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Can I just say that people who play mmorpg's complain about them the most. It SOUNDS like you guys want to play single player games like ffxiii or god of war, because there is no way for a developer to put as much variety as you are asking for into an rpg with current technology.
I've played WOW and LOTRO, and I've played games like Maplestory and FLYFF. Big difference in the level of grind. If you compare LOTRO or WOW to GW2? BIG DIFFERENCE in AT LEAST the visibility of the grind. I'm completely aware that i'm killing x amount of centaurs or wargs, and sometimes i look at the bar sayin "come on come on". But its not a chore and sometimes i'll do a quest again before hiking off to find the next outpost, group of dynamic events, skill point, vista.... oh yea, i leveled up. cool.
Arenanet has made a big departure from what is around currently and were not even talkinng about the combat anymore, and honestly i'm pretty satisfied especially considering there's no monthly charge.
Originally posted by Leethe So have they taken the grind out of the picture? The answer is yes, and no. and... While Guild Wars 2 isn’t completely grind free, it’s the first MMO I’ve played that doesn’t force the player to go through painful and mind numbing tasks. Just be giving the player options, they achieved a lot. None of you actually read this bit at all, did you?
Well to me DEs and hearts are mind numbing tasks.
Grind is how you define it.
When there is a break in DE's and I don't feel like seeking out Hearts, I explore, gather, and craft - got 22-24 on a toon last night going from 48 Armorsmith to like 115 (inlcuding exploration XP, gathering XP, killing XP for mats/stuff in my way, crafting XP, and daily acheivement XP.)
So all the people saying that the hearts and DEs are mind numbing must think WoW and every mmorpg is terrible right? If you are grinding in crafting your doing it wrong, use the discovery method and it speeds things up. Basically what I'm saying is why the heck are any of you here if you are complaining about things that are in EVERY mmorpg?
I have never felt like the hearts are mind numbing why, because I actually enjoy playing the game. This game is one of the few mmorpgs that is fun at every level, you don't have to wait to start having fun. The combat is a lot more skillful and the combo system is a blast when you start using it properly. All the people rushing to level 80 should chill out and enjoy the freaking journey. This rush to level cap is what is going to make you think the game is a grind, because your so focused on your level that you can't enjoy ANYTHING your doing in the game.
Every mmo from theme park mmos, to sandbox mmos are going to have grindy aspects. But it is largley your perception as I haven't felt like I have been grinding at all I have just been enjoying the heck out of the combat and exploring new areas.
This game has largely gotten rid of the grind, I can get 4 levels in one sitting and I don't even realize it. So I greatly disagree with people who say this is a grind. You could say anything is a grind, really, mario is just running and jumping, shooters are just shooting people etc.
Point is basically I think that if your calling this game a grind your playing it wrong, your not enjoying the content you have and are just waiting for level 80. Just learn to enjoy every level and the grind will disappear. If you think hearts and DEs are mind numbing and grindy then stop playing mmos, as the hearts have had some of the most interesting "quests" I have played in an mmo. Doing math for the asura, making from potions, healing soldiers, sure they start overlapping but I have never done stuff like this in an MMO before, and each heart moves so fast I never feel like I'm spending hours at 1 heart, its more like 10 minutes.
i lvled a lvl 30 warrior only by gathering stuff and completing map 100% with out killing anything unless iam force to do it ,
you dont have to grind to level
but yes in the end u will grind ur gear in dungeon but that ur choice,
~The only opinion that matters is your own.Everything else is just advice,~
I am not sure why people try to differentiate one grind from another. The truth is, no matter what you do in a game, everything is a grind to some degree or another by the very nature of it. PVP is a grind for rank. PVE is grind for loot. Crafting is a grind for skill and product. Playing is a grind for recognition and fame. Everything in gaming is a repetitious act, and therefore a grind.
Sometimes I wonder why people harp on getting rid of the grind (intense repetitive whatever) in games. If you don't want to grind, stop gaming and enjoy life and the grind that comes with that.
Get rid of grind? Impossible.
During a normal lvling I don't feel grind at all. Everything gives me exp and whenever I am tired of 1 thing I can do another. There is grind for cosmetic items but that was expected. Afterll all those "hardcore" players needs to do something.
Besides that Diablo 3 is a proof that people love to grind. Blizzard wouldn't add those 100 levels in the recent patch if that wasn't tha case.
If for people GW2 is grindy then you have a very short memory. It's the least grindy game of the last decade.
Every MMO will have a grind otherwise you can't have a MMO. Just saying!
What matters is how much fun the game is or how boring the game is. This is why the dumb downed games of late have failed because they are just to boring to keep grinding. With the event in GW2 you can always switch up and do something epic and still keep grinding those skill points.
