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F2P is a scam and you should be ashamed!

245

Comments

  • jpnzjpnz SydneyPosts: 3,529Member
    I play TF2 a lot. Does that mean I should be ashamed? :(

    Gdemami -
    Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.

  • Pratt2112Pratt2112 Mt marion, NYPosts: 1,535Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by TheHavok

    F2P has changed a lot.  Its going to be the standard for Online gaming in the near future.  I use to hate F2P games just like the majority of mmorpg.com users due to most F2P games being total crap.  Then I played League of Legends and discovered a quality game with quality devs and support that is *gasp* free to play.

    The F2P market is becoming saturated.  Publishers are realizing that they can no longer sustain with cheap, crappy F2P korean grinders (and anything similar). 

    We are actually at a really good point for online gaming because there will soon be a big rise in free to play titles that have high quality and support.  And the "pay to win" method is dissolving from publisher and developer's minds.

    Its being replaced by the idea that attracting a huge playerbase who pays in small increments but stays for months, if not years, is more lucrative then a very small player base with a very small percentage of high spenders.

     

    ... which makes it sound strangely similar to subscription-based MMOs.

    The difference being with sub-based MMOs you never have to wonder about how much "being able to play the way you enjoy it" is going to cost you down the line. You don't have to deal with a game design based around the idea of "monetizing you" as much as possible by deliberately implementing speed-bumps, pot-holes and inconveniences into the game, which are then - oh so conveniently - remedied via cash shop purchase. With subs, you're paying a flat fee, and then everything in the game is designed to be accomplished or obtained strictly through gameplay. Pouring more $$$ into a cash shop is never even possible, much less necessary.

    People say "well, you can just avoid those things. You don't have to use the cash shop"

    Well, first, you can't "avoid" them. They're part of the game's design and they are affecting your gameplay every moment you're logged in, just as it's affecting everyone else's. Having a higher tolerance threshold for something doesn't make it go away.

    But here's the thing...  In a sub-based MMO I never even have to ignore any of that. The game isn't designed to "monetize me" every moment I'm logged in. I pay a flat fee once a month, and then that's it. Real money has no role in the game until 30 days later when the billing cycle comes up again. In the meantime, I play as much as I want and do whatever I want. The question of "should I spend more money to make this easier/faster/more convenient" never even comes up (third-party RMT notwithstanding).

    The thing about Cash Shop/F2P MMOs that gets me is how transparent and predictable their designs are to me. You can predict exactly what's in the cash shop without even opening the screen to look at it. All you need to do is pay attention to the restrictions and inconveniences built into the game.

    The game gives you limited inventory space, while also requring you to carry a lot of different items around while out questing or leveling up? Oh look, they sell inventory expansions in the cash shop. There's an "affordable" temporary version that has to be re-purchased every so often, or there's a more expensive but "permanent" one that will set you back for at least the cost of 1 month's sub fee.

    Mobs hitting really hard and MP draining faster than you're comfortable with? The in-game MP/HP potions not quite cutting it anymore and you either end up forfeiting or dying? Oh, look! There are superior MP/HP pots that are much more potent for sale on the cash shop!

    The xp curve slowing down substantially and you're finding it's taking much longer than you like to level up, even though you've found the most optimal method the game provides to level? Oh look! There's handy-dandy xp potions for sale in the cash shop that will get me at least 50% more xp per kill. They only come in 10-packs, though, so you're gonna need to keep buying them if you want to keep a decent leveling pace up over time.

    The big red herring in it all is how those arguing for F2P Cash Shop MMOs almost always go straight for the "pay to win" scenario as though that's the "a ha! Gotcha!" argument for their case. Not only is that argument non-demonstrable, it's completely counter-intuitive.

    Look at the way people react the moment a F2P developer tries to implement something that even smells like "pay to win" to the players. They go into "Oh, hell no you're not!" mode over it and the developer is (deservingly) raked over the coals. The idea of "pay to win" is a deterrent for even the most avid F2P supporters. So saying "well, if they're not pay to win, then they're okay" is to totally miss the point.

