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Love the game, but ability progression is the weakest part

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  • bcbullybcbully Westland, MIPosts: 8,261Member Uncommon
    Perfect example; I just hit 54. You know what I got? 1% increase to boon duration and 40 toughness... That's weaksauce.
  • VolkonVolkon Sterling, VAPosts: 3,788Member
    Originally posted by bcbully
    Perfect example; I just hit 54. You know what I got? 1% increase to boon duration and 40 toughness... That's weaksauce.

    You think that's weak? OK... tell me what you're going to get at level 55.

    Oderint, dum metuant.
    image

  • TalulaRoseTalulaRose Long Island, NYPosts: 480Member Uncommon

    I think they realized that a barrier to people playing GW1 was that they had a very in depth skill system and the current market of players does not want to spend the time it takes to fully grasp. So they streamlined it compared to what it was before to sell the game to a wider audience. It also lends itself to making PvP easier to balance but I never saw anyone complaining about imbalance of skills in GW1.

     

     

  • NikkitaNikkita ParisPosts: 790Member
    Originally posted by Volkon
    Originally posted by Nikkita
    Originally posted by wowfan1996
    Originally posted by Nikkita

    61 abilities, 18 talents. What OP is saing is that ability progression goes all the way till 90. in GW2 is stops around 40. 

    You don't stop getting trait points and unlocking utilitiy/elite skills around 40 in GW2. Please, stop spreading misinformation.

    The GW2 skill system is fine. Different != bad.

    Maybe put some effort in reading OP? i bet you didn't even read it because we are talking about active skill progression not passive traits.  Are you even playing this game?

     

    I'm not convinced you are to be honest. You can't unlock all your utilities by level 40 (which you edited out rather quickly, but I saw it... ). You won't have them all unlocked until after you hit 80. As a matter of fact, with two 30 point elites and what... six or so ten point elites, that's a good 120 levels equivalent of experience just to unlock them.

    I edited it because i play a warrior so utility would be wrong term... This is me at lvl 30, see my slot skills? only one elite is unavilable to me rest i can unlock all by collecting as many skill challenges i want. All i have to do is to explore all other zones that i missed. It will be long before 80 and all i am left is with passives.

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  • TheIronLegionTheIronLegion Columbia, SCPosts: 269Member
    Originally posted by Sylvarii
    Originally posted by botrytis
    There were many useless skills and elite skills n GW1. I think A.Net wanted all the skills to actually do something, rather than something not useful - remember "weaken Armor' for necros really did nothing until they patched it WAY later.
     
    I think the trick is to make sure you understand the skills and how they can be used together. It is not a 'gimped' system but one in which you actually have to make choices and live with them. I think it is more realistic compared to WoW or Rift - I mean if you use a dagger, mace, axe or sword in Rift - the skill used is the same. That is unrealistic.
     
    I do not think they will add in more skills as they did in GW1 and found that balancing the was the hardest thing to do. I may be wrong on this point but that is what A.Net said a long time ago.

    I'm sick to the back teeth of the defenders using lines like this,it's another stealth learn how to play line.

    The GW2 thief is a boring train wreck when you compare it to the Burglar class in LOTRO.

    Pretty sure its not a L2P line. He's just stating that GW2 requires that you know your class before just diving into something and that a better understanding of it will help you grasp why traits are important as well as the other systems. And he's right it is more realistic. If I pick up a bow I should be able to use backstab. It should be a completely different skillset just like in reality. Though I can imagine someone trying to stab a guy with a bow. And the choices you make skillwise you actually have to live with. What's so different from GW2's system of a locked in set of skills and WoW or Aion or Rift's locked set of skills. Once you've got those skills on your bar...they generally don't tend to move whether the game mechanics allow it or not. You decide a build and that's it unless you decide to respec. So you run around using the same skills for who knows how long...just like you do in GW2. So what's the difference? I see none. Let me put some quotes in there."I" see none.

    image

  • grimalgrimal Stamford, CTPosts: 2,873Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by TalulaRose

    I think they realized that a barrier to people playing GW1 was that they had a very in depth skill system and the current market of players does not want to spend the time it takes to fully grasp. So they streamlined it compared to what it was before to sell the game to a wider audience. It also lends itself to making PvP easier to balance but I never saw anyone complaining about imbalance of skills in GW1.

