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LFD becoming a standard feature?

2

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  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by Oracle_Fefe

     

    There are better ways to implement the feature that can work for both sides, however.

     

    Infact, before LFG feature was in WoW (Or some time after it) There was a LFRaid feature that only involved posting that you wanted to create a Raid or join one. It wasn't used because it was so unnoticeable by the mass crowd. If such a feature was better implemented and shown much more then it would have made forming a PuG much simpler.

     

    As for travelling to the place, I really enjoyed that for those impatient ones, a Warlock could create a "dark door" with I believe five other people in order to teleport players to them. It requires some to travel but not all if they are busy.

    The current implementation is much better than the OLD one. In the old one, there is no matching. It is just a bulletin board, and players still have to work at it (by browsing, by selecting whom to talk to).

    The new system solves this by doing the matching and teleport automatically. Sure Locks can do it, but a) you may not get a lock in the group, and b) you have to travel to him/her.

    Walking to dungeon is clearly not a popular activity. Personally, i think they should ask you to walk once to unlock the dungeon (so you see the scenary, and they did that in the beginning of CATA), and then instant teleport after the first time.

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by Johnie-Marz

    The Looking for Dungeon feature, soved a big problem and then created a new one.

    I played WoW for years and there were certain dungeons that I had never done. After the Dungeon Finder came out, I now hit every dungeon on my way up.

    But you are playing with people on a different realm. People used to get reputations. If they were a ninja or a troll people wouldn't group with them after a while.

    But when you are playing in a random dungeon finder group; you can be as big a troll as you want because you will never see those people again. You don't have to worry about your reputation on a specific realm.

     

    So it is both good, because you see more content. And bad, it almost encourages antisocial behavior because there are no reprocussions.

    Ninjaing is not a new problem. And it is fixed in the new LFR. The system roll your own loot (like D3) and it is no longer possible to ninja. That is a good fix. Plus, it goes both ways. You can ninja too.

    Troll, or incompetent player is even easier to fix. Just hit the quit button. And you can always add someone you like to your friend list since that is cross realm now. In fact, it is BETTER than before because you are no longer restricted to play with people on your server.

  • KaosProphetKaosProphet Edmonton, ABPosts: 379Member
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by KaosProphet

    But you don't mind spending 20 minutes in the dungeon grinding out swarms who's only point is to be a mini-hurdle before the boss encounter.

    And that's fine, I guess.  Personally, I don't see the difference.  To me, the trip to the dungeon is as much a part of the adventure as whatever crap lies inside between the entrance and the 'real fight' at the end.  

    How do you know that?

    Extrapolation from others making claims to those you make.  They don't like walking, or any of the organic means of forming groups, but they do like the 'progressive raid' that has other time-sinks to artificially extend the content.

    But perhaps this is the one area in which you differ from them.  

    I enjoy fun combat, so it depends on if fighting trash is fun. In D3, fighting trash (or normal mob) is VERY fun. Furious, large groups, all sort of abilties .. so i don't mind. In WOW, not so much.

    In fact, one of my fav dungeon is WOW is tier 9 raid dungeon with NO trash fight. And Blizz has substantially toned down trash leading up to bosses.

    Lastly, of course there *is* a difference. Walking is different than fighting, don't you think?

    If we're talking pointless fights, then I don't think it is that different.  Either is just a means of stretching out the content, so it's not just speed-ran in 5 minutes before queuing up again.  

    Even if it is not a "real" fight, it is 100x more enjoyable than walking.

    I'm guessing you're not much of a sight-seer in real life either.

  • NildenNilden null, NBPosts: 1,284Member Uncommon

    Oh give it a rest. Sure spamming chat that your lfg is old hat but pressing a button to join a queue, teleport to the dungeon and faceroll it while no one in the group says a single word and you never see them again is just as useless. Hell they might as well just pop in a group of AI bots, it's not like you could tell the difference.

    There is a middle ground between chat spamming and throw away groups.

    Gonna have to go with something like City of Heroes on this, custom channels for grouping, self flagging for the type of group you wanted to join, personal notes, it was polite to ask people if they wanted to join and promoted socialization. Plus they had 8 person groups with sidekicking and mentoring so you could play with friends of any level.

    How to post links.

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  • MothanosMothanos ArnhemPosts: 1,860Member Uncommon

    LFD did alot of harm in mmo's, WoW made it cross realm, and the ninja's dint even had to shame for stealing the loot, as you would never see that person again.

