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12 v 12 lol
Mackeh
Member Posts: 164
Just read that this state of the art 2012 MMO will have 12 v 12 which may be scaled back to 8 v 8
I was playing 40 v 40 in WOW 6 years ago and 25 v 25 in the 90's in Quake.
Such small minded developers we have now, they have the best servers the fastest broadband yet they are only capable of churning out small minded games, WOT, MWO, WOP etc
No wonder the Blizzard devs are so smug, they are light years ahead of most other companies.
Comments
Blizzard, ahead? No, Blizzard has done wonders to stall advancement, because MMOs from the 90s were far FAR ahead of anything WoW has.
DAoC had battles that reached up to 600 people, a couple hundred on each side. In 2000.
The reason this game has such a hard cap isn't because of bad tech, its because its not an MMO. But, the recent trend (especially on this website) is to link a ton of games that aren't MMOs, to get better ad revenue. No one in their right mind has ever called Mechwarrior an MMO.
This is a game based on the Battletech Universe where a Lance is 4 Mechs and 12x12 Mechs is already a big fight with 3 Lances on each side.
This means you as player be important while its team and tactic based and not on zergin bigger numbers - you should apreciate it!
Also in the long run there is comunity warfare with capturing planets etc. though the game will start with the core gameplay - the Mechfights and other fundamental gameplay mechanics - and grow bigger and bigger over time.
Its the most fun pvp game around already...
"Torquemada... do not implore him for compassion. Torquemada... do not beg him for forgiveness. Torquemada... do not ask him for mercy. Let's face it, you can't Torquemada anything!"
MWO Music Video - What does the Mech say: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FF6HYNqCDLI
Johnny Cash - The Man Comes Around: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0x2iwK0BKM
Well I can go play WW2 online or planetside 2 with thousands of people. Neener neener. They are obviously better based on numbers alone. Oh wait. Different games are different. 1000s of people in WOW is freaking terrible, chaotic and often crashed servers. 8v8 and 12v12 work well for MWO. Judging a game by something so arbitrary is moronic.
"The reason this game has such a hard cap isn't because of bad tech, its because its not an MMO. But, the recent trend (especially on this website) is to link a ton of games that aren't MMOs, to get better ad revenue. No one in their right mind has ever called Mechwarrior an MMO."
Your definition of MMO is extremly narrow and you would be the outlier. Not others.
I find the OP's complaint somewhat silly given the BattleTech Universe. Now if they were talking about 40v40, I could see the LOLfactor.
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%
its not a bloody MMO..
Thats like calling Battlefield or COD and MMO lol..
Why is it on here? good question.. but being on here does not make it an MMO... it is a multiplayer FPS type game but in big robots instead..
What makes it not a MMO to you?
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%
Time for you to do some reading.
Specifically the "Game types" section.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massively_multiplayer_online_game
You will need to inform the folks over at Planetside 2 that they are not an MMO by your definition.
Actually a quote taken from that wiki page sums it up pretty good..
"A massively multiplayer online game (also called MMO and MMOG) is a multiplayer video game which is capable of supporting hundreds or thousands of players simultaneously."
Mechwarrior Online does not do this...
Also as for the game types section
"
First-person shooter
MMOFPS is an online gaming genre which features a persistent world and a large number of simultaneous players in a first-person shooter fashion.[10][11] These games provide large-scale, sometimes team-based combat. The addition of persistence in the game world means that these games add elements typically found in RPGs, such as experience points.[citation needed] However, MMOFPS games emphasize player skill more than player statistics, as no number of in-game bonuses will compensate for a player's inability to aim and think tactically.[12]
Neocron is sometimes considered the first MMOFPS,[12][13] most consider it a hybrid of MMORPG and first-person shooter,[14][15] with the later PlanetSide allowing 399 players all to fight together on the same map. Some may consider Zipper's MAG an MMOFPS as it allows up to 256 players to fight together on the same map.[16]. The newest, and by far the biggest, MMOFPS to date that is currently in beta phase is PlanetSide 2, sequel to the original game. It is able to support up to 2,000 players in a single map, or continent of the game with a max cap of 6,000 players on a single server fighting across different continents."