     

     

    I think they were just lazy and cheap.  Figured they could put the manpower and funds elsewhere and perhaps didnt realize how much people liked the gw1 skill system.

    If the argument is that they wanted it to be more streamlined, why not offer the option to use the default ANET recommended builds or choose a more advanced mode of customizing?  Could achieve both then.

    Edit:  This makes me think more and more the game concept was built around the low level cap and that getting to level 80 was more of an afterthought in the design implementation.

  • NikkitaNikkita ParisPosts: 790Member
    Originally posted by wowfan1996
    Originally posted by Nikkita
    Maybe put some effort in reading OP? i bet you didn't even read it because we are talking about active skill progression not passive traits.  Are you even playing this game?

    I did read the OP but I think your assessment is fundamentally wrong. Traits are important as they define your playstyle and you get to select a traits-based skill every 10 leves. Plus you still unlock new utilitiy skills - those are active even if not weapon-based.

     

    Ok lets try this again. No one is ignoring passive traits. That is not what OP was saying. When he says he feels lack of progression beyond lvl 40 he meant in terms of active skills that you can equip on your hotbar. Something to look forward to and click on.

    Even OP mentioned that the only thing to look forward is passive skills so he definitely didn't ignore those.

    image


    Bite Me

  • wowfan1996wowfan1996 NonePosts: 719Member
    Originally posted by Sylvarii
      I'm sick to the back teeth of the defenders using lines like this,it's another stealth learn how to play line.

    The GW2 thief is a boring train wreck when you compare it to the Burglar class in LOTRO.By level 20 i really was bored out of my skull,i really could not go on any longer with that class/profession.

    So you admit that you've been told numerous times that your problem is L2P (which it is) and also admit you refuse to L2P and still you come back to these forums... looking for what exactly?

    MMORPG genre is dead. Long live MMOCS (Massively Multiplayer Online Cash Shop).

  • YamotaYamota LondonPosts: 6,620Member
    Yeah I agree, after level 40 there is no ability progression left. So the rest of the 40 or so levels will be for what, gear only? Very weak...
  • VolkonVolkon Sterling, VAPosts: 3,788Member
    Originally posted by Nikkita
    Originally posted by Volkon
    Originally posted by Nikkita
    Originally posted by wowfan1996
    Originally posted by Nikkita

    61 abilities, 18 talents. What OP is saing is that ability progression goes all the way till 90. in GW2 is stops around 40. 

    You don't stop getting trait points and unlocking utilitiy/elite skills around 40 in GW2. Please, stop spreading misinformation.

    The GW2 skill system is fine. Different != bad.

    Maybe put some effort in reading OP? i bet you didn't even read it because we are talking about active skill progression not passive traits.  Are you even playing this game?

     

    I'm not convinced you are to be honest. You can't unlock all your utilities by level 40 (which you edited out rather quickly, but I saw it... ). You won't have them all unlocked until after you hit 80. As a matter of fact, with two 30 point elites and what... six or so ten point elites, that's a good 120 levels equivalent of experience just to unlock them.

    I edited it because i play a warrior so utility would be wrong term... This is me at lvl 30, see my slot skills? only one elite is unavilable to me rest i can unlock all by collecting as many skill challenges i want. All i have to do is to explore all other zones that i missed. It will be long before 80 and all i am left is with passives.

    Just picking nits here, but you realize to unlock all those you're going to need to level up in order to be successful in the higher level zones, right? There aren't enough skill points available in the zones you have access to to unlock all them. There are, at last count, 202 skill challenges in the entire game, which is enough to unlock all the utilities, but they're spread all the way through Orr.

    Oderint, dum metuant.
    image

  • grimalgrimal Stamford, CTPosts: 2,873Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Yamota
    Yeah I agree, after level 40 there is no ability progression left. So the rest of the 40 or so levels will be for what, gear only? Very weak...

    Not in a game where gear doesn't matter.  You're supposed to have fun just exploring.

