"It gets better later on?" hmm

wrightstuf · September 2012

Please dont tell me GW2 is another one of those games..."It gets better later on"

I've heard that about other MMOs, and in every case, if it sucked to start, it sucked. Why on earth would devs not strive to make their game very compelling in the beginning? They want to retain players, not drive them away.

From my own experience, i cant say one way or the other. My highest character is 20. The above statement can only realistically be made by high level characters who have played thru it. I find myself playing TSW most of the time, as GW2 just hasnt done it for me that much so far. I guess eventually i'll get a higher level, but certainly not any time soon. Then i can see for myself.

Dunno, I guess i'm just a "what you see is what you get" kinda person.

Loke666 · September 2012

Well, you dont start on the dungeons and get more options later, but if you didnt like the game after you left the noob zone you wont like it at 80 either.

I have enjoyed it from the first minute myself, but as I see if, if you tried PvP and PvE and left the noob zone and still dont like it for any other reason than difficulty (which will increase) you might as well find something else toplay.

vee41 · September 2012

At level 20 most of the basic things are there. Events get bigger and more meaningfull, story starts to go epic etc but all the game basics are there at level 20.

wrightstuf · September 2012

Originally posted by Loke666
Well, you dont start on the dungeons and get more options later, but if you didnt like the game after you left the noob zone you wont like it at 80 either.

I have enjoyed it from the first minute myself, but as I see if, if you tried PvP and PvE and left the noob zone and still dont like it for any other reason than difficulty (which will increase) you might as well find something else toplay.

That makes good sense. yes, i def wil stick with it until i can experience most of what you say. It wouldnt be a fair assessment otherwise.

cybersurfr · September 2012

Considering you can WvWvW and do sPVP from the get-go, you can freely judge that already. No comment if you're talking about PVE.

Loke666 · September 2012

Originally posted by wrightstuf
That makes good sense. yes, i def wil stick with it until i can experience most of what you say. It wouldnt be a fair assessment otherwise.

A tip is that the key to having fun in PvE is exploration and the key to combat is constant movement and time your skills.

Also trying a different class might help, they are often rather different. I prefer thief myself since it is rather fast and a bit twitched based.

Gaia_Hunter · September 2012

Originally posted by wrightstuf
Originally posted by Loke666
Well, you dont start on the dungeons and get more options later, but if you didnt like the game after you left the noob zone you wont like it at 80 either.

I have enjoyed it from the first minute myself, but as I see if, if you tried PvP and PvE and left the noob zone and still dont like it for any other reason than difficulty (which will increase) you might as well find something else toplay.

That makes good sense. yes, i def wil stick with it until i can experience most of what you say. It wouldnt be a fair assessment otherwise.

Ai also improves (not just stats wise, but witth skills and dodging) as you go on, so it will offer a somewhat harder challenge.

Raekon · September 2012

I would suggest you the following things:

- try your personal story (in case you didn't)

- try sPvP out

- try WvsWvsW (it is pvp with pve elements,monsters, charmable pets (if you are a ranger and are looking for a wolf) and dynamic events in it additionaly

- try out the ascalon catacombs story mode at level 30

- try to finish exploring a whole area to get the achievement and rewards

- explore and check for hidden areas and bonuses

- after you are done with a dynamic event (don't mean the hearts even they are having chains too), don't leave immediately but check on what the npc does and what happens next (you might be surprised and end up fighting a big boss or have to stop waves of enemies)

- don't compare TSWs classical (linear) quest approach to the free choice approach of GW2 cause they are very different in their contents (I know cause I was in the betas of TSW).

- try out your class with different weapons, it might be more fun for you with a other skillset or try a completely different class since they all play differently

- try out gathering materials and crafting in case you like such parts in a game

That might help you enjoy the game more.

If not you can always switch totally to TSW

Krosslite · September 2012

Originally posted by wrightstuf

Please dont tell me GW2 is another one of those games..."It gets better later on"I've heard that about other MMOs, and in every case, if it sucked to start, it sucked. Why on earth would devs not strive to make their game very compelling in the beginning? They want to retain players, not drive them away.From my own experience, i cant say one way or the other. My highest character is 20. The above statement can only realistically be made by high level characters who have played thru it. I find myself playing TSW most of the time, as GW2 just hasnt done it for me that much so far. I guess eventually i'll get a higher level, but certainly not any time soon. Then i can see for myself.Dunno, I guess i'm just a "what you see is what you get" kinda person.