So no i dont need to change my view on things as Wiki agrees with me..
And I agree with you. Some games on this site aren't massively multiplayer by a long shot. League of Legends for one example. Guild Wars 1 is another.
This game should be fun, and I hope 12 v 12 isn't too big of a fight or there are options for smaller engagements.
...er, actually it does.
MWO has a persistent world. What people do affects that world. It is supporting hundreds or thousands of players simultaneously.
By your definition then, any time somebody goes into an instance in what you likely consider a MMO - well, it's no longer a MMO.... well, unless it's actually a case that you've made the case for MWO being a MMO.
Curious....
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%
Ah I see what you're saying. So Mount and Blade Warband's mod cRPG is an MMO as well.
Personally, I wouldn't consider something that can only have so few players in the world at a time a MMO. I wouldn't have mentioned "hundreds" if not for Caldrin's quote.
In general terms, that number of players in a MMO usually means one of two things: server merge coming or the game was shut down and they forgot to turn the servers off...lol.
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%
No it dont...
They taked about having a big map where people could attack different parts but as far as I know thats not in game yet unless its somthing they ahve added in the last few weeks I have not seen much mentioned about it at all really.. So i dont expect to see it anytime in the near future..
So all it has at the moment are small 12v12 matches that dont effect anything other than yuor acconut credit balance and XP. This does not make it a MMO you are not playing with 1000s or even 100s of people simultanuously.. your playing with 11 other people at a time and thats it..
I guess I just took notice of what you were saying, when you said hundreds or thousands of players simultaneously. However, they are not together. That is, they're playing the same game, much like I play a match of Halo, and other people are playing a seperate match of Halo. But the difference between this and an actual massively multiplayer game, is that in an MMO the players are in the SAME world and can choose to go see the other players.
For example, in EVE there can be thousands of players in the same fight. In World of Warcraft, thousands of players can be in the same zone (though this may cause the server to crash and Blizz to get angry and ban for their server sucking). In Planetside, hundreds in the same map, again.
However, in MWO they are in seperate fights that aren't connected. They just update a map. In League of Legends, thousands play, but seperated into their matches. In Guild Wars 1, the town where players are is instanced many times, and is more of a lobby, and the actual play occurs in, again, seperated areas. That's why these aren't massively multiplayer. They're multiplayer, sure, and the players tie together, but the multiplayer isn't massive.
But that's where one could make the argument that MWO is more of a MMO than what most consider a MMO. What the players do in MWO actually affects the other players. Can they all see each other? No, they can't. But then again, can people in an instance in another MMO see all the other players? Nope. They can only see those that are there. Can they leave there and go see all the other players? Nope, not really. They may be able to see some of them - but they're going to have to travel around from zone to zone to find those that are not in an instance.
I have to chuckle at the thousands of playes in the same fight with regard to EVE. How many of them are actually in the fight and how many of them are on voice asking what's going on while looking at a frozen screen?
Thousands of players involved in the same fight would not make sense in BattleTech - not all on the same battlefield. On the other hand, campaigns throughout the BT universe - where thousands of participants are partaking in battles on countless planets at the same time? Yep...that works.
A curious thing about that wikipedia page they both linked and quoted from - would be that there are MMO Sports Games.
Thousands of folks playing Football, Soccer, Basketball? Nope... but they're still MMOs, eh?
Touching back on EVE...so you're saying that any game that can't have 1000 folks fighting at the same time is not a MMO? In that case, you've basically eliminated every game....
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%
EVE: Master Race of MMOs
What about Call of Duty. Is that an MMO to you? I mean, it has multiplayer. Many people play it. Your actions affect other people (leaderboards). So is this an MMO to you?