    F2P/Cash Shop MMOs survive off consumable items. The cheaper items that players will need to buy repeatedly over time. Potions and trinkets for HP, XP, MP, etc... those are the bread and butter. The game design, again, is designed around making those things being as beneficial as possible, both by making the bonuses they give very appealing (50% xp bonus, high potency MP and HP potions, etc) and by making the associated gameplay as punishing as possible without going over board.

    They also survive off convenience items, which again, there are typically associated inconveniences built directly into the game's design.

    F2P/Cash Shop MMOs also work because people have demonstrated - empirically - that they will rationalize spending more than a month's sub - far more in many cases - in the cash shop as somehow being a better deal than a subscription would be. They're paying several months' subscriptions in a single week sometimes, and aren't playing any more than they'd be playing a sub-based game. Yet, they'll argue that they're getting the better deal. Or so they claim. You have to wonder who they're really trying to convince sometimes.

    F2P/Cash Shops work because there are enough people out there willing to delude themselves into believing that spending many times more than a monthly $15 sub on individual cash shop items is somehow a better deal, "because they choose to do it".

    The number of times I've seen people argue that subs aren't worth it because they don't have enough time to play MMOs, only to see them turn around and talk about spending $50+ in the cash shop for another MMO, and arguing it's "a better deal" because they "chose to spend the money" is all I need to understand why Cash Shops work. They work because there are an awful lot of people out there willing to delude themselves.

     

     

     

     

  • Z3R01Z3R01 NYC, NYPosts: 2,426Member

    Yeah... And having to fork over 15 bucks every month just to access something you already paid for isnt a scam?

     

    Playing:

    Waiting on:

  • Loke666Loke666 MalmöPosts: 17,949Member Uncommon

    F2P is not really a scam, freemium on the other hand is a big scam.

    Playing a game like Perfect world wont cost you any more than a P2P game would, Everquest 2 on the other hand is actually more expensive since they changed model.

    But the "free" thing isnt true of course, nothing is really free.

  • EnerzealEnerzeal WarringtonPosts: 326Member

    I've only played LoL which had a good f2p model. Other than that, it's a rip off.

     

    I prefer the Subscription model for the simple reason that it bars the rich from spending hundreds if not thousands of dollars/pounds/euros on their characters. Subscription model sets everyone at a level playing field, which I much prefer. 

    In my mind an F2P model would only include skins, and I sure as hell better be able to unlock them my self over time.

  • StonesDKStonesDK SomewherePosts: 1,805Member

    Free to Play

    Not Free to Enjoy

  • VesaviusVesavius BristolPosts: 7,640Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Matticus75

    Free to play is nothing more than a business revenue generator......

    Thats all good if it provided for the consumer more immersion, new aspects to gaming, improved AI, mixing more RTS/FPS/RPG elements into one combined expierence, better quality games, polished, less bugs better graphics...ect

     

    With improved technology we should expierence more for what we currently pay for, yet with F2P and those who participate in it, promote the garbage we see, we should see something more closely to Moore's Law (not pricisely, but not 10 year ago tech games with new skins)

     

    With current software we get the same games that took lets say 100 people to make over thousands of manhours to complete in 2003. To games of the same quality in 2012 that takes 25 people to make with a few hundred manhours to finish (partially) coupled with F2P revenue................means you pay more, for the same, well really in the end with less.....lets play math.............

     

    Of cource those who view the free market as a less of an idea and more an absolute religon would state that the F2P is the result of the consumer who is the one promoting its propagation  (I mean a crew that is in mutiny, is never the fault of the capitan of ship who is %100 repsonsible for the actions of his crew unless captian disagress with it, or the CEO that dishes out garbage and does not provide any alternatives and shuts out all competion from other free market competators is ok you know)

     

    The solution..............NONE, just wanted to communicate that when you think F2P is a great idea, and then complain its low quaility, then please understand what your going and dont think outside of both sides of your brain............

     

    F2P also has a negative profound impact on the core design of any game, which most folks just don't see because it is under the hood.