And there is nothing wrong with that. My highest is 17 and in no rush but I like it all so far

Tardcore · September 2012

Originally posted by wrightstuf
Please dont tell me GW2 is another one of those games..."It gets better later on"

I've heard that about other MMOs, and in every case, if it sucked to start, it sucked. Why on earth would devs not strive to make their game very compelling in the beginning? They want to retain players, not drive them away.

From my own experience, i cant say one way or the other. My highest character is 20. The above statement can only realistically be made by high level characters who have played thru it. I find myself playing TSW most of the time, as GW2 just hasnt done it for me that much so far. I guess eventually i'll get a higher level, but certainly not any time soon. Then i can see for myself.

Dunno, I guess i'm just a "what you see is what you get" kinda person.

Well hate to tell you this but GW2 falls into the same trap as just about every MMO. While people like to go on and on about the so called "Horizontal progression", the fact of the matter is, is that the higher you level the better gear you get, which does make a difference reguardless of what some of the more rabid game fans would like to believe. More importantly the higher you level the more ability slots and trait points you unlock. Which means for example the warrior I play on my friends account (which may as well be my account as the insane WvW queues has made my friend abandon the game for now) who is now 27th, feels light years more powerful than he did at even 20th. So I'd say that yes the game does get better later on, mainly due to character progression.

Distaste · September 2012

Originally posted by wrightstuf
Please dont tell me GW2 is another one of those games..."It gets better later on"

I've heard that about other MMOs, and in every case, if it sucked to start, it sucked. Why on earth would devs not strive to make their game very compelling in the beginning? They want to retain players, not drive them away.

From my own experience, i cant say one way or the other. My highest character is 20. The above statement can only realistically be made by high level characters who have played thru it. I find myself playing TSW most of the time, as GW2 just hasnt done it for me that much so far. I guess eventually i'll get a higher level, but certainly not any time soon. Then i can see for myself.

Dunno, I guess i'm just a "what you see is what you get" kinda person.

Depends on what isn't compelling to you. Story? Like most game stories it starts small and quickly becomes epic. Combat? If you find combat too easy then I can tell you it definitely gets harder as you level. Around level 50 or so all the mobs have more abilities, almost all of which have a poison or bleed(sometimes both). The mob density also increases to the point where you'll almost always fight 2-3 mobs at a time. Learning when to dodge, condition management, and other counters is vital to staying alive.

xpiher · September 2012

Originally posted by wrightstuf Please dont tell me GW2 is another one of those games..."It gets better later on" I've heard that about other MMOs, and in every case, if it sucked to start, it sucked. Why on earth would devs not strive to make their game very compelling in the beginning? They want to retain players, not drive them away. From my own experience, i cant say one way or the other. My highest character is 20. The above statement can only realistically be made by high level characters who have played thru it. I find myself playing TSW most of the time, as GW2 just hasnt done it for me that much so far. I guess eventually i'll get a higher level, but certainly not any time soon. Then i can see for myself. Dunno, I guess i'm just a "what you see is what you get" kinda person.

TSW has a more compelling single player feel, but I find the replayability of GW2 > TSW, which was what ANET was going for. Perhaps you haven't found a race/story combination that you enjoy or can get into? Have you done the type of DEs that spawn raid like bosses at the end (besides the intro boss)? How much of your personal story have you done?

In terms of game play, its pretty steady throughout your entire experience from 1-80. The difference is that it gets more challenging as you level and you open up dungeons that are tough, there are more "epic" style boss encounters, and Orr is basically a giant PvE war field.

Raven · September 2012

Originally posted by Tardcore
Originally posted by wrightstuf
Please dont tell me GW2 is another one of those games..."It gets better later on"

I've heard that about other MMOs, and in every case, if it sucked to start, it sucked. Why on earth would devs not strive to make their game very compelling in the beginning? They want to retain players, not drive them away.

From my own experience, i cant say one way or the other. My highest character is 20. The above statement can only realistically be made by high level characters who have played thru it. I find myself playing TSW most of the time, as GW2 just hasnt done it for me that much so far. I guess eventually i'll get a higher level, but certainly not any time soon. Then i can see for myself.

Dunno, I guess i'm just a "what you see is what you get" kinda person.

