Originally posted by Leethe Honestly? Theere just isn't time between ressing, running, healing, buffing and laying down combo fields. For a game that has no community I sure get a lot of thankyous when I save some guys bacon. During some of the DEs tonight, when a boss spawned, a player turned to me and said "We doin this?" and I was like "Hell yeah!" and that was it. Nothing else needed to be said because we were were back to back all the way to the end. I seem to spend more time playing like I'm on a team than I do looking or sounding like I am.
This. The very definition of social interaction in GW2. I think people seem to think social interaction is just talking. If we shake hands we just interacted socially. If we make eye contact and make a 'silent contract' to go in and kill this boss, we interacted socially.
Originally posted by Leethe Honestly? Theere just isn't time between ressing, running, healing, buffing and laying down combo fields. For a game that has no community I sure get a lot of thankyous when I save some guys bacon. During some of the DEs tonight, when a boss spawned, a player turned to me and said "We doin this?" and I was like "Hell yeah!" and that was it. Nothing else needed to be said because we were were back to back all the way to the end. I seem to spend more time playing like I'm on a team than I do looking or sounding like I am.
In older MMOs that were designed around the concept of a social community that actually acts like one instead of a bunch of "soloers in a group", you had everything that you decribed above and a sense of being among people with actual personalities and interesting or funny things to say... great conversations, etc.
You got to enjoy both. They weren't mutually exclusive.
If someone has never played the older MMOs and actually experienced first-hand what a real and actively social community is, they will never understand that.
Of course, the industry has been heading this way for years now, since WoW broke on to the scene and started catering to the "solo-friendly 'til end-game" mentality. Players pushed and pushed and pushed and pushed for more and more soloable content, considering anything where they had to - heaven forbid - cooperate with someone else to be "forced grouping", as though it was some kind of evil thing to actually work as part of a team instead of a lone wolf.
And please don't come back with the typical hyperbolic answer of, "well I don't have time to stand around for 5 hours a night looking for a group". I never had to, either and I grouped almost exclusively in older MMOs. If you had to spend that much time waiting to get into a group, then you either were putting zero effort into it, waiting for the group to come to you. Or, you had a shitty attitude, sucked to group with, your reputation got around and no one wanted to group with you.
A benefit of real server communities in older MMOs is that your reputation actually meant something - nowadays you'd be lucky if anyone outside your guild or, hell, even in your guild knew of you at all.
MMOs have been going toward catering to the "me, me, me.. it's all about me" generation. GW2 is simply continuing that trend. Anyone who knows what true community is in a MMORPG knows that the idea of "public events" or "public quests" or what-have-you (just like in WAR and Rift) are not actual community activities. It's like this cheesy con-job being played by the developers to sorta give the impression of there being "group activity" without actually having it.
"Oh look! I'm doing stuff among a bunch of other players! This must be what a server community is!" No. Not even close. A bunch of soloers running around in the same area doing the same thing is not group content. Especially when, as I'm seeing mentioned more and more over time about GW2, hardly anyone's even so much as communicating at all.
it's because you never have to group with anyone to do anything at anytime ever. Everyone gets credit for just running around bashing things during hearts and events so why would you ever chat?
I never chat to anyone in gw2. Doesn't help me gain anything so it's unnecessary.
And how does chatting help you in other games? I've played a ton of mmorgs and usually people talk only when in dungeon and only at boss for strategies. Keep yapping in chat for most of the time in a dungeon to make sure you get booted for not being active in combat lol.
Oh I do chat with people too, in /g and when I'm idling or doing something unimportant that requires only a bit concentration. This usually amplifies greatly after getting at least one char to max level and exploring most of the maps and content. I dont buy mmorpgs to chat all day long on the first few weeks.
Well, I have made some real, lasting, serious friendships, which has been nice. I am still really good friends and have met several people many time who live in Europe (I am in the US) from EQ and WoW. Socializing *can* be fun, but it is hard to even get my damn guild to talk in this game, even in the cities during peak time.
Don't get me wrong, I love this game, and I like it for what it is--a game I am duoing with my wife. This game, to me, has more the feel of some LAN game I am playing with her than a serious MMORPG, just because it is so quiet and no one really socializes.
Find a new guild that is talktive. You can join multiple guilds anyway. If your current guild are made of your friends, then I dont know what to tell you.
Originally posted by Leethe Honestly? Theere just isn't time between ressing, running, healing, buffing and laying down combo fields. For a game that has no community I sure get a lot of thankyous when I save some guys bacon. During some of the DEs tonight, when a boss spawned, a player turned to me and said "We doin this?" and I was like "Hell yeah!" and that was it. Nothing else needed to be said because we were were back to back all the way to the end. I seem to spend more time playing like I'm on a team than I do looking or sounding like I am.
In older MMOs that were designed around the concept of a social community that actually acts like one instead of a bunch of "soloers in a group", you had everything that you decribed above and a sense of being among people with actual personalities and interesting or funny things to say... great conversations, etc.
