Well if we see quests in Blizzards later games to throw water on cows and /bow to cows, then we'll know they copied it. But honestly who the heck would put something so dumb as that quest in their game? I mean, besides Arenanet?
Blizzard will teach the industry what *real* innovation means. With Titan I´m pretty sure they come up with more than yellow circles and a "dynamic" quest log.
No need to copy anything from GW2 (please, no cow feeding Blizzard.. please).
Further *real* innovation, look at World of Darkness and TSW
Like Blizzard showed us such amazing innovation after 7 years of development on Diablo 3.
I hope Titan is great but not holding my breath expecting it to be.
I don't know what they were thinking with D3. They removed so many good things from D2. I blame Jay Wilson mainly though. What a crap designer.
I have zero hopes for Titan. Blizzard isn't the company it was when it released WC3 and D2 and heck even WOW vanilla.
Originally posted by hikaru77 GW2 already have quest hubs but is called ¨heart hub¨. Cant wait for MoP, i hate WoW with all my heart,but i cant wait to see how MoP will take more than a Half of the GW2 active population.
LOL now thats a joke and maybe for a day till they relize combat sucks in wow. Heart hubs gotta love it. Guess what you don't have to do those lol.
Heart hubs don't make sense. the idea of a hub is many connections moving out of it, one for each quest at the hub. Hearts are one quest ...
Never because a lot of people are actually complaining about not having quest hubs. So billzard will keep them to keep that market share. Personally I hate quest hubs that send you to next one ect ect. Its boring.
I saw someone mention TSW as innovative... not really. Adding in Mist style puzzles and making your game more like a single player RPG doesn't innovate.
Originally posted by Tardcore How long before MoP sales are picking little peices of GW2 sales out of its gigantic teeth? Oh yeah, 14 more days.
Sorry, but WoW and GW1 were both similarilly successful when released. If anything, the only thing WoW can do is go down because they've already completely expanded their market share. If anything, GW2 is even more casual friendly than WoW is now simply due to the fact that it is F2P. Don't expect WoW to take away anyone from GW2 who isn't playing the game as a filler (which is what most people do between WoW expacs).
Funny because i keep reading how so many are playing GW2 as a filler due to its B2P model.
When will I play together with other people towards the same goal in the open world?
When will I join strangers to clear that cave so both of us can get that chest or that rich ore vein?
When can I shoot the same mob the other guy is already fighting and both get credit?
Why do I have to go kill wolfs after I just killed 20 wolfs in the same spot just because I didn't have a quest?
"Hey mate do you want to party and play together?" "Sure." "Lets do x quest" "Erm I don't have that quest, Where did you get that?" "You do A then B and then you get it" "Bah..."
Yeah, traditional quest hubs have no problems at all and GW2 didn't came up with simple innovative solutions to those problems.
But I guess that dispite everyone wanting a MMORPG to play with people it seems most are affraid of other people outside controlled instances and the spectacular gathering of dozens of players in the same place, fighting the same mobs, is just a "dumb zerg" instead of being the true spirit of a MMO.
P.S.: Yes. DE's scalling could be improve to keep difficulty as more people show up, but give it time since the core foundation is good.
Currently playing: GW2 Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
Never because a lot of people are actually complaining about not having quest hubs. So billzard will keep them to keep that market share. Personally I hate quest hubs that send you to next one ect ect. Its boring.
I saw someone mention TSW as innovative... not really. Adding in Mist style puzzles and making your game more like a single player RPG doesn't innovate.
Originally posted by Tardcore How long before MoP sales are picking little peices of GW2 sales out of its gigantic teeth? Oh yeah, 14 more days.
Sorry, but WoW and GW1 were both similarilly successful when released. If anything, the only thing WoW can do is go down because they've already completely expanded their market share. If anything, GW2 is even more casual friendly than WoW is now simply due to the fact that it is F2P. Don't expect WoW to take away anyone from GW2 who isn't playing the game as a filler (which is what most people do between WoW expacs).
Funny because i keep reading how so many are playing GW2 as a filler due to its B2P model.
Yes, many are. But typically speaking, when WoW players look for a filler MMO, it doesn't produce 1million + in sales. Granted, some people playing GW2 wil leave when PS2 comes out.
Never because a lot of people are actually complaining about not having quest hubs. So billzard will keep them to keep that market share. Personally I hate quest hubs that send you to next one ect ect. Its boring.
I saw someone mention TSW as innovative... not really. Adding in Mist style puzzles and making your game more like a single player RPG doesn't innovate.