Well hate to tell you this but GW2 falls into the same trap as just about every MMO. While people like to go on and on about the so called "Horizontal progression", the fact of the matter is, is that the higher you level the better gear you get, which does make a difference reguardless of what some of the more rabid game fans would like to believe. More importantly the higher you level the more ability slots and trait points you unlock. Which means for example the warrior I play on my friends account (which may as well be my account as the insane WvW queues has made my friend abandon the game for now) who is now 27th, feels light years more powerful than he did at even 20th. So I'd say that yes the game does get better later on, mainly due to character progression.

Regardless of your opinion on the actual character progression is I must add that the higher level stuff has really saved the game for me, up until 70+ man what a snorefest, the DEs are a pile of garbage, they are ok for the first 20 levels but after the 12938129038th centaur invasion its a bit underwhelming when the novelty wears off, but actually once I hit the 70 areas it did really get much better, I actually feel like there is some proper challenges, I have to actually pay attention to the bosses, events have several phases with interesting mechanics, you can actually feel like there is some fail state going on as opposed to "we just aoed the hell out of every mob lets move on".

The dungeons on the other hand my god they are terrible, I havent done the last dungeon the one in Orr and I am sort of putting all my eggs in the same basket and hoping that one is gonna be interesting, but every other one is just a garbage mob zerg fest ( not from the players perspective but from the mobs ), they really managed to move away fromt he trinity thing when it comes to high level events by emphasising the personal responsability and making you rely on yourself and your tools to survive events, not so much in dungeons.

One of the cool things about the higher level events is seeing people wipe, honestly, seeing people fail simple mechanics really is telling of how they didnt setup the ramping up of the dynamic events all the way to 80 very well, like most people dont understand they will kill themselves with the reflection shields, they just sit there and spam auto attack throughout, they dont use evade at all when the guy is throwing a spear at you that one shots you.

Volkmar · September 2012

Yeah... no.

I mean, it is definitely true that events get better later on, you have more meta-events (that are bigger chains of events with a state that changes depending on where you are in the chain) and the zones gets better, they also get harder.

But the basic game is what you get at level 1. So if you do not like that, it is not going to suddenly change.

If you DO like the game at start, then you will like it even more later on.

If you DO NOT like the game because you are playing it like a standard MMO and did not notice this is not one (Granted, the game tries to let you know through tooltips and hints, but many do not notice those), then TRY to notice and you might like it.

NOTICE that weapon skills are not single target, your massive two handed sword will hit ALL enemies in its swing, even if the skill itself does not mention this. Rifle bullets CONTINUES in a line and may hit other targets and so on.

Positioning is very important, breath-like abilities for example can be used ON THE RUN. You are not rooted but for a few exceptions.

You can have 2 weapons equipped BUT nothing stop you from carring more and equipping them when needed. Utility and traits also make a huge difference. I just switched my elementalist from a staff/ranged build to a dual dagger/melee build, using lots of melee hard hitting ability from my set, like the awesome elite 2 handed flame sword or the Thor-like lightning hammer. They do huge damage, but leave me vulnerable, so I switched in a glyph for added toughness and an utility that makes me invulnerable for 3 hits.

Learn to look around and be alert of the environment. NPCs will come up to you to warn you of events, others must be triggered by you interacting with npcs or items in the environment. No shiny Symbols on top of people here, the game expect you to explore.

Also... the points on the map are not the end of all of the map. You might have 100% completion and have seen just some of it. There are hidden places, even hidden events and bosses scattered all over the place, if you just follow the zerg, you will never find them.

Events scale with people, you do not need a zerg to do them. You CAN, if you want. But you CAN also go somewhere else and be by yourself or a few friends. Granted now there are bazzillions of people around so that might be trickier, but as you level up and more areas open up for you, it should become much easier.

I could go on for hours, I think... but I stop here :P

Vesavius · September 2012

Originally posted by wrightstuf
Please dont tell me GW2 is another one of those games..."It gets better later on"

It DOES get better later on... that's not saying I haven't had a great time since L1 though.

Loving the game

Pigozz · September 2012

The difficulty is higher and higher as you progress

The story is also much more epic and fun

Which is weird but also makes sense, the first two acts feels like an itroduction to your character and game world

otacu · September 2012

Originally posted by wrightstuf
Please dont tell me GW2 is another one of those games..."It gets better later on"

I've heard that about other MMOs, and in every case, if it sucked to start, it sucked. Why on earth would devs not strive to make their game very compelling in the beginning? They want to retain players, not drive them away.