You got to enjoy both. They weren't mutually exclusive.
If someone has never played the older MMOs and actually experienced first-hand what a real and actively social community is, they will never understand that.
Of course, the industry has been heading this way for years now, since WoW broke on to the scene and started catering to the "solo-friendly 'til end-game" mentality. Players pushed and pushed and pushed and pushed for more and more soloable content, considering anything where they had to - heaven forbid - cooperate with someone else to be "forced grouping", as though it was some kind of evil thing to actually work as part of a team instead of a lone wolf.
And please don't come back with the typical hyperbolic answer of, "well I don't have time to stand around for 5 hours a night looking for a group". I never had to, either and I grouped almost exclusively in older MMOs. If you had to spend that much time waiting to get into a group, then you either were putting zero effort into it, waiting for the group to come to you. Or, you had a shitty attitude, sucked to group with, your reputation got around and no one wanted to group with you.
A benefit of real server communities in older MMOs is that your reputation actually meant something - nowadays you'd be lucky if anyone outside your guild or, hell, even in your guild knew of you at all.
MMOs have been going toward catering to the "me, me, me.. it's all about me" generation. GW2 is simply continuing that trend. Anyone who knows what true community is in a MMORPG knows that the idea of "public events" or "public quests" or what-have-you (just like in WAR and Rift) are not actual community activities. It's like this cheesy con-job being played by the developers to sorta give the impression of there being "group activity" without actually having it.
A bunch of soloers running around in the same area doing the same thing is not group content.
Holy crap. Someone who actually knows what they're talking about. Well said.
Originally posted by Leethe Honestly? Theere just isn't time between ressing, running, healing, buffing and laying down combo fields. For a game that has no community I sure get a lot of thankyous when I save some guys bacon. During some of the DEs tonight, when a boss spawned, a player turned to me and said "We doin this?" and I was like "Hell yeah!" and that was it. Nothing else needed to be said because we were were back to back all the way to the end. I seem to spend more time playing like I'm on a team than I do looking or sounding like I am.
This. The very definition of social interaction in GW2. I think people seem to think social interaction is just talking. If we shake hands we just interacted socially. If we make eye contact and make a 'silent contract' to go in and kill this boss, we interacted socially.
just a thought though ..people have skype(which i use) ,teamspeak ,ventrilo..most will be using those i would think
There were a couple people in map chat looking for others to join their dungeon group. They also said, they REQUIRED you to be on SKYPE with them in this group.
One of many dumb things I've read in map chat.
This isn't dumb, but more of a safety net. Let's say you hire a guy to do a certain task. This task requires communication and he is playing a very important role. If he sits in a chair with head phones on and you and the rest of your team are spouting commands at both him and each other, wouldn't you be frustrated that he can't hear you? When you are all able to communicate perfectly and move together to get things done this guy is holding you back, because he wants to listen to his music(i.e. doesnt want to come on skype). It's just common practice in MMO's. if you're joining a group and they have Vent/TS/Skype expet to be asked to join it. It's much easier than typing things out to everyone to explain some long complicated boss fight.
Originally posted by Leethe Honestly? Theere just isn't time between ressing, running, healing, buffing and laying down combo fields. For a game that has no community I sure get a lot of thankyous when I save some guys bacon. During some of the DEs tonight, when a boss spawned, a player turned to me and said "We doin this?" and I was like "Hell yeah!" and that was it. Nothing else needed to be said because we were were back to back all the way to the end. I seem to spend more time playing like I'm on a team than I do looking or sounding like I am.
This. The very definition of social interaction in GW2. I think people seem to think social interaction is just talking. If we shake hands we just interacted socially. If we make eye contact and make a 'silent contract' to go in and kill this boss, we interacted socially.
No.
It's much, much, much more than that.
Now, now. IronLegion said it was just how it's defined in GW2. In other words, in GW2 social interaction sucks compared to other games, but that's how it is in the game.
just a thought though ..people have skype(which i use) ,teamspeak ,ventrilo..most will be using those i would think
There were a couple people in map chat looking for others to join their dungeon group. They also said, they REQUIRED you to be on SKYPE with them in this group.
One of many dumb things I've read in map chat.
This isn't dumb, but more of a safety net. Let's say you hire a guy to do a certain task. This task requires communication and he is playing a very important role. If he sits in a chair with head phones on and you and the rest of your team are spouting commands at both him and each other, wouldn't you be frustrated that he can't hear you? When you are all able to communicate perfectly and move together to get things done this guy is holding you back, because he wants to listen to his music(i.e. doesnt want to come on skype). It's just common practice in MMO's. if you're joining a group and they have Vent/TS/Skype expet to be asked to join it. It's much easier than typing things out to everyone to explain some long complicated boss fight.
It's actually extremely dumb. They specifically required skype, and would not accept teamspeak, ventrilo, raidcall, or anything else. Just skype where you give out your member id.
