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Lead designer gone

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Comments

  • VirusDancerVirusDancer Brandon, FLPosts: 3,649Member

    Another issue to consider when discussing the potential to add features is the cost involved in that - given the layoffs, they do not come off as having the funds/resources to add things in that sense.  They would need an infusion of cash to do so...

    This isn't 2001.... it's rought out there.

    I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?

    Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%

  • VirusDancerVirusDancer Brandon, FLPosts: 3,649Member
    Originally posted by kevjards
    Originally posted by VirusDancer
    It's a quirky juggling act, because certain things they add to bring in other gamers could alienate current gamers...so do they risk losing their core while trying to attract others?  Then again, that's kind of where MMOs have been doing that dance for the past 7+ years.

    well the solution to that is bring in servers especially for f2p..that way the main paying community dont feel alienated.

    What I was talking about was not about F2P in the least.  If they were to make the game "easier" to attract more players, that would alienate players that looked forward to TSW and enjoy it for what it offers.  It was more along those lines.

    In creating F2P servers, though, I'm not sure how you could say that paying customers would not feel alienated in some sense.  That opens the Pandora's Box of just what they have or are continuing to pay for in comparison to the F2P players.

    At which point you likely turn it into a Freemium mess...

    edit: pesky typo

    I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?

    Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%

  • 7star7star SeoulPosts: 405Member
    Originally posted by Piiritus   Why not a stock market of some kind? 

    This is actually an intriguing idea! It could open up a lot of interesting avenues, as well. Manipulating markets fits right into the Secret World.

  • JeroKaneJeroKane OsloPosts: 5,353Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by tank017
    Originally posted by Nitth

     


    Originally posted by tank017
    now that the game is complete for the most part,his services are probably no longer needed.

     

     

    that said,that doesnt mean the game isnt hurting.They really need to make it F2P.A lot of people are no longer willing to pay a monthly fee.


     

    How is the game going f2p going to help revenue and fun factor?

    if anything it'll get more people in the door.

    If it means spicing up the online store,then im sure they'd oblige.F2P,B2P or whatever.. its most likely inevitable..

    I am getting so sick and tired of the F2P crowd trying to push F2P in every single game out there! /facepalm

    F2P doesn't help anything! It only brings the "wrong" kind of people into the game!

    On top of that! It will seriously hurt the fun factor of the game, as they have to make money somehow, so it means either locking out content, making content harder and force you to buy potions, etc.

    For free the sun rises up in the east each morning! /shrug

    There are trials for people to try out the game for free! They also added a 1200 bonus points for the store if you complete 30 missions within those 3 days to spend in the ingame store.

    The game is fine and I still see enough people around me having a good time every night I log into the game.

    Last night it took me about 5 minutes to get a full group together for Polaris (Kingsmouth dungeon)!

    If everyone is leaving in droves.... I wouldn't have been able to get groups together so fast anymore, like in so many other MMO's (SW:TOR looking at you as example).

    They screwed up with marketing! That's it! It's that simple. They thought the whole viral marketing campain would do the trick and get them a million boxes sold, without spending too much on real advertisment.

    They were wrong.

    Also releasing the game right in the summer holidays, when everyone goes on holiday, wasn't the smartest move either.

    And then ArenaNet and Blizzard announcing release dates of their game / expansion couldn't make things worse for them.

     

    So many cheapskates out there think F2P is the almighty holy grail!

    Well.... look what it did to City of Heroes?  Or Aion for that matter!  Trust me... Aion is next in line to get axed, as hardly anyone is spending money in that game either!

  • VirusDancerVirusDancer Brandon, FLPosts: 3,649Member
    Originally posted by 7star
    Originally posted by Piiritus   Why not a stock market of some kind? 

    This is actually an intriguing idea! It could open up a lot of interesting avenues, as well. Manipulating markets fits right into the Secret World.

    And it's one of those suggestions unlikely to alienate folks.  :)

    I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?

    Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%

  • GdemamiGdemami Beau VallonPosts: 7,860Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by Nitth

    So if you cant get someone to pay a sub, how are you going to get them to by from a store?


    If they are not willing to pay for sub, they might be willing to pay for something else.

    That I think you would agree is not unreasonable way of thinking.


    F2P offers more options for pricing of your product. You can include subscription in form of Premium service, you can charge for various virtual goods, services and content.


    You, as a customer have more choices and likely buy something.

  • JeroKaneJeroKane OsloPosts: 5,353Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Gdemami

     


    Originally posted by Nitth

    So if you cant get someone to pay a sub, how are you going to get them to by from a store?


