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All remaining mmos should go B2P now that GW2 is released

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  • ChtugaChtuga OsloPosts: 113Member
    Originally posted by jpnole

    Sub, F2P... it doesn't matter. With GW2 upon us, they will not be able to compete. To sub another mmo besides GW2 would imply   that the other mmo offers more or is somehow superior. This isn't the case. WoW may have more content, and Rift has added quite a bit, but in the end, why pay for another sub if the experience doesn't equal that of GW2?

    As for prior AAAs gone F2P, they could all take a lesson from GW2's cash shop, but even that won't be enough. LOTRO, DDO, Etc, Etc,  they are all way too restrictive. GW2 gives you everything with the cash shop completely unnecessary. Meanwhile, new F2Ps simply don't have the budget to keep up since they lack the box fee.

    Basically, all MMOs should seriously consider dropping their current pricing models and figure out a fair B2P "box price" with a GW2 quality cash shop to compliment it.

     

    First two casualties of GW2:

    City of Heroes     http://www.examiner.com/article/ncsoft-is-shutting-down-city-of-heroes

    Black Prophecy    http://lorehound.com/news/black-prophecy-shutting-down-on-sept-26th/

     

    I will update as the list grows.

    So far according to you, GW2 has "killed" a couple other F2P games...  

    I think the business model is still unclear and if the developer dont make enough money the cash shop will become more and more agressive.

    And I think we need to give GW2 a couple more months to see if its still is as popular.... Looking at X-fire the game seem to drop players like a rock last couple of days... 

  • daltaniousdaltanious waPosts: 2,145Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by jpnole

    Sub, F2P... it doesn't matter. With GW2 upon us, they will not be able to compete. To sub another mmo besides GW2 would imply   that the other mmo offers more or is somehow superior. This isn't the case. WoW may have more content, and Rift has added quite a bit, but in the end, why pay for another sub if the experience doesn't equal that of GW2?

     

    Of course does not equal ... actually it surpasses a looooot. For this reason Gw2 as was Gw will become my filler at some time, in meantime will more then gladly pay sub for Swtor, Rift, Wow, ... and other great games. Gw2 as Gw could never ever existed as sub based game. Being p2p is the only reason. Because a lot people think cheap=good. It is not. Not in gaming industry not in real world.

  • grimalgrimal Stamford, CTPosts: 2,874Member Uncommon

    I never liked the subsciption model.  Why should I have to pay more money just to play a game online?  It got easier to stomach because I got used to it.  But I'd much rather just pay a one-time purchase fee.

    F2P, in my opinion comes with too many caveats.  I'd rather avoid that stuff and just buy the box price.  If you want to offer an online shop too, fine.  Just don't unbalance the game or infringe on my experience because of it.

  • DarkmothDarkmoth Pittsburgh, PAPosts: 174Member
    Originally posted by Connmacart
    Originally posted by Darkmoth
    Here's another alternative for you:

    GW2 should offer a subscription option.

    Seriously. Let me pay $15 bucks a month for GW2. In return, I get 2500 gems each  month, extra bank slots and character slots, and a couple of unlocked Black Lion Chests per month. I'd pay for that in a hot second, and I'm not the only one.

    So basically you want $50 worth of goods for only $15. Yeah I'm sure Anet will go for that.

    Come on, hoss, work with me here.

    What are the chances I'm going to buy $50 worth of gems every month? Pretty much zero. But my sub is guaranteed cash:

    Expected value of sub = $15 x 100% = $15

    Expected value of spending 50 bucks = 50 x <some very low number> = <much less than $15>

    Obviously they'd want to tweak the value some, but they'd have to offer more than $15 in goods to make the sub worthwhile.

    Basic business.

  • DarkmothDarkmoth Pittsburgh, PAPosts: 174Member
    (double post)
  • ReizlaReizla AlkmaarPosts: 3,301Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by jpnole

    First two casualties of GW2:

    City of Heroes     http://www.examiner.com/article/ncsoft-is-shutting-down-city-of-heroes

    Not a casualty of GW2, but one of the yet to be released WildStar. It's like Tabula Rasa, that was announced to be closed one year before the Aion release. Looks like NCWest will only keep 100% NCSoft (subsidiary) developed games in their stable. And since CoH originated from Cryptic (and TR from Divinity Games) which is not an 'original' NCWest subsidiary, it has to go.

