I never use the LFD/LFG tool! I'd rather make friends ingame and to build a bond rather than insta-join a group based on my role!
More and More MMO's are becoming solo oriented, so folks can bypass the social part of gaming! people want to go from level 1 to gear the fastest way they can! forget the filling in between. I miss the days of doing fun stuff and actually earning it
+1
This genre seems to cater more and more to those who want it all and want it now. There is hardly any need to talk to eachother (looking at you Dynamic events)
But perhaps I am just a oldschool player that use to know that playing games in this genre takes time, I know due to my playstyle that I can not often group or finds groups also due to the times I can play. But that's okay for me as I know there will be perhaps a weekend and when I take a few day's off or holiday times that I can squize in abit more time to actually do group oriented feature's.
If I want fast action/responses then I have plenty of game genre's to choose from outside of the MMORPG genre. But I am the type of gamer that has certain expectations when playing different genre's means different expectations. Unfortunaly I feel great many new to MMORPG have the same or similar expectations as other genre's.
There are a coupe misconecptions on posts in the discussion, First that people wont leave wow cause they never give other games a chance or because we r somehow stupid ,
I still play wow because i still have fun in wow not because of any of this other stuff, ive tried alot of diffrent mmo's, I just happen to like wow best, I sub to tor and play that also because i find it fun
Ill admit spamming trade for a group when u cant get guildies is a pain in the butt, Its one thing if u have 4 guildies or how many u need who want to run a dungeon to run one without a lfd tool its quite another to spam chat and hope u get a group.
Lfd makes grouping easier but its by now means the only way to run dungeons in wow , or any game ive played its just another way to do them, U can still form a group in guild with guildies and run a dungeon through lfd tool or run to dungeon if u want in wow,
I hated getting to a meeting stone try to summon my group and get ganked by max levels when iw as just trying to run a low level dungeon in wow also, so lfd got rid of that issue for me also.
This genre seems to cater more and more to those who want it all and want it now. There is hardly any need to talk to eachother (looking at you Dynamic events)
Of course i want it when i want to be entertained. What is the reason i should be waiting 20 min before i can play? And once again, if i want to chat, i go to a chat room, or the guild chat channel. When i click that LFD button, i want to go on a dungeon adventure, NOT chat.
But perhaps I am just a oldschool player that use to know that playing games in this genre takes time, I know due to my playstyle that I can not often group or finds groups also due to the times I can play. But that's okay for me as I know there will be perhaps a weekend and when I take a few day's off or holiday times that I can squize in abit more time to actually do group oriented feature's.
May be you are ok with playing to the game's schedule. But i think games should be played to OUR schedule. There is no reason to go out of our way to adhere to an entertainment product.
And it is only ok if the time is fun. That is why devs are taking away the non-fun (to many) activities as requested.
If I want fast action/responses then I have plenty of game genre's to choose from outside of the MMORPG genre. But I am the type of gamer that has certain expectations when playing different genre's means different expectations. Unfortunaly I feel great many new to MMORPG have the same or similar expectations as other genre's.
That is a false dilemma. There is no reason to choose from ANY genre. I choose my games from ALL genre. I look at the specific game. If i want to play co-op group content, i consider MMOs and online ARPGs. The game that has good combat, fast grouping get my time (and may be money).
Why should shackle myself to the history of a genre? If devs want my time or money, they better put in features that i like. I am ALWAYS voting with my time, and wallet. I am sure you will do the same.
Oh give it a rest. Sure spamming chat that your lfg is old hat but pressing a button to join a queue, teleport to the dungeon and faceroll it while no one in the group says a single word and you never see them again is just as useless. Hell they might as well just pop in a group of AI bots, it's not like you could tell the difference.
...
I agree. LFG tools have reduced the other players to NPC's for hire. You don't like the way one is performing, boot him and get another one from the queue. They're all interchangeable and replaceable.
There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own. -- Herman Melville
Oh give it a rest. Sure spamming chat that your lfg is old hat but pressing a button to join a queue, teleport to the dungeon and faceroll it while no one in the group says a single word and you never see them again is just as useless. Hell they might as well just pop in a group of AI bots, it's not like you could tell the difference.