     

    If they are not willing to pay sub, they might be willing to pay for something else.

    That I think you would agree is not unreasonable way of thinking.

    If people are not willing to pay for a sub, they won't spend a dime in the store either.

    History has shown that F2P games are always way more expensive to play that subbased games.

    In a P2P game I pay a monthly sub and I know what I am getting. In a F2P game I don't!

    DDO is the only MMO to date that was succesful in it's Freemium conversion. Because Turbine did it right with that one.

    LOTRO not so... only in the first year and now they are desperate and trying to squeeze out as much as possible from the remaining players with ridiculously priced expansions. One of the most expensive of any MMO to date.

    City of Heroes fell flat on it's face with their F2P conversion and is closing down. Aion will be next in line. At least here in the west.

    Funcom would have sold a hell lot more boxes, if they waited until GW2 and MoP was announced and released and then release TSW in october/november instead and have a "real" marketing campain like they had with AoC.

     

  • NikkitaNikkita ParisPosts: 790Member
    Originally posted by tank017

    now that the game is complete for the most part,his services are probably no longer needed.

     

    that said,that doesnt mean the game isnt hurting.They really need to make it F2P.A lot of people are no longer willing to pay a monthly fee.

    I don't get this mentality. If people don't like a game and are not willing to pay for it, what difference does it make if game goes F2P? they will suddenly start liking it? you know how cheap this sounds?

    image


    Bite Me

  • Johnie-MarzJohnie-Marz La Puente, CAPosts: 865Member
    Originally posted by Nitth

     


    Originally posted by tank017

    Originally posted by Nitth  

    Originally posted by tank017 now that the game is complete for the most part,his services are probably no longer needed.     that said,that doesnt mean the game isnt hurting.They really need to make it F2P.A lot of people are no longer willing to pay a monthly fee.
      How is the game going f2p going to help revenue and fun factor?
    if anything it'll get more people in the door.

     

    If it means spicing up the online store,then im sure they'd oblige.F2P,B2P or whatever.. its most likely inevitable..


     

    So if you cant get someone to pay a sub, how are you going to get them to by from a store?

    Where have you been the last couple years?

    I Hope the Secret world doesn't go free to play, however, free to play games make more money because they're a scam, they nickel and dime the player into paying for everything. It is the wave of the future unfortunately.

  • ZikariZikari SingaporePosts: 78Member
    This news is the first one that is making me believe the game is going down. Ragnar was quoting they are staying true to their vision while going forward in the State of The Game Issue, then the Lead Designer leaves. Not good, I think the game won't be able to get back up or at least future content will be suffering by this. (For the record, I love it and am Lifetimer)
  • VirusDancerVirusDancer Brandon, FLPosts: 3,649Member
    Originally posted by JeroKane
    Funcom would have sold a hell lot more boxes, if they waited until GW2 and MoP was announced and released and then release TSW in october/november instead and have a "real" marketing campain like they had with AoC.

    If for nothing else, if they had a later release date - then some of the upgrade costs folks would have faced would have been passed off on other games.

    With the changes made during the beta, the gf and I went from being just at/below min spec for the game and being fine playing to looking at needing to build two new rigs... and yeah, with all the other games out there that ran great - it did not happen.

    I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?

    Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%

  • TrunksZTrunksZ PanamaPosts: 263Member

    Well if the lead designer left, it could be good, it give the chance to the new lead designer to step up and keep the game alive and who knows even improve it, of course it could also totally destroy the game, he will have to roll the dice and wait for the outcome, because if I was a game developer I wouldn't know what the MMO community really wants, this is pretty much the most demanding community in video games.

    Also...

    I beta tested this game and I can say that if this game was B2P with a cash shop I would've bought it and I probably would have spend way more than if I've paid a subscription fee, the reason I don't like subscription fees is because of two reasons, first, I don't see any physical reward from doing so, I know we are basically paying monthly fee for server maintenance and stuff, but I don't really see it as a reward from my 15$, even tho it kinda is. Second I really love to have the option to pay or not to, I even reward companies from doing so, I just threw 30$ in GW2 I have the gems in there waiting to be spend, I've spent about 150$ in APB: Reloaded another 300$ in LoL and every single person I know from LoL have bought at least 1 skin, I am what you call an impulsive buyer (Only in video games, because I still wear the same pair of jeans I had from 2 years ago xD) and as long as I can afford it I will keep doing it and I know people that have spend so much more than me, anyway I just thought I would leave MY opninion about it.