    I hated it, maybe if it was server only i would have liked it more, but man it instandly destroyed any server community and gave ninja's / griefers free cards to do it in any group....

    Hope GW2 will not be infested with that crap.

  • VirgoThreeVirgoThree Tarzana, CAPosts: 1,220Member
    Originally posted by Goatgod76
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by maji

    I agree with Oracle. While the tool is convenient, it also has many many drawbacks. First, it another step towards killing immersion. In one game, you meet with people in a town, and then venture out towards a dungeon. You walk through farmland, through thick forest. Some hermit might run along, tell you to not go any further, and run off. But you walk on. And there, hidden, you find a cave  through which you fight your way into the mountain depths past piles of bones and skeletons towards your goal.

    In another game, you click a button, and "poof" are suddenly not on a quest to kill some lizards in a desert, but find yourself in some dungeon cave. Where it is? Why? Who the other people are? Who cares. It makes no sense. It kills the idea of having a world you are a part of. It cuts the coherent game into many tiny mini games.  It also kills communication. There is no need to talk to people anymore. Where in the past, you were chatting with people as you were on your way towards the dungeon, and noticed them to be nice, and maybe invite them to your guild, or join theirs, or form one together, that's all irrelevant today.

    If I want some quick team action with some people I don't care about and without any story or setting or whatever, then I play a FPS.

    Many value convenience of a fast, combat-centric adventure over being in a world. Being in a world is not that great anyway. I am in the real world and it is a drag to have to drive to work, have to drive to the grocery store. If there is a magic wand to teleport me there, i would jump at it.

    I certainly do not want to walk 20 min before i can start my dungeon adventure, and certainly do NOT want to wait 20 min doing NOTHING for some other players to walk to the dungeon. Chatting for 20 min is poor substitution for gameplay. I am glad i do not have to suffer from force chat today.

    So yeah, the game is becoming many mini-games (co-op dungeons, arena pvp, LFR raids ...) so what?

     

    Dude please. Stop trying to play  MMORPG's and go to console gaming, were it seems you'd be more at home.

     

    Again, they are (were) seperate genre's for a reason because one was meant for instant gratification (Console gaming incase you are unsure), and the other wasn't...ffs.

    Wow I hate these kind of arguments, generally from PC Gaming Elitists. I'm mostly a PC gamer with about 85 percent of my gaming on PC, and the rest on Console. Console does not freaken mean instant gratification for pete's sake. Play something like Dragon's Dogma, Demon/Dark Souls, any plethora of JRPG, or hell even Red Dead Redemption (I remember a lot of travel in that game). 

    The reverse is true as well, where I have many PC games that cater to both instant gratification mentality and long term progresion mentality. 

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Anyways to the topic of the OP, I wouldn't mind seeing LFD in more games. It does tend to destroy communities but I'm pretty much long past that now. Also when people say WoW was not the first to have it, I'm not sure those people understand what LFD is versus LFG tools.

    LFD queues you to a dungeon of your choice, and automatically fills the group (tank/dps/healer) from multiple servers and teleports the entire group to the dungeon no matter where you are. The cross server component, one click auto queue, and instant teleport to dungeon are the primary components that set it apart from other LFG tools. I think you also recieve a bonus reward for completing it with the random pug.

  • waynejr2waynejr2 West Toluca Lake, CAPosts: 4,474Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Karteli
    Originally posted by nariusseldon

    WOW pioneer it. Now many games have it ....

    It looks like TSW will have it too.

    http://www.thesecretworld.com/news/group_finder_comes_with_digging_deeper

    Now i am more interested to give TSW a try .. may be after it turns F2P.

     

    Blizzard doesn't really pioneer anything, they rip ideas from other games and integrat into their own.  They didn't invent LFD, they didn't invent achievements (Warhammer Online) .. they didn't invent AOE looting, now with MoP.  If you played other games you will see this.

     

    Now Blizzard invents dynamic events in MoP .. Mmm Hmmmm.

     

    Blizzard only exist because people won't change from WoW to another game, either by time invested or by their mental capacity to restrict change.  But WoW gets older and older every minute, and Blizzard isn't upgrading the core infrastructure to keep this game afloat.  WoW has fallen into the dead sea, where some people will still cling to it, but it no longer influences market shifts.  I mean after SWTOR I doubt there will be another WoW clone since SWTOR failed so hard on an already failing game (WoW).

    Achievements were in City of Heroes before WAR.  City also had LFG.