    It really is a crappy dishonest model that delivers a worse experience for gamers.

     

     

     

  • Pratt2112Pratt2112 Mt marion, NYPosts: 1,535Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Z3R01

    Yeah... And having to fork over 15 bucks every month just to access something you already paid for isnt a scam?

     

    No, actually, it isn't.

    What many people (yourself included, apparently) don't understand is that MMORPGs are not only games, they're also a service.

    When you sign up for cable service, the company typically charges you for the cable box... then continues to bill you every month on top of that.

    Are you paying for the cable box over and over? No. You're paying for the cable service provided through it.

    Here's another way of looking at it.

    When you buy a typical single-player game, you bring it home, you play through it and finish it. Does the developer continue to keep streaming new content to the game month after month for nothing? Or is the game you bought and paid for all you get? Do these games have persistent online worlds hosting communities of thousands, if not 100s of thousands, that are online 24/7 whether you're playing or not?

    No, they don't.

    You buy the game. You subscribe to the service.

    There's a lot of information out there on the MMO model, provided by industry experts and veterans... I suggest you check it out, to get a better understanding of what MMOs actually are.

     

     

  • ThaneThane berlinPosts: 2,230Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Matticus75

    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    LOL ... F2P is having fun without paying. It is someone else is subsidizing my gaming. I don't see a problem. If it is not fun, don't play it. If it is fun, and free, why shouldn't i play?

    Well throwing dog poop can be fun to some people and its free too.........

    But it is still dog poop

     

    Some people like to be trashy and that free as well......But they are still trashy

     

    whats your point?

    you wanna say GW2 or planetside 2 are trash?
    never seen anyone talk so much without actually telling anything.

    "I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"

  • FadedbombFadedbomb Aiken, SCPosts: 2,081Member
    Originally posted by TheHavok

    F2P has changed a lot.  Its going to be the standard for Online gaming in the near future.  I use to hate F2P games just like the majority of mmorpg.com users due to most F2P games being total crap.  Then I played League of Legends and discovered a quality game with quality devs and support that is *gasp* free to play.

    The F2P market is becoming saturated.  Publishers are realizing that they can no longer sustain with cheap, crappy F2P korean grinders (and anything similar). 

    We are actually at a really good point for online gaming because there will soon be a big rise in free to play titles that have high quality and support.  And the "pay to win" method is dissolving from publisher and developer's minds.

    Its being replaced by the idea that attracting a huge playerbase who pays in small increments but stays for months, if not years, is more lucrative then a very small player base with a very small percentage of high spenders.

     

    No it hasn't, and no it will not be.

     

    Every single half-decent "F2P" product on the market is a failed P2P product, and more than not they're failed WoW-Clones that couldn't produce enough quality to be worth $15/month.

     

    Good, quality products are worth $15/month and will generate far more revenue than "Pay As U Go, aka: F2P".

     

    If you were even minutely correct than the move to "Free To Play" for SWTOR wouldn't have been seen as an utter FAILURE that it is.

    The Theory of Conservative Conservation of Ignorant Stupidity:
    Having a different opinion must mean you're a troll.

  • FadedbombFadedbomb Aiken, SCPosts: 2,081Member
    Originally posted by Thane
    Originally posted by Matticus75
    Originally posted by nariusseldon

    LOL ... F2P is having fun without paying. It is someone else is subsidizing my gaming. I don't see a problem. If it is not fun, don't play it.

    If it is fun, and free, why shouldn't i play?

    Well throwing dog poop can be fun to some people and its free too.........

    But it is still dog poop

     

    Some people like to be trashy and that free as well......But they are still trashy

     

    whats your point? you wanna say GW2 or planetside 2 are trash? never seen anyone talk so much without actually telling anything.

    Remains to be seen, but so far it is looking like a generally high quality themepark. No surprises here as it was never billed as anything other than a themepark.

