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So what happened to having fun?

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  • WickedjellyWickedjelly Yahoo, COPosts: 4,990Member
    Originally posted by Stx11
    Originally posted by Wickedjelly

     Not really. Don't see how that insults anyone considering that is what was said. Not like I'm putting words in his mouth.

    You're right. It's my fault for applying "history" to this - you certainly have your share of "attack dog" posts here /wink

     No doubt

    Just never as to what they find fun :P

    I'll be the first to admit I can go into that mode pending on the subject or issue being discussed. Although to be fair some have been misconstrued that way when I'm simply being blunt. I post like I talk and where I'm from that is how we debate and dicuss things. There are times someone thinks I'm angry with them or flipping out when in reality this couldn't be further from the truth. Rarely happens to me in real life but seems on forums things get misconstrued at times.

    1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.

    2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.

    3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.

  • AerowynAerowyn BUZZARDS BAY, MAPosts: 7,928Member
    Originally posted by Wickedjelly
    Originally posted by Aerowyn

     

    odd and i agree it can be subjective but as I unlock more traits and open more utility skills and get better equipment I definitely am feeling more powerful as I level.

     Yeah it is there for me was well. Oddly enough I notice or shoudl say feel it more in WvW than anywhere else. I can take out people a lot quicker now on my ele since he's in the seventies with appropriate gear than in the the thirties. Gear certainly makes a difference in this game as does the trait enhancements.

    very much agreed.. i find the balance pretty good in regards to downscaling in PVE or upscaling for WvW... i feel more powerful but not to the extent where I go around 1 shotting mobs and/or players

    I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  • I'm thinking most MMORPGs attempt to make the players "have fun" while "progressing their character." I don't see an inherent problem with GW2 trying to have less of the latter part. The problem with that is that it becomes super important that the game is very fun. And Guild Wars 2 just isn't, at its core, an enjoyable game. Combat and camera controls feel sluggish, the character animations are awkward and bashing enemies just doesn't feel satisfying.

    A game doesn't become fun simply as a result of cutting away progression content. WoW seems to be one of the few MMOs that manage to pull of a really fun basic gameplay experience. You could strip away all gear progression from that game and it'd still by lots more fun than GW2.

    (no I'm not subbed to WoW or any other MMO at the moment)

  • Stx11Stx11 West Hills, CAPosts: 415Member
    Originally posted by Wickedjelly
    Originally posted by Stx11
    Originally posted by Wickedjelly

     Not really. Don't see how that insults anyone considering that is what was said. Not like I'm putting words in his mouth.

    You're right. It's my fault for applying "history" to this - you certainly have your share of "attack dog" posts here /wink

     No doubt

    Just never as to what they find fun :P

    I'll be the first to admit I can go into that mode pending on the subject or issue being discussed. Although to be fair some have been misconstrued that way when I'm simply being blunt. I post like I talk and where I'm from that is how we debate and dicuss things. There are times someone thinks I'm angry with them or flipping out when in reality this couldn't be further from the truth. Rarely happens to me in real life but seems on forums things get misconstrued at times.

    Yeah "lack of tone/nuance" has bitten me in the butt on forums posts too. Anybody who disagrees with the saying "it's not what you say, it's how you say it" has never been a regular contributer to a forum community!

    Back to OP - I think the mods decided this is a "fantastic discussion topic" and in some sense it is - GW2 is definitely a game truly designed for a different style of play - but it kinda sucks that a post that makes perfect sense in the GW2 Forums can become a full-on "Flame" topic in the Pub.

  • AmjocoAmjoco Layton, UTPosts: 4,777Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Axxar

    I'm thinking most MMORPGs attempt to make the players "have fun" while "progressing their character." I don't see an inherent problem with GW2 trying to have less of the latter part. The problem with that is that it becomes super important that the game is very fun. And Guild Wars 2 just isn't, at its core, an enjoyable game. Combat and camera controls feel sluggish, the character animations are awkward and bashing enemies just doesn't feel satisfying.

