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POLL-How long before Blizzard copies GW2 questing design?

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  • AtibraAtibra Seattle, WAPosts: 65Member

    People are confused, probably because of that Red 5 Studio guys post -

     

    GW2 didn't get rid of quest hubs, so stop acting like they did.  A quest hub by definition is a fixed location where a player must go in order to recieve quests. 

     

    In order for Renown Hearts  to activate, you must go to a fixed location within the zone.  The only thing that is different from the typical quest hub is:

    • You do not have to physically pick up/accept the quest.
    • You do not have to physically return to the quest giver to turn in the quest.
     
    What people fail to mention is that Renown Hearts turn into Merchants after you complete the quest.  As such, the game actually does promote you returning to the quest giver in order to buy upgraded equipment or crafting supplies.
     
     
    In order for Dynamic Events to activate, you must go to a fixed location within the zone.  Again. the only thing that is different from a typical quest hub is:
     
    • You do not have to physically pick up/accept the quest.
    • You do not have to physically return to a quest giver to turn in the quest.
    • All players who take place in the event recieve credit for the quest.
     
    So - Quest Hubs are still very much alive and kicking, even within GW2.  The only significant change they made was removing the requirement to pick up and turn in quests.  So players, reviewers and other game developers alike - PLEASE stop over-exaggerating and acting like they just revolutionized questing in the game world.
     
  • TalulaRoseTalulaRose Long Island, NYPosts: 480Member Uncommon

    De's either are a mixture of the 8 scenarios below. And some of them seem to overlap to me.

    • Event boss (map icon).png A specific foe that must be vanquished. -  Kill quest
    • Event cog (map icon).png An object that must be destroyed. - usually defended, killing plus vandalism
    • Event collect (map icon).png A task involving collecting or gathering.
    • Event fist (map icon).png A chaotic brawl. - Kill quest
    • Event flag (map icon).png An area that must be held or claimed. - kill quest
    • Event shield (map icon).png An area or NPC must be protected from harm. - defending + killing again. Opposite of #2 really.
    • Event star (map icon).png A service or assistance that needs to be provided. - so far has been defending myself from being killed.
    • Event swords (map icon).png An issue that must be resolved by force. - more killing
    At the end of the day for me its just some cleverly disguised kill quests.
     
    Hearts
    -      Are in the vicinity of the heart on the map.
    -     They don't show you where the heart objective is but the quest will disapear from the interface once you left the boundaries.  A different way of showing the boundaries of the quest area.
    - Other games make quest items sparkle, this one has an F pop up on screen.
     
     
    Based on the many posts I read on this site, I was expecting more than what it turned out to be.
     
    I think its a decent game, but I do feel the hype was a tad unjustified.
  • YamotaYamota LondonPosts: 6,620Member
    Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter
    Originally posted by nsignific
    Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter

    You just kill all the kobolds because they are being a pest.

    Why will you stop at 10 kobolds and not kill the 11th kobold that is smashing stuff?

    Having to kill an X number of something is silly and only happens because the game isn't reflecting the fact koboldsa are dying - if once you kill. all the kobolds that are being a pest there aren't any more kobolds it is finished without anyone telling y.

    I'm sorry, but no, you don't. If that were the case, why aren't you in the sewers slaying rats in your city, where you live, right now? They're a pest, after all.

    You need an incentive, a reason, if that reason is someone asking you politely.

     

    Otherwise you're just some lunatic who's killing kobolds.

     

    Did I write that clear enough?

    P.S.: don't know what you're on about with the 10,11 kobolds, it's not like you run out of "kobolds" in gw2 either, they're just not represented with a number. is that it, though? Is your brain that easy to fool? A progress bar rather than a number?

    I'll explain.

    WoW-like:

    !Help. bandits are taking over my farm. Kill 10 bandits.

    Bandits everywhere doing nothing. Go out kill 10 bandits. Farm is saved dispite BANDITS EVERYWHERE DOING NOTHING!

    GW2:

    NPC shouting: "Help! Help!  Bandits incoming!"

    Bandits run in start kidnapping farmers and setting fires.

    Kill all the bandits. No more bandits standing up.

    Clearly the farm was saved from the bandits : THERE ARE NO FRIGGING BANDITS LEFT IN THE FARM!

     

    Clearly there is no difference and I'm just silly.