     

    Yes, Planetside 2 is actually quite terrible. It is built around the idea of paying for power, and I've been in beta ever since it started. I can tell you AS FACT that the guns you can buy with real money are actually quite a deal more powerful than the free ones, and the ones you can buy with real money are actually slowly unlocked normal xp gained ones. Meaning i can drop $100 now and buy those 10 guns that will take you 3months of solid gaming to unlock. Utter BS! Higby lied to us, and some are still taking their time to wake up to that fact.

    The Theory of Conservative Conservation of Ignorant Stupidity:
    Having a different opinion must mean you're a troll.

  • PhryPhry HampshirePosts: 6,288Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Thane
    Originally posted by Matticus75
    Originally posted by nariusseldon

    LOL ... F2P is having fun without paying. It is someone else is subsidizing my gaming. I don't see a problem. If it is not fun, don't play it.

    If it is fun, and free, why shouldn't i play?

    Well throwing dog poop can be fun to some people and its free too.........

    But it is still dog poop

     

    Some people like to be trashy and that free as well......But they are still trashy

     

    whats your point? you wanna say GW2 or planetside 2 are trash? never seen anyone talk so much without actually telling anything.

    for every 'decent' F2P MMO, there are probably half a dozen that arent, GW2 is a B2P game, and Planetside2 hasnt released yet so we don't yet know whether its one of the 'good' games, or one of the bad, though given SOE's rep, don't hold your breath...  the trouble is, it doesnt take many F2P games with extortionate microtransaction models, to give the rest a bad name, though a little research can go a long way in finding the bad ones, after all, you get games from one extreme - Entropia Universe, to the other - Dungeons and Dragons Online, and everything inbetween image

    but if you treat them as a free trial, you can get your feet wet without 'drowning' image

  • Z3R01Z3R01 NYC, NYPosts: 2,426Member
    Originally posted by TangentPoint
    Originally posted by Z3R01

    Yeah... And having to fork over 15 bucks every month just to access something you already paid for isnt a scam?

     

    No, actually, it isn't.

    What many people (yourself included, apparently) don't understand is that MMORPGs are not only games, they're also a service.

    When you sign up for cable service, the company typically charges you for the cable box... then continues to bill you every month on top of that.

    Are you paying for the cable box over and over? No. You're paying for the cable service provided through it.

    Here's another way of looking at it.

    When you buy a typical single-player game, you bring it home, you play through it and finish it. Does the developer continue to keep streaming new content to the game month after month for nothing? Or is the game you bought and paid for all you get? Do these games have persistent online worlds hosting communities of thousands, if not 100s of thousands, that are online 24/7 whether you're playing or not?

    No, they don't.

    You buy the game. You subscribe to the service.

    There's a lot of information out there on the MMO model, provided by industry experts and veterans... I suggest you check it out, to get a better understanding of what MMOs actually are.

     

     

    Video games are not a service... You believe this because you my friend are brainwashed... 

    You've been getting scammed for more than a decade and at this point it seems ok for them to deny you access to something you already paid for.

     

    Imagine if other gaming genres did this? Imagine paying 60 bucks for Darksiders 2 and then 30 days later being denied access if you didn't pay another 15 bucks? 

    People would lose their shit.

    Yet for a MMO its ok? because every 3-4 months you get a patch? or in WoWs case 8 months? give me a break.

    Playing:

    Waiting on:

  • ThaneThane berlinPosts: 2,230Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Fadedbomb

    Originally posted by Thane
    Originally posted by Matticus75
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    LOL ... F2P is having fun without paying. It is someone else is subsidizing my gaming. I don't see a problem. If it is not fun, don't play it. If it is fun, and free, why shouldn't i play?

    Well throwing dog poop can be fun to some people and its free too.........

    But it is still dog poop

     

    Some people like to be trashy and that free as well......But they are still trashy

     

    whats your point? you wanna say GW2 or planetside 2 are trash? never seen anyone talk so much without actually telling anything.

    Remains to be seen, but so far it is looking like a generally high quality themepark. No surprises here as it was never billed as anything other than a themepark.