  • OnomicOnomic TønsbergPosts: 196Member
    Originally posted by Nikkita
    Originally posted by Volkon
    Originally posted by Nikkita
    Originally posted by MikeJezZ

    http://www.wowhead.com/talent

     

    Yeah cus the MoP talent tree looks awesome.

     

    Wait, isnt it somewhat like the GW2?

     

    You pick some spells for your bar? Hmm, interesting.

    61 abilities, 18 talents. What OP is saing is that ability progression goes all the way till 90. in GW2 is stops around 40. 

     

    If that's what he's saying then he's full of crap. You don't unlock your last trait point until level 80, and if you don't think traits significantly affect how you play you may want to sit down and really take a good look at the system. Simply unlocking the major trait where my clones cripple foes when destroyed had changed how my mesmer plays, let alone others.

     

    Yes, you have a set number of skills available based on weapons, and a larger set of utilities. When you combine them with traits, though, is when you really see the complexity of the system. Suddenly those skills you unlocked on your wepaons do a whole lot more.

    He is talking about active skills not passive traits.

    Right now GW1, TSW and even Rift gives you a lot more option in skill variation. What if i want to stick to only one weapon? are you telling me i should be penalized in a MMO which says play how you want because i prefer hammer as a warrior?

    Yes you get utlities  but the skills for your weapon are locked for you. It is like someone else decided the weapon skills for me and i have no choice but to stick with those.

    Aparently anet belive you should, but to be honest this is like asking why you can just use one skill in dungeons in other mmorpg. Its the skill you want to use and why should you be punishd for it.

    As for the op i agree, i dont want more active skills but i would love to be able to choose more for myself.

  • UtukuMoonUtukuMoon ParisPosts: 1,066Member
    Originally posted by wowfan1996
    Originally posted by Sylvarii
      I'm sick to the back teeth of the defenders using lines like this,it's another stealth learn how to play line.

    The GW2 thief is a boring train wreck when you compare it to the Burglar class in LOTRO.By level 20 i really was bored out of my skull,i really could not go on any longer with that class/profession.

    So you admit that you've been told numerous times that your problem is L2P (which it is) and also admit you refuse to L2P and still you come back to these forums... looking for what exactly?

     

    I haven't admited anything,are you reading the right thread?

     

  • YamotaYamota LondonPosts: 6,620Member
    Originally posted by grimal
    Originally posted by Yamota
    Yeah I agree, after level 40 there is no ability progression left. So the rest of the 40 or so levels will be for what, gear only? Very weak...

    Not in a game where gear doesn't matter.  You're supposed to have fun just exploring.

    I am not talking about fun or things to do, I am talking specifically about character progression. Why have 80 levels when you will have all your activeable skills by level 40? So the rest of the level progression is for gear and passive skills only?

  • NikkitaNikkita ParisPosts: 790Member
    Originally posted by Volkon
    Just picking nits here, but you realize to unlock all those you're going to need to level up in order to be successful in the higher level zones, right? There aren't enough skill points available in the zones you have access to to unlock all them. There are, at last count, 202 skill challenges in the entire game, which is enough to unlock all the utilities, but they're spread all the way through Orr.

    Originally posted by Pigozz

    I think you all know what I mean

    The weapon skills all learned around first 7 levels

    And pretty much all utility abillities learned by level 40 (if you grind challenges)

    I think OP said pretty much all. He never said all of them.

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    Bite Me

  • RoinRoin Baltimore, MDPosts: 2,926Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Nikkita
    Originally posted by wowfan1996
    Originally posted by Nikkita
    Maybe put some effort in reading OP? i bet you didn't even read it because we are talking about active skill progression not passive traits.  Are you even playing this game?

    I did read the OP but I think your assessment is fundamentally wrong. Traits are important as they define your playstyle and you get to select a traits-based skill every 10 leves. Plus you still unlock new utilitiy skills - those are active even if not weapon-based.

     

    Ok lets try this again. No one is ignoring passive traits. That is not what OP was saying. When ge says he feels lack of progression beyond lvl 40 he meant in terms of active skills that you can equip on your hotbar. Something to look forward to and click on.

    Even OP mentioned that the only thing to look forward is passive skills so he definitely didn't ignore those.