    And 5 minutes later another wave of bandits are invading and getting killed, ad naseum. The "no bandits standing up" is just temporary and I dont see how having a short pause is changing much. It is a little bit better but you, as a player, know that you are not saving anything because those bandits will keep showing up, forever and ever.

  • AeliousAelious Portland, ORPosts: 2,853Member Uncommon

    I'm 100% positive that Titan will have a better system than WoW for delivering content.  However, since Titan has been in production as long as GW2 was, or about, I doubt they are taking queues from them.  For as many resources as Blizzard has to develope Titan I have no idea what to expect though I'm sure it will be epic.

     

    As far as GW2... /sigh, just enjoy the unique way the content is given to you.  "But it's been done bef-" no, not like this it hasn't.  The whole game is based on principles that were spotty in other games and they make playing the game, for those if us who can actually enjoy things, fun.  Yes they are static and rotating events, well up to 35 at least, but they are better than what else is out there IMO.  Complaining that standard questing sucks and trying to compare how GW2 is just like that doesn't make any sense.  You're just looking to complain about something.

  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    Those saying gw2 has quest hubs.

    No DES are not quest hubs. Even if you make a tenuous connection that DE = QUEST

    You are doing ONE at a time.

    What defines quest hubs is going round some village clicking 10 or so ! Marks, looking at the map and then going a route around those playing your shopping list if quests against the map.

    Being a quest hub game is not the same thing as being a game with quests.

    Wow is a quest hub game. Aoc, lotro, aion & swtor are quest hub games, rift & war are also hub games, but at least give you a way to progress in pve without using hubs.

    Gw2 & tsw are not hub based games. Because you don't have the shopping list of quests, you don't have to run back to hand them in and apart from the police station at the start, there's not 1 location with more than 3 quests in tsw case.

    Also old games like daoc had quests, but were not quest hub grinders
  • KaspanovaKaspanova LondonPosts: 61Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by RexNebular

    How long?

    Let's hope never.

    GW2's so called quests are mind numbingly boring.

    ^

    GW2's hearts are mind numbingly boring.

  • AzrileAzrile Houston, MDPosts: 2,582Member
    Originally posted by Krytycal

    I can't see removing quest hubs being too hard to implement, just remove quests givers and make it so the you automatically get the quests whenever you're close to whatever bandits you need to kill, plants you need to water, or NPCs you need to escort.

     

    TADA! Dynamics events.

    WOW already does this in a lot of places.   I believe they started it in Vashre.   One quest I remember in particular was with the eels.  you get close to a swarm of eels and you get an auto-quest to kill some of them.   When they redid the old world in Cata they added a lot of these type of quest.  There is no questgiver, you just get the quest by getting close to the area where the quest happens.

    But funny, WOW had it 2 years ago, but it is going to steal it from GW2?

  • KaspanovaKaspanova LondonPosts: 61Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Azrile
    Originally posted by Krytycal

    I can't see removing quest hubs being too hard to implement, just remove quests givers and make it so the you automatically get the quests whenever you're close to whatever bandits you need to kill, plants you need to water, or NPCs you need to escort.

     

    TADA! Dynamics events.

    WOW already does this in a lot of places.   I believe they started it in Vashre.   One quest I remember in particular was with the eels.  you get close to a swarm of eels and you get an auto-quest to kill some of them.   When they redid the old world in Cata they added a lot of these type of quest.  There is no questgiver, you just get the quest by getting close to the area where the quest happens.

    But funny, WOW had it 2 years ago, but it is going to steal it from GW2?

     

    SWTOR had it, they call it AREA Quests.

  • AzrileAzrile Houston, MDPosts: 2,582Member
    Originally posted by Zenakou
    Never because it would cost too much and take a complete design over haul which would likely upset many of their player base.

    Except it is already in WOW and has been for 2 years.  There are a ton of ´autoget´ quests that have no questgiver and only activate when you get close to the target mobs.

    Here is a  ´heart´ quest from  Catacylsm.. two years ago.  The reason I remembered this one is because i did an alt yesterday through this zone.  There are hundreds of these types of quests throughout wow now.

    http://www.wowhead.com/quest=27729

    In my opinion, I don´t really like them because while some quests have very thin lore or story.. autoaccept ones make no sense.  Ok, so I am supposed to kill 10 eels?  why?  who wants them dead?  me?   Should I be able to create my own quests and get a bonus reward from them?