     

    Yes, Planetside 2 is actually quite terrible. It is built around the idea of paying for power, and I've been in beta ever since it started. I can tell you AS FACT that the guns you can buy with real money are actually quite a deal more powerful than the free ones, and the ones you can buy with real money are actually slowly unlocked normal xp gained ones. Meaning i can drop $100 now and buy those 10 guns that will take you 3months of solid gaming to unlock. Utter BS! Higby lied to us, and some are still taking their time to wake up to that fact.

     

    or, i BUY the game client and PLAY FOR FREE without paying anything. which will unlock me 4 guns per faction and give me a decent bonus for half a year.

    you guys need to troll less and read more. pathatic.



    uh and btw, the guns you can buy atm cost 7500 and 12k auraxium. if you need 3 months to farm that, you should stick to your old games (and that's a "fact" i throw at your head now).

    "I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"

  • Z3R01Z3R01 NYC, NYPosts: 2,426Member
    Originally posted by Fadedbomb
    Originally posted by Thane
    Originally posted by Matticus75
    Originally posted by nariusseldon

    LOL ... F2P is having fun without paying. It is someone else is subsidizing my gaming. I don't see a problem. If it is not fun, don't play it.

    If it is fun, and free, why shouldn't i play?

    Well throwing dog poop can be fun to some people and its free too.........

    But it is still dog poop

     

    Some people like to be trashy and that free as well......But they are still trashy

     

    whats your point? you wanna say GW2 or planetside 2 are trash? never seen anyone talk so much without actually telling anything.

    Remains to be seen, but so far it is looking like a generally high quality themepark. No surprises here as it was never billed as anything other than a themepark.

     

    Yes, Planetside 2 is actually quite terrible. It is built around the idea of paying for power, and I've been in beta ever since it started. I can tell you AS FACT that the guns you can buy with real money are actually quite a deal more powerful than the free ones, and the ones you can buy with real money are actually slowly unlocked normal xp gained ones. Meaning i can drop $100 now and buy those 10 guns that will take you 3months of solid gaming to unlock. Utter BS! Higby lied to us, and some are still taking their time to wake up to that fact.

    PS2 is a free game! The only way these games money is by letting people cut out the grind by paying for stuff. Who cares if it takes a month to unlock stuff for free... Servers dont stay open with hopes and dreams bro.

    Playing:

    Waiting on:

  • ThaneThane berlinPosts: 2,230Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Z3R01

    Originally posted by Fadedbomb
    Originally posted by Thane
    Originally posted by Matticus75
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    LOL ... F2P is having fun without paying. It is someone else is subsidizing my gaming. I don't see a problem. If it is not fun, don't play it. If it is fun, and free, why shouldn't i play?

    Well throwing dog poop can be fun to some people and its free too.........

    But it is still dog poop

     

    Some people like to be trashy and that free as well......But they are still trashy

     

    whats your point? you wanna say GW2 or planetside 2 are trash? never seen anyone talk so much without actually telling anything.

    Remains to be seen, but so far it is looking like a generally high quality themepark. No surprises here as it was never billed as anything other than a themepark.

     

    Yes, Planetside 2 is actually quite terrible. It is built around the idea of paying for power, and I've been in beta ever since it started. I can tell you AS FACT that the guns you can buy with real money are actually quite a deal more powerful than the free ones, and the ones you can buy with real money are actually slowly unlocked normal xp gained ones. Meaning i can drop $100 now and buy those 10 guns that will take you 3months of solid gaming to unlock. Utter BS! Higby lied to us, and some are still taking their time to wake up to that fact.

    PS2 is a free game! The only way these games money is by letting people cut out the grind by paying for stuff. Who cares if it takes a month to unlock stuff for free... Servers dont stay open with hopes and dreams bro.

     

    as said above, 7k and 12k auraxium are surely no months farm

    "I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"

  • Z3R01Z3R01 NYC, NYPosts: 2,426Member
    Originally posted by Thane
    Originally posted by Z3R01
    Originally posted by Fadedbomb
    Originally posted by Thane
    Originally posted by Matticus75
    Originally posted by nariusseldon

    LOL ... F2P is having fun without paying. It is someone else is subsidizing my gaming. I don't see a problem. If it is not fun, don't play it.