    You might as well give up this argument.  There seems to be an impossible to fix error between what you are saying, and what they are understanding it as.  I do agree with the OP though, as I've been at 47 now for more then a week.  There is no pull for me to play the game because there is nothing to look forward to.  I like being a GS warrior, but fact of the matter is I had all my GS skill before even hitting level 5.  There are no new ones.  There are no AA/Traits/Talents/Skill Upgrades/etc that will drastically change and/or add new ones. 

    In War - Victory.
    In Peace - Vigilance.
    In Death - Sacrifice.

  • VolkonVolkon Sterling, VAPosts: 3,788Member
    Originally posted by Yamota
    Yeah I agree, after level 40 there is no ability progression left. So the rest of the 40 or so levels will be for what, gear only? Very weak...

    Again with the level 40 crap. Someone made this up and people are licking it up like it's gospel.

     

    You will not have unlocked all your utilities before you reach level 80. You won't have unlocked all your trait points until level 80.

    Oderint, dum metuant.
    image

  • grimalgrimal Stamford, CTPosts: 2,873Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Yamota
    Originally posted by grimal
    Originally posted by Yamota
    Yeah I agree, after level 40 there is no ability progression left. So the rest of the 40 or so levels will be for what, gear only? Very weak...

    Not in a game where gear doesn't matter.  You're supposed to have fun just exploring.

    I am not talking about fun or things to do, I am talking specifically about character progression. Why have 80 levels when you will have all your activeable skills by level 40? So the rest of the level progression is for gear and passive skills only?

    Apparently.  Again, I think the level 80 cap wasn't thought through and through for the design.

  • TheIronLegionTheIronLegion Columbia, SCPosts: 269Member
    Originally posted by Volkon
    Originally posted by Nikkita
    Originally posted by Volkon
    Originally posted by Nikkita
    Originally posted by wowfan1996
    Originally posted by Nikkita

    61 abilities, 18 talents. What OP is saing is that ability progression goes all the way till 90. in GW2 is stops around 40. 

    You don't stop getting trait points and unlocking utilitiy/elite skills around 40 in GW2. Please, stop spreading misinformation.

    The GW2 skill system is fine. Different != bad.

    Maybe put some effort in reading OP? i bet you didn't even read it because we are talking about active skill progression not passive traits.  Are you even playing this game?

     

    I'm not convinced you are to be honest. You can't unlock all your utilities by level 40 (which you edited out rather quickly, but I saw it... ). You won't have them all unlocked until after you hit 80. As a matter of fact, with two 30 point elites and what... six or so ten point elites, that's a good 120 levels equivalent of experience just to unlock them.

    I edited it because i play a warrior so utility would be wrong term... This is me at lvl 30, see my slot skills? only one elite is unavilable to me rest i can unlock all by collecting as many skill challenges i want. All i have to do is to explore all other zones that i missed. It will be long before 80 and all i am left is with passives.

    Just picking nits here, but you realize to unlock all those you're going to need to level up in order to be successful in the higher level zones, right? There aren't enough skill points available in the zones you have access to to unlock all them. There are, at last count, 202 skill challenges in the entire game, which is enough to unlock all the utilities, but they're spread all the way through Orr.

    Hey let's see those traits! Or do those just not exist...obviously not to most people who don't understand what they do.

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  • AdiarisAdiaris RomePosts: 381Member
    Originally posted by Nikkita
    Originally posted by wowfan1996
    Originally posted by Nikkita
    Maybe put some effort in reading OP? i bet you didn't even read it because we are talking about active skill progression not passive traits.  Are you even playing this game?

    I did read the OP but I think your assessment is fundamentally wrong. Traits are important as they define your playstyle and you get to select a traits-based skill every 10 leves. Plus you still unlock new utilitiy skills - those are active even if not weapon-based.

     

    Ok lets try this again. No one is ignoring passive traits. That is not what OP was saying. When ge says he feels lack of progression beyond lvl 40 he meant in terms of active skills that you can equip on your hotbar. Something to look forward to and click on.

    Even OP mentioned that the only thing to look forward is passive skills so he definitely didn't ignore those.