Originally posted by JeroKane Originally posted by Fadedbomb Sorry but the grind was NOT removed whatsoever in GuildWars 2, and is even the worst i've seen than some done previously. You see this pretty well with an alt trying to level it. Trying to go from 20 to 30 last night on my alt was like pulling teeth. I had already done all that content before on my main (I explored every low tier end area for each race), and it was a literal grind finding xp to level off. Hearts, Events (they aren't dynamic), Scripted Boss Fights, Scripted Champion Fights, Hidden # of bear-butts to obtain by a Progress Bar, Horribly grindy so far, but then again the game is so easy who cares right?
This! Sorry OP, but this game is as much grinding as any other MMO.
They just removed quests and replaced them with Events (aka Mythic's WAR public quest system, which Trion copied for their game RIFT as well).
In fact, this game feels more grindy than any other game, as all these events start becoming stale and repetitive after you've gone through a few zones.
I actually started missing some good old Storyline quests like in LOTRO and Everquest 2. :-(
GW2 only has a personal storyline quest series and that's it. :-/
You both have a very different play style it seems! I am level 71 and I didn't go to any other zones except the Norm areas! So when i'll "alt" , my journey will be new, almost everytime. I prefer hearts/de's over quests! Simple because I don't need to : click NPC , accept quest, go kill 10 centaurs , press M to see where you need to return , then walk to that NPC, quest complete, then ... what do you know? You accept other quest : Mr Tiny have a job for you, go to the blazing camp and talk to him. Press track to see where it is, then .. walk to him ignoring your "journery" to that NPC. You just want to go to him as fast as you can.
Now, if you say events/de's start becoming stale and repettitive, how would you call the quests ( ! ) in .. WoW for exemple? Hm? Yea, I though so!
"Scripted Boss Fights,
Scripted Champion Fights,"
I would like to point out, that people like Fadedbomb are kinda ... low in IQ and he is not alone! How in the hell do you want devs to create content? Of course EVERYTHING is scripted! Every game from this world is scripted and they will be scripted forever. And not only game related. Robots are scripted, wash machines are scripted, cars are scripted. ... you name it. Events are dynamic untill one point, and is YOUR fault if you repeate them more then .. twice let's say. I "manage" to meet players, who just stayed in this area, where 2 events were "spamed" every 5 or so minutes. And guess what? They said they are bored and want to be lvl 80 fast! HELLO? Move through the map or just go to other! Press M if you don't know, and they DO write level requirements for maps, and see the one close to your level and go there.
No my friends, YOU make the game a grind and ... bored! YOU are responsible for your play-style and the fun term.
Every game has grind, but what constitutes it being a grind is if it is boring or not. I never felt a "grind" in EQ or daoc, because I had fun leveling up in a group, knocking off a few levels, progressing my character. I didn't even think WoW was a grind first time through, then really started getting sick of quests. Questing is almost always a grind for me.
A game can be super grindy, but not feel like a grind at all if it is fun to do, or can be quick to progress, but feel like a massive grind. It is all perspective. The better the grind flows, the less it feels like a grind to a majority of players.
Currently I've been playing Dragon Quest VI on DS. The system has your characters level, but also have like 10 vocations, then secondary vocations after you do the first tier, added on to your normal leveling process. I've been fighting mobs over and over, apart from the story, raising my vocations and it is not a grind at all, because I am having a blast. I'm grinding levels, but it is not a "grind".
Originally posted by Vannor They havn't removed the grind at all. To get the most desired items in the game you have to XP grind (for 100 skill points for EACH item) and/or dungeon grind (50+ runs). They removed the need to grind to be competitive, they did not remove the grind. To get those desired items, the grind is worse than in most other MMOs. Level grind is gone.. but that's only because they throw experience at you every chance they get. <-- Which I prefer over the old ways. However, it's not because the tasks are more stimulating, you wouldn't keep toasting at tables, collecting the eggs or killing things once the hearts or DE is finished, it's just as boring as any other grind. Lack of linking quest based storylines make almost every heart and every event kinda mundane as well, purposeless. Now we are grinding with even less reasons to grind. I want the legendary and armor sets grind gone though, it's just too high.. it ruins the game for me and is the reason I'm not loggin in every day anymore.
grinding is not required for you to be viable in pve and pvp, therefore there is no grind. the grind for better looking gear is entirely optional. get your facts straight
Originally posted by FrodoFragins The 100% achievement bonues can make zones a grind. Skipping bugged quests or those you you hate means lost loot that may help you. Leveling alts is still very grindy, especially considering how many zones I ended up doing to reach the cap. I can't imagine exploring the world on more than one character.
Again, I don't know how you ended up going to "many zones" to reach the cap! I am level 71 and 33% map completion. So I think I will be having no more then 40% of the world map when I reach level 80! That still remains 60% for almost 2 alt chars to explore, which is .. oustanding really!
And 100% achievement bonuses does not make it a grind. Even more, it rewards you for exploring all the map ( which is what you should do ) . Grind is where you ... do the same things over and over again , where if you complete a map , you do different task since every map is unique.
you want a car?? you grind for it
you want a house?? even more grind
you want a castle?' guess more grind
when does people will learn to enjoy insted of pown