    Don´t get me wrong, they are ´convienent´.. but isn´t that something wow gets criticized for?  LFD ???  being too convienent?  But when it is for GW2 and not having to actually talk to an NPC to get a quest or a reason for that quest.. then all of a sudden it is ok?

  • TalulaRoseTalulaRose Long Island, NYPosts: 480Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by ShakyMo
    Those saying gw2 has quest hubs.

    No DES are not quest hubs. Even if you make a tenuous connection that DE = QUEST

    You are doing ONE at a time.

    What defines quest hubs is going round some village clicking 10 or so ! Marks, looking at the map and then going a route around those playing your shopping list if quests against the map.

    Being a quest hub game is not the same thing as being a game with quests.

    Wow is a quest hub game. Aoc, lotro, aion & swtor are quest hub games, rift & war are also hub games, but at least give you a way to progress in pve without using hubs.

    Gw2 & tsw are not hub based games. Because you don't have the shopping list of quests, you don't have to run back to hand them in and apart from the police station at the start, there's not 1 location with more than 3 quests in tsw case.

    Also old games like daoc had quests, but were not quest hub grinders

    You can choose to accept one quest at a time in any game that uses quest hubs. You are never forced to accept all at once. It is always up to you to choose how to play the way you wanted whether a game uses quest hubs or doesn't.

     

  • Angier2758Angier2758 Mt. Prospect, ILPosts: 1,011Member
    Originally posted by Misaris

    Blizzard will teach the industry what *real* innovation means. With Titan I´m pretty sure they come up with more than yellow circles and a "dynamic" quest log.

    No need to copy anything from GW2 (please, no cow feeding Blizzard.. please).

    Further *real* innovation, look at World of Darkness and TSW

     I think he's kidding lol.

  • AzrileAzrile Houston, MDPosts: 2,582Member
    Originally posted by xpiher
    Originally posted by Nikkita
    Originally posted by xpiher

    Never because a lot of people are actually complaining about not having quest hubs. So billzard will keep them to keep that market share. Personally I hate quest hubs that send you to next one ect ect. Its boring.

    I saw someone mention TSW as innovative... not really. Adding in Mist style puzzles and making your game more like a single player RPG doesn't innovate. 

     


    Originally posted by Tardcore How long before MoP sales are picking little peices of GW2 sales out of its gigantic teeth? Oh yeah, 14 more days.
    Sorry, but WoW and GW1 were both similarilly successful when released. If anything, the only thing WoW can do is go down because they've already completely expanded their market share. If anything, GW2 is even more casual friendly than WoW is now simply due to the fact that it is F2P. Don't expect WoW to take away anyone from GW2 who isn't playing the game as a filler (which is what most people do between WoW expacs).

     

    Funny because i keep reading how so many are playing GW2 as a  filler due to its B2P model.

    Yes, many are. But typically speaking, when WoW players look for a filler MMO, it doesn't produce 1million + in sales.  Granted, some people playing GW2 wil leave when PS2 comes out. 

    AOC sold 1M boxes, Warhammer almost did also.   Hype does not equal longevity.   AOC even sold 1M boxes knowing there was a subscription after it.   And that, really, has been one of the biggest selling points of GW2, no subs price.   If you put it in that persepective, GW2 really didn´t do that well.  It barely outsold AOC while advertising B2P.

  • rojoArcueidrojoArcueid hell, NJPosts: 6,767Member Uncommon
    im not waiting for Titan because i dont even know any info on that , so if BLizz ever copies ANET's questing system i hope its for WoW. However, if they do that then the 2 games i want to play becomes more similar and i would not have a reason to play one of them. Keep my 2 games of choice different enough so i can play both. No copying please.

    image
  • NikkitaNikkita ParisPosts: 790Member
    Originally posted by roo67
    You seem to have accepted my original arguement that WoW has a lot of very young players in this last post of yours . I don't think GW2 will attract as many players around its lower age range as WoW does even though its a 12+ game . My brothers 8 year old plays WoW without any problem . He just likes going around killing stuff in it . I think younger players would get very confused by GW2 and give it up in frustration . Which is why Blizzard wont copy it .

     

    No didn't accept your original argument. If you were just speculating i would understand but you are trying to pas your opinions as a fact. I can also speculate that GW2 is full of kids but i certainly won't tell you it is infact true.

