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[Column] Guild Wars 2: Getting Rid of the Grind

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  • GhavriggGhavrigg Halifax, NSPosts: 777Member Uncommon

    This game is actually grind city. It's taking quite a while to level, I have to repeat DE's frequently in order to gain enough levels to continue my Personal Story and move on to new areas.

    That being said, I'll go to new areas, find new events popping up that I didn't see the first time through, and I always get excited when new things pop up. It's very grindy, but it's not as boring as in other games, it seems. I also love the aspect of just wandering out of cities and instantly playing with others because everyone is working together to complete objectives. Even just if I am being attacked by a random monster, someone will generally come by and help me even if not totally necessary, and I always find people will revive me if I get downed or dead.

    It's all just another way of masking the grind, but it's a much more fun way, so I am not minding how long it's taking to level. I assume the end-game wlll be totally grind-heavy with not much else, but i"ll see how that turns out.

    Anyway, good assessment here with this article. Once in a while you guys push out a good one that isn't based on money gain and ignorance.

  • ZekiahZekiah Aurora, COPosts: 2,499Member

    Is this the post-release marketing plan we're seeing? Some very odd articles today.

    Getting rid of the grind? Seriously? Who comes up with this stuff? There's plenty of grind in GW2, that's just silly.

    "Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky

  • BladestromBladestrom edinburghPosts: 4,946Member Uncommon
    Grind is a negative term to describe the repetitive steps needed to achieve a particular goal that you are feel FORCED to complete. If the repetitive steps are available for those that enjoy it but equally does not punish those who don't want to do it then it's not a grind.

    That's The point of gw2 there is no forcing of anything, no peer pressure, no 'must have' rewards, no pressure to find the optimal xp grind route, no tier x must be grinder to keep up with the joneses.

    rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar

    Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D

  • Four0SixFour0Six Missoula, MTPosts: 1,181Member Uncommon

    Level scaling makes it VERY grindy to me.

    I define the "grind' as fighting. So, with the scaling, I feel everywhere is grindy. I can't level up and go faceroll a bunch of mobs to complete a quest, or get to a vista, I actually have to fight at level, making it a grind to me.

  • sirphobossirphobos Ames, IAPosts: 614Member Common
    I'm really starting to hate the word "grind" when used to describe a game.  These days it seems that people use the word "grind" to describe any activity in a game they don't enjoy.
  • BladestromBladestrom edinburghPosts: 4,946Member Uncommon
    Fourosix you can do that very thing, when you downscale you can destroy packs of mobs when you have a good grip of your skill, but muck up and you will get facerolled yourself. Equally I can happily go 1 on 1 and 1 on 2 with mobs 5 levels higher than me, by again you really got to know how to move and control you targets. It's really up to you to find the balance that suits your game play

    rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar

    Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D

  • BladestromBladestrom edinburghPosts: 4,946Member Uncommon
    Yup sirphobos I would agree.

    rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar

    Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D

  • mbolmembolme Edmonds, WAPosts: 48Member
    Originally posted by Bladestrom
    Grind is a negative term to describe the repetitive steps needed to achieve a particular goal that you are feel FORCED to complete. If the repetitive steps are available for those that enjoy it but equally does not punish those who don't want to do it then it's not a grind.

    That's The point of gw2 there is no forcing of anything, no peer pressure, no 'must have' rewards, no pressure to find the optimal xp grind route, no tier x must be grinder to keep up with the joneses.

     

    Well written, and I agree. I am doing things in GW2 to have fun - not level up. Half the time I don't even know what level I am. For me the grind is gone.

    For those who are in it for PvP, and only want to get to 80, I can see it being quite grindy.

    It's all based on whether you enjoy what's happening on the way to 80. I do, so it's no grind.

  • DrolkinDrolkin Palio, NBPosts: 242Member
    Such a misleading title.. there is 100% grind in GW2, wait till 80, hamster wheel time.
  • chefdiablochefdiablo Barrie, ONPosts: 202Member


    Originally posted by QuicklyScott
    Well, it's slightly subjective. I thought the hearts and the DEs were some of the most grindiest content I've ever played.  Although I only did the starter zone DEs.