    A game doesn't become fun simply as a result of cutting away progression content. WoW seems to be one of the few MMOs that manage to pull of a really fun basic gameplay experience. You could strip away all gear progression from that game and it'd still by lots more fun than GW2.

    (no I'm not subbed to WoW or any other MMO at the moment)

    Funny, I find the complete opposite of your claims. I guess about another 400,000 people feel the same way. Satifies the hell out of us! /shrug

    Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.

  • Stx11Stx11 West Hills, CAPosts: 415Member
    Originally posted by Axxar

    I'm thinking most MMORPGs attempt to make the players "have fun" while "progressing their character." I don't see an inherent problem with GW2 trying to have less of the latter part. The problem with that is that it becomes super important that the game is very fun. And Guild Wars 2 just isn't, at its core, an enjoyable game. Combat and camera controls feel sluggish, the character animations are awkward and bashing enemies just doesn't feel satisfying.

    A game doesn't become fun simply as a result of cutting away progression content. WoW seems to be one of the few MMOs that manage to pull of a really fun basic gameplay experience. You could strip away all gear progression from that game and it'd still by lots more fun than GW2.

    (no I'm not subbed to WoW or any other MMO at the moment)

    And the amazingly funny thing about opinions and feelings is we can all have different ones!

    I literally fall asleep when trying to play a "WoW-Style" game now yet can't get enough of "GW2-Style" play.

    To each their own!

  • WickedjellyWickedjelly Yahoo, COPosts: 4,990Member
    Originally posted by Aerowyn

    very much agreed.. i find the balance pretty good in regards to downscaling in PVE or upscaling for WvW... i feel more powerful but not to the extent where I go around 1 shotting mobs and/or players

     Yeah, it seems appropriate. I don't one shot either but it is amusing to see folks now if they don't bother running out of my aoes. Doesn't take much to take them out anymore. Seems some have been lazy about that becuase they're used to many being low level.

    Kind of amazing how much healing you can pull off too if you have the traits and gear stacked for it at the high end.

    1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.

    2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.

    3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.

  • WickedjellyWickedjelly Yahoo, COPosts: 4,990Member
    Originally posted by Amjoco

    Funny, I find the complete opposite of your claims. I guess about another 400,000 people feel the same way. Satifies the hell out of us! /shrug

     I agree with his camera comment. It just doesn't cause me problems for the most part so I ignore it.

    However, it is annoying as fuck far as I'm concerned at times in underwater combat. That would be an area that I find it aggravating at times if it is a battle involving a lot of movement all over the area.

    1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.

    2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.

    3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.

  • Stx11Stx11 West Hills, CAPosts: 415Member
    Originally posted by Wickedjelly
    Originally posted by Aerowyn

    very much agreed.. i find the balance pretty good in regards to downscaling in PVE or upscaling for WvW... i feel more powerful but not to the extent where I go around 1 shotting mobs and/or players

     Yeah, it seems appropriate. I don't one shot either but it is amusing to see folks now if they don't bother running out of my aoes. Doesn't take much to take them out anymore. Seems some have been lazy about that becuase they're used to many being low level.

    Kind of amazing how much healing you can pull off too if you have the traits and gear stacked for it at the high end.

    And don't forget Combo Synergies - last night I was defending a Keep from on top of the walls and the attackers were raining down heavy fire on our position. An Ele popped a Water Field (Healing Rain? Healing Mist?) and I stepped in, switched to Sword/Axe and popped Whirling Axe - healed the whole group of us back up to full!

    I love this game!

  • AerowynAerowyn BUZZARDS BAY, MAPosts: 7,928Member
    Originally posted by Stx11
    Originally posted by Wickedjelly
    Originally posted by Aerowyn

    very much agreed.. i find the balance pretty good in regards to downscaling in PVE or upscaling for WvW... i feel more powerful but not to the extent where I go around 1 shotting mobs and/or players

     Yeah, it seems appropriate. I don't one shot either but it is amusing to see folks now if they don't bother running out of my aoes. Doesn't take much to take them out anymore. Seems some have been lazy about that becuase they're used to many being low level.