    No, I'm pretty sure we get that. I think a number of us have issue understanding why this is, in fact, an issue at all. I use more skills actively in GW2 than any other game I've ever played, it doesn't really matter to me when I got them tbh. I don't need a fake active skill progression system to keep me going, I need an interesting and varied skill set to keep playing, amongst other things. Which GW2 has, if people don't see that... well then.. not much can be done!

    That said, I'm sure they'll add more wpns, elites and utilities, though I doubt they'll add alternative skills to current sets, but who knows. 

    But really, like most of these very specific threads, one change - even one you really want - is not going to change the outlook of the game for you, or it might for 5 seconds. You either pretty much like the whole package and whatever details you don't like u can live with, or you don't. (and yes this goes for any game). 

    Funnily enough, none of the things I have an issue with have been brought up on these forums, but they're prevalent in threads on official forums and my guild.

  • NikkitaNikkita ParisPosts: 790Member
    Originally posted by Adiaris
    Originally posted by Nikkita
    Originally posted by wowfan1996
    Originally posted by Nikkita
    Maybe put some effort in reading OP? i bet you didn't even read it because we are talking about active skill progression not passive traits.  Are you even playing this game?

    I did read the OP but I think your assessment is fundamentally wrong. Traits are important as they define your playstyle and you get to select a traits-based skill every 10 leves. Plus you still unlock new utilitiy skills - those are active even if not weapon-based.

     

    Ok lets try this again. No one is ignoring passive traits. That is not what OP was saying. When ge says he feels lack of progression beyond lvl 40 he meant in terms of active skills that you can equip on your hotbar. Something to look forward to and click on.

    Even OP mentioned that the only thing to look forward is passive skills so he definitely didn't ignore those.

    No, I'm pretty sure we get that. I think a number of us have issue understanding why this is, in fact, an issue at all. I use more skills actively in GW2 than any other game I've ever played, it doesn't really matter to me when I got them tbh. I don't need a fake active skill progression system to keep me going, I need an interesting and varied skill set to keep playing, amongst other things. Which GW2 has, if people don't see that... well then.. not much can be done!

    That said, I'm sure they'll add more wpns, elites and utilities, though I doubt they'll add alternative skills to current sets, but who knows. 

    But really, like most of these very specific threads, one change - even one you really want - is not going to change the outlook of the game for you, or it might for 5 seconds. You either pretty much like the whole package and whatever details you don't like u can live with, or you don't. (and yes this goes for any game). 

    Funnily enough, none of the things I have an issue with have been brought up on these forums, but they're prevalent in threads on official forums and my guild.

    Because people feel progression in different ways? some enjoy it with levels, other like to unlock new skills as they hit max, for others it is fun watchign their stats go up..etc..etc.

    And for someone like me who played GW1 for 5 years, skills in GW2 feel restrictive and limited. So i am one of those hoping that number of skills will increase a few months.

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    Bite Me

  • VolkonVolkon Sterling, VAPosts: 3,788Member
    Originally posted by Nikkita
    Originally posted by Volkon
    Just picking nits here, but you realize to unlock all those you're going to need to level up in order to be successful in the higher level zones, right? There aren't enough skill points available in the zones you have access to to unlock all them. There are, at last count, 202 skill challenges in the entire game, which is enough to unlock all the utilities, but they're spread all the way through Orr.

    Originally posted by Pigozz

    I think you all know what I mean

    The weapon skills all learned around first 7 levels

    And pretty much all utility abillities learned by level 40 (if you grind challenges)

    I think OP said pretty much all. He never said all of them.

    He said it... doesn't mean he's right. The weapon skills you can learn all early, that's not in dispute. The utilities will take you well past level 40, and by ignoring traits he ignores a significant part of the build process, which is disingenuous at best.

    Oderint, dum metuant.
    image

  • AdiarisAdiaris RomePosts: 381Member
    Originally posted by Nikkita
    Originally posted by Adiaris
    Originally posted by Nikkita
    Originally posted by wowfan1996
    Originally posted by Nikkita
    Maybe put some effort in reading OP? i bet you didn't even read it because we are talking about active skill progression not passive traits.  Are you even playing this game?