  • fallenlordsfallenlords NottinghamPosts: 680Member
    Lead designer going would be a hell of hit to any project, regardless of what stage the project is at overall. You now have to question whether they are in a proper position to support TSW never mind continue development.

     

    Found it interesting to see he said on the job cuts 50% was a Funcom percentage and that an that the Oslo office got hit much much harder.   That goes to show, what Funcom is telling it's customer/press is nothing near the reality of what is actually happening behind the scenes.
  • thexratedthexrated OuluPosts: 1,368Member Common
    Originally posted by FrodoFragins
    If you design a game and it bombs, that's kind of the proper response.

    It is a horrible response that does promote very healthy working or business environment. Failures are a part of every business and the proper way to handle them is not firing people who made the decisions, but learning from mistakes.

    "The person who experiences greatness must have a feeling for the myth he is in."

  • VirusDancerVirusDancer Brandon, FLPosts: 3,649Member
    Originally posted by TrunksZ

    Also...

    I beta tested this game and I can say that if this game was B2P with a cash shop I would've bought it and I probably would have spend way more than if I've paid a subscription fee, the reason I don't like subscription fees is because of two reasons, first, I don't see any physical reward from doing so, I know we are basically paying monthly fee for server maintenance and stuff, but I don't really see it as a reward from my 15$, even tho it kinda is. Second I really love to have the option to pay or not to, I even reward companies from doing so, I just threw 30$ in GW2 I have the gems in there waiting to be spend, I've spent about 150$ in APB: Reloaded another 300$ in LoL and every single person I know from LoL have bought at least 1 skin, I am what you call an impulsive buyer (Only in video games, because I still wear the same pair of jeans I had from 2 years ago xD) and as long as I can afford it I will keep doing it and I know people that have spend so much more than me, anyway I just thought I would leave MY opninion about it.

    Is it a simple case that the $15 a month does not buy you an advantage - while other purchases do?

    That can either be taken bluntly (cause for some folks it is just that) or it could be taken in lines with the discussions folks have had regarding time vs. money.  With the former, well - some folks just like to buy advantages.  With the latter, well - that's about the folk paying $15 a month that can only play a couple of hours vs the guy that plays the game like a job for that $15.  The guy that can only play a little does not stand a chance of keeping up with the other guy - if that guy feels the need to keep up.  In many F2P games, that time issue can be overcome by throwing money at the game.  It presents an equalizer of sorts.

    It's generally about who has the advantage - because either side would be lying if they were to say it did not exist.  Folks either have time or they have money (yes, some folks have both).

    I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?

    Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%

  • JeroKaneJeroKane OsloPosts: 5,353Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Zikari
    This news is the first one that is making me believe the game is going down. Ragnar was quoting they are staying true to their vision while going forward in the State of The Game Issue, then the Lead Designer leaves. Not good, I think the game won't be able to get back up or at least future content will be suffering by this. (For the record, I love it and am Lifetimer)

    The Secret World is Ragnar's creation. It's his baby and he's been working on it since way before development of AoC even started.

    The Secret World is basically the continuation of his Longest Journey / Dreamfall games.

    So while it sucks the Lead dev is gone (as he is responsible for the technical design of the game systems). He was still only materializing Ragnar's vision.

    So as long as Ragnar stays on the helm, it's no problem to have a new lead dev step in and continue working on Ragnar's vision / roadmap.

     

    Now... if Ragnar would leave the team.... yeah... then I would start getting worried too.

  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    Isn't ragnar tornquist the lead designer, with Martin brusgard and Joel bylos as the next level of management.

    Anyway, this looks bad for the game. No chance of pvp getting fixed for instance, as Martin seemed to be the only one to get pvp. I expect tsw to do an Aoc and mutate into a YABRG*


    * yet another bloody raiding game.
  • VirusDancerVirusDancer Brandon, FLPosts: 3,649Member
    Something to keep in mind while discussing Martin leaving is that he did not choose to leave.  He was part of the Oslo layoffs.

    I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?

    Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%

  • KhinRuniteKhinRunite ManilaPosts: 879Member
    Originally posted by JeroKane
    Originally posted by Gdemami

     


    Originally posted by Nitth

    So if you cant get someone to pay a sub, how are you going to get them to by from a store?


     

    If they are not willing to pay sub, they might be willing to pay for something else.

    That I think you would agree is not unreasonable way of thinking.

