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[Column] General: Quest Hubs Are Dead, Finally!

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  • ThorbrandThorbrand West Palm Beach, FLPosts: 1,198Member
    Why do you think they never had them in the beginning? They are useless and kill the game. Now if we can get devs to make worlds again!!!
  • observerobserver Houston, TXPosts: 3,013Member Uncommon

    A lot of you are missing the point entirely.  Hearts in GW2 are not quest hubs.  They are called Heart Tasks.  These tasks are not required to progress your level or character.  In GW2, you can level up efficiently by doing other tasks.  WvW, Gathering & Crafting, Exploring, Zone Completion, Vistas, Dynamic Events, Puzzles.  All these are alternative ways of leveling and progressing, which do not require Heart Tasks at all.

    In WoW, and other MMOs, it is required to use Quest Hubs to level.  PvP is the exception, but the xp gain is too minimal anyway.

  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer ChairPosts: 5,596Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by Zekiah

    Originally posted by Yamota Sorry but replacing something (quest hubs) with something which is quite similar (heart quests, clearly marked out on the map) is not killing the former thing. But it kind of shows why the state of MMORPG industry is so stale because changes are so small and minute that they really dont matter. I mean what is the big difference between going to an NPC with an exclamation mark and getting a quest and going to a heart icon on the map to do a quest? Even dynamic quests are not that different, it is basically like a moving NPC with an exclamation mark except you dont need to click on the exclamation mark. It is different but more similar than different.
    Dead on.

    Devs are so eager to take credit for some awesome, industry-changing game mechanic that they become blinded by their own perceived magnificence.

    The only difference in "quest hubs" and "location quests" is that you don't have to talk to an NPC to get one. If that's evolutionary and industry-changing, the MMO industry is in trouble. The future looks bleak if you ask me.


    Rift's Instant Adventures and Zone invasions are more dynamic than Hearts and DEs (not by a huge margin, but still) I'd prefer a system that expanded on what Rift has done than what GW2 has done.

    To me, Rift's Zone Invasions are still the best open world PVE experience currently offered in MMOs. It's why I'm going back to that game and am really interested to see what they have done with the expansion.

  • AtibraAtibra Seattle, WAPosts: 65Member

    Before making a grand statement like "Quest Hubs are Dead" should you not define what your interpretation of a Quest Hub is?

     

    My definition, and the general defenition from a quick web search:

    Quest Hub:  Location in a zone that contains a number of NPCs that give Quests.

     

    So - let's filter this definition through GW2 to see if Quest Hubs are truly dead:

     

    Renown Hearts: As defined by GW2 wiki are - Area anchored by specific NPCs with supporting lore and local goals that need to be accomplished.

     

    My Interpretation of Renown Hearts: This is not the death of Quest Hubs, it's simply an enhancement or an evolution of quest hubs.  You are still directed to a certain area, you still must achieve particular tasks as defined by an NPC in that area.  The  primary difference is not being forced to go back to turn in the quest.  However, Renown Heart NPCs shift into Merchants after you complete their task - promoting you to actually return to them to see what goods they have to offer; typically they provide level appropriate items and rare crafting materials that could hinder your progression if completely ignored.

     

     

    Dyanmic Events:  As defined by GW2 wiki are - Events that occur in a persistent area.

     

    My interpretation of Dynamic Events:  Again, not the death of Quest Hubs, simply an enhancement or an evolution of the same concept.  Due to the events occurring in a persistent area, you must travel to a specific location in order to take part in the event.  The primary difference once more being that you do not have to "turn in" the quest, and that success is area wide - as long as you took place in the event.

     

    Conclusion:  Take 100 new Orc players in WoW, they will start at Razor Hill.. complete the associated tasks, and then move on to the next area.   Take the same 100 new Human players in GW2, they will start at Queensdale.. complete the associated tasks, and then move on to Kessex Hills and spend the next 12 levels running around in a circle from Bandits to Bridge to Lieutenants to Overlord (the problem with fixed dynamed events).

     

    You're still forcing people to set locations for "optimal" character progression - and thus, the essence of the Quest Hub continues.  For anyone who plans on responding back saying "you have the option to level outside the "optimal" progression - the same goes for WoW, so that arguement is moot.

     

     
     
  • SlukjanSlukjan Burlington, VTPosts: 251Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Sylvarii

    Are we supposed to take this guy seriously lol.

    "quest hubs are dead" hmm that's strange because the number one game on this site now GW2 has been released has all the claasic quest and marker hub system of game like WOW.