From my own experience, i cant say one way or the other. My highest character is 20. The above statement can only realistically be made by high level characters who have played thru it. I find myself playing TSW most of the time, as GW2 just hasnt done it for me that much so far. I guess eventually i'll get a higher level, but certainly not any time soon. Then i can see for myself.

Dunno, I guess i'm just a "what you see is what you get" kinda person.

If you don't like the game from the start and in YOUR opinion it sucks... well drop the game and go play a different mmorpg.

Pretty simple i guess.

A game cannot please everyone i think you already know this

GeezerGamer · September 2012

Originally posted by Tardcore
Originally posted by wrightstuf
Please dont tell me GW2 is another one of those games..."It gets better later on"

I've heard that about other MMOs, and in every case, if it sucked to start, it sucked. Why on earth would devs not strive to make their game very compelling in the beginning? They want to retain players, not drive them away.

From my own experience, i cant say one way or the other. My highest character is 20. The above statement can only realistically be made by high level characters who have played thru it. I find myself playing TSW most of the time, as GW2 just hasnt done it for me that much so far. I guess eventually i'll get a higher level, but certainly not any time soon. Then i can see for myself.

Dunno, I guess i'm just a "what you see is what you get" kinda person.

Well hate to tell you this but GW2 falls into the same trap as just about every MMO. While people like to go on and on about the so called "Horizontal progression", the fact of the matter is, is that the higher you level the better gear you get, which does make a difference reguardless of what some of the more rabid game fans would like to believe. More importantly the higher you level the more ability slots and trait points you unlock. Which means for example the warrior I play on my friends account (which may as well be my account as the insane WvW queues has made my friend abandon the game for now) who is now 27th, feels light years more powerful than he did at even 20th. So I'd say that yes the game does get better later on, mainly due to character progression.

Agreed. I am playing online with several friends, there are 4 of us and we formed our own guild. Once we all get on late at night, we all run around together, We have been progressing in the Asura areas as a team but each of us is a different race. We also, aren't all the same level, I'm about 10 levels ahead and I have the latest crafted gear on for my level. Between that and the unlockled skills, I do feel "twinked" running with these guys even though my effective level is the same.

InFlamestwo · September 2012

I like the game at lvl 1 and i like it at lvl 38. If you don't like it, try to like it and if you can't like it then don't play it.

Xzen · September 2012

The only difference between the starting areas and the level 80 zone is the complexity of the events and no hearts. Some of the level 80 events require "raid" level of cooperation to complete.

BigCountry · September 2012

I enjoyed TSW PvE MUCH more than GW2. Honestely I have not watched a cutscene yet in GW2. Yes they are that silly. Reminded me of a SNES game or something. I watched every cutscene while playing TSW, the content was just more mature and enjoyable for someone my age.

On the flip side, the WvW PvP in GW2 is superior to anything out right now. BUT the queues are stomping that into the ground atm....

My guilmates and I purchased GW2 for the WvW PvP. And the largest group we have been able to get into a WvW is 4 of us.....lol

And when you have servers that hold 2k people, but only allow 100 into the WvW, it sorta is a show stopping ordeal for most of us...

xpiher · September 2012

Originally posted by BigCountry
I enjoyed TSW PvE MUCH more than GW2. Honestely I have not watched a cutscene yet in GW2. Yes they are that silly. Reminded me of a SNES game or something. I watched every cutscene while playing TSW, the content was just more mature and enjoyable for someone my age.

On the flip side, the WvW PvP in GW2 is superior to anything out right now. BUT the queues are stomping that into the ground atm....

My guilmates and I purchased GW2 for the WvW PvP. And the largest group we have been able to get into a WvW is 4 of us.....lol

And when you have servers that hold 2k people, but only allow 100 into the WvW, it sorta is a show stopping ordeal for most of us...

I think the servers have more than 2k each TBH. And the limit on the number of people may be more than 100. Your complaint is still valid, just explaining numbers a little bit better. They do need to expand the limit. IMO, ANET should figure out a way to make multiple copies of WvW with a soft cap on the number of players. Say once you have more than 30, you are capped at having 1.5x the amount of people the least populated server. For instance if a server has 30 and the least populated has 20, then that server can't accept anymore people. However if the lowest populated server gets 25, each other server can have 37 people and so on until the cap is reached.