    Sad though that for this reason alone a good running game is shut down. I do remember seeing some official numbers here on how good CoH did since it went F2P.

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  • JimmydeanJimmydean Ypsilanti, MIPosts: 1,270Member

    I'd much rather pay $15 / mo for a game like Rift where the developers have a clue what they are doing, constant game updates, and excellent account/customer support. Arena net skimped on all of the above and STILL have a very constricting cash shop.  30 shared bank slots? really?

  • KyleranKyleran Tampa, FLPosts: 20,008Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Darkmoth
    Originally posted by Connmacart
    Originally posted by Darkmoth
    Here's another alternative for you:

    GW2 should offer a subscription option.

    Seriously. Let me pay $15 bucks a month for GW2. In return, I get 2500 gems each  month, extra bank slots and character slots, and a couple of unlocked Black Lion Chests per month. I'd pay for that in a hot second, and I'm not the only one.

    So basically you want $50 worth of goods for only $15. Yeah I'm sure Anet will go for that.

    Come on, hoss, work with me here.

    What are the chances I'm going to buy $50 worth of gems every month? Pretty much zero. But my sub is guaranteed cash:

    Expected value of sub = $15 x 100% = $15

    Expected value of spending 50 bucks = 50 x =

    Obviously they'd want to tweak the value some, but they'd have to offer more than $15 in goods to make the sub worthwhile.

    Basic business.

    Made me smile.

    It is a strange phenomenon of these forums, but people take things far too literal, and totally fail to see the secondary meaning behind the words that are written.

    I blame the lack for formal reading in schools or something, just amazing how the concept you were trying to impart was missed by so many.

    I agree, I could actually be encouraged to pay a sub for GW2 if it gave me some sort of benefits to do so.  Of course, don't know if there's anything in the cash shop I want, put in an option for an "automatic I win button" which can be used once a day to kill a player of my choosing (even if they are on my server) and I'm signing up right now.   image

    In my day MMORPG's were so hard we fought our way through dungeons in the snow, uphill both ways.
    "I don't have one life, I have many lives" - Grunty
    Still currently "subscribed" to EVE, and only EVE!!!
    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  • Carl132pCarl132p Columbus, INPosts: 535Member Uncommon
    The industry doesn't give a fuck about guild wars 2 and the rest of us are watching the "I am sick of this game already" posts flood in. 
  • SukiyakiSukiyaki GreenwichPosts: 1,398Member Uncommon

    We should act like WoW fanbois and tribute every other game closing down or merging from now on as proof that GW2 is superior even if its completely unrelated and make a stretch to call its features like its B2P paymentmodel supior too.

    Add Ryzom, TERA to the list.

     

    Games GW2 already killed in just 2 weeks and proofs its superior model and superior gameplay:

    Ryzom - server merge announced

    TERA - server merge announced

    WoW - server consolidation system called "cross realm zones" released

    COH - closing

    Black Prophecy - closing

     

     

  • alexminoalexmino davenport, IAPosts: 132Member

    Wow has what, about 8 million more people playing it when GW2 does, in it's first month when more people are playing it then every will, and they should drop the sub?

    That's called stupid business plan.

  • Eir_SEir_S Argyle, NYPosts: 4,623Member
    Originally posted by bcbully

    Nah give me a sub.

    I don't like a company tugging at my wallet all day.

    You just described a sub.

  • roo67roo67 londonPosts: 402Member

    It often amazes me how dogmatic many mmo players are . Several years ago I brought up the subject of subscription fees in various forums on various sites saying that many mmos should offer an extended trial with optional micro transactions and a optional subcription fee or reduced subscriptions . I was shouted down by idiots saying they would pay 30-40-50 dollars a month for a sub if the game was decent .

    It was obvious to anyone with common sence ( sadly lacking in most gamers ) that in such a market things had to change .

    What I predict now is in the next five years we will see many more buy to play games . It will slowly become the industry standard model and within ten years we will see very few new subscription based models that have to chance to freemium as they fail.