    If people are not willing to pay for a sub, they won't spend a dime in the store either.

    History has shown that F2P games are always way more expensive to play that subbased games.

    In a P2P game I pay a monthly sub and I know what I am getting. In a F2P game I don't!

    Not everyone realize this "truth" to F2P games. Even if some realize this already, they're banking on the possibility that they won't be spending as much as subscribing monthly. Bottom line is the price barrier to entry is gone for F2P games. There's a possibility that you spend more, but it's up to you if you want to.

    I for one plan to try SWTOR out when it goes F2P. I don't know yet if I will like it enough to buy stuff from their store, but I will play. It simply opens up that possibility.

    I also played Champions when it went F2P. I bought a costume pack.

    EDIT: I'm not saying TSW should go F2P. Personally if it went F2P I still wouldn't play it untill they changed the animations.

  • DakeruDakeru Posts: 1,640Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by JeroKane

    If people are not willing to pay for a sub, they won't spend a dime in the store either.

     

    This is such nonsense. I spent about 50€ on AoC because I bought packs to unlock dungeons and classes.

    I never got beyond level 44 but I don't regret buying because I know, should I go back all the things I bought will still be there. I would have never bought anything or even tried the game if AoC had sticked to the subscription model.

     

    Now tell me that the 100k subscribers of TSW are the majority and the millions of people like me, jumping from game to game, buying stuff from the cash shop, are the minority.

    I have an entitlement delusion - because I have this strange idea that my 50$ should have the same value as anyone else's 50$
    "Your account is not entitled to the same value as a new account. Just saying you are entitled to the same as someone else because you said so is exactly what expresses your entitlement issues."

  • VirusDancerVirusDancer Brandon, FLPosts: 3,649Member
    Originally posted by Dakeru
    Originally posted by JeroKane

    If people are not willing to pay for a sub, they won't spend a dime in the store either.

     

    This is such nonsense. I spent about 50€ on AoC because I bought packs to unlock dungeons and classes.

    I never got beyond level 44 but I don't regret buying because I know, should I go back all the things I bought will still be there. I would have never bought anything or even tried the game if AoC had sticked to the subscription model.

     

    Now tell me that that 100k subscribers of TSW are the majority and the millions of people like me, jumping from game to game, buying stuff from the cash shop, are the minority.

    You're one person.  Not sure why you're speaking for millions.

    Wouldn't it be better to see if you can't find the actual numbers from a given company about how many of their players spend more than $15 a month in the various RMT shops...and then if those folks are actually in the majority - bring that up.

    Othewise, even though what JeroKane said - while it might be an overgeneralization - would still apply to the majority.

    I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?

    Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%

  • DakeruDakeru Posts: 1,640Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by VirusDancer
    Originally posted by Dakeru
    Originally posted by JeroKane

    If people are not willing to pay for a sub, they won't spend a dime in the store either.

     

    This is such nonsense. I spent about 50€ on AoC because I bought packs to unlock dungeons and classes.

    I never got beyond level 44 but I don't regret buying because I know, should I go back all the things I bought will still be there. I would have never bought anything or even tried the game if AoC had sticked to the subscription model.

     

    Now tell me that that 100k subscribers of TSW are the majority and the millions of people like me, jumping from game to game, buying stuff from the cash shop, are the minority.

    You're one person.  Not sure why you're speaking for millions.

    Wouldn't it be better to see if you can't find the actual numbers from a given company about how many of their players spend more than $15 a month in the various RMT shops...and then if those folks are actually in the majority - bring that up.

    Othewise, even though what JeroKane said - while it might be an overgeneralization - would still apply to the majority.

    Cause TSW has 100k subscribers - so where is the rest?

    Are you really saying TSW is earning Funcom a larger revenue than AoC?

    I have an entitlement delusion - because I have this strange idea that my 50$ should have the same value as anyone else's 50$
    "Your account is not entitled to the same value as a new account. Just saying you are entitled to the same as someone else because you said so is exactly what expresses your entitlement issues."

  • VirusDancerVirusDancer Brandon, FLPosts: 3,649Member
    Originally posted by Dakeru
    Originally posted by VirusDancer
    Originally posted by Dakeru
    Originally posted by JeroKane

    If people are not willing to pay for a sub, they won't spend a dime in the store either.

     

    This is such nonsense. I spent about 50€ on AoC because I bought packs to unlock dungeons and classes.

    I never got beyond level 44 but I don't regret buying because I know, should I go back all the things I bought will still be there. I would have never bought anything or even tried the game if AoC had sticked to the subscription model.