Originally posted by Tardcore How long before MoP sales are picking little peices of GW2 sales out of its gigantic teeth? Oh yeah, 14 more days.
Sorry, but WoW and GW1 were both similarilly successful when released. If anything, the only thing WoW can do is go down because they've already completely expanded their market share. If anything, GW2 is even more casual friendly than WoW is now simply due to the fact that it is F2P. Don't expect WoW to take away anyone from GW2 who isn't playing the game as a filler (which is what most people do between WoW expacs).
Funny because i keep reading how so many are playing GW2 as a filler due to its B2P model.
Yes, many are. But typically speaking, when WoW players look for a filler MMO, it doesn't produce 1million + in sales.
And you know that how? the biggest advantage of GW2 is that it is B2P. GW2's success won't be measured by how many are still paying for the sub. Nevertheless, i am confused how you are so sure that when WOW players look for filler MMO it doesn't produce 1 million in sales?
Never because a lot of people are actually complaining about not having quest hubs. So billzard will keep them to keep that market share. Personally I hate quest hubs that send you to next one ect ect. Its boring.
I saw someone mention TSW as innovative... not really. Adding in Mist style puzzles and making your game more like a single player RPG doesn't innovate.
Originally posted by Tardcore How long before MoP sales are picking little peices of GW2 sales out of its gigantic teeth? Oh yeah, 14 more days.
Sorry, but WoW and GW1 were both similarilly successful when released. If anything, the only thing WoW can do is go down because they've already completely expanded their market share. If anything, GW2 is even more casual friendly than WoW is now simply due to the fact that it is F2P. Don't expect WoW to take away anyone from GW2 who isn't playing the game as a filler (which is what most people do between WoW expacs).
Funny because i keep reading how so many are playing GW2 as a filler due to its B2P model.
Yes, many are. But typically speaking, when WoW players look for a filler MMO, it doesn't produce 1million + in sales.
And you know that how? the biggest advantage of GW2 is that it is B2P. GW2's success won't be measured by how many are still paying for the sub. Nevertheless, i am confused how you are so sure that when WOW players look for filler MMO it doesn't produce 1 million in sales?
Simply based on past sales, the number of people left subbed to those games until WoW came out, and the number of people left playing them. TOR and AoC are the ones I can think of. The hype machine pumped those games to million + subs, but people left the games in droves before a new expac of WoW came out due to let down.
Edit: You also are forgetting one other thing GW2 has: NO GEAR GRIND TREADMIL! People are tired of that modle, even WoW players. GW2 is the only game on the market that doesn't have that as its core design for end game.
Never because a lot of people are actually complaining about not having quest hubs. So billzard will keep them to keep that market share. Personally I hate quest hubs that send you to next one ect ect. Its boring.
I saw someone mention TSW as innovative... not really. Adding in Mist style puzzles and making your game more like a single player RPG doesn't innovate.
Originally posted by Tardcore How long before MoP sales are picking little peices of GW2 sales out of its gigantic teeth? Oh yeah, 14 more days.
Sorry, but WoW and GW1 were both similarilly successful when released. If anything, the only thing WoW can do is go down because they've already completely expanded their market share. If anything, GW2 is even more casual friendly than WoW is now simply due to the fact that it is F2P. Don't expect WoW to take away anyone from GW2 who isn't playing the game as a filler (which is what most people do between WoW expacs).
Funny because i keep reading how so many are playing GW2 as a filler due to its B2P model.
Yes, many are. But typically speaking, when WoW players look for a filler MMO, it doesn't produce 1million + in sales.
And you know that how? the biggest advantage of GW2 is that it is B2P. GW2's success won't be measured by how many are still paying for the sub. Nevertheless, i am confused how you are so sure that when WOW players look for filler MMO it doesn't produce 1 million in sales?
Simply based on past sales, the number of people left subbed to those games until WoW came out, and the number of people left playing them. TOR and AoC are the ones I can think of. The hype machine pumped those games to million + subs, but people left the games in droves before a new expac of WoW came out due to let down.
Edit: You also are forgetting one other thing GW2 has: NO GEAR GRIND TREADMIL! People are tired of that modle, even WoW players. GW2 is the only game on the market that doesn't have that as its core design for end game.
That means GW2 active number will fall too when MOP will release?
GW2 has pretty hardcore grind for gear which are dvided in various tiers
The only difference here is that it is not directly tied to dungeons. So for those who like to do gear treadmill they can still do it. What people should say is that GW2 got rid of 'dungeon gear' grind.
