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[Column] Guild Wars 2: Getting Rid of the Grind

SBFordSBFord Associate Editor - News ManagerThe Land of AZPosts: 16,622MMORPG.COM Staff Uncommon

Players often complain about the grind in most MMOs today. It's not totally without reason either. Guild Wars 2 seemed to be ready to remove the grind. How has ArenaNet succeeded in this department? Read our latest Guild Wars 2 column to see what we think before adding your ideas in the comments.

I’m not the only player that hates, and fears, the grind. I’m also not the only player that has made my opinion vocal.  ArenaNet has heard the angry growls of the players, and tried to find a way to fix this issue in Guild Wars 2.  So have they taken the grind out of the picture?

The answer is yes, and no.  While playing since launch, I’ve taken a lot of notes about this subject, as it’s one of the major factors that can just drain the fun right out of a game.  It seems that ArenaNet has tackled the grind, taking steps to see what causes grinding, and taking actions to weaken its strong grasp on the leveling process.

Read more of David North's Guild Wars 2: Getting Rid of the Grind.

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You really do need a good reason to go around picking up explosives off the ground.

Associate Editor: MMORPG.com
Follow me on Twitter: @MMORPGMom

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Comments

  • VannorVannor YorkshirePosts: 2,970Member Uncommon

    They havn't removed the grind at all. To get the most desired items in the game you have to XP grind (for 100 skill points for EACH item) and/or dungeon grind (50+ runs). They removed the need to grind to be competitive, they did not remove the grind. To get those desired items, the grind is worse than in most other MMOs.

    Level grind is gone.. but that's only because they throw experience at you every chance they get. <-- Which I prefer over the old ways. However, it's not because the tasks are more stimulating, you wouldn't keep toasting at tables, collecting the eggs or killing things once the hearts or DE is finished, it's just as boring as any other grind. Lack of linking quest based storylines make almost every heart and every event kinda mundane as well, purposeless. Now we are grinding with even less reasons to grind.

    I want the legendary and armor sets grind gone though, it's just too high.. it ruins the game for me and is the reason I'm not loggin in every day anymore.

  • Zeus.CMZeus.CM ZagrebPosts: 1,788Member
    People think of hearts as normal grindy quests where you need to kill few centarus. In some way it is true but they forget that killing 10 centaurs is not the only way Arenanet offers to complete certain heart quest. Most of the time you are given a choice, 2-3 or even more different objectives that can be done within the same heart quest. Doing any of those will grant progression in that heart quest and you can complete it by, for instance, kill 3 centaurs, feeding 4 cows and reviving 2 villagers. You don't need to do just the killing. That's why grinding is set to minimum in quests such as this.
  • RocknissRockniss Youngstown, OHPosts: 1,034Member
    Actually no matter which way you slice it, the goal for me is to get to level cap and then play the game. I'm really only interested in wvw. Now to gain every advantage even with scaling, I need to be level capped. So right now yes I am grinding my way to 80 and it very much feels like a grind. That's not to say it is a grind for everyone, but for me it feels like a grind. The problem I'm running into right now as well is that even in wvw I feel like I'm grinding for exp to gain the next level. That might not be the most efficient way to level but that's really all I want to do. I don't want to collect pieces and parts, I don't want to water the corn and feed cows, I don't want to play chess, I want to kill stuff, so for me its a grind.
  • sleepr27sleepr27 LisbonPosts: 103Member
    Getting rid of the grind?! this game to me felt more grindy than WoW or SWTOR. And please don't come with your crap argument of "you have to play this game differently".
  • FadedbombFadedbomb Aiken, SCPosts: 2,081Member

    Sorry but the grind was NOT removed whatsoever in GuildWars 2, and is even the worst i've seen than some done previously. You see this pretty well with an alt trying to level it.

    Trying to go from 20 to 30 last night on my alt was like pulling teeth. I had already done all that content before on my main (I explored every low tier end area for each race), and it was a literal grind finding xp to level off.

     

    Hearts,

    Events (they aren't dynamic),

    Scripted Boss Fights,

    Scripted Champion Fights,

    Hidden # of bear-butts to obtain by a Progress Bar,

     

     

    Horribly grindy so far, but then again the game is so easy who cares right?

    The Theory of Conservative Conservation of Ignorant Stupidity:
    Having a different opinion must mean you're a troll.

  • LeetheLeethe Posts: 876Member Uncommon

    So have they taken the grind out of the picture?

    The answer is yes, and no.

    and...

     

    While Guild Wars 2 isn’t completely grind free, it’s the first MMO I’ve played that doesn’t force the player to go through painful and mind numbing tasks.  Just be giving the player options, they achieved a lot.

    None of you actually read this bit at all, did you?

    There is NO miracle patch.

    95% of what you see in beta won't change by launch.

    Hope is not a stategy.
    ______________________________
    "This kind of topic is like one of those little cartoon boxes held up by a stick on a string, with a piece of meat under it. In other words, bait."

  • VannorVannor YorkshirePosts: 2,970Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Leethe

    So have they taken the grind out of the picture?