    The likes of the Elder Scrolls Online would do well to look at Buy to Play with optional cosmetic cash shops , downloadable contnent packs and expansion packs . If they dont such games will crash and burn . Much in the ways ToR did and TSW and Terra are likly to do .

    Not even WoW can survive such a buy to play revolution and Blizzard should it happen would have to change its payment model ultimatly .

    Sounds a bit far fetched to many of you I bet but common sence and mmo gamers often doesn't go together . Buy to plays the future and you may argue all that you like but you will ultimatly be proven wrong .

     

  • NadiaNadia Canonsburg, PAPosts: 11,866Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Sukiyaki

    We should act like WoW fanbois and tribute every other game closing down or merging from now on as proof that GW2 is superior even if its completely unrelated and make a stretch to call its features like its B2P paymentmodel supior too.

    Add Ryzom, TERA to the list.

    in the words of Fansy, the bard http://www.notacult.com/fansythefamous.htm

    go go good team!

  • SovrathSovrath Boston Area, MAPosts: 18,462Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by jpnole

     

    First two casualties of GW2:

    City of Heroes     http://www.examiner.com/article/ncsoft-is-shutting-down-city-of-heroes

    Black Prophecy    http://lorehound.com/news/black-prophecy-shutting-down-on-sept-26th/

     

    I will update as the list grows.

    wow.

    Just wow.

    two games that are different from GW2, different themes, different subjects and you think that the recent release of GW2 made them immediately close?

    Let's see how GW2 actually does over the year before we start saying that its very existence forces different games to cease to exist.

  • WickedjellyWickedjelly Yahoo, COPosts: 4,990Member

    Ah jp, any chance you and bcbully are related? Warring twins perhaps?

    I would love if they all went B2P but I don't think they need to.

    ...and talk about a stretch with saying those games closed because of GW2.

    1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.

    2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.

    3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.

  • roo67roo67 londonPosts: 402Member
    Originally posted by Jimmydean

    I'd much rather pay $15 / mo for a game like Rift where the developers have a clue what they are doing, constant game updates, and excellent account/customer support. Arena net skimped on all of the above and STILL have a very constricting cash shop.  30 shared bank slots? really?

    Not many like Rift though or EVE . If Blizzard plowed the same sort of share of thier profits into WoW as those games do . Imagine what sort of game WoW could have been . Instead we have a cash cow increasingly being aimed at children with poor patches and expansions .

  • monster8memonster8me forest city, NCPosts: 25Member
    id love to boot up my ff11 collection again but with my life being so busy right now gw2 b2p model is where its at i dont pay a sub so i dont feel like im wasting a few dollars when i am unable to play for a few days at a time
  • daltaniousdaltanious waPosts: 2,145Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by grimal

    I never liked the subsciption model.  Why should I have to pay more money just to play a game online?  It got easier to stomach because I got used to it.  But I'd much rather just pay a one-time purchase fee.

    F2P, in my opinion comes with too many caveats.  I'd rather avoid that stuff and just buy the box price.  If you want to offer an online shop too, fine.  Just don't unbalance the game or infringe on my experience because of it.

    Maybe because hardware and staff to maintain so many servers that gives stable endgame cost? Maybe because support cost? Usually is virtually unexistant with nonsub games. Maybe because I know from sub staff is constantly working on game, changing experience, improving, ... 

  • SovrathSovrath Boston Area, MAPosts: 18,462Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by roo67

     I was shouted down by idiots saying they would pay 30-40-50 dollars a month for a sub if the game was decent .

    It was obvious to anyone with common sence ( sadly lacking in most gamers ) that in such a market things had to change .

    I think you need to take it back a step. Your initial proposition doesn't discredit their willingness to pay 30, 40, 50 or more dollars per month.

    I sitll would pay that much per month if it was "worth it".

    If there is a buy to play or even f2p game where the initial "buy in" was 2.00 USD or even "completely free" such as Aion's model and I didn't like the game then "nothing I paid would be worth it". And if it was completely free then I would offer that my time would not be worth it if I didn't like the game.

    The only common sense here is that companies need to find ways to make money and the subsription method doesn't work unless they increase that subscription. But since developers can't put content out fast enough for theme park games players start wondering "what am I paying for". If they are wondering that at $15 then they will really wonder that at $20 or $30.