Never . Guild Wars pve would be too confusing and hard for the majority of todays Warcraft players . You have to realise theres a limit to what they are capable of grasping . If you make things too hard from they will do what I did with monopoly boards when I was little and losing and throw it up in the air. If such a thing were to happen to a laptop or desktop Blizzard would get lots of complaints from parents about broken computers .
Originally posted by roo67 Never . Guild Wars pve would be too confusing and hard for the majority of todays Warcraft players . You have to realise theres a limit to what they are capable of grasping . If you make things too hard from they will do what I did with monopoly boards when I was little and losing and throw it up in the air. If such a thing were to happen to a laptop or desktop Blizzard would get lots of complaints from parents about broken computers .
This is BS. WOW community have all knid of players with different gaming backgrounds. And many of them ..this is going to be shock for you..also play other MMOS. I have been in multiple guilds in WOW over 5 years and i met a lot of 30+ players who were in army, teachers even doctors and engineers.
When you post nonsense like this it says more about you than entire community you are tryign to generalise on basis of your own limited and narrow thinking.
Isn't it ironic that you are bashing WOW players while being fan of GW2 whose goal is to beat WOW in sales and become number one? there is nothing confusing about GW2 PVE everything is marked on your map and when DE triggers it shows up in big red circles so all you have to do is rush to the spot....and kill.
Heart Quests are quest hubs. You look on the map, go to the location and do quests => Quest Hubs.
Dynamic Events are like Dynamic Quest hubs. You talk to NPC which triggers it or you see one on the map and go to the quest => Quest Hubs.
I know you fanboys want it to be something new and revolutionary but if you look past all the BS it is the same thing but in different clothing.
When was the last time you met someone at a quest hub and you were able to play with that person without partying?
Do you remember killing 40 orcs before reaching to the quest giver to just get a quest to kill 40 orcs in the same exact spot?
Do you remember those quests that involve making you move from point A (being quest hub completed) to point B (new quest hub)?
Do you actually play with strangers in open world without any effort like partying, comparing quest logs, etc?
Oh wait, it doesn't matter because you guys rush the leveling phase/questing phase solo and/or do dungeons instead.
But I guess GW2 making the leveling/questing process a multiplayer affair isntead of a solo affair doesn't qualify as innovation since everyone knows questing in a MMO is solo content.
Currently playing: GW2 Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't WoW already have non-hub quests ala "you get into an area and it just pops up"?
I know that's the case in Cata dungeons (a question mark appears when you get to an area of a dungeon and you just accept it, no NPC involved).
As far as going the way of GW2 - why would you want to play a ROLE playing game where you don't know why you're doing what you're doing? Without some type of structure?
It's one thing entirels to, for example, see a mugging on a street and decide to intervene (you don't need a quest NPC for that), but how do you know you have to kill 10 Kobolds without someone telling you?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't WoW already have non-hub quests ala "you get into an area and it just pops up"?
I know that's the case in Cata dungeons (a question mark appears when you get to an area of a dungeon and you just accept it, no NPC involved).
As far as going the way of GW2 - why would you want to play a ROLE playing game where you don't know why you're doing what you're doing? Without some type of structure?
It's one thing entirels to, for example, see a mugging on a street and decide to intervene (you don't need a quest NPC for that), but how do you know you have to kill 10 Kobolds without someone telling you?
You just kill all the kobolds because they are being a pest.
Why will you stop at 10 kobolds and not kill the 11th kobold that is smashing stuff?
Having to kill an X number of something is silly and only happens because the game isn't reflecting the fact koboldsa are dying - if once you kill. all the kobolds that are being a pest there aren't any more kobolds it is finished without anyone telling y.
Currently playing: GW2 Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
You just kill all the kobolds because they are being a pest.
Why will you stop at 10 kobolds and not kill the 11th kobold that is smashing stuff?
Having to kill an X number of something is silly and only happens because the game isn't reflecting the fact koboldsa are dying - if once you kill. all the kobolds that are being a pest there aren't any more kobolds it is finished without anyone telling y.
I'm sorry, but no, you don't. If that were the case, why aren't you in the sewers slaying rats in your city, where you live, right now? They're a pest, after all.
You need an incentive, a reason, if that reason is someone asking you politely.
Otherwise you're just some lunatic who's killing kobolds.
Did I write that clear enough?
P.S.: don't know what you're on about with the 10,11 kobolds, it's not like you run out of "kobolds" in gw2 either, they're just not represented with a number. is that it, though? Is your brain that easy to fool? A progress bar rather than a number?
Originally posted by kadepsyson Well if we see quests in Blizzards later games to throw water on cows and /bow to cows, then we'll know they copied it. But honestly who the heck would put something so dumb as that quest in their game? I mean, besides Arenanet?
