that is calculated by the game in WoW, and avoiding attacks is a matter of ability usage depending on your class = memory game. That's why GW2 has less abilities in your hotbar since this time the combat is more mobile and action-like.

     

    Which one of the combat styles you like better, is ofcourse preference, the combat systems are actually so much different that neither can be played with the other games style very well, and the other will be more fun than the other for every individual. I personally like to be more in control of the combat and that's why GW2 wins, WoW control is based on abilities purely, GW2 control is based on movement also.

     

    I do however agree with the red parts with you, because it's simply true and not really a matter of opinion. It's not true on every class, like elementalist has a ton of powerful or useful abilities but I rarely see people in PvP to use every element and the full spectrum of ele-abilities. Engineer has a ton of powerful abilities through kits that many ignore and dont use.

     

    But then there's very powerful classes like warrior which however has a lot less actual variety and they might become a bit dull to play since often the autoattack + spammable dps button seems just enough most of the time. Best example is the thief, it's the ultimate one button wonder profession which has ridiculous efficiency through just one or two abilities. I dont expect this to be the case forever though.

     

    What comes to the competitive ladders and that stuff, yeah, especially game modes should be more, time will tell what they add. Easy to check back in after major updates since there's no monthly fee.

  • Master10KMaster10K LondonPosts: 3,065Member
    Originally posted by Wootloops
    Originally posted by BadSpock

    That vid was awesome - dude is a great player. Gave me some great build ideas... funny you think you play a class enough to "get it" and then see something like that and it's like a light bulb.. like, holy crap I didn't even think of doing a Meditation focused build.

    If you notice, he's mostly autoattacking, and apparently he's really good.

    So the only thought you had after watching that vid I linked, was that he was hitting skill 1 a lot.

     

     

    To think you actually consider yourself a skilled player. Well I'm done here. Going back to this skill-less game with it's 10 skill hot-bar.

    image

  • WootloopsWootloops Melville, NYPosts: 165Member
    Originally posted by Master10K

    So the only thought you had after watching that vid I linked, was that he was hitting skill 1 a lot.

    To think you actually consider yourself a skilled player. Well I'm done here. Going back to this skill-less game with it's 10 skill hot-bar.

    Yeah he dodged a bunch, but it's not much different than me knowing when to use my 5 different damage mitigation skills in WoW. It just has a roll animation.

  • eisenryueisenryu Acworth, GAPosts: 157Member

    [mod edit]

     

    But on a less GW2-tholic note. I do agree with your points. The pve and sPvP separation is my biggest gear grinder. I dont want my spvp to feel like a mnigame or a waiting game. I have LoL and Smite for that.  Also, inability to efficiently level through WvWvW and the fact that mesmer's Mind Stab has been shit on for pvp... but those are unrelated to the current topic..

    World of Warcraft is the original creation of God. Real Life is in fact a WoW clone.

    image
  • alkarionlogalkarionlog SPosts: 1,125Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Dalano
    Originally posted by Wootloops
    Originally posted by tkoreaper

    Please, List all your keybinds in WoW.

    So you played 3 of the moot faceroll classes for pvp, good for you. Try an Engineer.

     

    image
    From Keybinds

     

    I counted 35 ability keybinds (36 if you count mount), and I should really keybind my weapon swaps, which would add 2 more.

    Stock UI hotbars with only a handful of macros? DK or not, most serious WoW pvpers have way more complicated setups than this. 

    Which is one of the things I find refreshing about GW2 spvp; build choices are real rather than a mirage. The limitation of hotkeys requires you to think and plan much more since you can't bind every tool to your nostromo.

    should I mention I use over 50 keybinds on Aion? not consideranting the consumables I click on because it have a 30 min of durantion.

    FOR HONOR, FOR FREEDOM.... and for some money.
    image

  • slickbizzleslickbizzle Matthews, NCPosts: 464Member
    Originally posted by Fadedbomb

    So you're saying because GW2 =/= WoW that WoW is better?

     

    This is the most subjective post i've seen in awhile (short of that top 9 things GW2 does better than other MMO's thread).

     

    Not trying to be a jerk, but that is exactly how your thread came off after reading it.

     

    That's the beauty of WoW player logic.  If GW2 was like Warcraft, it would be called a clone and shot down. Now, since it's NOT like Warcraft, it sucks.

     

     

     

     

     

  • CommoXCommoX Tucson, AZPosts: 80Member Uncommon

    You do realize that once you set your auto attack, which can be set to different abilities by the way, it keeps attacking without being pressed while you do other things, so the ability also keeps flashing, giving the appearance of a player pressing that button over and over again. The auto attack is very filler, but as in the video, that player is on most of his abilities as soon as he can when they are up, though it is all very situational. You would not want to blow an ability just to have someone dodge or move right out of it and wait down that cool down again. Have to think tactically here, as there are not an assortment of kill buttons at your disposal.

    I play the Guardian as well, and since mitigation is not the name of the game in GW2, avoidance is, you're comparing apples to watermelons in a sense.