    If it is fun, and free, why shouldn't i play?

    Well throwing dog poop can be fun to some people and its free too.........

    But it is still dog poop

     

    Some people like to be trashy and that free as well......But they are still trashy

     

    whats your point? you wanna say GW2 or planetside 2 are trash? never seen anyone talk so much without actually telling anything.

    Remains to be seen, but so far it is looking like a generally high quality themepark. No surprises here as it was never billed as anything other than a themepark.

     

    Yes, Planetside 2 is actually quite terrible. It is built around the idea of paying for power, and I've been in beta ever since it started. I can tell you AS FACT that the guns you can buy with real money are actually quite a deal more powerful than the free ones, and the ones you can buy with real money are actually slowly unlocked normal xp gained ones. Meaning i can drop $100 now and buy those 10 guns that will take you 3months of solid gaming to unlock. Utter BS! Higby lied to us, and some are still taking their time to wake up to that fact.

    PS2 is a free game! The only way these games money is by letting people cut out the grind by paying for stuff. Who cares if it takes a month to unlock stuff for free... Servers dont stay open with hopes and dreams bro.

     

    as said above, 7k and 12k auraxium are surely no months farm

    Even if they were it wouldnt matter. A game is not pay2win if you can also unlock cash shop items through gameplay even if its a grind. Look at tribes, its much more of a grind. Pay 5 bucks to unlock a gun or farm for 30 hours for a gun... your choice.

    Playing:

    Waiting on:

  • ThaneThane berlinPosts: 2,230Member Uncommon
    some people just wanna see the world troll ^^

    they dont need arguments or prove. they just throw out random arguments and claim they are fact :)

    "I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"

  • thinktank001thinktank001 oasisPosts: 2,027Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Z3R01

    Even if they were it wouldnt matter. A game is not pay2win if you can also unlock cash shop items through gameplay even if its a grind. Look at tribes, its much more of a grind. Pay 5 bucks to unlock a gun or farm for 30 hours for a gun... your choice.

     

    Pay2Win is a business model and what you think is irrelevant.    Free2Play isn't a scam, but a half truth and an advertising term used to get players to play games with cash shops. 

     

    If it is has a cash shop, then the game is P2W.   Players can pay for an advantage.   It doesn't matter if it is short/long term.   The advanatage is there.

  • FadedbombFadedbomb Aiken, SCPosts: 2,081Member
    Originally posted by Z3R01
    Originally posted by Fadedbomb
    Originally posted by Thane
    Originally posted by Matticus75
    Originally posted by nariusseldon

    LOL ... F2P is having fun without paying. It is someone else is subsidizing my gaming. I don't see a problem. If it is not fun, don't play it.

    If it is fun, and free, why shouldn't i play?

    Well throwing dog poop can be fun to some people and its free too.........

    But it is still dog poop

     

    Some people like to be trashy and that free as well......But they are still trashy

     

    whats your point? you wanna say GW2 or planetside 2 are trash? never seen anyone talk so much without actually telling anything.

    Remains to be seen, but so far it is looking like a generally high quality themepark. No surprises here as it was never billed as anything other than a themepark.

     

    Yes, Planetside 2 is actually quite terrible. It is built around the idea of paying for power, and I've been in beta ever since it started. I can tell you AS FACT that the guns you can buy with real money are actually quite a deal more powerful than the free ones, and the ones you can buy with real money are actually slowly unlocked normal xp gained ones. Meaning i can drop $100 now and buy those 10 guns that will take you 3months of solid gaming to unlock. Utter BS! Higby lied to us, and some are still taking their time to wake up to that fact.

    PS2 is a free game! The only way these games money is by letting people cut out the grind by paying for stuff. Who cares if it takes a month to unlock stuff for free... Servers dont stay open with hopes and dreams bro.

    What you just said is the VERY DEFINITION of what we've been fighting companies from doing for years. Pay-To-Win, skipping the "grind" with REAL world money.