Also does skype even have actual push to talk support yet? Or is it still a crappy workaround.
just a thought though ..people have skype(which i use) ,teamspeak ,ventrilo..most will be using those i would think
There were a couple people in map chat looking for others to join their dungeon group. They also said, they REQUIRED you to be on SKYPE with them in this group.
One of many dumb things I've read in map chat.
This isn't dumb, but more of a safety net. Let's say you hire a guy to do a certain task. This task requires communication and he is playing a very important role. If he sits in a chair with head phones on and you and the rest of your team are spouting commands at both him and each other, wouldn't you be frustrated that he can't hear you? When you are all able to communicate perfectly and move together to get things done this guy is holding you back, because he wants to listen to his music(i.e. doesnt want to come on skype). It's just common practice in MMO's. if you're joining a group and they have Vent/TS/Skype expet to be asked to join it. It's much easier than typing things out to everyone to explain some long complicated boss fight.
If that is so, you take this game and games in general way too serious.
just a thought though ..people have skype(which i use) ,teamspeak ,ventrilo..most will be using those i would think
There were a couple people in map chat looking for others to join their dungeon group. They also said, they REQUIRED you to be on SKYPE with them in this group.
One of many dumb things I've read in map chat.
This isn't dumb, but more of a safety net.
I agree it isn't dumb.
It's their group, they can put whatever conditions they want on you joining it they like. If they want solid spoken communiction, so be it. If you don't don't join them.
They aren't the only game in town. You have options.
Originally posted by Leethe Honestly? Theere just isn't time between ressing, running, healing, buffing and laying down combo fields. For a game that has no community I sure get a lot of thankyous when I save some guys bacon. During some of the DEs tonight, when a boss spawned, a player turned to me and said "We doin this?" and I was like "Hell yeah!" and that was it. Nothing else needed to be said because we were were back to back all the way to the end. I seem to spend more time playing like I'm on a team than I do looking or sounding like I am.
In older MMOs that were designed around the concept of a social community that actually acts like one instead of a bunch of "soloers in a group", you had everything that you decribed above and a sense of being among people with actual personalities and interesting or funny things to say... great conversations, etc.
You got to enjoy both. They weren't mutually exclusive.
If someone has never played the older MMOs and actually experienced first-hand what a real and actively social community is, they will never understand that.
Of course, the industry has been heading this way for years now, since WoW broke on to the scene and started catering to the "solo-friendly 'til end-game" mentality. Players pushed and pushed and pushed and pushed for more and more soloable content, considering anything where they had to - heaven forbid - cooperate with someone else to be "forced grouping", as though it was some kind of evil thing to actually work as part of a team instead of a lone wolf.
And please don't come back with the typical hyperbolic answer of, "well I don't have time to stand around for 5 hours a night looking for a group". I never had to, either and I grouped almost exclusively in older MMOs. If you had to spend that much time waiting to get into a group, then you either were putting zero effort into it, waiting for the group to come to you. Or, you had a shitty attitude, sucked to group with, your reputation got around and no one wanted to group with you.
A benefit of real server communities in older MMOs is that your reputation actually meant something - nowadays you'd be lucky if anyone outside your guild or, hell, even in your guild knew of you at all.
MMOs have been going toward catering to the "me, me, me.. it's all about me" generation. GW2 is simply continuing that trend. Anyone who knows what true community is in a MMORPG knows that the idea of "public events" or "public quests" or what-have-you (just like in WAR and Rift) are not actual community activities. It's like this cheesy con-job being played by the developers to sorta give the impression of there being "group activity" without actually having it. "Oh look! I'm doing stuff among a bunch of other players! This must be what a server community is!" No. Not even close.
A bunch of soloers running around in the same area doing the same thing is not group content.
Feels like group content to me. Just because you don't feel it doesn't mean it isn't. Personally, I've seen plenty of random conversations happen between stragners. From simple "Ty"s for getting a res, to full blown conversations about the set of armor someone is wearing. GW2 isn't the problem, yet everyone seems to want to point the finger at it. Because people don't talk in a game it's got to be the game's fault. No other reasoning can be derived [right?].
I also think people are still forgetting the fact that Ventrilo, teamspeak, and skype rule the chatways now. If you want to talk to people join a guild with vent. Chat may be empty but I bet the vent is LIVELY. I play with just a few friends from League of Legends. We use skype and our chat is rather empty, but skype is always moving. Someone is always saying something stupid or posting some picture of something that can not be unseen. That same interaction is there, just not in the way it use to be. Chat channels are empty, sure but its been taken somewhere else.
just a thought though ..people have skype(which i use) ,teamspeak ,ventrilo..most will be using those i would think
There were a couple people in map chat looking for others to join their dungeon group. They also said, they REQUIRED you to be on SKYPE with them in this group.
One of many dumb things I've read in map chat.
This isn't dumb, but more of a safety net. Let's say you hire a guy to do a certain task. This task requires communication and he is playing a very important role. If he sits in a chair with head phones on and you and the rest of your team are spouting commands at both him and each other, wouldn't you be frustrated that he can't hear you? When you are all able to communicate perfectly and move together to get things done this guy is holding you back, because he wants to listen to his music(i.e. doesnt want to come on skype). It's just common practice in MMO's. if you're joining a group and they have Vent/TS/Skype expet to be asked to join it. It's much easier than typing things out to everyone to explain some long complicated boss fight.