Far better than to kill 10 rats quest's on all WoW crap copied old system and at least its diferent
Originally posted by kadepsyson Well if we see quests in Blizzards later games to throw water on cows and /bow to cows, then we'll know they copied it. But honestly who the heck would put something so dumb as that quest in their game? I mean, besides Arenanet?
Far better than to kill 10 rats quest's on all WoW crap copied old system and at least its diferent
Again, WoW already had this. One example: ordering pack mules to head home by raising your hadn to them (/raise). That was in Lich King, so forget about copying.
Please stop claiming innovation on GW2s behalf when you're not nearly versed enough in the genre. Recognize GW2 for what it is, a good game for sure, but please stop with the innovative bullshit. I have yet to encounter one truly innovative thing in GW2. Most of it reeks of WAR, Tera, WOW and SWTOR, the rest of other minor games.
Blizzard took way too many hard-coded shortcuts during the initial construction in '01-04.
Same reason they're still stuck with (nearly) uncustomizable characters, unscaleable content, fixed loot tables, set pathwalkers, no armor dyes, etc. EQ-era design, more than a decade later.
And you need a level/combat math design that's scalable to even consider it. Full overhaul of some truly massive systems? Basically the entire game from the first boar to the last megadragon? To what benefit, exactly? Cost/benefit says "Nope" pretty firmly.
They had scalable content to examine and copy clear back in '04, and refused to even consider it.
Now, they're fixed-designing every raid and instance twice...still paying the price for taking early shortcuts.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Comments
I don't know what they were thinking with D3. They removed so many good things from D2. I blame Jay Wilson mainly though. What a crap designer.
I have zero hopes for Titan. Blizzard isn't the company it was when it released WC3 and D2 and heck even WOW vanilla.
Heart hubs don't make sense. the idea of a hub is many connections moving out of it, one for each quest at the hub. Hearts are one quest ...
Funny because i keep reading how so many are playing GW2 as a filler due to its B2P model.
Bite Me
I'm a level 1 starting in WoW.
When will I play together with other people towards the same goal in the open world?
When will I join strangers to clear that cave so both of us can get that chest or that rich ore vein?
When can I shoot the same mob the other guy is already fighting and both get credit?
Why do I have to go kill wolfs after I just killed 20 wolfs in the same spot just because I didn't have a quest?
"Hey mate do you want to party and play together?" "Sure." "Lets do x quest" "Erm I don't have that quest, Where did you get that?" "You do A then B and then you get it" "Bah..."
Yeah, traditional quest hubs have no problems at all and GW2 didn't came up with simple innovative solutions to those problems.
But I guess that dispite everyone wanting a MMORPG to play with people it seems most are affraid of other people outside controlled instances and the spectacular gathering of dozens of players in the same place, fighting the same mobs, is just a "dumb zerg" instead of being the true spirit of a MMO.
P.S.: Yes. DE's scalling could be improve to keep difficulty as more people show up, but give it time since the core foundation is good.
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
Yes, many are. But typically speaking, when WoW players look for a filler MMO, it doesn't produce 1million + in sales. Granted, some people playing GW2 wil leave when PS2 comes out.
Games:
Currently playing:Nothing
Will play: Darkfall: Unholy Wars
Past games:
Guild Wars 2 - Xpiher Duminous
Xpiher's GW2
GW 1 - Xpiher Duminous
Darkfall - Xpiher Duminous (NA) retired
AoC - Xpiher (Tyranny) retired
Warhammer - Xpiher
And you know that how? the biggest advantage of GW2 is that it is B2P. GW2's success won't be measured by how many are still paying for the sub. Nevertheless, i am confused how you are so sure that when WOW players look for filler MMO it doesn't produce 1 million in sales?
Bite Me
Simply based on past sales, the number of people left subbed to those games until WoW came out, and the number of people left playing them. TOR and AoC are the ones I can think of. The hype machine pumped those games to million + subs, but people left the games in droves before a new expac of WoW came out due to let down.
Edit: You also are forgetting one other thing GW2 has: NO GEAR GRIND TREADMIL! People are tired of that modle, even WoW players. GW2 is the only game on the market that doesn't have that as its core design for end game.
Games:
Currently playing:Nothing
Will play: Darkfall: Unholy Wars
Past games:
Guild Wars 2 - Xpiher Duminous
Xpiher's GW2
GW 1 - Xpiher Duminous
Darkfall - Xpiher Duminous (NA) retired
AoC - Xpiher (Tyranny) retired
Warhammer - Xpiher
That means GW2 active number will fall too when MOP will release?