...
I agree. LFG tools have reduced the other players to NPC's for hire. You don't like the way one is performing, boot him and get another one from the queue. They're all interchangeable and replaceable.
You never met someone you like on LFD and put him/her on teh friend list? I have.
And also nothing wrong with "NPC" with some intelligence.
Oh give it a rest. Sure spamming chat that your lfg is old hat but pressing a button to join a queue, teleport to the dungeon and faceroll it while no one in the group says a single word and you never see them again is just as useless. Hell they might as well just pop in a group of AI bots, it's not like you could tell the difference.
...
I agree. LFG tools have reduced the other players to NPC's for hire. You don't like the way one is performing, boot him and get another one from the queue. They're all interchangeable and replaceable.
You never met someone you like on LFD and put him/her on teh friend list? I have.
And also nothing wrong with "NPC" with some intelligence.
No I haven't put anyone on the friend list I've met through the LFG tool. Those groups usually fall apart pretty fast. Rarely do they ever survive the first wipe. I was never a big fan of PUG groups no matter how they formed. Running group content as a guild almost always turns out better.
Playing along side NPC's are great for single player games. I play mmorpg's to play along side real people.
There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own. -- Herman Melville
LFD is a fairly standard feature these days. Personally, I don't like it, but it's not the feature, itself, that concerns me. It's the reasoning for it. The only reason it exists is because people feel the need to grind instanced dungeons for exp/loot/whatever. I think that's the problem. People are even calling for it in GW2. Weird, right?
Most of us know that people are happiest when the connect with other players. The challenge is that people connect in different ways, all of which are healthy.
Common examples of human connection:
1. Deep meaningful friendships (quality over quantity)
2. Shallow but large amounts of friends (quantity over quality)
3. Domination or Leader ( one needs to lead the other to be happy, some even need to enslave others )
4. Follower or Trophy or Slave ( one needs to follow or be rewarded to another to be happy, some even need to be slaves)
MMOs have captured this socialology via Raiding, Group Quests, Meeting locations, and especially LFD. Some want to be Group Leaders, some want to Follow, some want to be a tool to anonymous people, some want to come to their defense.
Catering to only a few social types might limit your player's enjoyment.
The same people that want a LFD tool are the same people that leave a PvP raid because they joined 2mins ago and it is taking to long to get started yet it takes hours sometimes to get a full raid together.
I liked the original EQ method - you had a LFG flag, and you could search easily for everyone who was LFG. You could even refine it by class and level, to find everyone, across the entire server, who voluntarily put themselves up for LFG. You could be anywhere, doing anything, and just /LFG and have the flag show up on your head.
This is also how GW2 does it right now.
That was it. It was simple and semi-effective. You still had to do some legwork, but it made it easy to accomplish. /who all LFG
WoW didn't have that. They had a dungeon finder where you had to run to the dungeon and stand around and wait. It sucked. Badly. No one used it, so everyone just defaulted to trade spam inside the cities.
And with the automatic dungeon finder - I like how easy it is - you just join, and eventually you'll pop up inside a (semi-)functional group for your dungeon. No running to the dungeon, no looking for people, just click and wait. It's very easy and convenient, I like that. The WoW one goes cross-servers, so wait times, even for overloaded classes and obscure dungeons, is pretty low.
I hate a few things about it: * You can't preview the group before you go in. I know with the LFG flag, I could ask a few questions about the group (how long they planned on grouping, if there were anyone I had blacklisted in the group, if the group makeup wasn't going to work), and make a decision before committing. With LFD - I just join group, and then I have to feel like a asshat backing out if it doesn't meet my expectations/desires.
* People from cross-servers, so it's really hard to meet new people and build lasting relationships when your constantly thrown in with new random people. THis is the biggest thing - I mainly do LFG/LFD to meet new people (I don't have a lot of real life friends that play the games I do, and usually am in small guilds), so I would go and run dungeons to meet new people. If I liked them and they made a good impression (usually over the course of several runs), we'd group together more often. In EQ, it wouldn't be uncommon to group with the same people several times over the course of several weeks, and you really got to know people who played on your server in your time zone. With the cross-server LFD, you play once with someone and never see them again.