Funny. I played FFXI for over 7 years - a game that definitely required active communication in tough situations - and hardly anyone used voice chat for any of it. I was able to listen to my music and successfully help my team complete content. Imagine that!
People knew what to do going in, they were able to give commands during the fight (fast typing, simple commands, prepared macros, etc), people paid attention, and things went smoothly.
I'm not against using voice chat. I prefer it simply 'cause I like having a voice to put with a name (esp. if I don't know them in real life), but it's never necessary for me to do my job well. That comes from knowing how to play your role well (another story altogether), being prepared, being attentive, being respectful of others' time that you're grouped with and not being a jerk who's only in it for yourself and "screw everyone else".
Besides, it's not like that person being on Skype is automatically going to mean he's paying attention. He could be watching Anime for all you know, just listening for his name to make sure he's "present". I've seen it happen.
If someone's determined to be a non-active participant who just sorta does whatever and gets carried through stuff, they're going to find a way to do that no matter what means of communication you use, short of live video feed or sitting in the same room with the person. There's a lot of people who put more effort into not playing the game than they do into playing. Of course, that's ever-easier to do with the way MMO design is going these days, where you can pretty much fail your way to a win in most cases.
Point is, while voice chat is a nice thing, it is by no means necessary if you have a group of competent people who are paying attention and capable of carrying out simple instructions - which is what anything in a MMO boils down to.
just a thought though ..people have skype(which i use) ,teamspeak ,ventrilo..most will be using those i would think
There were a couple people in map chat looking for others to join their dungeon group. They also said, they REQUIRED you to be on SKYPE with them in this group.
One of many dumb things I've read in map chat.
This isn't dumb, but more of a safety net. Let's say you hire a guy to do a certain task. This task requires communication and he is playing a very important role. If he sits in a chair with head phones on and you and the rest of your team are spouting commands at both him and each other, wouldn't you be frustrated that he can't hear you? When you are all able to communicate perfectly and move together to get things done this guy is holding you back, because he wants to listen to his music(i.e. doesnt want to come on skype). It's just common practice in MMO's. if you're joining a group and they have Vent/TS/Skype expet to be asked to join it. It's much easier than typing things out to everyone to explain some long complicated boss fight.
Funny. I played FFXI for over 7 years - a game that definitely required active communication in tough situations - and hardly anyone used voice chat for any of it. I was able to listen to my music and successfully help my team complete content. Imagine that!
People knew what to do going in, they were able to give commands during the fight (fast typing, simple commands, prepared macros, etc), people paid attention, and things went smoothly.
I'm not against using voice chat. I prefer it simply 'cause I like having a voice to put with a name (esp. if I don't know them in real life), but it's never necessary for me to do my job well. That comes from knowing how to play your role well (another story altogether), being prepared, being attentive, being respectful of others' time that you're grouped with and not being a jerk.
Besides, it's not like that person being on Skype is automatically going to mean he's paying attention. He could be watching Anime for all you know, just listening for his name to make sure he's "present". I've seen it happen.
If someone's determined to be a non-active participant who just sorta does whatever and gets carried through stuff, they're going to find a way to do that no matter what means of communication you use.
Point is, while voice chat is a nice thing, it is by no means necessary if you have a group of competent people who are paying attention and capable of carrying out simple instructions - which is what anything in a MMO boils down to.
Never said it was necessary to complete things, but it is much much easier. Especially if you're already in ventrilo together, why not use it to get things done. Now what is a problem is when someone doesn't know. Say that poor guy doing the dungeon for the first time and doesn't know the ropes. Not everyone is going to be well versed on a games content and even if they are they may still want to hear a command form the head before moving or doing anything in particular; just to be double sure. Some people just want that 'safety net' of knowing "we're all here, we can all speak to one another, and we can all hear the commands to move here and dodge this." Not to mention it's less of a headache to just say "move to the left side of the room" than it is to have to stop and type it. And as mentioned before GW2 isn't a game where you can stop and type. You stop and you're dead. Especially in some of these boss fights. Fought a boss who did Aoe damage everytime he took a footstep. So if you weren't out of his way you were going to get squashed. Besides it is nice to 'put a voice with a name'.
it's because you never have to group with anyone to do anything at anytime ever. Everyone gets credit for just running around bashing things during hearts and events so why would you ever chat?
I never chat to anyone in gw2. Doesn't help me gain anything so it's unnecessary.
My slashdot signature goes:
MMORPG's are like orgasms, you might want to solo them, I prefer a group.
This guy took the other option.
Does not talk, because there is no gold star for it...
I'll chat a bit in the capitals, but to be honest out in the PvE maps I'm usually too busy with the combat and all. Stopping to whisper sweet nothings to a group of strangers can be fatal in a game with scaled content.