    Kind of amazing how much healing you can pull off too if you have the traits and gear stacked for it at the high end.

    And don't forget Combo Synergies - last night I was defending a Keep from on top of the walls and the attackers were raining down heavy fire on our position. An Ele popped a Water Field (Healing Rain? Healing Mist?) and I stepped in, switched to Sword/Axe and popped Whirling Axe - healed the whole group of us back up to full!

    I love this game!

    yea using combo fields can really turn the tide of battle when used right:)

    I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  • MMOwandererMMOwanderer LisbonPosts: 415Member
    Originally posted by Aerowyn
    Originally posted by MMOwanderer
    Originally posted by Aerowyn
    Originally posted by MMOwanderer
    Originally posted by GamerUntouch

    odd and i agree it can be subjective but as I unlock more traits and open more utility skills and get better equipment I definitely am feeling more powerful as I level.

    I believe you, but like i said, i would have to play the full game to find out. I think it might be because you get most weapon skills very early.

    Regardless, since the topic as been moved to General, i guess it's now mostly about having fun in general mmorpgs, so i'll try to not derail the thread.

  • Raphiel75Raphiel75 Ocala, FLPosts: 16Member

    I guess ppl dont rly like change in their mmos, its quite clear that ppl define "Progression" as being able to kill easy monsters/content quickly and start fighting harder monsters/content later game. How do u do that? with higher stats/attk/def and etc. whats the most common way to do this? GEAR!

    gw2 completely changed that and now ppl find this change quite challenging to cope with. Most progression is how u build ur character and what skills your using with ur combos and tactics, o and also lvls of course. There is a talent system but its not as what ppl think it is. its not like wow which a certain move gains mass power or op abilities, its just an improvement to skills or buffs when using skills and weps. Its not a powerhouse improvement like wow does but it does make a difference IN THIS GAME!

    i guess the jis of it is that change is hard for ppl, if they dont like the game they dont play it or they start criticising it because their confused or fustrated with the change and how it turns out to be. The game is designed to use teamwork, skills and combos to truely advance in the game. The old days of runnin up to it and bash its brains in, is a very bad tactic in this game compared to others of old. You no longer have the mass stats u use to have in old games so u die easily, but thats where your combos, skills, and weapon swaping comes into play and now u can take out those powerful monsters and bosses. And now you have to rely on other ppl you dont know to advance in the zone faster because of dynamic events, usually ppl just stay with who they know or are in their circle (other then their guilds).

    So now your playing a game that ur not use to, cant understand the battle machanics and cant see the point of this game, do you think you will have fun now?

  • Stx11Stx11 West Hills, CAPosts: 415Member
    Originally posted by MMOwanderer
    Originally posted by Aerowyn

    odd and i agree it can be subjective but as I unlock more traits and open more utility skills and get better equipment I definitely am feeling more powerful as I level.

    I believe you, but like i said, i would have to play the full game to find out. I think it might be because you get most weapon skills very early.

    Regardless, since the topic as been moved to General, i guess it's now mostly about having fun in general mmorpgs, so i'll try to not derail the thread.

    One final reply - The Traits that you get and develop 20-80 can noticeably modify your Abilities (including Weapon Abilities) and how they work. For example Warriors can Trait so that their Melee Block abilities also reflect Missiles, or that their Dodge will damage nearby Enemies (actually got a killing blow Dodging last night). It's subtle, but it is there.

    Back to OP: In some ways I feel this game is somewhat of a "spiritual successor" to original EQ in that one of the "goals" is to just go places, see things, and explore.

    I feel like I got TF2, BF2, and an MMO all in one box (and I guess even Madden NFL with Keg Ball - love me some Keg Ball!)