    GW2 system will be short lived,it's just not enough,i good mixture of both is what's needed.Any dev team thinking of doing what GW2 has don't may want to think again,give it another few weeks and many people will soon realise that it really is tedious.

     yea but the way you do the quests is different. you explore the zone however you want...instead of straight up linear, you go wherever you want and you arent forced to stay in the same area until the quests are done.

  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer ChairPosts: 5,596Member Uncommon

    There are also the inherent flaws with DEs. One I rand into yesterday a few times.
    As time wears on and the Server populations decrease as well as the average level of the player base advances,zones populations begin to thin. I was wondering in an area looking to finish up hearts and stumbled on a DE with a champion fight. I was alone and no match for it. There's one more DE skipped.

  • MumboJumboMumboJumbo LondonPosts: 3,221Member

    Q: Has anyone categorized the major types of DEs yet (and variations of)?

    edit: I don't mean:

     

    • A specific foe that must be vanquished.
    •  An object that must be destroyed.
    •  A task involving collecting or gathering.
    •  A chaotic brawl.
    •  An area that must be held or claimed.
    •  An area or NPC must be protected from harm.
    •  A service or assistance that needs to be provided.
    •  An issue that must be resolved by force.
    I mean: Parameters: Timer differences, Number of Stage differences, Branching events involved etc....
  • grummzgrummz Aliso Viejo, CAPosts: 56Member
    Again, the article is an editorial, representing my opinion. It is not journalism in the sense of reporting news in a balanced fashion. GW2 has its flaws, and the DE system has its issues, but to keep the article to point, I just focused on what GW2 is doing to change the way game devs will be thinking about their MMOs in the future.
  • OzmodanOzmodan Hilliard, OHPosts: 7,191Member Uncommon

    First off, I don't have a problem with quest hubs, although I will agree they lessen the challenge of the game.  But I will agree that the way GW2 works is much better.  Reminds me sort of the way AC1 worked, quests were all over, you just had to find them.  Funny, I still think, despite really dated graphics that AC1 is above and beyond most of these current MMO's.

    GW2 is refreshing since they took the risk to change what are considered necessary pieces to the MMO bundle. 

    GW2 is not perfect, it is still level based, so as you advance lower level areas become empty, no reason to go back to them.  I would also prefer a skill based system instead like Eve has.  The level system, introduced by D&D definitely detracts from a game imo.

  • DakirnDakirn Kansas City, MOPosts: 374Member Uncommon

    Are we playing the same game?

     

    Not only are quest hubs alive and well, it's actually worse.  Now you have to WAIT for an "event" to happen in an area (or grind out heart quests which are just... a single quest).  I always love seeing my "hero" gathering rabit food, or yeti fur, or some other mundane task.

     

    Please explain to me what's dead about the quest hub.  The events are exactly the same every time in the exact same order.  Yes, even at 80.  The "failed" events don't add as much variation as everyone seems to think.

     

    Fortunately I was able to mostly level to 80 by exploring, gathering and crafting... but quest hubs dead?  No way.

     

    Down leveling was a good idea until it's in practice.  It's still a challenge sure, but if I'm downleveled to 32 and I'm getting level 25 weapons what's the point?  I get much better XP, Karma and actual drops for my level by doing level appropriate content.

     

    You just traded exclamation marks for hearts (or that little box icon to turn in picked up items).

  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer ChairPosts: 5,596Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by grummz
    Again, the article is an editorial, representing my opinion. It is not journalism in the sense of reporting news in a balanced fashion. GW2 has its flaws, and the DE system has its issues, but to keep the article to point, I just focused on what GW2 is doing to change the way game devs will be thinking about their MMOs in the future.

    Has there been an evolution? Sure. But to say it's killed them? No, As i said, Rift's IAs have done a better job of killing Quest Hubs than Hearts and DEs

    You can argue and say that Hearts and DE's are more fun or better than What rift offers, but from a technical stand point IA's have no HUBs whatsoever. In Rift, you right click your UI menu and select Join IA, you are then joined to a raid group and offered a teleport directly to the quest.
    The quest auto spawns in your quest list and you go from quest to quest to quests without ever needing to interact with an npc. Your rewards are delivered directly into your inventory. They take you to all corners of the zones. Yes they repeat. But Trion is constantly adding to them.

    EDIT:
    Also, to add a touch of balance. IA's aren't enough in and of themselves. You still need Quest Hubs. Why get rid of them? Incorporate them, add them in, mix all these methods into a game full of options.