The quality of the community, on my server anyway, is about the best I've seen in a decade. Everyone is too busy having fun to engage in bored chat. People do cooperate in this game, constantly, but it doesn't require much communication in chat. In WvW, the chat is just enough to coordinate and be productive, I see no BS chat there at all and peope actually listen and react when the call to arms goes ot for attackers, defenders or objective skirmishers.
For things that require more coordination with formal parties, I think most people are using various voice chat options. I mostly group with people I know and we voice chat when we play. Most guilds today use voice chat. It makes sense in general, but it's even more important in a game with such active combat, there really isn't time in the middle of a battle to stop and type much of anything, beyond the occassional "Adds!" or "Run!".
just a thought though ..people have skype(which i use) ,teamspeak ,ventrilo..most will be using those i would think
There were a couple people in map chat looking for others to join their dungeon group. They also said, they REQUIRED you to be on SKYPE with them in this group.
One of many dumb things I've read in map chat.
This isn't dumb, but more of a safety net. Let's say you hire a guy to do a certain task. This task requires communication and he is playing a very important role. If he sits in a chair with head phones on and you and the rest of your team are spouting commands at both him and each other, wouldn't you be frustrated that he can't hear you? When you are all able to communicate perfectly and move together to get things done this guy is holding you back, because he wants to listen to his music(i.e. doesnt want to come on skype). It's just common practice in MMO's. if you're joining a group and they have Vent/TS/Skype expet to be asked to join it. It's much easier than typing things out to everyone to explain some long complicated boss fight.
It doesn't even have to be more complicated, though. That's the point. I've run with 18 man alliances to do content in XI. None of us used voice chat. We did fine.
As far as someone being new and not knowing what to do? Very, very simple.
1. Best Case: You have a good group leader who asks if anyone is new to the content and needs some instructions on what will happen or what they'll need to do.
2. I've done a number of tough encounters recently in XIV. All without voice chat. What did the group leader do? Prepared everyone ahead of time. Put people into "groups" or "categories", gave an overview of what commands they would use to communicate when it was time to do something. Simple, one word commands that they could type in seconds, or simply use chat history to repeat that way. One of the fights was a good 5-10 minutes. We completed it, and the others, successfully.
3. The people who are new make it known that they're new to begin with so the leader knows they are and can proceed to do the same as in #1 and #2.
4. The peopel who are new do some homework ahead of time, read up on the fight/dungeon/whatever to understand what it's all about, what the general strategies are and what their role will likely be.
Any combination of those things has proven successful, many many times over. For many, many people. I'm not spinning theories here. There's years worth of empirical proof that it works.
The main problem - whether it's voice chat or no - is that you'll always have people who simply want to be carried while doing as little as possible. Nothing short of kicking that person, or having a good, solid server community where the person's reputation as a leech is known and he's not invited in the first place, is going to solve that.
When I see someone saying "voice chat or you no go", I shake my head.
The quality of the community, on my server anyway, is about the best I've seen in a decade. Everyone is too busy having fun to engage in bored chat. People do cooperate in this game, constantly, but it doesn't require much communication in chat. In WvW, the chat is just enough to coordinate and be productive, I see no BS chat there at all and peope actually listen and react when the call to arms goes ot for attackers, defenders or objective skirmishers.
For things that require more coordination with formal parties, I think most people are using various voice chat options. I mostly group with people I know and we voice chat when we play. Most guilds today use voice chat. It makes sense in general, but it's even more important in a game with such active combat, there really isn't time in the middle of a battle to stop and type much of anything, beyond the occassional "Adds!" or "Run!".
So there's barely any chat. But the community is great because they are all cooperating seperately but together to achieve a personal goal. In other words, they don't say anything, and for all you know could completely hate everyone around them, and are only using them to get the event done then leave them never to see them again.
In WvW there's some chat, I noticed. People typing in all caps, absolutely ripping into other people for going the wrong way, or not doing what they want, or for any number of different things.
I'm sorry the last 10 years of communities you've experienced have been so atrocious
The quality of the community, on my server anyway, is about the best I've seen in a decade. Everyone is too busy having fun to engage in bored chat. People do cooperate in this game, constantly, but it doesn't require much communication in chat. In WvW, the chat is just enough to coordinate and be productive, I see no BS chat there at all and peope actually listen and react when the call to arms goes ot for attackers, defenders or objective skirmishers.
See, I keep seeing this same kind of response coming up, and it's always - always - a mischaracterization of the situation. And it's always presented as this "either/or" situation, as though being social and being active are mutually exclusive. They're not.
There's no "bored chat" (did you mean "boring"?). We're having fun talking to each other, joking around, telling stories, getting to know fellow server-mates... all while having fun and being challenged engaging in whatever content it is we're doing. When it's time for focus, we focus. When there's a moment to breathe, we "shoot the shit", so to speak.