  • KyleranKyleran Tampa, FLPosts: 19,977Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by MikeJezZ
    Hm. Why did my thread regarding gw2 get into public pub?

    I dunno, I tried to get it locked down for trolling but I guess they thought this what should be done. image

    Might help to not bash the preferred play style of other gamers for the 1st half of your OP before even mentioning GW2 at all.

    Oh well, works for me, I no longer post in GW2 threads ( a self imposed exile) so this at least affords me an opportunity to respond.

    I've never really found the game mechanics of MMORPG's to be particularly "fun".  Mildly entertaining at best, a crushing borefest at worst, but actually playing the game really brings no enjoyment to me.

    What do I like?  Progression.  Steady, regular, meaningful and here's the most important part, endless progression.

    Cosmetic progression is meaningless to me, I always said I would outfit my avatar in a diaper and fairy wings if they gave the best stats in terms of power.  I wasn't kidding.

    This doesn't mean that I favor gear grinding at all.  While gear can be part of the equation, I prefer how DAOC had it back in the day, with subtle advances in gear (which was managed by level caps in relavent stats) and the nearly endless progression of realm abilities and skills once you reached 50.

    I didn't run those hundreds of hours of frontier pvp because I really liked it all that much, but I sure liked seeing the realm points rack up after each fight as I plotted about what great new ability I was working toward such as crowd control breakers and the like.

    I also farmed gold in Darkness falls for the same reason (after of coruse, helping my realm take control of Darkness Falls) so I could afford to pay for expensive, but well worth it crafted gear which helped flesh out my build for even more PVP.

    GW2 is totally missing this element at end game, and for this reason, I don't see any reason to play it, regardless how much fun it might be during the (reportedly short) leveling period.

    We all play MMO's for different reasons, me, I play for the steady aqcuisition of power and territory control (another element GW lacks) which is probably why I recently returned for another go at EVE.

    But play for "fun?"  Please, I'm too busy building up my empire here to have fun. image

     

    In my day MMORPG's were so hard we fought our way through dungeons in the snow, uphill both ways.
    "I don't have one life, I have many lives" - Grunty
    Still currently "subscribed" to EVE, and only EVE!!!
    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  • NikkitaNikkita ParisPosts: 790Member

    I am surprised that someone would be obnoxious enough to define what is 'FUN' for others and also manage to insult them in process and even more susrprising is that this topic is 7 pages long with people mostly trying to tell others how to have 'fun'.

    *shakes head*

    image


    Bite Me

  • WickedjellyWickedjelly Yahoo, COPosts: 4,990Member
    Originally posted by Nikkita

    I am surprised that someone would be obnoxious enough to define what is 'FUN' for others and also manage to insult them in process and even more susrprising is that this topic is 7 pages long with people mostly trying to tell others how to have 'fun'.

    *shakes head*

     What the hell do you want from me? I'm bored at work :P

    Got to do something to pass the time. Fuck actually working.

    1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.

    2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.

    3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.

  • CcDohlCcDohl Atlanta, GAPosts: 65Member
    SWtOR was fun because I could make a fat smuggler and have him roll his fat butt all over the place. Yes, I am a man of simple tastes.
  • NikkitaNikkita ParisPosts: 790Member
    Originally posted by Wickedjelly
    Originally posted by Nikkita

    I am surprised that someone would be obnoxious enough to define what is 'FUN' for others and also manage to insult them in process and even more susrprising is that this topic is 7 pages long with people mostly trying to tell others how to have 'fun'.

    *shakes head*

     What the hell do you want from me? I'm bored at work :P

    Got to do something to pass the time. Fuck actually working.

    I am mostly referring to OP. It is because of post like these GW2 gets un warranted hate.