Also, just because you have to walk to find the other players, doesn't mean a game isn't massively multiplayer. That you CAN walk to find thousands of others is the difference. If I'm in an instance in say WoW and I come out of it and start walking, I could meet tons of other players. That makes the difference. In MWO, you can't just robowalk out of the battlefield and find someone elses battlefield and wave your mech arms hello to them.
So in short, your reasoning is that COD is an MMO and so is MWO.
I agree, in this case 12 vs 12 works with the lore. Adding a GW2 styled battle with 500 players just wouldnt make the game feel like it should.
Your actions in CoD do not affect the world... it would be silly to suggest that it would be...it would be silly even to ask.
And of course you can't just take your 'mech from one battlefield to the other in such a fashion. Then again, you can't do that in most MMOs either.
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%
"Most MMOGs also share other characteristics that make them different from other multiplayer online games. MMOGs host a large number of players in a single game world, and all of those players can interact with each other at any given time." - from that wikipedia article.
The wikipedia article contradicts itself with that quote + the sports/racing sections etc.
In my thoughts, COD is not MMO. MWO is not MMO. EVE IS MMO. WoW is MMO. All based on that quote.
I mean we can debate this forever really. I'll just say, I don't feel that the MWO multiplayer is massive. I feel that it is at most 12 players fighting 12 players, and those 24 souls cannot wander off into the game world to interact with others.
edit: I looked on wikipedia's list of MMOGs and MMORPGs and MWO isn't listed. Weird huh? :P
Yep, had me thinking back to the original books for the various groups - they were all pretty much company based. Later as things progressed, might see multiple companies and even battalions/regiments - but usually those would be spread out amongst multiple worlds and involved in multiple battles.
Large scale battles were rare. There might only be a 1-4 'mechs stationed on a planet...
Doesn't mean that large battles did not take place. MWO's at 3049. So the Clan stuff's coming, the last biggy would have been 3039 with Davion/Steiner going after the Capellans...
Big's just not...it's just not there. As far as a single battle. Big's definitely there with the countless planets where conflicts are taking place. That looks to be there with MWO.
It's definitely tempting.
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%
How many of those 12v12 fights are taking place within the game world? Do the outcomes of those fights affect the game world?
Have you ever played BattleTech?
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%
I just can't shake this feeling that you're not in the game world, but rather in a match. The match might use maps over and over, and might update a map you can view afterwards, but that's different than what an MMO's world is like.
What palyers do in MWO is kill each other thats the only effect they have on other players... there is no World Map or anything yet. Infact its not on their road map for this year looking at their beta forums its just an idea they had and hope they can implement it..
If an MMORPG uses instances there are usually 100s or 100s of players in that instance so thats pretty big really and you could use the world massive there...
At the end of the day MWO is not a MMO exactly the same as COD is not a MMO....
oh wow, so the feature that might bring them slightly closer to being an MMO isn't even in for this year? and is just an idea?
MWO isn't MMO for sure then.
I agree that MWO is not a traditional MMO, and until they get the so called community warfare in place it does not really reacht he bar of a MMO
to break it down (this is info taken from the various dev posts and features)
It does support thousandsof players on on servercluster, but it lack a hub for these people to interact.
It does have permanen character progression but curretly lack the persistant world
Once all features are in the game will in fact have a persistant "world" in the form the section of space in which the BAttletech universe is set.
Now anyone who have played SWToR know how hard it is to get the feel of a planet right without speding money like you are Greece and having the game take longer then Duke Nukem Forever to be releasde, It was simply not viable to have full interaction like a "normal" MMO because then the game woudl have been restricted to one or maybe two planets and that would fly in the face of all the lore behind this 30+ year old franchices.
As for the 12 v 12, what little i have seen so far from the devs that will most likley be hecktic enough... This is not a shooter in the sense of CoD or BF... Things look to be a lot slower and once you are down.. you are down. No respawnikng.
This have been a good conversation