For things that require more coordination with formal parties, I think most people are using various voice chat options. I mostly group with people I know and we voice chat when we play. Most guilds today use voice chat. It makes sense in general, but it's even more important in a game with such active combat, there really isn't time in the middle of a battle to stop and type much of anything, beyond the occassional "Adds!" or "Run!".
Again... has all been possible and done for almost a decade in other, older MMOs, without issue. Voice chat is a convenience. It should never be a necessity.
just a thought though ..people have skype(which i use) ,teamspeak ,ventrilo..most will be using those i would think
There were a couple people in map chat looking for others to join their dungeon group. They also said, they REQUIRED you to be on SKYPE with them in this group.
One of many dumb things I've read in map chat.
This isn't dumb, but more of a safety net. Let's say you hire a guy to do a certain task. This task requires communication and he is playing a very important role. If he sits in a chair with head phones on and you and the rest of your team are spouting commands at both him and each other, wouldn't you be frustrated that he can't hear you? When you are all able to communicate perfectly and move together to get things done this guy is holding you back, because he wants to listen to his music(i.e. doesnt want to come on skype). It's just common practice in MMO's. if you're joining a group and they have Vent/TS/Skype expet to be asked to join it. It's much easier than typing things out to everyone to explain some long complicated boss fight.
It doesn't even have to be more complicated, though. That's the point. I've run with 18 man alliances to do content in XI. None of us used voice chat. We did fine.
As far as someone being new and not knowing what to do? Very, very simple.
1. Best Case: You have a good group leader who asks if anyone is new to the content and needs some instructions on what will happen or what they'll need to do.
2. I've done a number of tough encounters recently in XIV. All without voice chat. What did the group leader do? Prepared everyone ahead of time. Put people into "groups" or "categories", gave an overview of what commands they would use to communicate when it was time to do something. Simple, one word commands that they could type in seconds, or simply use chat history to repeat that way. One of the fights was a good 5-10 minutes. We completed it, and the others, successfully.
3. The people who are new make it known that they're new to begin with so the leader knows they are and can proceed to do the same as in #2.
4. The peopel who are new do some homework ahead of time, read up on the fight to understand what it's all about, what the general strategies are and what their role will likely be.
Any combination of those things has proven successful, many many times over. For many, many people. I'm not spinning theories here. There's years worth of empirical proof that it works.
The main problem - whether it's voice chat or no - is that you'll always have people who simply want to be carried while doing as little as possible. Nothing short of kicking that person, or having a good, solid server community where the person's reputation as a leech is known and he's not invited in the first place, is going to solve that.
Throughout the post I saw the words "I" and "we", meaning that's you and whoever you played with. Not everyone is you. As someone said before some people just want solid voice comms. Is that so wrong? To want to just SAY move instead of having to type it. Am I so wrong for wanting to talk to my friends over skype? is that so evil of me? Does that make me any less of a player because I use it? Am i going to be labeled a noob now, because I value communication. I'm sure anyone in the military will tell you they value being able to hop on a radio and call for support rather than sending carrier pigeons or smoke signals or some whatever other form of communication you can think of [ though the ones listed may be a bit silly].
And someone mentioned earlier that I "take games way too seriously". Me just wanting to talk to someone instead of cracking my fingers trying to type out a conversation is too serious? I'd rather be called lazy...honestly that's what that boils down to.
just a thought though ..people have skype(which i use) ,teamspeak ,ventrilo..most will be using those i would think
There were a couple people in map chat looking for others to join their dungeon group. They also said, they REQUIRED you to be on SKYPE with them in this group.
One of many dumb things I've read in map chat.
This isn't dumb, but more of a safety net. Let's say you hire a guy to do a certain task. This task requires communication and he is playing a very important role. If he sits in a chair with head phones on and you and the rest of your team are spouting commands at both him and each other, wouldn't you be frustrated that he can't hear you? When you are all able to communicate perfectly and move together to get things done this guy is holding you back, because he wants to listen to his music(i.e. doesnt want to come on skype). It's just common practice in MMO's. if you're joining a group and they have Vent/TS/Skype expet to be asked to join it. It's much easier than typing things out to everyone to explain some long complicated boss fight.
It's actually extremely dumb. They specifically required skype, and would not accept teamspeak, ventrilo, raidcall, or anything else. Just skype where you give out your member id.
Also does skype even have actual push to talk support yet? Or is it still a crappy workaround.
Maybe that's because they only had skype and it is their peferred program? You think a group of 5-10 guys(however large the group is) are going to download Ventrilo and hot-create a server just because you like Vent? Not only that vent servers aren't free, mate.
Comments
whatever you do dont say "poopie" or "frack"
This. The very definition of social interaction in GW2. I think people seem to think social interaction is just talking. If we shake hands we just interacted socially. If we make eye contact and make a 'silent contract' to go in and kill this boss, we interacted socially.
In older MMOs that were designed around the concept of a social community that actually acts like one instead of a bunch of "soloers in a group", you had everything that you decribed above and a sense of being among people with actual personalities and interesting or funny things to say... great conversations, etc.
You got to enjoy both. They weren't mutually exclusive.