* You just poof inside your dungeon. It's better than running out there and standing around and waiting, but at the same time, I don't mind actually running to the dungeon with my party - getting there makes the world seem... more real. Just poofing there is more convenient, and when I'm short on time and patience I love it, but really... I don't. I seem somewhat schizophrenic on this issue.
No I haven't put anyone on the friend list I've met through the LFG tool. Those groups usually fall apart pretty fast. Rarely do they ever survive the first wipe. I was never a big fan of PUG groups no matter how they formed. Running group content as a guild almost always turns out better.
Playing along side NPC's are great for single player games. I play mmorpg's to play along side real people.
Not everyone has a guild that is on whether you want a group.
And yes, they don't survive the first wipe. Usually i am the first to be out of there. However, how many friends do i actually need and can keep up with? There are *few* players that i met are good ... granted they are few ... but given the number of groups, there are MORE than enough to fill my friend list.
Heck, usually i won't bother unless i really like the player.
And i play MMORPG to have fun ... and if the game is fun playing like a online co-op game, i will do so.
Originally posted by Thorbrand The same people that want a LFD tool are the same people that leave a PvP raid because they joined 2mins ago and it is taking to long to get started yet it takes hours sometimes to get a full raid together.
HOURS to get a full raid .. of course i am out of there. Who has time to wait HOURS to play a GAME? I don't. May be you do.
Comments
I realize you're just trying to start flame wars as usual Narius but I dont really see where any discussion can come from this.
"Wow-esque" games deserve "Wow-esque" features. Non-"wow clones" don't/shouldn't use WoW's features.
The above is my personal opinion. Anyone displaying a view contrary to my opinion is obviously WRONG and should STHU. (neener neener)
-The MMO Forum Community
You haven't seen the whole page of discussions? Some say they like it. Some say they don't. Do i have to quote?
And ""Wow-esque" games deserve "Wow-esque" features. Non-"wow clones" don't/shouldn't use WoW's features" is a very narrow minded view.
Games should consider any features that make them better, more fun to their players.
+1
This genre seems to cater more and more to those who want it all and want it now. There is hardly any need to talk to eachother (looking at you Dynamic events)
But perhaps I am just a oldschool player that use to know that playing games in this genre takes time, I know due to my playstyle that I can not often group or finds groups also due to the times I can play. But that's okay for me as I know there will be perhaps a weekend and when I take a few day's off or holiday times that I can squize in abit more time to actually do group oriented feature's.
If I want fast action/responses then I have plenty of game genre's to choose from outside of the MMORPG genre. But I am the type of gamer that has certain expectations when playing different genre's means different expectations. Unfortunaly I feel great many new to MMORPG have the same or similar expectations as other genre's.
There are a coupe misconecptions on posts in the discussion, First that people wont leave wow cause they never give other games a chance or because we r somehow stupid ,
I still play wow because i still have fun in wow not because of any of this other stuff, ive tried alot of diffrent mmo's, I just happen to like wow best, I sub to tor and play that also because i find it fun
Ill admit spamming trade for a group when u cant get guildies is a pain in the butt, Its one thing if u have 4 guildies or how many u need who want to run a dungeon to run one without a lfd tool its quite another to spam chat and hope u get a group.
Lfd makes grouping easier but its by now means the only way to run dungeons in wow , or any game ive played its just another way to do them, U can still form a group in guild with guildies and run a dungeon through lfd tool or run to dungeon if u want in wow,
I hated getting to a meeting stone try to summon my group and get ganked by max levels when iw as just trying to run a low level dungeon in wow also, so lfd got rid of that issue for me also.
I agree. LFG tools have reduced the other players to NPC's for hire. You don't like the way one is performing, boot him and get another one from the queue. They're all interchangeable and replaceable.
There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own.
-- Herman Melville
You never met someone you like on LFD and put him/her on teh friend list? I have.
And also nothing wrong with "NPC" with some intelligence.