  • FrodoFraginsFrodoFragins Manchester, NHPosts: 2,926Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by William12
    It should of been in every game at release after wow showed it works.  Games like rift, swtor have lost customers because it was not in the game fast enough.

    Exactly.  I would have stayed with SWTOR longer if they had this much needed feature.  The excuse that WOW didn't have it at launch is BS.  It's expected these days.

  • gravesworngravesworn charleston, WVPosts: 324Member
    I hate the mechanizm lol. I loved talking to people. Grouping up and making through to dungeons. The journey to moton core on raid nights was tough as shit. Or grouping up and running to shadowfang keep from southshore. Good times. Now its teleport here teleport there.
  • GinazGinaz Calgary, ABPosts: 1,731Member Uncommon
    Lets hope so because standing around for 2 hours looking for a group isn't fun.  In that time, in WoW at least, I could have already run 3 or 4 dungeons which, again, is much more fun than sitting with my thumb up my ass for 2 hours.

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  • ghostfaeriesghostfaeries the Land of OooPosts: 86Member
    Originally posted by Oracle_Fefe

    The LFG feature is what killed my pleasure to be honest. It is why I havent played certain MMOs, why Ive stopped playing warcraft among other reasons..

     

    There is so much potential that can be put into simply getting to a dungeon that is completely shrugged off with an easy alternative. It promotes rushing the same dungeon to repeat it again at times, as if people wouldn't care about anything but the loot, xp, or "armor currency".

    I always preferred traveling to dungeons, especially when the zone itself contains pockets of PvP activity. I recall one of my favorite moments pre-WotLK was me and three other people (last didnt arrive yet) ended up meeting a 5 man horde party lookin ready to go in the dungeon too. We spotted each other and had a fun brawl that, even though ended with us losing they bowed and went bye.

    lol i'm guessing you weren't on a pvp server, where at low level i recall getting ganked by level 70s trying to get to my dungeon and camped over and over. it got old and made me not want to do dungeons. the LFG feature was an amazing addition to the game. if tsw brings in this feature and becomes free to play, i will definitely give it a try.

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by KaosProphet

    I enjoy fun combat, so it depends on if fighting trash is fun. In D3, fighting trash (or normal mob) is VERY fun. Furious, large groups, all sort of abilties .. so i don't mind. In WOW, not so much.

    In fact, one of my fav dungeon is WOW is tier 9 raid dungeon with NO trash fight. And Blizz has substantially toned down trash leading up to bosses.

    Lastly, of course there *is* a difference. Walking is different than fighting, don't you think?

    If we're talking pointless fights, then I don't think it is that different.  Either is just a means of stretching out the content, so it's not just speed-ran in 5 minutes before queuing up again.  

    Fights are never pointless. The point, of course, is that you defeat something. I don't know how you can confuse between walking, and fighting mobs. The purpose is not at issue here. The point is that the activity is different. It is MUCH more active to fight ... than just walk. Now there are hard fights, and there are easy fights. Some of the trash fight is actually quite involved, and while not as challenging as boss fight, also cannot be won by just standing there.

    I am, of couse, against winning fights by doing nothing.

    Even if it is not a "real" fight, it is 100x more enjoyable than walking.

    I'm guessing you're not much of a sight-seer in real life either.

    Of course not. There is no scenary that is as interesting as a webpage. Even places like the Grand Canyon is probably only good for 5 min of entertainment. I would MUCH rather play a game.

    Now it is not that I don't travel. For example, i just went wine-tasting at Napa couple of weeks ago. But the point is not to look at vineyard (which again, good for may be 5-10 min?) .. but to taste wine, discuss and learn about wine. That, of course, is 100x more interesting than look in at static scenary.

     

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by FrodoFragins
    Originally posted by William12
    It should of been in every game at release after wow showed it works.  Games like rift, swtor have lost customers because it was not in the game fast enough.

    Exactly.  I would have stayed with SWTOR longer if they had this much needed feature.  The excuse that WOW didn't have it at launch is BS.  It's expected these days.

    100% agreed. I probably won't even consider a game without it .. unless i only want to play solo.

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by Mothanos

    LFD did alot of harm in mmo's, WoW made it cross realm, and the ninja's dint even had to shame for stealing the loot, as you would never see that person again.

    I hated it, maybe if it was server only i would have liked it more, but man it instandly destroyed any server community and gave ninja's / griefers free cards to do it in any group....

