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Originally posted by GeezerGamer Originally posted by grimal Originally posted by Bad.dog See what I find funny is I never hear fans using or saying any of the hype words ....the second comming ,Jesus and the holy grail are all phrases used by the haters .I also don't see GW2 making WOW sweat ,,,,I'm sure all they want are a share of the 9 million former WoW players ...the 2 million or so present players are a lost cause anyways
Not this again.
Do a little search on the forums. It's really not that hard to miss.
And yes, the fans here did hype the bajeezus out of this one.
And while the fans wont actually use the term "Messiah" or some such reference anymore, It wasn't that long ago that we did see it treated as such. Also, Take a look at these threads, and show me how many times, the fans have acknowleged the OP's complaint without trying to somehow discredit, diminish or derail it. Almost without exception, they simply don't exist. So while the fans won't use the term, they sure do treat it as such and anyone who disagrees is treated as a "blashphemer". This why the term has surfaced. With the history on these boards, the hyperbole is justified.
Discredit? Simple Point:
OP - there is no character progression / customization / variation
Reality - At level 80 you will have approx 75 different Traits to choose from, along with the direct stat boosts given by spending point sin specific Trait lines. Approx 20-25 Utility skills depending on class, and 7 Elite skills.
You act is if we are discrediting him with false inormation. Theres a difference between that, and correcting people.
Playing the game and having the slightest understanding of the game mechanics FTW!
Originally posted by JeroKane I think it's the whole skill system and the way they did it is fundamentally flawed. When you have 80 levels of content to go through and able to unlock all your skills before you're level 10, then you've got a problem. Especially in a themepark game. Just increasing stats with traits for 70 levels is just borefest. Period! The moment you've unlocked all weapon skills, you basically done. You're stuck spamming/cycling the same 5 - 9 skills over and over again until lvl80. At least on my Ranger it took me to level 18 or so to unlock all weapon skills. But on my engineer I was absolutely bored and unlocked both weapons before level 6, because it has only 2 weapon skills (gun and rifle) ! Terrible. But I guess it's because the game has been designed for PVP and want everyone to unlock all skills as fast as possible. That's fine! But for 80 levels of PVE content this design philosophy is absolutely terrible. :-( Within 1 week I am back playing TSW and actually enjoying and appreciating it much much more than before. /shrug
Engineers have less weapons because they have a variety of kits to use, which give you a whole new set of skills. You havent even unlocked your 1st kit until minimum level 5. There are several kits in different tiers and you wont have access to all of your kits until youve spent a minimum of 26 skill points, and thats if you buy a kit as your 1st thing in the 3rd tier.
The variety given by kits is why Engis also dont have weapon swapping. Similar to how elementalists dont have weapon swap because they have access to 20 different skills through their 4 attunements with any weapon.