No I haven't put anyone on the friend list I've met through the LFG tool. Those groups usually fall apart pretty fast. Rarely do they ever survive the first wipe. I was never a big fan of PUG groups no matter how they formed. Running group content as a guild almost always turns out better.
Playing along side NPC's are great for single player games. I play mmorpg's to play along side real people.
There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own.
-- Herman Melville
I never use it or need it. Friends, guildies with a quick shout and you have a group to do a dungeon.
Just saying why join a pure pug with a tool?
I hope the LFD does become standard.
Most of us know that people are happiest when the connect with other players. The challenge is that people connect in different ways, all of which are healthy.
Common examples of human connection:
1. Deep meaningful friendships (quality over quantity)
2. Shallow but large amounts of friends (quantity over quality)
3. Domination or Leader ( one needs to lead the other to be happy, some even need to enslave others )
4. Follower or Trophy or Slave ( one needs to follow or be rewarded to another to be happy, some even need to be slaves)
MMOs have captured this socialology via Raiding, Group Quests, Meeting locations, and especially LFD. Some want to be Group Leaders, some want to Follow, some want to be a tool to anonymous people, some want to come to their defense.
Catering to only a few social types might limit your player's enjoyment.
-Blitz
Werewolf Online(R) - Lead Developer
I have a love-hate relationship with this.
I liked the original EQ method - you had a LFG flag, and you could search easily for everyone who was LFG. You could even refine it by class and level, to find everyone, across the entire server, who voluntarily put themselves up for LFG. You could be anywhere, doing anything, and just /LFG and have the flag show up on your head.
This is also how GW2 does it right now.
That was it. It was simple and semi-effective. You still had to do some legwork, but it made it easy to accomplish.
/who all LFG
WoW didn't have that. They had a dungeon finder where you had to run to the dungeon and stand around and wait. It sucked. Badly. No one used it, so everyone just defaulted to trade spam inside the cities.
And with the automatic dungeon finder - I like how easy it is - you just join, and eventually you'll pop up inside a (semi-)functional group for your dungeon. No running to the dungeon, no looking for people, just click and wait. It's very easy and convenient, I like that. The WoW one goes cross-servers, so wait times, even for overloaded classes and obscure dungeons, is pretty low.
I hate a few things about it:
* You can't preview the group before you go in. I know with the LFG flag, I could ask a few questions about the group (how long they planned on grouping, if there were anyone I had blacklisted in the group, if the group makeup wasn't going to work), and make a decision before committing. With LFD - I just join group, and then I have to feel like a asshat backing out if it doesn't meet my expectations/desires.
* People from cross-servers, so it's really hard to meet new people and build lasting relationships when your constantly thrown in with new random people. THis is the biggest thing - I mainly do LFG/LFD to meet new people (I don't have a lot of real life friends that play the games I do, and usually am in small guilds), so I would go and run dungeons to meet new people. If I liked them and they made a good impression (usually over the course of several runs), we'd group together more often. In EQ, it wouldn't be uncommon to group with the same people several times over the course of several weeks, and you really got to know people who played on your server in your time zone. With the cross-server LFD, you play once with someone and never see them again.
* You just poof inside your dungeon. It's better than running out there and standing around and waiting, but at the same time, I don't mind actually running to the dungeon with my party - getting there makes the world seem... more real. Just poofing there is more convenient, and when I'm short on time and patience I love it, but really... I don't. I seem somewhat schizophrenic on this issue.
Not everyone has a guild that is on whether you want a group.
And yes, they don't survive the first wipe. Usually i am the first to be out of there. However, how many friends do i actually need and can keep up with? There are *few* players that i met are good ... granted they are few ... but given the number of groups, there are MORE than enough to fill my friend list.
Heck, usually i won't bother unless i really like the player.
And i play MMORPG to have fun ... and if the game is fun playing like a online co-op game, i will do so.
HOURS to get a full raid .. of course i am out of there. Who has time to wait HOURS to play a GAME? I don't. May be you do.
Because it is fast?
Not everyone has friends and guildies available whenever you want them. They don't live on your scheduel, do they?
And if i want a PUG, a tool is much better than shouting in chat, and whispering people.