  • illmaculateillmaculate Kamloops, BCPosts: 11Member
    What a ridiculous article. Instead of talking to an NPC with a "!" above his head you wander into an area to do the same thing you'd do following talking to said NPC. Quest hubs in GW2 are entire zones. Derp.
  • PurutzilPurutzil East Stroudsburg, PAPosts: 2,925Member Uncommon
    How are they dead? Its just a condensed quest hub with automatic aquiring of the quest and objectives placed together... they aren't dead its just there in a new form... something that isn't bad mind you, but still you can't claim they are dead.
  • zellmerzellmer Fakesville, WIPosts: 442Member

    Uh huh..

    You guys posted similar crap about Star Wars the old republic and "story driven quests" along with more "game changing and can never go back to the old" type of junk..

    This is insulting almost..

     

     

  • Angier2758Angier2758 Mt. Prospect, ILPosts: 1,011Member

    You know when you do a lower level zone you get drops appropriate to your level for the most part right?

    Unless I'm extremely lucky I've gotten 90-95% of my drops at my level even if I'm 10-20 lvls higher.

  • itgrowlsitgrowls newport news, VAPosts: 2,951Member

    Just love the nonsense posts here in these forums about games these people obviously don't play. Claiming that GW2 questing is linear is like saying that the earth is still flat or that it's the center of the solar system.

    Wandering around one runs into the zones that DE events happen in, one doesn't get directed to go to the next town by a quest handed to you by the quest hub guy you just stumble onto them.

    Add the feature of hidden underground and underwater zones the mixup is complete. I went inside the norn mine via swimming underwater in their small river and ended up where the dredge were mining the mountain in the norn area instead of going the standard way through the heart area (hearts deplete over time so there eventually ARE no guides aside from the shield or boss symbols on the map as only SOME events are occurring),

    And Drops scale to your level, you don't get a level 1 item when you are level 80 fighting a level 15 vet/miniboss.

    So where these weird haters are fabricating these notions is beyond me. They really are getting tiresome spreading nonsense about a game they really have no intention of ever playing and need to spend their time playing some other title instead of lying about this one.

     

    Quest hubs are dead, the holy trinity is dead. Get over it move on and have fun. That's my advice to them.

  • illmaculateillmaculate Kamloops, BCPosts: 11Member
    Originally posted by itgrowls

    Just love the nonsense posts here in these forums about games these people obviously don't play. Claiming that GW2 questing is linear is like saying that the earth is still flat or that it's the center of the solar system.

    Wandering around one runs into the zones that DE events happen in, one doesn't get directed to go to the next town by a quest handed to you by the quest hub guy you just stumble onto them.

    Add the feature of hidden underground and underwater zones the mixup is complete. I went inside the norn mine via swimming underwater in their small river and ended up where the dredge were mining the mountain in the norn area instead of going the standard way through the heart area (hearts deplete over time so there eventually ARE no guides aside from the shield or boss symbols on the map as only SOME events are occurring),

    And Drops scale to your level, you don't get a level 1 item when you are level 80 fighting a level 15 vet/miniboss.

    So where these weird haters are fabricating these notions is beyond me. They really are getting tiresome spreading nonsense about a game they really have no intention of ever playing and need to spend their time playing some other title instead of lying about this one.

     

    Quest hubs are dead, the holy trinity is dead. Get over it move on and have fun. That's my advice to them.

    Rabid fanboy post.

    Actually, if you follow the story quest it progresses you into the zone (aka quest hub) you need to be in for your level. Thanks for trying.

  • LorkiiLorkii Vancouver, BCPosts: 88Member
    Originally posted by Slukjan
    Originally posted by Sylvarii

    Are we supposed to take this guy seriously lol.

    "quest hubs are dead" hmm that's strange because the number one game on this site now GW2 has been released has all the claasic quest and marker hub system of game like WOW.

    GW2 system will be short lived,it's just not enough,i good mixture of both is what's needed.Any dev team thinking of doing what GW2 has don't may want to think again,give it another few weeks and many people will soon realise that it really is tedious.

     yea but the way you do the quests is different. you explore the zone however you want...instead of straight up linear, you go wherever you want and you arent forced to stay in the same area until the quests are done.

    You can do that in almost every MMO I ve played.  I ve never been forced to stay in an area, or not go to a certain area ever.