    The answer is yes, and no.

    and...

     

    While Guild Wars 2 isn’t completely grind free, it’s the first MMO I’ve played that doesn’t force the player to go through painful and mind numbing tasks.  Just be giving the player options, they achieved a lot.

    None of you actually read this bit at all, did you?

    Yes, I did. I don't agree with it.

  • JeroKaneJeroKane OsloPosts: 5,353Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Fadedbomb

    Sorry but the grind was NOT removed whatsoever in GuildWars 2, and is even the worst i've seen than some done previously. You see this pretty well with an alt trying to level it.

    Trying to go from 20 to 30 last night on my alt was like pulling teeth. I had already done all that content before on my main (I explored every low tier end area for each race), and it was a literal grind finding xp to level off.

     

    Hearts,

    Events (they aren't dynamic),

    Scripted Boss Fights,

    Scripted Champion Fights,

    Hidden # of bear-butts to obtain by a Progress Bar,

     

     

    Horribly grindy so far, but then again the game is so easy who cares right?

    This! Sorry OP, but this game is as much grinding as any other MMO.

    They just removed quests and replaced them with Events (aka Mythic's WAR public quest system, which Trion copied for their game RIFT as well).

    In fact, this game feels more grindy than any other game, as all these events start becoming stale and repetitive after you've gone through a few zones.

    I actually started missing some good old Storyline quests like in LOTRO and Everquest 2. :-(

    GW2 only has a personal storyline quest series and that's it. :-/

  • IndromeIndrome NortheimPosts: 292Member

    The innovation from "single-objective tasks" to "multiple-objective tasks" (note: task as a synonym for quest) is simple yet effective and works well in GW2.

     

    And at the end of the day when I just feel like killing things I can still resort to filling the hearts by slaughtering 10 to 15 mobs... often 4 at a time without it getting dull.

     

    Giving choices to players is a dangerous but rewarding - when well done - feat for a developer. You may not love ANet for not completely doing away with what little leftover grind there is but I myself love them and this game for at least TRYING. (which is more than can be said of f.e. WoW:MoP or SWToR)

     

     

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  • mCalvertmCalvert Tallahassee, FLPosts: 1,283Member

    Theyve reduced the grind, but the havent removed it. Crafting is a huge grind, and youre still basically going from quest to quest to level up, though theres plenty of variety to level. To a point, you still have to repeat in order to level. COmbat is grindy as you still end up killing thousands upon thousands of mobs. And I havent yet gotten to the grind for certain gear, requiring tons of karma or gold or tokens.

    WvW is also a grind as you just move from castle to castle, and there isnt enough people allowed in to really develope a map wide strategy. Thats after the queue grind of waiting 3 hours to get in.

  • Zeus.CMZeus.CM ZagrebPosts: 1,788Member
    Got to level 80 in 150 hours, world completition is 50%. Hard to say I had to repeat something..
  • nhatnhat york, PAPosts: 114Member Uncommon

    Any game that you play for an extended amount of time going to have some type of grind. FPS you're going to be playing round after round of games playing the same 5 maps over and over again like in CoD.

    Sports games you're going to be playing the same game over and over again.

     

  • DoomgrinDoomgrin Colorado Springs, COPosts: 2Member

    Seems to me that most people that complain about grindy-ness are arguing to just give'em whatever they want....

    I want the super-exclusive legendaries... but don't want to work for them....

    I wanna be max level to WvW.... but I don't want to level....

    I played all the low-level content for every race.... then I was bored when I had to repeat on an alt

    I want to become a master at a craft... but I don't want to have to earned it

    I picked a high-pop server... but I do not want to qait in a queue to WvW

    You know what folks, I am exploring, working on zone completions, crafting to level equivalent gear, and enjoying the game.  Its a game, name a single game where you never repeat the same action!  I have fun because I go around the game looking at every nook and cranny.  When an event pops up or a POI is near-by, this game gives a great sense of "OOO shiny!"

  • Butch808Butch808 sheffieldPosts: 319Member Uncommon
    There is no grind, only your perception of it.
  • gravesworngravesworn charleston, WVPosts: 324Member
    How did it get rid of the grind? You still have to preform repetitive tasks to advance
  • VannorVannor YorkshirePosts: 2,970Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Doomgrin

    I want the super-exclusive legendaries... but don't want to work for them....

    There's working for them and then there's wasting most of your life on them. I'll grind for them, that's not a problem because I know that grind can't ever be removed from MMOs. But grinding like 100 hours or more for about one item is just unreasonable, it's not just unreasonable... it's madness. Anyone arguing otherwise really need to get over the false sense of achievement they get from MMOs because no matter how you look at it the reality is that you just wasted a hell of a lot of time.

  • MMOwandererMMOwanderer LisbonPosts: 415Member
    Originally posted by Butch808
    There is no grind, only your perception of it.

    This. What some can find grindy as hell, some may not. Many raid like crazy and "grind" the best gear until their eyes bleed, but, they may enjoy themselves so much that it doesn't feel like tha for them.