     What is so complex about GW2 that it will puzzle your 8 year old cousin? he can log in now and kill stuff if that is what he likes to do. Stop trying to make GW2 sound complex when it is not. It holds your hand and and guides you and helps you learn the basics. it is a MMO designed for masses and is not a niche title like EVE. 

    image


    Bite Me

  • waynejr2waynejr2 West Toluca Lake, CAPosts: 4,473Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Kaspanova
    Originally posted by Azrile
    Originally posted by Krytycal

    I can't see removing quest hubs being too hard to implement, just remove quests givers and make it so the you automatically get the quests whenever you're close to whatever bandits you need to kill, plants you need to water, or NPCs you need to escort.

     

    TADA! Dynamics events.

    WOW already does this in a lot of places.   I believe they started it in Vashre.   One quest I remember in particular was with the eels.  you get close to a swarm of eels and you get an auto-quest to kill some of them.   When they redid the old world in Cata they added a lot of these type of quest.  There is no questgiver, you just get the quest by getting close to the area where the quest happens.

    But funny, WOW had it 2 years ago, but it is going to steal it from GW2?

     

    SWTOR had it, they call it AREA Quests.

    And when City of Heroes did it with Rikit Invasion badges it was acomplishments.

  • AzrileAzrile Houston, MDPosts: 2,582Member
    Originally posted by Kaspanova
    Originally posted by Azrile
    Originally posted by Krytycal

    I can't see removing quest hubs being too hard to implement, just remove quests givers and make it so the you automatically get the quests whenever you're close to whatever bandits you need to kill, plants you need to water, or NPCs you need to escort.

     

    TADA! Dynamics events.

    WOW already does this in a lot of places.   I believe they started it in Vashre.   One quest I remember in particular was with the eels.  you get close to a swarm of eels and you get an auto-quest to kill some of them.   When they redid the old world in Cata they added a lot of these type of quest.  There is no questgiver, you just get the quest by getting close to the area where the quest happens.

    But funny, WOW had it 2 years ago, but it is going to steal it from GW2?

     

    SWTOR had it, they call it AREA Quests.

    And UO had champion spawns about 8 years ago that were similar to PQs and Area quests.

    My point isn´t that WOW is very innovative, but it is annoying when fans of a new game think that anything in their game was invented by their devs.   I loved UO back in the day.  I enjoy WOW now.. but I would never look at another game and say ´omg, they stole that from UO´. 

    One of the coolest things I heard about Warhammer was PQs... and they were.. very cool.  But after doing a few, it dawning on me how similar they were to champion spawns in UO.

    I think it was maybe 3-4 years ago the devs of WOW started talking about the ´christmas tree´ problem with WOW´s questing system (ie hubs)... you walk into crossroads, and suddenly 30 yellow dots popped up on your minimap for quests.  So in Wotlk, and to a greater degree in Cata, they streamlined questing to where you have a dozen smaller ´hubs´ per zone rather than 1 or 2 big hubs with 30 quests.   

    In my opinion, i would rather have a quest giver who looks like a person, who is in need of help.  The letter RP are in MMORPG for a reason.  If all you do is enter an area and have a kill counter pop up on your screen.. then it gets a little less like a RPG.

    There could be a lot of great debates about game design on these type of forums, but mostly it comes down to some type of highschool football mentality where ´my team´ is better than your team at everything!!!

    There is nothing wrong with GW2, but there isn´t anything new in it either.  Almost anything in any new game is just iterations based on other things from different game.   The secret is does the feature make the game fun?

  • fatboy21007fatboy21007 triadelphia, WVPosts: 409Member
    its pretty simple people, everything has been tried. Unless u can think of wats inovative, it wont happen, so many years of mmo, everything has been tried, tested, ran to the ground. Sure gw2 did a few new neat things. But can ya honestly think of more ways to do it..lol
  • SukiyakiSukiyaki GreenwichPosts: 1,398Member Uncommon

    Blizzard already tried to implement "dynamic events" shortly after GW2 announced the system. They even promoted them as such.

    They failed horribly to introduce yet another ripoff feature to sell of as their own.

    Dumbing down, met pure incompetence to do produce anything else than clones of other games features and recycling archaic gameconcepts.

    Their so called "dynamic event" was nothing but a single endlessly repeating script spawning their endboss npc on some random preset locations, following a short prescripted path and throw some flames that instakill player. Then plop it gone. More effort and thought was spend to hype and advertise the event than producing it.