If someone has never played the older MMOs and actually experienced first-hand what a real and actively social community is, they will never understand that.
Of course, the industry has been heading this way for years now, since WoW broke on to the scene and started catering to the "solo-friendly 'til end-game" mentality. Players pushed and pushed and pushed and pushed for more and more soloable content, considering anything where they had to - heaven forbid - cooperate with someone else to be "forced grouping", as though it was some kind of evil thing to actually work as part of a team instead of a lone wolf.
And please don't come back with the typical hyperbolic answer of, "well I don't have time to stand around for 5 hours a night looking for a group". I never had to, either and I grouped almost exclusively in older MMOs. If you had to spend that much time waiting to get into a group, then you either were putting zero effort into it, waiting for the group to come to you. Or, you had a shitty attitude, sucked to group with, your reputation got around and no one wanted to group with you.
A benefit of real server communities in older MMOs is that your reputation actually meant something - nowadays you'd be lucky if anyone outside your guild or, hell, even in your guild knew of you at all.
MMOs have been going toward catering to the "me, me, me.. it's all about me" generation. GW2 is simply continuing that trend. Anyone who knows what true community is in a MMORPG knows that the idea of "public events" or "public quests" or what-have-you (just like in WAR and Rift) are not actual community activities. It's like this cheesy con-job being played by the developers to sorta give the impression of there being "group activity" without actually having it.
"Oh look! I'm doing stuff among a bunch of other players! This must be what a server community is!" No. Not even close. A bunch of soloers running around in the same area doing the same thing is not group content. Especially when, as I'm seeing mentioned more and more over time about GW2, hardly anyone's even so much as communicating at all.
Find a new guild that is talktive. You can join multiple guilds anyway. If your current guild are made of your friends, then I dont know what to tell you.
Holy crap. Someone who actually knows what they're talking about. Well said.
No.
It's much, much, much more than that.
This isn't dumb, but more of a safety net. Let's say you hire a guy to do a certain task. This task requires communication and he is playing a very important role. If he sits in a chair with head phones on and you and the rest of your team are spouting commands at both him and each other, wouldn't you be frustrated that he can't hear you? When you are all able to communicate perfectly and move together to get things done this guy is holding you back, because he wants to listen to his music(i.e. doesnt want to come on skype). It's just common practice in MMO's. if you're joining a group and they have Vent/TS/Skype expet to be asked to join it. It's much easier than typing things out to everyone to explain some long complicated boss fight.
Now, now. IronLegion said it was just how it's defined in GW2. In other words, in GW2 social interaction sucks compared to other games, but that's how it is in the game.
It's actually extremely dumb. They specifically required skype, and would not accept teamspeak, ventrilo, raidcall, or anything else. Just skype where you give out your member id.
Also does skype even have actual push to talk support yet? Or is it still a crappy workaround.
If that is so, you take this game and games in general way too serious.
I agree it isn't dumb.
It's their group, they can put whatever conditions they want on you joining it they like. If they want solid spoken communiction, so be it. If you don't don't join them.
They aren't the only game in town. You have options.
Feels like group content to me. Just because you don't feel it doesn't mean it isn't. Personally, I've seen plenty of random conversations happen between stragners. From simple "Ty"s for getting a res, to full blown conversations about the set of armor someone is wearing. GW2 isn't the problem, yet everyone seems to want to point the finger at it. Because people don't talk in a game it's got to be the game's fault. No other reasoning can be derived [right?].
I also think people are still forgetting the fact that Ventrilo, teamspeak, and skype rule the chatways now. If you want to talk to people join a guild with vent. Chat may be empty but I bet the vent is LIVELY. I play with just a few friends from League of Legends. We use skype and our chat is rather empty, but skype is always moving. Someone is always saying something stupid or posting some picture of something that can not be unseen. That same interaction is there, just not in the way it use to be. Chat channels are empty, sure but its been taken somewhere else.
Funny. I played FFXI for over 7 years - a game that definitely required active communication in tough situations - and hardly anyone used voice chat for any of it. I was able to listen to my music and successfully help my team complete content. Imagine that!
People knew what to do going in, they were able to give commands during the fight (fast typing, simple commands, prepared macros, etc), people paid attention, and things went smoothly.
I'm not against using voice chat. I prefer it simply 'cause I like having a voice to put with a name (esp. if I don't know them in real life), but it's never necessary for me to do my job well. That comes from knowing how to play your role well (another story altogether), being prepared, being attentive, being respectful of others' time that you're grouped with and not being a jerk who's only in it for yourself and "screw everyone else".
Besides, it's not like that person being on Skype is automatically going to mean he's paying attention. He could be watching Anime for all you know, just listening for his name to make sure he's "present". I've seen it happen.
If someone's determined to be a non-active participant who just sorta does whatever and gets carried through stuff, they're going to find a way to do that no matter what means of communication you use, short of live video feed or sitting in the same room with the person. There's a lot of people who put more effort into not playing the game than they do into playing. Of course, that's ever-easier to do with the way MMO design is going these days, where you can pretty much fail your way to a win in most cases.