    Instead of having every ability in a crazy half screened bar graph, I actually have to tactically choose my abilities based on what I am doing and at times a situation in said scenario. PVE in both games is roughly the same, fights are scripted, mobs to certain things at certain times, etc etc, the only difference here is you are the only one who can save yourself from standing somewhere you should not have been.

    PVE open world, 2 Handed sword and any secondary weapon, as I do most open world content as AOE damage with a group. Run my Asura racial aoe, pull out Big Perm to keep the champs busy while we wail on em and aoe and control groups of mobs all day long.

    WvW I end up running a staff/2Handed sword and hammer run. Again, the hammer is very, how would you say, one trick pony ish, for my group make up. Our thief pulls people off walls, I trap players with the hammer gt and then we control the players movement and take them out. Staff as support and Sword as my weapon of choice.

    Dungeons I run a sword/board and sword/mace swap. Mace to help the group, sword to stay in the fight and dish some damage.

    Having 10 actions, and ability and weapon choice only controlling 8(Heal and auto attack, or your elite skill) of those bars makes putting a lot of thought into what you are going to use important. I would think understanding how to steer and change your play style around given situations would be far superior than having all your tools thrown at you so you can mash away until something works. (Inherently we all mash away until we figure out what works anyway.)

    Once you got your macros down in WoW, be it for raiding or PVP you basically spammed 1-2 buttons, depending on how intense your macros got and watch a meter or a countdown timer somewhere.

    In GW2 you have to watch what the enemy(player or NPC) is doing in order to counter, move, reflect or negate the attack. In WoW automation has removed that player element.

    Something I would die to see change in GW2 is that your second five abilities change with your weapon swap, so you have a set of abilities per weapon, as some weapons are better suited per situation and some of those abilities go hand in hand with those situations.

  • RokurgeptaRokurgepta wallington, NJPosts: 2,136Member
    Originally posted by SteeJanz
    Originally posted by Wootloops
    Originally posted by tkoreaper

    Please, List all your keybinds in WoW.

    So you played 3 of the moot faceroll classes for pvp, good for you. Try an Engineer.

     

    image
    From Keybinds

     

    I counted 35 ability keybinds (36 if you count mount), and I should really keybind my weapon swaps, which would add 2 more.

    I think it's cool that you like WOW better.  There is nothing wrong with that but, I just wanted to point out the misconception you have about how may skills there are available in GW2.  For example, my engineer:

    Pistol Shield build

    3- pistol skills

    4- Shield skills 2 - but the become 2 other skills when I use them to get a different effect.  So its 4.

    Heal skill

    5- Med Pack changes all my weapon skills to 5 different skills

    1- F-key skill

    Utility Skills

    5- Elixir gun skills

    1- f-Key skill

    5- Bomb Kit skills

    1- F-key skill

    1- Elixir skill

    Elite Skill

    1- Elite skill

    Under Water Skills

    5 - Harpoon skills

    1- Heal Skill

    4- F-key Skills

    5 - Grenade Kit Skills

    1- turret skill

    1- Elixir skill

    1- Elite skill

    Total skills = 45

    It looks like I have more than you.  Weird.  :)

     All you need is autoattack, OP said so.

  • RokurgeptaRokurgepta wallington, NJPosts: 2,136Member
    Originally posted by Wootloops
    Originally posted by Master10K

    So the only thought you had after watching that vid I linked, was that he was hitting skill 1 a lot.

    To think you actually consider yourself a skilled player. Well I'm done here. Going back to this skill-less game with it's 10 skill hot-bar.

    Yeah he dodged a bunch, but it's not much different than me knowing when to use my 5 different damage mitigation skills in WoW. It just has a roll animation.

     Made a new name today just to be a WOW lover and a GW2 hater? Congrats on the effort.

  • WootloopsWootloops Melville, NYPosts: 165Member

    Having been playing around with swapping through all my elements as a 22 Ele with daggers, I've found it's the most damage efficient to merely stay in fire and auto attack until 2 is up and then autoattack more. At least with Mesmer swapping weps aided my damage, and it only had one swap option, not four. And the uselessness of the other elements will only get worse as I level and have to allocate traits and specialize. The utilities, mind you, will likely be worth swapping through in PvP, but I'll mostly be autoattacking no matter which element I'm in (Fire the least), leading to boredom.

     

    Perhaps other ele weapons will fare better. We'll see.

  • SteeJanzSteeJanz Gladstone, MOPosts: 332Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Rokurgepta
    Originally posted by SteeJanz
    Originally posted by Wootloops
    Originally posted by tkoreaper

    Please, List all your keybinds in WoW.

    So you played 3 of the moot faceroll classes for pvp, good for you. Try an Engineer.

     

    image
    From Keybinds

     

    I counted 35 ability keybinds (36 if you count mount), and I should really keybind my weapon swaps, which would add 2 more.

    I think it's cool that you like WOW better.  There is nothing wrong with that but, I just wanted to point out the misconception you have about how may skills there are available in GW2.  For example, my engineer:

    Pistol Shield build

    3- pistol skills

    4- Shield skills 2 - but the become 2 other skills when I use them to get a different effect.  So its 4.