    From the BWE, GW2 didn't feel grindy at all to me. Most mmorpgs nowadays give you xp and money left an right, so big deal. I do hear that at 80 the "grind" becomes insane to pay for armor, repairs, waypoint costs, etc. Regardless of it beign optional or not, that's the kind of useless and pointless grinding i don't like.

  • RocknissRockniss Youngstown, OHPosts: 1,034Member
    I hate to come across as the just give me something free type, I'm just saying what I want and anything in the way of what I want and is something I need to do to get there is grinding to me. I just wanted to wvw, this is the one thing this game has over others. That is simply my opinion and my perception. Pretty simple the game is a grind to level cap so I can have the best stats in wvw. I can't help how I feel when I'm playing, and right now I've just begun to associate GW2 more and more with grinding.
  • ubermutubermut dallas, TXPosts: 188Member
    Originally posted by Rockniss
    I hate to come across as the just give me something free type, I'm just saying what I want and anything in the way of what I want and is something I need to do to get there is grinding to me. I just wanted to wvw, this is the one thing this game has over others. That is simply my opinion and my perception. Pretty simple the game is a grind to level cap so I can have the best stats in wvw. I can't help how I feel when I'm playing, and right now I've just begun to associate GW2 more and more with grinding.

    they level you to 80 instantly.  I'm 45 and kicking ass, I have a great group of friends that I roll with and buy siege weapons with.  ya you get an advantage being 80 but at least you get to still kick ass in WvW on the way there.  best of both worlds in my opinion.  I can enjoy WvW now and have something to work for slowly.  I don't feel like I'm grinding, I get about 1.5 levels every time I go into WvW.  It's better than waiting to get to max level to even experience it (alterac valley, etc)

    but that is just my opinion.

     
     
  • RocknissRockniss Youngstown, OHPosts: 1,034Member
    A true level 80 is doing more damage and can take more damage, that's what I want, that's why I'm grinding my way to 80.
  • DestaiDestai Detroit, MIPosts: 574Member

    I don't get it. I just don't get it. Why do players see everything as grind? Games take effort, and when you look at things as work, that effort can be seen as grind. However, a fundamental part of RPGs is the acquisition of experience, usually by completing tasks. To some extent, there will always be grind. I really suggest players that don't enjoy this play style to go elsewhere. I'm not trying to be snarky here, but it's annoying seeing people complain about grind because there are quests that require you kill X amount of whatever, etc. It's the nature of the game. You can't expect FPS games to not have shooting or player killing, so don't expect RPGs to not have leveling.

    Guild Wars 2 does have grind and things to work towards, I look at both as a positive thing. They've avoided making essentials unobtainable and lessened the grind for those things. However, they give you plenty of achievements behind the grind and make it worthwhile. As long as the grind doesn't become like LoTRO's virtue system, I'm fine with it.

  • KalestonKaleston TrinecPosts: 173Member

    It's weird to read these responses. I won't disagree that there is no grind in GW2, of course there is. But it doesn't feel like that to me. I got to level 80 and I actually don't remember how I got there... I just did bit of that and bit of other, pretty much what I felt I'm up to at the time (apart from brief copper ore grinding to push forward my crafting).

    Maybe one big difference, I don't actually count gathered exps or levels... I just do stuff I want at the moment and exps and levels somehow naturaly come themselves.

    Also why can't you go WvW and level up there? To me it sounds much funnier than grind those levels the way you don't like. So yeah full 80 does more damage... but you will get there eventually, even if it takes longer, who cares if it's fun time? For me I'd rather spend an hour of fun time, than 10 minutes of boring grind.

  • CaldrinCaldrin CwmbranPosts: 4,533Member Uncommon

    For me as the heart quests where so boring the game is even more of a grind than others.. i had fun for about day donig quests and then i realsied they where some of the most boring repetative quests i have come accross in an MMORPG..

    Sure you can do other things to lvl like WvWvW pvp err wait no i cant massive Qs.. oh wait i can craft.. err well when i was playing trading was broke quite a bit.. oh wait i can do the so called amazing dynamic events.. sure some are fun but others are just as boring as heart quests..

    I always say if you find a game a grind dont play.. and im sticknig by my words and not playing.. but i had to post to say NO gw2 has not got rid of the grind.. sure you can lvl in different ways but they are not the first to do this..

  • thekid1thekid1 GroningenPosts: 789Member

    Level 34 now. Just finished a level 25-35 area and compelted everything except the vistas. No crafting, no personal story, no pvp. And no grind at all. Well, killing the same creatures over and over get's a bit boring but that's it. I also like how I have to do only one level appropriate area without pvp, crafting and personal story so I can save the others for alts.

     

  • thekid1thekid1 GroningenPosts: 789Member

    I see no grind. Most of the hearts I get by accident, there are more ways to get them then is listed in the explanation text.

    The only thing which feels a bit grindy is having to kill NPC's over and over because they spawn really quick. and killing them takes a pretty long time to die. Especially when you are exploring an area, trying to jump on places, looking for hidden caves, etc. it can be a bit "grindy" having to kill yet another Spider 10 seconds after you killed his friend.

     

    But that's it.

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