    I understand that your hate on for GW2 is fueled by some kind of nasty MMO viagra but if you think the starter DEs and hearts were "the most grindiest content" I can't imagine what you would do in any of the old school games.

    I have played games that required the player to kill thousands of mobs at 0.001% xp per kill to make a level. I used to play 12 Sky the original. Max level in that game used to take about 80 to 100 hours depending on xp bonuses and help from party memebers if you could arrange it.

    Damn man, hating the game is fine. Gross hyperbole such as your comments is just the sign of a pure attention seeking troll.

    Up till now I could ignore your barbs but I have finally come to the conclusion you have nothing of value to say.


  • LethalityLethality Apopka, FLPosts: 61Member Uncommon

    GW2 is actually very grindy... moreso than WoW or any recent game in memory, even more than Aion ocne you get to 80.

    Also, has the author nevrer played World of Warcraft?

    I'm not sure how you got "story" out of GW2's zones, but WoW is a master at that. I literally have no idea what the "story" is in any zone I've been in except for "hey more centaurs."

     

     

     
  • GahvnoGahvno Redlands, CAPosts: 15Member
    @doomgrin - bingo. 'Nuff said. After reading these posts, it's clear that some kids just aren't happy unless they have to complain about. Whatever happened to simply relaxing and enjoying the temporary escape?
  • ShodanasShodanas PatrasPosts: 896Member Uncommon
    Has this David North guy actually played the game past level 40? The grind is there like in every other themepark MMO. It is a refined grind, less boring and  less tedious than, let's say, WoW's but it's still grind.
  • darkedone02darkedone02 Louisville, KYPosts: 552Member

    I got bored of the game already playing as a warrior Charr, doing quests in every Area from the lowest to the highest. I am level 43 and been grinding to explore the area, grinding hearts, going though skill points, finding the right locations for getting that vista, and grinding though mobs to level up my crafting to get to tier 3 Weaponsmithing and tier 3 Armorsmithing.

    image

  • nate1980nate1980 Evans, GAPosts: 1,829Member
    Originally posted by Vannor

    They havn't removed the grind at all. To get the most desired items in the game you have to XP grind (for 100 skill points for EACH item) and/or dungeon grind (50+ runs). They removed the need to grind to be competitive, they did not remove the grind. To get those desired items, the grind is worse than in most other MMOs.

    Level grind is gone.. but that's only because they throw experience at you every chance they get. <-- Which I prefer over the old ways. However, it's not because the tasks are more stimulating, you wouldn't keep toasting at tables, collecting the eggs or killing things once the hearts or DE is finished, it's just as boring as any other grind. Lack of linking quest based storylines make almost every heart and every event kinda mundane as well, purposeless. Now we are grinding with even less reasons to grind.

    I want the legendary and armor sets grind gone though, it's just too high.. it ruins the game for me and is the reason I'm not loggin in every day anymore.

    Do be so impatient. The game is meant to be played for months, years even, it is an MMORPG after all. Just do whatever in the game that you find fun and over the weeks/months you'll earn enough points to get those legendary sets.

  • IllyssiaIllyssia LondonPosts: 1,524Member
    People were beating the game very quickly, so while they got rid of the game grind perhaps ArenaNet made the challenge a little to easy.
  • FlawSGIFlawSGI Woodstock, GAPosts: 1,379Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Illyssia
    People were beating the game very quickly, so while they got rid of the game grind perhaps ArenaNet made the challenge a little to easy.

    I kinda agree with this. Having never experienced a real sandbox I don't have that to compare it to(closest I have come was FFXI) I think longevity is going to be an issue although I gotta say I am not having issues with it. 118 hours in and not an once of boredom yet. EXP gain is easy as hell, but I think in the overall game design its trivial anyways so I stopped watching the bar to be honest. I think the game has gotten rid of grinding in some aspects but it's really all about how you look and interpret what grinding really is. To claim their craft system, world exploration, and exp progression is grind is laughable from my understanding.

