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No where in my posts was I saying that GW2 was a classical Trinity, but my point was that there were rolls and that I agree with the poster about these rolls.
See, I was under the assumpition that GW2 was "breaking the mold" of the trinity setup. Obviously, that 'mold' must be made of tissue paper, because it really isn't breaking it to the degree that everyone makes it out to be. As I said before, there are tanks in this game. There are classes that 'can't' fullfill that roll of tank that say a guardian or warrior could. This alone seperates classes into categories. When you have classes with specific 'categories', then you have the start of a trinity system.
Sure, you can complete dungeons with a bit of mayham and some ressurections, but if you throw a tank in there (And there are tanks), then the operation is much smoother. Less running around like chickens with your heads cut off. Doesn't that setup already push for a semi trinity setup? Sure, you lack the healer, but you still push Tank/dps + offheals.
Oh, and this isn't even getting into PvP. Where we can really see the survivability of certain classes because of this setup.
Originally posted by Yamota Originally posted by Eir_S You show me a "tank" in GW2, one who stays in front of dungeon mobs for a lengthy period of time, without switching out to others in the group, and I might agree with you.. and I'm not referring to ranged mobs like the spider boss in Twilight Arbor. It's impossible to take typical tank damage from mobs this way. Part of the definition of a tank is being able to draw aggro to yourself at will, by the way. There is no system for that in GW2. You can call them tanks until your head turns blue, it doesn't make it true.
I dont have such a strict definition of tank as someone who just stands and takes damage. For example, in TERA you had two type of tanks, one was the traditional one and one was an agile one which needed to dodge to avoid attacks or he would die.
So for me a tank is the one that takes the brunt of damage or potential damage, meaning he gets the mobs attention and then avoids their attacks and GW 2 does have an aggro system so it is possible to get the attention of a mob.
However I did say that DPS is the primary role so what we are talking about is to be an of-tank and that is possible in GW 2. However an of-healer is not because, for some reason, team heals in this game are weak and/or on long CD. However aggro you can get by a combination of DPS and CC so you can get it consistently unless someone else take the aggro.
Tera had a traditional trinity, a tank to keep mobs focused away from the others, 3 damage dealers, and a healer to keep everyone alive.
Tera tanks had bonus threat generation to keep bosses steady, taunts to take aggro back but they weren't meatbag tanks because they required active blocking or dodging. Berserker could avoid damage similar to the lancer, slayer could avoid damage similar to the warrior but they lacked the threat generation to be an effective tank for end instances.
Originally posted by Yamota One of GW 2 "features" is that it does not have any trinity system of tanks, healers etc but the problem, from what I have experienced so far, is that it has replaced it with tank, damage, CC but just removed the healer and allowing everyone to have self heals, with long cool down and some classes to have some limited healing. Not sure I see the improvment here. I heard that this is supposedly be replaced by classes which can prevent damage but which class is so good at preventing damage so to not need healing?
Eliminating the trinity emphasizes skill over using the same tried, true, and incredibly freaking tired system all over again. Guardians can buff the party a bit, but the game relies on the skill of the players to get things done instead of the trinity system. That was the point of getting rid of the trinity system.
Originally posted by adam_nox Originally posted by Elikal . I doubt more than a small percentage of MMO players are actually able to manage the complexity of this class system. But that's just my opinion.
not sure if serious...
I'm sure he's serious...not sure if he's right or not ..but in the case of the op he seems to have nailed it on the head
Taken from wikipedia:
"Tanking" occurs when the unit is intended to be the one taking damage (typically by being dangerous or detrimental, or using a game mechanic that forces it to be targeted), and secondly, to ensure that they can survive this damage through sheer health points or mitigation.
The first part simply doesn't exist in GW2. I took my "tank" guardian with "dps" warrior into CM(story) and duoed it all the way. There was NO WAY to make mob stick onto me once it went for warrior no matter what I did. If there's a magic build/skill/rotation to make it possible, enlighten us please, instead insinuating that we are poor players.
The second part fits many turtling builds, especially guardian, who can take quite some beating from melee/ranged mobs. However GW2 tanks are very vulnerable to any condition damage, especially guardian, with his low HP. I guess you can go around this making condition removal builds and rotating similar skills in party.
tl;dr - there are defensive builds in GW2, but there are no tanks.
Originally posted by crazynanny tl;dr - there are defensive builds in GW2, but there are no tanks.
The illusion of tanking exists, and sometimes (such as the examples I gave on the previous page) it's a convincing illusion, some people just fall for it more easily than others.