  • elockeelocke Manassas, VAPosts: 4,205Member Uncommon

    I don't mind quest hubs, as long as the game has a TON of them in different zones for any given level.  That's the issue.  That's why WoW succeeded and it's clones did not.  They have their place, for that "type" of game.  However, I am fully sucked into GW2 right now and loving that mode of questing just as much.  The key, again, is options/choices on where to go to level at any given level and there are a ton of them.  It makes the world feel like a world and takes away the linear hub to hub design of smaller games like SWTOR.  

    I think if games continue with the quest hubs they need to take into account how GW2 does it, by giving 4 or 5 different tasks all close by and not having you have to run back and forth to the quest giver every time you complete a quest.  Or just copy GW2 flat out lol, wouldn't bother me either.  

    image
  • itgrowlsitgrowls newport news, VAPosts: 2,951Member
    Originally posted by illmaculate
    Originally posted by itgrowls

    Just love the nonsense posts here in these forums about games these people obviously don't play. Claiming that GW2 questing is linear is like saying that the earth is still flat or that it's the center of the solar system.

    Wandering around one runs into the zones that DE events happen in, one doesn't get directed to go to the next town by a quest handed to you by the quest hub guy you just stumble onto them.

    Add the feature of hidden underground and underwater zones the mixup is complete. I went inside the norn mine via swimming underwater in their small river and ended up where the dredge were mining the mountain in the norn area instead of going the standard way through the heart area (hearts deplete over time so there eventually ARE no guides aside from the shield or boss symbols on the map as only SOME events are occurring),

    And Drops scale to your level, you don't get a level 1 item when you are level 80 fighting a level 15 vet/miniboss.

    So where these weird haters are fabricating these notions is beyond me. They really are getting tiresome spreading nonsense about a game they really have no intention of ever playing and need to spend their time playing some other title instead of lying about this one.

     

    Quest hubs are dead, the holy trinity is dead. Get over it move on and have fun. That's my advice to them.

    Rabid fanboy post.

    Actually, if you follow the story quest it progresses you into the zone (aka quest hub) you need to be in for your level. Thanks for trying.

    Rabid hater post, i haven't followed my story quest, haven't had a need to and I've leveled just fine without the need to follow the "completely optional" personal story questline to get to where I've wanted. 

    And that's my point. Saying this game is linear is really not looking at the whole picture, but why expect anything else from these people?

  • DignaDigna City, CTPosts: 2,014Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Angier2758

    You know when you do a lower level zone you get drops appropriate to your level for the most part right?

    Unless I'm extremely lucky I've gotten 90-95% of my drops at my level even if I'm 10-20 lvls higher.

    I took my level 80 back to the starter zones and got 0 items at my level. I had thought that the drops were supposed to have been higher level so I was psyched about clearing maps and still getting rewards for my actual level. Was disappointing.

    (Unless it was fixed or changed last week which is when I last went on with the lvl 80)

  • LorkiiLorkii Vancouver, BCPosts: 88Member
    Lol, "i know you are but what am I" thats what some posters remind me of. Get over it, everyone doesn t like GW2. It won t kill quest hubs, nor the trinity. Those will be around for a long time. Will they change them up a bit, sure, but the mosy successful game still going uses them, so it s obviously not going anywhere. I know if every game followed GW2 way, I would quit MMOs. Now before you go all crazy on me, that is my opinion.
  • illmaculateillmaculate Kamloops, BCPosts: 11Member
    Originally posted by itgrowls
    Originally posted by illmaculate
    Originally posted by itgrowls

    Just love the nonsense posts here in these forums about games these people obviously don't play. Claiming that GW2 questing is linear is like saying that the earth is still flat or that it's the center of the solar system.

    Wandering around one runs into the zones that DE events happen in, one doesn't get directed to go to the next town by a quest handed to you by the quest hub guy you just stumble onto them.

    Add the feature of hidden underground and underwater zones the mixup is complete. I went inside the norn mine via swimming underwater in their small river and ended up where the dredge were mining the mountain in the norn area instead of going the standard way through the heart area (hearts deplete over time so there eventually ARE no guides aside from the shield or boss symbols on the map as only SOME events are occurring),

    And Drops scale to your level, you don't get a level 1 item when you are level 80 fighting a level 15 vet/miniboss.

    So where these weird haters are fabricating these notions is beyond me. They really are getting tiresome spreading nonsense about a game they really have no intention of ever playing and need to spend their time playing some other title instead of lying about this one.

     

    Quest hubs are dead, the holy trinity is dead. Get over it move on and have fun. That's my advice to them.

    Rabid fanboy post.