     

    Offtopic   does anyone know if there is any kind of compensation once you hit 80 since you wont be gaining EXP? I planned on 100% the map on at least one of my characters and thought I remembered seeing an answer somewhere but never found it. If I remember right I think it was skillpoints for a level after 80 but can't find anything solid. 

    RIP Jimmy "The Rev" Sullivan and Paul Gray.

  • ZarriyaZarriya Long Island, NYPosts: 288Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by JeroKane
    Originally posted by Fadedbomb

    Sorry but the grind was NOT removed whatsoever in GuildWars 2, and is even the worst i've seen than some done previously. You see this pretty well with an alt trying to level it.

    Trying to go from 20 to 30 last night on my alt was like pulling teeth. I had already done all that content before on my main (I explored every low tier end area for each race), and it was a literal grind finding xp to level off.

     

    Hearts,

    Events (they aren't dynamic),

    Scripted Boss Fights,

    Scripted Champion Fights,

    Hidden # of bear-butts to obtain by a Progress Bar,

     

     

    Horribly grindy so far, but then again the game is so easy who cares right?

    This! Sorry OP, but this game is as much grinding as any other MMO.

    They just removed quests and replaced them with Events (aka Mythic's WAR public quest system, which Trion copied for their game RIFT as well).

    In fact, this game feels more grindy than any other game, as all these events start becoming stale and repetitive after you've gone through a few zones.

    I actually started missing some good old Storyline quests like in LOTRO and Everquest 2. :-(

    GW2 only has a personal storyline quest series and that's it. :-/

    I have to agree, I actually felt it was more grindy in a way because my actions didnt matter, it just seemed like one big Zerg going form quest to quest.

     
  • AeliousAelious Portland, ORPosts: 2,854Member Uncommon

    If you look for something, you will find it.  When I play GW2 I just go out there and enjoy it and I don't focus on whether what I'm doing is a grind.  "Is it fun?" is the corny, but paramount, question here.  If you find yourself getting bogged down by redundancy I would suggest going to another zone.  Keeps it fresh.

     

    I know I am playing a themepark game with rotating canned events but I don't dwell on that and they hide it better than any game I've played.  I just play the game and let myself get caught into what I'm doing.

     

    On a side note I'm really glad my playing pace is behind the bulk of players.  I've noticed there are still people showing up to events of course but 10 rather than 20-25 and it's more fun.

  • SvarcanumSvarcanum SthlmPosts: 341Member Uncommon
    I've heard from most my friends that gw2 is the grindiest game since Aion. In a way I agree. But I don't mind, since the gameplay is great and I personally love varied grinding.
  • TomBaker_fanTomBaker_fan Elmhurst, ILPosts: 131Member
    Originally posted by Vannor

    They havn't removed the grind at all. To get the most desired items in the game you have to XP grind (for 100 skill points for EACH item) and/or dungeon grind (50+ runs). They removed the need to grind to be competitive, they did not remove the grind. To get those desired items, the grind is worse than in most other MMOs.

    Level grind is gone.. but that's only because they throw experience at you every chance they get. <-- Which I prefer over the old ways. However, it's not because the tasks are more stimulating, you wouldn't keep toasting at tables, collecting the eggs or killing things once the hearts or DE is finished, it's just as boring as any other grind. Lack of linking quest based storylines make almost every heart and every event kinda mundane as well, purposeless. Now we are grinding with even less reasons to grind.

    I want the legendary and armor sets grind gone though, it's just too high.. it ruins the game for me and is the reason I'm not loggin in every day

    Actually they did remove the grind, I play this game and never ever feel like I have to just get through something.

    With the level adjustments I can RVR at any time,  I can go to an lower level and still get good XP for events. I love the fact at level 36 I can go to a level 19 event and get full XP because my level has been adjusted to the zone I am in. I hardly ever even notice what level I am.