Originally posted by Demmi77 it's not for everyone, i am sorry you feel like you wasted money on it op. the skill system is the first 5 skills are attached to your weapon and/or secondary weapon. If you use a sword and shield you get a set of skills. if you use a two handed sword there are different skills. for example i play a guardian, plus with weapon swapping, you add more. let's start with weapon skills first though. i use a greatsword and swap it with a scepter/shield, that right there is 8 unique skills. There are sword/shield, hammer, mace, staff, etc. ALl providing different skills. you have your 6-10 skills slots as well, these you get from getting skill points around the map. There are a variety of these from passive bonuses to active bonuses. The skill system in guild wars 2 is so intense and brings about a level of complication not really seen in a while. When i am out farming i run a signet build with my greatsword pushing as much damage. WHen i pvp, or dungeon, i have around 9 options depending on the group and dungeon. Swapping weapons, from support to damage to tank and back and forth. To really play this game and enjoy it you really have to get out of the wow ui mentality and understnad how abilities really work. This isnt even counting the water combat skills weapons which are another addition. If what you want is to level up get fireball rank 1, rank 2 , immolate rank 1 rank 2 etc.. and then spam the same ability on kobolds while leveling , then more power to you. I pesonally enjoy learning the pros and cons of each weapon and it's skill set. In pvp the weapon/skill choices add so much variety it's amazing. questing, if you don't like it again, that's fine but the way you laid it out is also incomplete. When you enter the first zone there are the hearts all over the map, there are points of interest , vistas, and dynamic events occurring. In just about every other mmo, you go to the first town. Go kill 10 wolves/goats or whatever, go back, get another quest go back. In guild wars 2 you have one quest in that area. It almost always involves something other than killing as well. I choose to do the killing cause im lazy but there are other options. A lot of the time dynamic events ocurr in these areas as well. Which pushes it along quicker. Each quest (heart npc) takes 10 minutes at most to do. THere is also the exploration, gathering that give xp. When you finish the heart you also get the option to buy from that npc vendor. between the dynamic events, and the exploration. I don't understand how you can prefer rift/wow over something that keeps you more involved. Guild wars 2 promotes social play without requiring you to "find a group". People run around questing and helping everyone out. There is no kills tealing of mobs, nodes, xp. Does it get tiresome after a while? well yah but that's why there is wvw and crafting and pvp and dungeons. The dungeons arent' a chore like wow, you do them a couple times and when they get easier they also get faster. The leveling/item scaling in dungeons is also nice. I run CM with a friend who is level 40, he gets his 40 items , and the mobs drop my level appropriate items. So you aren't forced to run specific dungeons. THe scaling makes choice a viable option in pve in this game. i don't really understand the progression argument either. your chracter in guild wars two progresses much further than in wow / rift. In every other mmo , it's an item grind. In guild wars two you have traits, you have personal dyes, cosmetics, achievements, etc. Compared to other mmo's this game really isn't much different than wow, rift, etc... maybe even a little bit more involved. You can make your character anything you want in guild wars 2, in wow, you are forced into a much more narrow character life. In guild wars you are not. pvp is still in it's infacy, and you are not "forced" to stand still casting a lot of spells. In fact, position means much more in guild wars 2 than it does in alot of other mmos. Dodging, skill placement, and skill usage are important. I do agree that there are alot of spam fests in choke points in wvw, but it's not designed as a 40 minute battle. It will take coordination to seriously dominate a wvw map. being able to max level and spvp has always been a guild wars thing, and it's not gear dependant. SInce you have a lack of understanding on teh skill system, pvp will probably make you hate it. Guild wars 2 is just a new and improved guild wars 1 with, a more mmo feel, a larger pvp focuse and a much larger starting game. What it sounds like op, is that you want a yellow exlamation, be told where to go, go back, go out, go back, move on, you want a old school skill system, and you want to have a direct item advantage over people instead of relying on your skill as a player. with all the other crap releases of games, swtor etc.. guild wars 2 is actually the closest thing to a complete launch of a game the mmo community has experienced in years.
This is a really good post! Thanks for detailing these aspects, and makes me more inclined to try the game out once it is available again. My faith in ANet was shaken with all of the stories of accounts hacked, I guess that is the last obstacle once they release more codes.
I am very interested in GW2 as a game with a different mentality to WoW, which I play as my main game and what you describe is more what I am looking for.
Edit - to poster above me, what is in the game is what you make of it. The devs can only offer so much, then it is up to us players. I used to think that WoW had nothing for me at max level to do since I dislike BG-style PvP and raids, but I was wrong. I am having an absolute blast with my level 85s and very little of it is to do with gear-acquisition.
Playing MUDs and MMOs since 1994.