    Actually, if you follow the story quest it progresses you into the zone (aka quest hub) you need to be in for your level. Thanks for trying.

    Rabid hater post, i haven't followed my story quest, haven't had a need to and I've leveled just fine without the need to follow the "completely optional" personal story questline to get to where I've wanted. 

    And that's my point. Saying this game is linear is really not looking at the whole picture, but why expect anything else from these people?

    So those zone titles that CLEARLY identify the target level range aren't geared toward a particular quest level? rofl just stop. Ridiculous.

  • KaosProphetKaosProphet Edmonton, ABPosts: 379Member
    Originally posted by itgrowls
    Originally posted by illmaculate
    Originally posted by itgrowls

    Just love the nonsense posts here in these forums about games these people obviously don't play. Claiming that GW2 questing is linear is like saying that the earth is still flat or that it's the center of the solar system.

    Wandering around one runs into the zones that DE events happen in, one doesn't get directed to go to the next town by a quest handed to you by the quest hub guy you just stumble onto them.

    Add the feature of hidden underground and underwater zones the mixup is complete. I went inside the norn mine via swimming underwater in their small river and ended up where the dredge were mining the mountain in the norn area instead of going the standard way through the heart area (hearts deplete over time so there eventually ARE no guides aside from the shield or boss symbols on the map as only SOME events are occurring),

    And Drops scale to your level, you don't get a level 1 item when you are level 80 fighting a level 15 vet/miniboss.

    So where these weird haters are fabricating these notions is beyond me. They really are getting tiresome spreading nonsense about a game they really have no intention of ever playing and need to spend their time playing some other title instead of lying about this one.

     

    Quest hubs are dead, the holy trinity is dead. Get over it move on and have fun. That's my advice to them.

    Rabid fanboy post.

    Actually, if you follow the story quest it progresses you into the zone (aka quest hub) you need to be in for your level. Thanks for trying.

    Rabid hater post, i haven't followed my story quest, haven't had a need to and I've leveled just fine without the need to follow the "completely optional" personal story questline to get to where I've wanted. 

    And that's my point. Saying this game is linear is really not looking at the whole picture, but why expect anything else from these people?

    If you take out the linear options then you get a subset of people complaining about not knowing what they're "supposed" to do.  In fact, these people are arguably as responsible for killing the sandbox as open PvP was - since they voted (with their dollars) against even sandboxes with no PvP.

    But if you leave it in, you get others complaining that it's still a "linear questhub game."  Even if that linear side is entirely optional.

    TL;DR version:  haters gonna hate.
  • Angier2758Angier2758 Mt. Prospect, ILPosts: 1,011Member
    Originally posted by illmaculate
    Originally posted by itgrowls

    Just love the nonsense posts here in these forums about games these people obviously don't play. Claiming that GW2 questing is linear is like saying that the earth is still flat or that it's the center of the solar system.

    Wandering around one runs into the zones that DE events happen in, one doesn't get directed to go to the next town by a quest handed to you by the quest hub guy you just stumble onto them.

    Add the feature of hidden underground and underwater zones the mixup is complete. I went inside the norn mine via swimming underwater in their small river and ended up where the dredge were mining the mountain in the norn area instead of going the standard way through the heart area (hearts deplete over time so there eventually ARE no guides aside from the shield or boss symbols on the map as only SOME events are occurring),

    And Drops scale to your level, you don't get a level 1 item when you are level 80 fighting a level 15 vet/miniboss.

    So where these weird haters are fabricating these notions is beyond me. They really are getting tiresome spreading nonsense about a game they really have no intention of ever playing and need to spend their time playing some other title instead of lying about this one.

     

    Quest hubs are dead, the holy trinity is dead. Get over it move on and have fun. That's my advice to them.

    Rabid fanboy post.

    Actually, if you follow the story quest it progresses you into the zone (aka quest hub) you need to be in for your level. Thanks for trying.

     

     And your post is a rabid hater post....calling an entire zone a quest hub is stretching it don't you think?  Also you fail to mention that you can do other zones at no detriment to your character (maybe even a benefit to go do all the low level zones first).

    The DEs are what people asked for on these forums... a random guy goes "Hey my daughrt is missing the centaurs probably took her as a slave up in the hills nearby; can you help me?!" If weren't caring or paying attention you'd miss it.  Apparently that's just another quest though.... seems like people want everything at once.  I want to be led around by the nose when I need it, but I also want a sandbox at the same time... but I want purpose too!"

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