    Heal skill

    5- Med Pack changes all my weapon skills to 5 different skills

    1- F-key skill

    Utility Skills

    5- Elixir gun skills

    1- f-Key skill

    5- Bomb Kit skills

    1- F-key skill

    1- Elixir skill

    Elite Skill

    1- Elite skill

    Under Water Skills

    5 - Harpoon skills

    1- Heal Skill

    4- F-key Skills

    5 - Grenade Kit Skills

    1- turret skill

    1- Elixir skill

    1- Elite skill

    Total skills = 45

    It looks like I have more than you.  Weird.  :)

     All you need is autoattack, OP said so.

    He also said that you are better if you have more skills so I am more pro then him cuz i got more.  He has a feeble 36.   pfftt... I didn't even go with a flame thrower kit that would have given me 4 more.

  • Calhoun619Calhoun619 Lynnwood, WAPosts: 126Member
    Originally posted by Wootloops

    When compared to WoW:

     

    In general:

    1. Not enough sandbox elements.

     

     

    Just sigh...another day of you guys driving me nuts to no end

  • NBlitzNBlitz ZwollePosts: 1,904Member
    Originally posted by SteeJanz
    Originally posted by Wootloops
    Originally posted by tkoreaper

    Please, List all your keybinds in WoW.

    So you played 3 of the moot faceroll classes for pvp, good for you. Try an Engineer.

     

    image
    From Keybinds

     

    I counted 35 ability keybinds (36 if you count mount), and I should really keybind my weapon swaps, which would add 2 more.

    I think it's cool that you like WOW better.  There is nothing wrong with that but, I just wanted to point out the misconception you have about how may skills there are available in GW2.  For example, my engineer:

    Pistol Shield build

    3- pistol skills

    4- Shield skills 2 - but the become 2 other skills when I use them to get a different effect.  So its 4.

    Heal skill

    5- Med Pack changes all my weapon skills to 5 different skills

    1- F-key skill

    Utility Skills

    5- Elixir gun skills

    1- f-Key skill

    5- Bomb Kit skills

    1- F-key skill

    1- Elixir skill

    Elite Skill

    1- Elite skill

    Under Water Skills

    5 - Harpoon skills

    1- Heal Skill

    4- F-key Skills

    5 - Grenade Kit Skills

    1- turret skill

    1- Elixir skill

    1- Elite skill

    Total skills = 45

    It looks like I have more than you.  Weird.  :)

    You forgot one pretty big mechanic: the punishing cooldown system.

  • Calhoun619Calhoun619 Lynnwood, WAPosts: 126Member
    Originally posted by slickbizzle
    Originally posted by Fadedbomb

    So you're saying because GW2 =/= WoW that WoW is better?

     

    This is the most subjective post i've seen in awhile (short of that top 9 things GW2 does better than other MMO's thread).

     

    Not trying to be a jerk, but that is exactly how your thread came off after reading it.

     

    That's the beauty of WoW player logic.  If GW2 was like Warcraft, it would be called a clone and shot down. Now, since it's NOT like Warcraft, it sucks.

     

     

     

     

     

     Wow someone took all my feeling towards the subject and wrapped them up in a nice neat 3 sentence package. Perfect. Thank you.

  • WootloopsWootloops Melville, NYPosts: 165Member
    Originally posted by Calhoun619

     Wow someone took all my feeling towards the subject and wrapped them up in a nice neat 3 sentence package. Perfect. Thank you.

    The logic of those sentances is tantamount to me telling you about my new game involving sitting around doing nothing, and then when you don't like my new game, I proclaim that Guild Wars 2 players just think that anything which isn't GW2 sucks.

    But fear not, as you'll see my great truth in time.

  • WootloopsWootloops Melville, NYPosts: 165Member
    Originally posted by Kost
    [mod edit]

    Don't be jelly.

  • chakalakachakalaka Missoula, MTPosts: 287Member Uncommon

    Wait OP, you're a pvp'er  yet you find GUILD WARS lacking? I think it's because everything is balanced and you cannot handle being overgeared for wow pvp. Balanced pvp does scare a lot of people away especially the guild wars community, we're creative with our pvp builds. bye!

     

  • WootloopsWootloops Melville, NYPosts: 165Member
    Originally posted by chakalaka

    Wait OP, you're a pvp'er  yet you find GUILD WARS lacking? I think it's because everything is balanced and you cannot handle being overgeared for wow pvp. Balanced pvp does scare a lot of people away especially the guild wars community, we're creative with our pvp builds. bye!

     

    It's hard not to find spamming auto-attack lacking. And it probably takes less effort to get max geared in WoW for PvP than it does in GW2 for WvW. And WoW is actually probably the most balanced MMO out there. Havn't placed enough GW2 to draw conclusions on its balance yet though.

  • loulakiloulaki PatrasPosts: 918Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Wootloops

    These are my main issues with Guild Wars 2, and why WoW is going to remain my main game:

    please mail me your stuff : )

    image

This discussion has been closed.