    I'd rather pay a flat rate of $15/month, with ZERO cash shop, and everyone be on level terms. If the product is worth the money it'll be highly successful. If not, it will fail like it should in an "Open Market".

    The Theory of Conservative Conservation of Ignorant Stupidity:
    Having a different opinion must mean you're a troll.

  • FadedbombFadedbomb Aiken, SCPosts: 2,081Member
    Originally posted by Thane
    some people just wanna see the world troll ^^ they dont need arguments or prove. they just throw out random arguments and claim they are fact :)

    Seems to be what you're doing right now for sure.

     

    You forget that Auraxis point gains are boosted for BETA, and yes it will take roughly 2+ months to unlock said weapons. Or, you can go the PayToWin route, spend $50-100, and get everything now thereby gaining an advantage.

     

    When did you allow developers to brainwash you?

    The Theory of Conservative Conservation of Ignorant Stupidity:
    Having a different opinion must mean you're a troll.

  • kaiser3282kaiser3282 Phoenix, AZPosts: 2,690Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Fadedbomb
    Originally posted by Z3R01
    Originally posted by Fadedbomb
    Originally posted by Thane
    Originally posted by Matticus75
    Originally posted by nariusseldon

    LOL ... F2P is having fun without paying. It is someone else is subsidizing my gaming. I don't see a problem. If it is not fun, don't play it.

    If it is fun, and free, why shouldn't i play?

    Well throwing dog poop can be fun to some people and its free too.........

    But it is still dog poop

     

    Some people like to be trashy and that free as well......But they are still trashy

     

    whats your point? you wanna say GW2 or planetside 2 are trash? never seen anyone talk so much without actually telling anything.

    Remains to be seen, but so far it is looking like a generally high quality themepark. No surprises here as it was never billed as anything other than a themepark.

     

    Yes, Planetside 2 is actually quite terrible. It is built around the idea of paying for power, and I've been in beta ever since it started. I can tell you AS FACT that the guns you can buy with real money are actually quite a deal more powerful than the free ones, and the ones you can buy with real money are actually slowly unlocked normal xp gained ones. Meaning i can drop $100 now and buy those 10 guns that will take you 3months of solid gaming to unlock. Utter BS! Higby lied to us, and some are still taking their time to wake up to that fact.

    PS2 is a free game! The only way these games money is by letting people cut out the grind by paying for stuff. Who cares if it takes a month to unlock stuff for free... Servers dont stay open with hopes and dreams bro.

    What you just said is the VERY DEFINITION of what we've been fighting companies from doing for years. Pay-To-Win, skipping the "grind" with REAL world money.

    I'd rather pay a flat rate of $15/month, with ZERO cash shop, and everyone be on level terms. If the product is worth the money it'll be highly successful. If not, it will fail like it should in an "Open Market".

    Problem is, everyone isnt equal in P2P either. It comes down to who has the most time to spend grinding away while ignoring the rest of life. Youll spend 8+ hours a day grinding in a game, others will spend 8+ hours a day "grinding" at real job, taking care of their family, etc. Should they be unable to enjoy the same things as you just because you have nothing else to do?

    Its always kind of funny to me to see these types of things. I would think that someone who invested so much time in a game tha they earned stuff through the grind wouldnt care if others have the same stuff as them, in fact I would think you would enjoy it and laugh at them when you kick the crap out of them because you have become a better player with all that time playing. But maybe thats just it. Maybe you cant compete with people in equal gear who barely play a game, even though youve invested hundreds of hours getting "good" at the game, and so you would rather have that illusion there that better gear because of time spent playing actually = better player.

  • PyukPyuk Eugene, ORPosts: 690Member Uncommon
    So what, you think game companies should be a charity service or something? Of course they're money generators - how do you think the people who make the game will get paid? Folks don't work 12 hours a day building a game out of the kindness of their hearts and the hope that someone like you will like them. They have a job and expecct to get paid via this "business revenue generator." In fact, that's how most service oriented companies make money - by charging money! What a concept!

    I make spreadsheets at work - I don't want to make them for the games I play.