    It's much easier for a b2p or f2p because you know exactly what you are paying for. It's more tangible. Oh yes I'm buyting that expansion, oh yes I'm buying that cosmetic outfit.

    It becomes less about "oh yes I've paid another $15 for this month like I paid the last few months but I don't see anything new added. I just see that I still have access.

    I like the b2p offering much better than f2p because it raises the bar on who gets in (if you are going to pay to get in then you are going to be a little more serious about why you are there) it allows developers to get back a good amount (or some amount) of their investment and it gives them incentive to conintualy offer content.

    What I dont like about this model (or f2p) is that their hands are constnatly out for money. "This week look at this special/today only double the points!/buy x amount of points and get 50% more!" etc.

     

     

  • MisarisMisaris Cougartown, NEPosts: 140Member

    Does not compute.

    So you mean every other game needs to rip people of by selling necessary items in a cash shop and "pretend" Buy to Play?

    LOL, sorry but good games still deserve my sub money because I´m getting new content and updates for my monthly sub.

    (At least in EvE and TSW)

    Btw, I have a sub for EvE and I got the liftetime sub for TSW; this is REAL Buy to Play because there is nothing in the cash shop anyone really "needs".

     

     

  • BadaboomBadaboom Moose Jaw, SKPosts: 2,380Member
    Originally posted by Misaris

    Does not compute.

    So you mean every other game needs to rip people of by selling necessary items in a cash shop and "pretend" Buy to Play?

    LOL, sorry but good games still deserve my sub money because I´m getting new content and updates for my monthly sub.

    (At least in EvE and TSW)

    Btw, I have a sub for EvE and I got the liftetime sub for TSW; this is REAL Buy to Play because there is nothing in the cash shop anyone really "needs".

     

     

    I haven't felt the need to buy anything.  The GW2 cash shop model is a good one. 

  • MisarisMisaris Cougartown, NEPosts: 140Member
    Originally posted by jpnole

     

    First two casualties of GW2:

    City of Heroes     http://www.examiner.com/article/ncsoft-is-shutting-down-city-of-heroes

    Black Prophecy    http://lorehound.com/news/black-prophecy-shutting-down-on-sept-26th/

     

    I will update as the list grows.

     

    LOL. Sure, everyone stopped playing Sci-Fi multiplayer space combat, to pick up a sword and kill minotaurs in GW2.

    Sure.. lol

    Dark Prophecy ran out of money, that happens if you don´t have a hype machine and marketing budget behind your back

  • WickedjellyWickedjelly Yahoo, COPosts: 4,990Member
    Originally posted by Badaboom

    I haven't felt the need to buy anything.  The GW2 cash shop model is a good one. 

     Yeah, haven't bought a thing. Nor do I plan on it any time soon if ever. Their model works fine for me XD

    If I did for something like a character slot by the time I get to that point would probably just use gold to get gems.

    1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.

    2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.

    3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.

  • MisarisMisaris Cougartown, NEPosts: 140Member
    Originally posted by Badaboom
    Originally posted by Misaris

    Does not compute.

    So you mean every other game needs to rip people of by selling necessary items in a cash shop and "pretend" Buy to Play?

    LOL, sorry but good games still deserve my sub money because I´m getting new content and updates for my monthly sub.

    (At least in EvE and TSW)

    Btw, I have a sub for EvE and I got the liftetime sub for TSW; this is REAL Buy to Play because there is nothing in the cash shop anyone really "needs".

     

     

    I haven't felt the need to buy anything.  The GW2 cash shop model is a good one. 

    Uh-huh. Then if no one is buying stuff of their cash shop, I wonder how they will finance update work without laying off 2/3 of their staff within the next month.

    NCsoft sold less GW2 copies than Bioware sold SWTOR copies, and since there is ZERO subscription money flowing in @NCsoft, it´s like if Bioware had lost all their subscribers after the 1st free month which was included with SWTOR.

    I´m really wondering how that is going to work. At some point they will try to get more money, most likely with a paid expansion for another 50 bucks in 3-4 months.

     

     

     

     

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