Originally posted by grimal Originally posted by Bad.dog See what I find funny is I never hear fans using or saying any of the hype words ....the second comming ,Jesus and the holy grail are all phrases used by the haters .I also don't see GW2 making WOW sweat ,,,,I'm sure all they want are a share of the 9 million former WoW players ...the 2 million or so present players are a lost cause anyways
Contrary to popular belief it's not the fans that generate hype its the haters. Hype is generally created from constantly conversing about the game. And no one talks about it more than haters. Every few minutes leading up to release a thread titled "Why GW2 will fail" or something to that affect was created. Fans come to defend it and haters come to bash it. A larger hater force generally shows up, though thats not always the case.
Haters are the ones that drive the hype train, usually so that in the end if the game fails they can say "I told you so". The hype for this game was pretty mellow compared to others before it and people were more cautious. On top of that as Bad.dog said I don't think I ever saw a single "fanboi" or crazed cultist say that this game[or any game for that matter] would be the second coming of jesus. That phrase was something created by haters and is nothing more than putting words in everyones mouths.
The heart quests are not that great no, but the main point of the PvE game is exploration and dungeons. The heart quests are just put in so old Wow fans will have something to start with.
Go around and explore, find jump puzzles, do DEs and run dungeons, that is the enjoyable part of PvE.
I like it, have been playing for hours each day since it comes out and gotten a bunch of players into it. It is nice with a MMO that dont let you box 2 characters or even 3 when you play.
But then again, taste differs and noone is forcing anyone to play, if you dont like it just move on.
Originally posted by kaiser3282 Originally posted by Nikkita Originally posted by sookster54 Originally posted by kadepsyson Fail. I got one out of a black lion chest. Black Lion chests are unlocked with cash shop keys. Try again please.
I really doubt you have been unlocking chests. You make it sound as if keys drop like candies. I have 4 alts ranging from lvl 20 to 40 and i have got 2 keys from drops and another 1 through personal story reward. In my bank i have 20 chests now waiting to be opened.
So either you are very lucky or just making stuff up to make him look like a liar.
You ALWAYS get a key from the end of your 1st main personal story chain / boss fight. If you claim to have only gotten 1 across 4 toons, then youre simply not doing the storyline. Dont try to make it look as if its a low chance to get one.
I currently have 14 chests in my bank from 3 toons and have only received 5 keys total. The drop ratio became apparent fairly quickly and I think its an early cash shop tactic. However, once the gold starts rolling in at higher levels, they're cheap enough that it shouldnt matter too much. I figure the monthly upkeep of this game cant be cheap, so being subscription free I'm willing to cut them some slack on encouraging a little shopping.
Originally posted by redman875 Originally posted by JimmyYO Why would companies stop making themeparks when everyone keeps buying them purely from hype?
Winning comment here.
GW2 didnt even bother to attempt keeping subs. Just sell boxes and move on. Win.
So im going to assume that all these GW2 defenders and hardcore fans will be rerolling forum names for the next major hype game they fall for then end up being dissapointed by?
I mean this isnt our first rodeo. There was AoC/WAR/AION/SWTOR/GW2...id include Rift, while it was over hyped, and despite claims that its soul system and rifts (DE) would revolutionize the mmo industry turned out to be LOL...i give trion respect for pumping out content like they have. Really a great successor to WOW and king of the wow-parks if your into that type of game anymore.
I give GW2 a good week or two before dissapointed players outnumber the frothing at the mouth fans, no matter how many youtube videos from critics i never heard of and dont care about you post giving this game fantastic reviews, not going to change what this game is. Its a shallow, easy access, casual themepark for people who just like to pvp queue and cant be botherd with progression gear grind or any long term goals. Im not saying its terrible, or its a bad game. Its just focused on one specific type of player.
Anyway...which overhyped game is next thats going to revolutionize the mmo industry by reskinning and reinventing the wow-park? Im betting that absolutely no one learns from this, as has happend with the last 5 or so hype-fails.
Progression gear grind is a long term goal? To me nothing is more boring then everyone having to grind for the same gear because its the only one to have. Not saying its a bad idea, but its focused on one specific type of player. Sound familiar?