Point is, while voice chat is a nice thing, it is by no means necessary if you have a group of competent people who are paying attention and capable of carrying out simple instructions - which is what anything in a MMO boils down to.
Never said it was necessary to complete things, but it is much much easier. Especially if you're already in ventrilo together, why not use it to get things done. Now what is a problem is when someone doesn't know. Say that poor guy doing the dungeon for the first time and doesn't know the ropes. Not everyone is going to be well versed on a games content and even if they are they may still want to hear a command form the head before moving or doing anything in particular; just to be double sure. Some people just want that 'safety net' of knowing "we're all here, we can all speak to one another, and we can all hear the commands to move here and dodge this." Not to mention it's less of a headache to just say "move to the left side of the room" than it is to have to stop and type it. And as mentioned before GW2 isn't a game where you can stop and type. You stop and you're dead. Especially in some of these boss fights. Fought a boss who did Aoe damage everytime he took a footstep. So if you weren't out of his way you were going to get squashed. Besides it is nice to 'put a voice with a name'.
typing two letters of chat speak is not a conversation hth
by whose standards? Yours? Now you're just nit picking.
My slashdot signature goes:
MMORPG's are like orgasms, you might want to solo them, I prefer a group.
This guy took the other option.
Does not talk, because there is no gold star for it...
sad really.
Oderint, dum metuant.
The quality of the community, on my server anyway, is about the best I've seen in a decade. Everyone is too busy having fun to engage in bored chat. People do cooperate in this game, constantly, but it doesn't require much communication in chat. In WvW, the chat is just enough to coordinate and be productive, I see no BS chat there at all and peope actually listen and react when the call to arms goes ot for attackers, defenders or objective skirmishers.
For things that require more coordination with formal parties, I think most people are using various voice chat options. I mostly group with people I know and we voice chat when we play. Most guilds today use voice chat. It makes sense in general, but it's even more important in a game with such active combat, there really isn't time in the middle of a battle to stop and type much of anything, beyond the occassional "Adds!" or "Run!".
Want to know more about GW2 and why there is so much buzz? Start here: Guild Wars 2 Mass Info for the Uninitiated
It doesn't even have to be more complicated, though. That's the point. I've run with 18 man alliances to do content in XI. None of us used voice chat. We did fine.
As far as someone being new and not knowing what to do? Very, very simple.
1. Best Case: You have a good group leader who asks if anyone is new to the content and needs some instructions on what will happen or what they'll need to do.
2. I've done a number of tough encounters recently in XIV. All without voice chat. What did the group leader do? Prepared everyone ahead of time. Put people into "groups" or "categories", gave an overview of what commands they would use to communicate when it was time to do something. Simple, one word commands that they could type in seconds, or simply use chat history to repeat that way. One of the fights was a good 5-10 minutes. We completed it, and the others, successfully.
3. The people who are new make it known that they're new to begin with so the leader knows they are and can proceed to do the same as in #1 and #2.
4. The peopel who are new do some homework ahead of time, read up on the fight/dungeon/whatever to understand what it's all about, what the general strategies are and what their role will likely be.
Any combination of those things has proven successful, many many times over. For many, many people. I'm not spinning theories here. There's years worth of empirical proof that it works.
The main problem - whether it's voice chat or no - is that you'll always have people who simply want to be carried while doing as little as possible. Nothing short of kicking that person, or having a good, solid server community where the person's reputation as a leech is known and he's not invited in the first place, is going to solve that.
When I see someone saying "voice chat or you no go", I shake my head.
So there's barely any chat. But the community is great because they are all cooperating seperately but together to achieve a personal goal. In other words, they don't say anything, and for all you know could completely hate everyone around them, and are only using them to get the event done then leave them never to see them again.
In WvW there's some chat, I noticed. People typing in all caps, absolutely ripping into other people for going the wrong way, or not doing what they want, or for any number of different things.
I'm sorry the last 10 years of communities you've experienced have been so atrocious
Throughout the post I saw the words "I" and "we", meaning that's you and whoever you played with. Not everyone is you. As someone said before some people just want solid voice comms. Is that so wrong? To want to just SAY move instead of having to type it. Am I so wrong for wanting to talk to my friends over skype? is that so evil of me? Does that make me any less of a player because I use it? Am i going to be labeled a noob now, because I value communication. I'm sure anyone in the military will tell you they value being able to hop on a radio and call for support rather than sending carrier pigeons or smoke signals or some whatever other form of communication you can think of [ though the ones listed may be a bit silly].
And someone mentioned earlier that I "take games way too seriously". Me just wanting to talk to someone instead of cracking my fingers trying to type out a conversation is too serious? I'd rather be called lazy...honestly that's what that boils down to.
Maybe that's because they only had skype and it is their peferred program? You think a group of 5-10 guys(however large the group is) are going to download Ventrilo and hot-create a server just because you like Vent? Not only that vent servers aren't free, mate.
edit: sorry for stacking posts.