    I did read the OP but I think your assessment is fundamentally wrong. Traits are important as they define your playstyle and you get to select a traits-based skill every 10 leves. Plus you still unlock new utilitiy skills - those are active even if not weapon-based.

     

    Ok lets try this again. No one is ignoring passive traits. That is not what OP was saying. When ge says he feels lack of progression beyond lvl 40 he meant in terms of active skills that you can equip on your hotbar. Something to look forward to and click on.

    Even OP mentioned that the only thing to look forward is passive skills so he definitely didn't ignore those.

    No, I'm pretty sure we get that. I think a number of us have issue understanding why this is, in fact, an issue at all. I use more skills actively in GW2 than any other game I've ever played, it doesn't really matter to me when I got them tbh. I don't need a fake active skill progression system to keep me going, I need an interesting and varied skill set to keep playing, amongst other things. Which GW2 has, if people don't see that... well then.. not much can be done!

    That said, I'm sure they'll add more wpns, elites and utilities, though I doubt they'll add alternative skills to current sets, but who knows. 

    But really, like most of these very specific threads, one change - even one you really want - is not going to change the outlook of the game for you, or it might for 5 seconds. You either pretty much like the whole package and whatever details you don't like u can live with, or you don't. (and yes this goes for any game). 

    Funnily enough, none of the things I have an issue with have been brought up on these forums, but they're prevalent in threads on official forums and my guild.

    Because people feel progression in different ways? some enjoy it with levels, other like to unlock new skills as they hit max, for others it is fun watchign their stats go up..etc..etc.

    And for someone like me who played GW1 for 5 years, skills in GW2 feel restrictive and limited. So i am one of those hoping that number of skills will increase a few months.

    Clearly. My real question is, why is this progression such a big deal to you people? Is it really changing your enjoyment of the game? I really don't get what it is that's being said, sorry, but I'm the person that dinged 80 thinking he was dinging 79, that's how hard I look at the levels. 

  • wowfan1996wowfan1996 NonePosts: 719Member
    Originally posted by Nikkita

    Ok lets try this again. No one is ignoring passive traits. That is not what OP was saying. When ge says he feels lack of progression beyond lvl 40 he meant in terms of active skills that you can equip on your hotbar. Something to look forward to and click on.

    Even OP mentioned that the only thing to look forward is passive skills so he definitely didn't ignore those.

    Active weapon skills aren't everything. First, there are utilites and elite skills. Second, you need to consider combos including cross-class ones. Third, you have unique class mechanics (Engineer has weapon kits, Thief has Steal that grives semi-random abilities, Mesmer has mantras and several ways to destroy illusions for additional effects, Nerco has various pets, etc.).

    Also don't forget weapon sets. All in all you have access to 15-20 active skills at any time plus combos. Yes, you get all your weapon skills rather early but so what? In any MMO you spend most of your play time at max level not getting new skills either.

    MMORPG genre is dead. Long live MMOCS (Massively Multiplayer Online Cash Shop).

  • grimalgrimal Stamford, CTPosts: 2,873Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Adiaris

    No, I'm pretty sure we get that. I think a number of us have issue understanding why this is, in fact, an issue at all. I use more skills actively in GW2 than any other game I've ever played, it doesn't really matter to me when I got them tbh. I don't need a fake active skill progression system to keep me going, I need an interesting and varied skill set to keep playing, amongst other things. Which GW2 has, if people don't see that... well then.. not much can be done!

    That said, I'm sure they'll add more wpns, elites and utilities, though I doubt they'll add alternative skills to current sets, but who knows. 

    But really, like most of these very specific threads, one change - even one you really want - is not going to change the outlook of the game for you, or it might for 5 seconds. You either pretty much like the whole package and whatever details you don't like u can live with, or you don't. (and yes this goes for any game). 

    Funnily enough, none of the things I have an issue with have been brought up on these forums, but they're prevalent in threads on official forums and my guild.

    I don't agree with this.  We all have said we like this game and are just offering up criticism; why does the game's features have to be set in stone?  MMOs have always been a work in progress so to speak...this black or white issue with game's features is really just a defense mechanism to deflect the issue at hand.

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