I wish the cut scenes were a little more dynamic than they are. GW1 had more movie like ones, but they surfice IMO. I agree with you that the story may be a bit .. cliche.

Oh and hi again btw :P

Meowhead · September 2012

Originally posted by Tardcore
Well hate to tell you this but GW2 falls into the same trap as just about every MMO. While people like to go on and on about the so called "Horizontal progression", the fact of the matter is, is that the higher you level the better gear you get, which does make a difference reguardless of what some of the more rabid game fans would like to believe. More importantly the higher you level the more ability slots and trait points you unlock. Which means for example the warrior I play on my friends account (which may as well be my account as the insane WvW queues has made my friend abandon the game for now) who is now 27th, feels light years more powerful than he did at even 20th. So I'd say that yes the game does get better later on, mainly due to character progression.

I've always just said that you hit max, or close to it 'relatively early'.

Under 200 hours. I'd say that's fair enough.

Maybe it's because I generally think of MMORPGs as being able to sink THOUSANDS of hours into it while still climbing vertically. Maybe none of them work that way anymore!

I'm thinking of things like AC, AO, DAOC, vanilla WoW... I dunno. Maybe games don't do that anymore, but I've always been very careful to specify that it's horizontal after a while, not immediately.

Wickedjelly · September 2012

Originally posted by Raven
Regardless of your opinion on the actual character progression is I must add that the higher level stuff has really saved the game for me, up until 70+ man what a snorefest, the DEs are a pile of garbage, they are ok for the first 20 levels but after the 12938129038th centaur invasion its a bit underwhelming when the novelty wears off, but actually once I hit the 70 areas it did really get much better, I actually feel like there is some proper challenges, I have to actually pay attention to the bosses, events have several phases with interesting mechanics, you can actually feel like there is some fail state going on as opposed to "we just aoed the hell out of every mob lets move on".

The dungeons on the other hand my god they are terrible, I havent done the last dungeon the one in Orr and I am sort of putting all my eggs in the same basket and hoping that one is gonna be interesting, but every other one is just a garbage mob zerg fest ( not from the players perspective but from the mobs ), they really managed to move away fromt he trinity thing when it comes to high level events by emphasising the personal responsability and making you rely on yourself and your tools to survive events, not so much in dungeons.

One of the cool things about the higher level events is seeing people wipe, honestly, seeing people fail simple mechanics really is telling of how they didnt setup the ramping up of the dynamic events all the way to 80 very well, like most people dont understand they will kill themselves with the reflection shields, they just sit there and spam auto attack throughout, they dont use evade at all when the guy is throwing a spear at you that one shots you.

I thought SE was at least okay. You actually had to plan some things out and pay attention more than simply running around in a couple boss fights. Haven't done anything higher than that one yet. I've already made my thoughts known about how I feel about the other dungeons so I'll just leave it at that.

TwoThreeFour · September 2012

Originally posted by BigCountry
I enjoyed TSW PvE MUCH more than GW2. Honestely I have not watched a cutscene yet in GW2. Yes they are that silly. Reminded me of a SNES game or something. I watched every cutscene while playing TSW, the content was just more mature and enjoyable for someone my age.

On the flip side, the WvW PvP in GW2 is superior to anything out right now. BUT the queues are stomping that into the ground atm....

My guilmates and I purchased GW2 for the WvW PvP. And the largest group we have been able to get into a WvW is 4 of us.....lol

And when you have servers that hold 2k people, but only allow 100 into the WvW, it sorta is a show stopping ordeal for most of us...

Do you mean graphically? Because I've often heard the SNES era was the pinnacle for single-player RPGs.

BigCountry · September 2012

Graphically the cutscenes are fine in GW2. They are just silly, story and content wise. Seem more like filler than anything else. Maybe it's just the whole fantasy genre, and the fact I am over it content wise. I compare these to watching cartoon network with my kids or something lol.

TSW cutscenese were more RL, and defintely more mature. Heck my character recieved a blow job in one of their cut scenes...lol

And yeah good to see you again too Xpiher. My numbers are off I know, but prob not too far off on the percentage of total server pop to total WvW pop allowed. Least it seems that way.

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