    Another "danymic event" was manually turning on spawnpoints (manually placed before) for generic monster in cities and hubs which had a single gathering point some 30m farther away they moved to after spawning in a straight linr and then munally add some more spawns later. And let  the generic monster attack the player for days until they turned the "event" it off, manually of course. Well that was it. I could have just said they manually spawned some mobs in cities once.

    No relations. No environmental changes or physical effects. No cause. No aftereffects. No progression. No branching. No event layering. No event unlocking. No scaling. No permanence. No deepth. No storytelling or gameplay reason. Some not even any bit of interaction. No nothing dynamic at all and any other perks unlike GW2. (Actually it was exactly what WoW kids now try to smear GW2s events to be)

     

    [mod edit]

  • SinsaiSinsai Reno, NVPosts: 236Member Uncommon

    I voted that they would add it to Titan(maybe IMO).

     

    They'll NEVER changed it for WoW,period. 

     

    It's too ingrained into WoW's play style and the existing player experience,nearly a decade I might add,for them to make any major changes like that.

    image

  • EscafandroEscafandro VaticanPosts: 12Member

    I like how some people find GW2 quest system boring but thinks killing 10 wolves than 10 ravenous wolves than 20 ravenous wolves of awesomeness than gather 10 wolves' tails by killing 25 wolves, than gather 15 wolves' claws by killing 30 ravenous wolves a superb quest design.

    Oh and more varied too!

  • TimzillaTimzilla Ramona, CAPosts: 437Member

    Where did you get the impression that these quest designs were new? Granted they are dumbed down a bunch so you don't have to click/chat with an npc or remember what it is you were supposed to be doing, but they're still the same old kill x for y quests that we've had all along. I think it was Warhammer Online that introduced the public questing concept, so who's copying who?

  • sbrite10sbrite10 Vancouver, WAPosts: 71Member
    Originally posted by Misaris

    Blizzard will teach the industry what *real* innovation means. With Titan I´m pretty sure they come up with more than yellow circles and a "dynamic" quest log.

    No need to copy anything from GW2 (please, no cow feeding Blizzard.. please).

    Further *real* innovation, look at World of Darkness and TSW

    Yeah we see how well TSW is doing and World Of Darkness isnt even out so thats really a silly add.GW2 has great questing structure.Besides this whole poll is silly.Who cares if WOW copies it besides the fact its a bit late in WOW's life cycel to make such a drastic change no matter how stale WOW has become.

  • sbrite10sbrite10 Vancouver, WAPosts: 71Member
    Originally posted by Timzilla

    Where did you get the impression that these quest designs were new? Granted they are dumbed down a bunch so you don't have to click/chat with an npc or remember what it is you were supposed to be doing, but they're still the same old kill x for y quests that we've had all along. I think it was Warhammer Online that introduced the public questing concept, so who's copying who?

    Maybe so but not even remotely to the extent of WOW.You can end up chain killing quests to kill a hundred wolves and collect 150 Tails.GW2 doesnt have any such thing and usually the "quests" push along the local sotryline.Not always but usually.Copying a game mechanic is how WOW got to where it is.Efvery mechaninc in that game is copied form other MMO's but no one complains about that do they?

     

  • sbrite10sbrite10 Vancouver, WAPosts: 71Member
    Originally posted by rojo6934
    im not waiting for Titan because i dont even know any info on that , so if BLizz ever copies ANET's questing system i hope its for WoW. However, if they do that then the 2 games i want to play becomes more similar and i would not have a reason to play one of them. Keep my 2 games of choice different enough so i can play both. No copying please.

    No body does but Blizzard but Fanbois of blizzard all hope its the next coming of the MMO.It wont be.Subscription MMO's are all but done for me.I used to love WOW  and honestly dont hate it.Its just old and worn out for me.GW2 is a very Solid game with a ton of content to offer and its BTP.People who dont like it are missing out but thats there perogative.No one in the world can make someone like something if they dont want to.Its pointless to to try.

  • daltaniousdaltanious waPosts: 2,143Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Deathenger

    Also, taking bets that Titan will surely be without quest hubs now thanks to GW2.

     

    Not sure what is wrong with quest hubs for pve. And what GW2 (and before him Rift) is offering is also just a QUEST HUB. Events usually happen at predetermined places (and possibly times), they are little more scattered through landscape ... not really something appealing. I prefer by large measure classical quest hubs. Many require a lot of people at once and this will suffer same fate after a while as Rift with rift invasions etc etc.

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