    Hope GW2 will not be infested with that crap.

     

    1) I don't give a damn about "server community". Online people i met play more than 1 game anyway. True community is the gaming community. I do NOT limit my friend/family to play on a single server. Cross realm is the way to go. You can add ANYONE to your friend list, you know.

    2) Ninja is less of a problem because a) some games are taking the ability away (like LFR in WOW will have NO ninja .. since everyone rolls their own loot like D3), and b) if someone else can ninja, so can i. So it is a completely level playing field.

    3) Griefers? Just hit the "quit" button. There is no point in playing with the group if you do not like them. I don't tolerate anyone i do not like. And there are plenty i do like, given there are MILLIONS out there.

  • Yodi2007Yodi2007 Valdosta, GAPosts: 167Member
    Originally posted by expresso
    Originally posted by Yodi2007

    I never use the LFD/LFG tool! I'd rather make friends ingame and to build a bond rather than insta-join a group based on my role! 

    More and More MMO's are becoming solo oriented, so folks can bypass the social part of gaming! people want to go from level 1 to gear the fastest way they can! forget the filling in between. I miss the days of doing fun stuff and actually earning it :(

    So do you take these people out for a meal with the wives, maybe spend a weekend at your lodge and then invite them into a 5man group?  90% I run deungons wih guildies but the LFG tool lets us fill in that last spot if no one else is around plus many live busy lives they dont have the time to spend half an hour spamming chat to find a group.

    Believe it or not a few of us have meet up and are quite good friends now if they are in the general area where i live. LFG/LFD tool is a lazy way to fix things. 

    Below is where we can disscuss and come up with new ideas for Sandparks!

    http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/5164689#5164689

  • fenistilfenistil GliwicePosts: 3,005Member

    I seriously support LFG tools beign in those mmorpg's from beggining.

     

    I will know what NOT to play.   I will miss 90-95% of mmorpg's that way in future propably. That's not bad though since I am not interested in huge majority of mmorpg's anyway. 

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by Yodi2007

     

    Believe it or not a few of us have meet up and are quite good friends now if they are in the general area where i live. LFG/LFD tool is a lazy way to fix things. 

    1) Internet pop is world wide. Out of my whole guild in WOW, and ALL the friends i have made (including past guilds), ONLY two live within driving distance (and they are a couple). I do not expect that at all.

    2) Nothing wrong with being lazy on a GAME, which is an entertainment product. I don't intend to "work hard" on any entertainment. The desire to engage in entertainment activities have to come naturally. I would much rather use my motivation on actual work.

  • NadiaNadia Canonsburg, PAPosts: 11,866Member Common
    Originally posted by nilden

    Oh give it a rest. Sure spamming chat that your lfg is old hat but pressing a button to join a queue, teleport to the dungeon and faceroll it while no one in the group says a single word and you never see them again is just as useless. Hell they might as well just pop in a group of AI bots, it's not like you could tell the difference.

    There is a middle ground between chat spamming and throw away groups.

    Gonna have to go with something like City of Heroes on this, custom channels for grouping, self flagging for the type of group you wanted to join, personal notes, it was polite to ask people if they wanted to join and promoted socialization. Plus they had 8 person groups with sidekicking and mentoring so you could play with friends of any level.

    i feel the same way about dungeonfinders

    i was hoping that Blizzard would give the option to restrict it to your own server, but that never happened

     

    players complain about GW2 waypoints;

    Dungeon finder teleporting to the dungeon (while you sit in city) is same concept

  • KaosProphetKaosProphet Edmonton, ABPosts: 379Member
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by KaosProphet

    I enjoy fun combat, so it depends on if fighting trash is fun. In D3, fighting trash (or normal mob) is VERY fun. Furious, large groups, all sort of abilties .. so i don't mind. In WOW, not so much.

    In fact, one of my fav dungeon is WOW is tier 9 raid dungeon with NO trash fight. And Blizz has substantially toned down trash leading up to bosses.

    Lastly, of course there *is* a difference. Walking is different than fighting, don't you think?

    If we're talking pointless fights, then I don't think it is that different.  Either is just a means of stretching out the content, so it's not just speed-ran in 5 minutes before queuing up again.  

    Fights are never pointless. The point, of course, is that you defeat something. I don't know how you can confuse between walking, and fighting mobs.

    Confuse, no.  Aesthetically, they're easy to tell apart.  