GW2 has pretty hardcore grind for gear which are dvided in various tiers
The only difference here is that it is not directly tied to dungeons. So for those who like to do gear treadmill they can still do it. What people should say is that GW2 got rid of 'dungeon gear' grind.
Bite Me
This is BS. WOW community have all knid of players with different gaming backgrounds. And many of them ..this is going to be shock for you..also play other MMOS. I have been in multiple guilds in WOW over 5 years and i met a lot of 30+ players who were in army, teachers even doctors and engineers.
When you post nonsense like this it says more about you than entire community you are tryign to generalise on basis of your own limited and narrow thinking.
Isn't it ironic that you are bashing WOW players while being fan of GW2 whose goal is to beat WOW in sales and become number one? there is nothing confusing about GW2 PVE everything is marked on your map and when DE triggers it shows up in big red circles so all you have to do is rush to the spot....and kill.
Bite Me
Heart Quests are quest hubs. You look on the map, go to the location and do quests => Quest Hubs.
Dynamic Events are like Dynamic Quest hubs. You talk to NPC which triggers it or you see one on the map and go to the quest => Quest Hubs.
I know you fanboys want it to be something new and revolutionary but if you look past all the BS it is the same thing but in different clothing.
My gaming blog
When was the last time you met someone at a quest hub and you were able to play with that person without partying?
Do you remember killing 40 orcs before reaching to the quest giver to just get a quest to kill 40 orcs in the same exact spot?
Do you remember those quests that involve making you move from point A (being quest hub completed) to point B (new quest hub)?
Do you actually play with strangers in open world without any effort like partying, comparing quest logs, etc?
Oh wait, it doesn't matter because you guys rush the leveling phase/questing phase solo and/or do dungeons instead.
But I guess GW2 making the leveling/questing process a multiplayer affair isntead of a solo affair doesn't qualify as innovation since everyone knows questing in a MMO is solo content.
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't WoW already have non-hub quests ala "you get into an area and it just pops up"?
I know that's the case in Cata dungeons (a question mark appears when you get to an area of a dungeon and you just accept it, no NPC involved).
As far as going the way of GW2 - why would you want to play a ROLE playing game where you don't know why you're doing what you're doing? Without some type of structure?
It's one thing entirels to, for example, see a mugging on a street and decide to intervene (you don't need a quest NPC for that), but how do you know you have to kill 10 Kobolds without someone telling you?
You just kill all the kobolds because they are being a pest.
Why will you stop at 10 kobolds and not kill the 11th kobold that is smashing stuff?
Having to kill an X number of something is silly and only happens because the game isn't reflecting the fact koboldsa are dying - if once you kill. all the kobolds that are being a pest there aren't any more kobolds it is finished without anyone telling y.
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
after this red phrase i stop to read text from this troll. No clue about the game.
I'm sorry, but no, you don't. If that were the case, why aren't you in the sewers slaying rats in your city, where you live, right now? They're a pest, after all.
You need an incentive, a reason, if that reason is someone asking you politely.
Otherwise you're just some lunatic who's killing kobolds.
Did I write that clear enough?
P.S.: don't know what you're on about with the 10,11 kobolds, it's not like you run out of "kobolds" in gw2 either, they're just not represented with a number. is that it, though? Is your brain that easy to fool? A progress bar rather than a number?
Far better than to kill 10 rats quest's on all WoW crap copied old system and at least its diferent
Again, WoW already had this. One example: ordering pack mules to head home by raising your hadn to them (/raise). That was in Lich King, so forget about copying.
Please stop claiming innovation on GW2s behalf when you're not nearly versed enough in the genre. Recognize GW2 for what it is, a good game for sure, but please stop with the innovative bullshit. I have yet to encounter one truly innovative thing in GW2. Most of it reeks of WAR, Tera, WOW and SWTOR, the rest of other minor games.
They won't.
Blizzard took way too many hard-coded shortcuts during the initial construction in '01-04.
Same reason they're still stuck with (nearly) uncustomizable characters, unscaleable content, fixed loot tables, set pathwalkers, no armor dyes, etc. EQ-era design, more than a decade later.
And you need a level/combat math design that's scalable to even consider it. Full overhaul of some truly massive systems? Basically the entire game from the first boar to the last megadragon? To what benefit, exactly? Cost/benefit says "Nope" pretty firmly.
They had scalable content to examine and copy clear back in '04, and refused to even consider it.
Now, they're fixed-designing every raid and instance twice...still paying the price for taking early shortcuts.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.