  • RobsolfRobsolf Grand Rapids, MIPosts: 4,246Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Loktofeit
    Originally posted by Matticus75

    Free to play is nothing more than a business revenue generator......

    ...just like any other product or service created by any business.

    Indeed.  Ya hardly need to be a hardcore conservative to accept that people design their products with the intention to make money.

    Just like P2P, there are good F2P games and bad ones.  Bad ones make you buy things you need, while good ones compel you to buy things you want.

    Either way, the game needs your money.

  • FadedbombFadedbomb Aiken, SCPosts: 2,081Member
    Originally posted by kaiser3282
    Originally posted by Fadedbomb
    Originally posted by Z3R01
    Originally posted by Fadedbomb
    Originally posted by Thane
    Originally posted by Matticus75
    Originally posted by nariusseldon

    LOL ... F2P is having fun without paying. It is someone else is subsidizing my gaming. I don't see a problem. If it is not fun, don't play it.

    If it is fun, and free, why shouldn't i play?

    Well throwing dog poop can be fun to some people and its free too.........

    But it is still dog poop

     

    Some people like to be trashy and that free as well......But they are still trashy

     

    whats your point? you wanna say GW2 or planetside 2 are trash? never seen anyone talk so much without actually telling anything.

    Remains to be seen, but so far it is looking like a generally high quality themepark. No surprises here as it was never billed as anything other than a themepark.

     

    Yes, Planetside 2 is actually quite terrible. It is built around the idea of paying for power, and I've been in beta ever since it started. I can tell you AS FACT that the guns you can buy with real money are actually quite a deal more powerful than the free ones, and the ones you can buy with real money are actually slowly unlocked normal xp gained ones. Meaning i can drop $100 now and buy those 10 guns that will take you 3months of solid gaming to unlock. Utter BS! Higby lied to us, and some are still taking their time to wake up to that fact.

    PS2 is a free game! The only way these games money is by letting people cut out the grind by paying for stuff. Who cares if it takes a month to unlock stuff for free... Servers dont stay open with hopes and dreams bro.

    What you just said is the VERY DEFINITION of what we've been fighting companies from doing for years. Pay-To-Win, skipping the "grind" with REAL world money.

    I'd rather pay a flat rate of $15/month, with ZERO cash shop, and everyone be on level terms. If the product is worth the money it'll be highly successful. If not, it will fail like it should in an "Open Market".

    Problem is, everyone isnt equal in P2P either. It comes down to who has the most time to spend grinding away while ignoring the rest of life. Youll spend 8+ hours a day grinding in a game, others will spend 8+ hours a day "grinding" at real job, taking care of their family, etc. Should they be unable to enjoy the same things as you just because you have nothing else to do?

    Its always kind of funny to me to see these types of things. I would think that someone who invested so much time in a game tha they earned stuff through the grind wouldnt care if others have the same stuff as them, in fact I would think you would enjoy it and laugh at them when you kick the crap out of them because you have become a better player with all that time playing. But maybe thats just it. Maybe you cant compete with people in equal gear who barely play a game, even though youve invested hundreds of hours getting "good" at the game, and so you would rather have that illusion there that better gear because of time spent playing actually = better player.

    I work 8hrs a day, 5 days a week, for a total of 40hrs a week. I also can play for roughly 5hrs a day if I choose to. Another person's ability to spend time on something is an illogical statement. This will always be true no matter how you approach the matter. The fact that the same person doing 8hrs/day of gaming has to deal with the same stuff I do rather than spending $50 i'm not willing to spend each month on a VIDEO GAME means we're on level terms.

    Your argument, albeit straightforward, is flawed in every regard. It has nothing to do with people having the same gear as you with less time invested. It has to do with that they're not EARNING what you earned through legitimate means, and that they're essentially cheating by using a credit card at a VIDEO GAME for virtual achievements.

    It is pathetic, and completely unacceptable. You will NEVER convince someone against Pay-To-Win that it is EVER an acceptable norm.

    The Theory of Conservative Conservation of Ignorant Stupidity:
    Having a different opinion must mean you're a troll.

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