    Its not Anet and surely it is not GW2's fault but it is the obnoxious fans who get on nerves of MMO players in general who in turn try to get under their skin.

    image


    Bite Me

  • DarkmothDarkmoth Pittsburgh, PAPosts: 174Member
    Originally posted by MikeJezZ
    So what happened to play for fun? 

     

    I'm 26 years old. I grew up with the gaming which seriously started with commodore 64. I played numerous games, both sp and mp. The old syndicate, alone in the dark, doom, dungeon keeper, quake, unreal + ut and so on. 

     

    Notice what all these games share?

    -that the only carrot is "having fun". 

    Doom? Quake? Are you kidding me?

    Where's Balder's Gate, Icewind Dale, Planescape Torment, Pool of Radiance...you know, the actual RPG games? You didn't even include Diablo (!), a genre-defining game if there ever was one. This post explains a lot about why people think RPG character progression is some sort of secret Blizzard plot.

    I'm surprised you didn't just say "because TETRIS".

  • WickedjellyWickedjelly Yahoo, COPosts: 4,990Member
    Originally posted by Darkmoth

    Doom? Quake? Are you kidding me?

    Where's Balder's Gate, Icewind Dale, Planescape Torment, Pool of Radiance...you know, the actual RPG games? You didn't even include Diablo (!), a genre-defining game if there ever was one. This post explains a lot about why people think RPG character progression is some sort of secret Blizzard plot.

    I'm surprised you didn't just say "because TETRIS".

     Think it is an age thing. Not saying one is better than the other but far as games you relate to I think that has a lot to do with it. By the way, great list of games. Definitely agree with those selections.

    1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.

    2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.

    3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.

  • WickedjellyWickedjelly Yahoo, COPosts: 4,990Member
    Originally posted by Nikkita

    I am mostly referring to OP. It is because of post like these GW2 gets un warranted hate.

    Its not Anet and surely it is not GW2's fault but it is the obnoxious fans who get on nerves of MMO players in general who in turn try to get under their skin.

     I can see the debate he's trying to bring up. I think it is one worth having actually.

    The problem is when you use lines like "brain dead zealots" to refer to those that enjoy one style of play it kind of throws out a lot of rational objectivity many are going to want to bring to the topic. Which is a shame and yes I agree is why some jump to the conclusions they do.

    1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.

    2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.

    3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.

  • dave6660dave6660 New York, NYPosts: 2,543Member Uncommon
    Yay another GW2 thread!  I haven't seen one of those in a while.

    “There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own.”
    -- Herman Melville

  • WickedjellyWickedjelly Yahoo, COPosts: 4,990Member
    Originally posted by dave6660
    Yay another GW2 thread!  I haven't seen one of those in a while.

     In all fairness to the OP he did post it in the GW2 boards and it was moved here.

    1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.

    2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.

    3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.

  • JimmyYOJimmyYO Columbus, OHPosts: 520Member
    The thing is I can have fun busting out my SNES and playing Secret of Mana over and over. Most, including me, need more then just fun out of MMO's. That includes things like, character progression, purpose, community, at least some challenge, etc.
  • DarkmothDarkmoth Pittsburgh, PAPosts: 174Member
    Originally posted by Wickedjelly
    Originally posted by Darkmoth

    Doom? Quake? Are you kidding me?

    Where's Balder's Gate, Icewind Dale, Planescape Torment, Pool of Radiance...you know, the actual RPG games? You didn't even include Diablo (!), a genre-defining game if there ever was one. This post explains a lot about why people think RPG character progression is some sort of secret Blizzard plot.

    I'm surprised you didn't just say "because TETRIS".

     Think it is an age thing. Not saying one is better than the other but far as games you relate to I think that has a lot to do with it. By the way, great list of games. Definitely agree with those selections.

    You're definitely right, one isn't better than another. For example, I think UT2004 is one of the best games ever...I still play it now and again.

    It's just that I'd expect Quake to come up in a discussion about MW3 or Battlefield. It's dismaying to see someone use that as a model for RPG play.

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