     

    The exploration is mind boggling. The cities are HUGE, and the hidden puzzles are a thrill to search for. Not evertything is on the maps which makes it that much more fun for me.

    I read a post where someone said there is no exploring, and laughed. This game offers more exploration tha any MMO to date. The sheer size and all of the underwater areas have kept me busy.

    I am only level 36, but I don't even follow my level. I do have to be careful and not go into higher zones than my level, but I still have lower level zones to e\plore for the first time.

     

    the key to me is getting good XP wherever you quest As long as the levels are close or below).

    I was never sure I would like this game, and I can tll you it has delivered on every promise. 

    image

  • TomBaker_fanTomBaker_fan Elmhurst, ILPosts: 131Member
    Originally posted by Illyssia
    People were beating the game very quickly, so while they got rid of the game grind perhaps ArenaNet made the challenge a little to easy.
     

    You never "beat" the game. No way many players have explored and done every event in every zone. Maybe people who play 20 hours a day, but they will always be done,

    If you take your time, explore, and just PLAY and not make it a race this game is amazing.

     

    There is no reason to race to 80 in this game, which is a breath of fresh air with so many games focused on just "end game"

     

    image

  • TomBaker_fanTomBaker_fan Elmhurst, ILPosts: 131Member
    Originally posted by Zarriya
    Originally posted by JeroKane
    Originally posted by Fadedbomb

    Sorry but the grind was NOT removed whatsoever in GuildWars 2, and is even the worst i've seen than some done previously. You see this pretty well with an alt trying to level it.

    Trying to go from 20 to 30 last night on my alt was like pulling teeth. I had already done all that content before on my main (I explored every low tier end area for each race), and it was a literal grind finding xp to level off.

     

    Hearts,

    Events (they aren't dynamic),

    Scripted Boss Fights,

    Scripted Champion Fights,

    Hidden # of bear-butts to obtain by a Progress Bar,

     

     

    Horribly grindy so far, but then again the game is so easy who cares right?

    This! Sorry OP, but this game is as much grinding as any other MMO.

    They just removed quests and replaced them with Events (aka Mythic's WAR public quest system, which Trion copied for their game RIFT as well).

    In fact, this game feels more grindy than any other game, as all these events start becoming stale and repetitive after you've gone through a few zones.

    I actually started missing some good old Storyline quests like in LOTRO and Everquest 2. :-(

    GW2 only has a personal storyline quest series and that's it. :-/

    I have to agree, I actually felt it was more grindy in a way because my actions didnt matter, it just seemed like one big Zerg going form quest to quest.

     
     

    First off trion was advertising the Rift event system before WAR ever came out. So they copied nothing.

    Every MMO copied UO in that frame of thinking, because UO was the first game that ahad the balls to come out with a sub when people were told a sub game would never work.

    A "grind" to me, is mindless killing the same thing over and over to just finish a damn level so I can move on.

    This game allows you to level scale so you can go back to otehr zones and get great XP and see and do new content.

    There is no grind in this game.

    image

  • FrodoFraginsFrodoFragins Manchester, NHPosts: 2,928Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Lethality

    GW2 is actually very grindy... moreso than WoW or any recent game in memory, even more than Aion ocne you get to 80.

    Leveling in GW2 is far less grindy than WOW.

     

    Endgame in both games is grindy.

  • FailtrainFailtrain QueenstownPosts: 129Member

    The game is actually still quite grindy. Especially the hearts. I feel like the majority of people who are stating otherwise have not even made it past level 60 (which is fine, but that's where I think your opinion may start to change).

    Hearts become very repetitive and the dynamic events just seem like knock-offs of all the other events you've already done. The events are so scripted that the higher level zones usually have a zerg of people running through the events in the same pattern. It doesn't feel dynamic at all and you'll find yourself doing this a lot at the end of the game if you're wanting karma gear.

     

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