     

    Now tell me that that 100k subscribers of TSW are the majority and the millions of people like me, jumping from game to game, buying stuff from the cash shop, are the minority.

    You're one person.  Not sure why you're speaking for millions.

    Wouldn't it be better to see if you can't find the actual numbers from a given company about how many of their players spend more than $15 a month in the various RMT shops...and then if those folks are actually in the majority - bring that up.

    Othewise, even though what JeroKane said - while it might be an overgeneralization - would still apply to the majority.

    Cause TSW has 100k subscribers - so where is the rest?

    Are you really saying TSW is earning Funcom a larger revenue than AoC?

    Why would I really be saying that - when I did not say that at all?

    You spoke for millions of people.  You're not millions of people.  You're you.  Just you.  You can't speak for millions of people.  Perhaps you've gotten feedback from some friends - so yeah, you can pass along what they've said and done.  That's not going to be millions of people.  You can't speak for millions of people.

    That's something I really said.  It's up there - you even quoted it.

    So rather than suggesting that people spending money in the cash shops are in the majority, would it not be best to get the numbers from the company on how many folks playing the game are spending money in the cash shop?  What JeroKane said was not about how much is being spent in the cash shop, but rather it was about the number of players spending money in the cash shop.

    Say you have three players.  One of the could spend $50+ a month in the cash shop, and the company would generate more revenue than if they had three subs...but that's only 1 out of 3 players.  That's a minority.  Of course, this is just a random example.  I still say it would be best to get the actual numbers from the company on what percentage of players spend money (more than $15, given sub cost) in the cash shop each month.

    If the percentage is larger for those that do than those that do not...tada, you've got a majority.  Otherwise, you do not.

    Without something like that, you can't say that millions of players are spending money in the cash shops.  It's just a made up number.  Pointless.

    That's something I really said.  It's up there - you even quoted it.

    My talking about TSW vs. AoC revenue?  Um... something else you made up?

    edit: I'm being plagued by typo demons...arrrrgh!

    I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?

    Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%

  • DakeruDakeru Posts: 1,640Member Uncommon

    Withought quoting all that again. You even just pinpointed why f2p is a better model for revenue than subscriptions.

    You have a very large potential number of players and a few of them will spend enough money worth several subscriptions.

    The point here is that people will not just shy away because they don't want to pay a monthly fee for a game they might not even like.

    So f2p leads to more players ingame which leads to more players buying stuff because the servers won't appear as empty.

     

    And yes I do speak for millions because I don't want to pay a monthly fee and then worry that I might be too busy with work and Uni to even make any use of my money. 

    Now tell me that this simple logic is hard to grasp.

     

    Funcom had already adapted to the modern market with AoC. Why they tried subscriptions again on TSW just to lose 80% share value and to fire half of their staff is beyond me.

    I have an entitlement delusion - because I have this strange idea that my 50$ should have the same value as anyone else's 50$
    "Your account is not entitled to the same value as a new account. Just saying you are entitled to the same as someone else because you said so is exactly what expresses your entitlement issues."

  • ArakaziArakazi OxfordPosts: 889Member
    Originally posted by Dakeru
    Originally posted by JeroKane

    If people are not willing to pay for a sub, they won't spend a dime in the store either.

     

    This is such nonsense. I spent about 50€ on AoC because I bought packs to unlock dungeons and classes.

    I never got beyond level 44 but I don't regret buying because I know, should I go back all the things I bought will still be there. I would have never bought anything or even tried the game if AoC had sticked to the subscription model.

     

    Now tell me that the 100k subscribers of TSW are the majority and the millions of people like me, jumping from game to game, buying stuff from the cash shop, are the minority.

    Someone posted an interesting buch of statistics from a ftp game on how many people actually went to the store and spent cash on DLC. I can't remember the exact stats but the vast majority of players didn't spend much time on the game, left and never came back online again after under 6 hours of playing. A smaller percentage played regularly but never spent money, while a larger % spent some money, around $5. but the top 10% of players, mostly hardcore PvP spent on average $50 a month with the top 1% spending something around $300. The only stat that really shocked me was the last one.

    To be honest, I tend to stay away from ftp games, I just don't like the idea of exclusive items apearing into a virtual world because you pay real money for them. A game loses it's integrity in my eyes when things like that happen. I don't mind so much vanity items or character transfers name change etc. But doubt XP, higher loot drops, defence and attack buffs or special weapons just cross that line for me.

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