    But functionally, they're very similar.  You press some buttons, turn your mouse a few times, hit some more buttons and you're done.  If you're not paying attention, maybe you lose/get lost and it takes a little longer.

     

    I am, of couse, against winning fights by doing nothing.

    That's a bit surprising, since you seem to want to get everything else by doing nothing :P

    (snip of me being absolutely right, which was no shock at all)

  • KaosProphetKaosProphet Edmonton, ABPosts: 379Member
    Originally posted by Ginaz
    Lets hope so because standing around for 2 hours looking for a group isn't fun.  In that time, in WoW at least, I could have already run 3 or 4 dungeons which, again, is much more fun than sitting with my thumb up my ass for 2 hours.

    I dunno.  Back when I did play WOW, trolling global chat was way more fun than 90% of the dungeons.  

    But I guess tastes will differ.

  • EmrendilEmrendil TirionPosts: 199Member
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by FrodoFragins
    Originally posted by William12
    It should of been in every game at release after wow showed it works.  Games like rift, swtor have lost customers because it was not in the game fast enough.

    Exactly.  I would have stayed with SWTOR longer if they had this much needed feature.  The excuse that WOW didn't have it at launch is BS.  It's expected these days.

    100% agreed. I probably won't even consider a game without it .. unless i only want to play solo.

    I agree with that. I really hate spaming and reading the chat for hours, when I feel doing dungeons. But if you are in a big guild then maybe finding players is not that hard :) Anyway, I still like to see the LFD feature in the game.

  • ThraliaThralia EngerPosts: 219Member
    Originally posted by Karteli
    Originally posted by nariusseldon

    WOW pioneer it. Now many games have it ....

    It looks like TSW will have it too.

    http://www.thesecretworld.com/news/group_finder_comes_with_digging_deeper

    Now i am more interested to give TSW a try .. may be after it turns F2P.

     

    Blizzard doesn't really pioneer anything, they rip ideas from other games and integrat into their own.  They didn't invent LFD, they didn't invent achievements (Warhammer Online) .. they didn't invent AOE looting, now with MoP.  If you played other games you will see this.

     

    Now Blizzard invents dynamic events in MoP .. Mmm Hmmmm.

     

    Blizzard only exist because people won't change from WoW to another game, either by time invested or by their mental capacity to restrict change.  But WoW gets older and older every minute, and Blizzard isn't upgrading the core infrastructure to keep this game afloat.  WoW has fallen into the dead sea, where some people will still cling to it, but it no longer influences market shifts.  I mean after SWTOR I doubt there will be another WoW clone since SWTOR failed so hard on an already failing game (WoW).

    i feel alot of hate towards blizzard and WoW when i read this. i think u are just crazy mad because it is SUCH a success and no other mmorpg was able to compete with it.

     

    wow didnt pioneer many features but WoW has done them way better than many many other games.

     

    swotor failed not because it was a wow clone..it failed because it didnt have the features wow had in 2006 and it was a singleplayer mmorpg with no motivator to play once u rach lvl cap.

     

    gw2 is failing bigtime right now for many other reasons. just chek gw2 forums on this site and u know why.

  • ScotScot UKPosts: 5,758Member Uncommon

    As I tend to wake up and get out of bed before I log on, I have found finding a few guildies or friends for grouping easy to do. I guess if I was still half asleep I might need a button to press so I could play with strangers, but otherwise no. :)

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by KaosProphet
     

    Confuse, no.  Aesthetically, they're easy to tell apart.  

    But functionally, they're very similar.  You press some buttons, turn your mouse a few times, hit some more buttons and you're done.  If you're not paying attention, maybe you lose/get lost and it takes a little longer.

    LOL .. you can say that about ANY gameplay. Now is FPS shooting the same as fighting a battle in Starcraft RTS?

     

     

    That's a bit surprising, since you seem to want to get everything else by doing nothing :P

    (snip of me being absolutely right, which was no shock at all)

    That is just silly. You can't understand people like SOME activities (like combat) and dislike some others (like walking)?

     

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by Emrendil
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
     

    100% agreed. I probably won't even consider a game without it .. unless i only want to play solo.

    I agree with that. I really hate spaming and reading the chat for hours, when I feel doing dungeons. But if you are in a big guild then maybe finding players is not that hard :) Anyway, I still like to see the LFD feature in the game.

    Yeh. It is not about whether I *can* find players. Of course I can. It is about whether i want to. It is such a chore doing it in the trade channels (before LFD was implemented).

    I am glad those days are gone.

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