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Good game, just need a little fix to motivate players

KoreanSoWhatKoreanSoWhat TOronto, ONPosts: 80Member

I will make it short.

This is obviously one of top 3 games released in 2012, if not the very top.

Many pros, I won't even mention them.

Some Cons to overcome :

1. Need motives to play WvW.

Right now, WvW reward are A. tokens B. server-wide buff

  A. PvP token items are not very good, limited stats. Need more variation so tokens are more tempting to farm them.

  B. Server-wide buff is too minimal and isn't just enough for players to participate.

      Only dedicated PvPers will play WvW at this moment.

 

2. Dungeons are too grindy and they need re-balancing.

  Seriously, to fully equip dungeon set armors, you need to run ONE same dungeon for like 50 times+, which takes  30min~2hrs depend on the quality of party members. Even old WoW isn't that grindy and they had random dungeon finder to make dungeons less boring.

  Some dungeons are ridiculously hard, melee classes can't stand a chance in some dungeons. It isn't difficulty and skill issue, it is balancing issue. I don't doubht it will be fixed soon.

 

3. Need Party Finder

 You can teleport all around the world with a few silvers anyway, why not make the game more convinient? This game isn't designed as traditional journey adventure type anyway. Just make it easier with Party finder so extreme grind can ease off.

 

4. Need better motivation for crafting.

 This is my hope. It won't hurt the game. I hope crafted armors are more useful than right now.

Comments

  • chryseschryses LondonPosts: 1,453Member Uncommon

    I actually think PvP and WvW will kick off in month 2-3.  Only looking at my playing experience I love PvP and WvW environments and I haven't logged in once for that.  Too busy questing, crafting and doing personal story.  In between that I get side tracked and go exploring.  This is a good thing but I am expecting to log and play a lot of PvP in a couple of weeks.

    Maybe a lot of us like that out there?

  • gessekai332gessekai332 New York City, NYPosts: 877Member Common
    Originally posted by KoreanSoWhat

    I will make it short.

    This is obviously one of top 3 games released in 2012, if not the very top.

    Many pros, I won't even mention them.

    Some Cons to overcome :

    1. Need motives to play WvW.

    Right now, WvW reward are A. tokens B. server-wide buff

      A. PvP token items are not very good, limited stats. Need more variation so tokens are more tempting to farm them.

      B. Server-wide buff is too minimal and isn't just enough for players to participate.

          Only dedicated PvPers will play WvW at this moment.

     

    2. Dungeons are too grindy and they need re-balancing.

      Seriously, to fully equip dungeon set armors, you need to run ONE same dungeon for like 50 times+, which takes  30min~2hrs depend on the quality of party members. Even old WoW isn't that grindy and they had random dungeon finder to make dungeons less boring.

      Some dungeons are ridiculously hard, melee classes can't stand a chance in some dungeons. It isn't difficulty and skill issue, it is balancing issue. I don't doubht it will be fixed soon.

     

    3. Need Party Finder

     You can teleport all around the world with a few silvers anyway, why not make the game more convinient? This game isn't designed as traditional journey adventure type anyway. Just make it easier with Party finder so extreme grind can ease off.

     

    4. Need better motivation for crafting.

     This is my hope. It won't hurt the game. I hope crafted armors are more useful than right now.

    you are asking for a lot of trouble if you want to use dungeon finder for explorable dungeons. do you really want to be grouped with a bunch of random people who dont know what theyre doing and are too lazy to even look for a party to tackle the hardest content in the game? you are just asking for tears and ragequit.

     

    i do agree with you about wvwvw as well as crafting to an extent.

    Most memorable games: AoC(Tryanny PvP), RIFT, GW, GW2, Ragnarok Online, Aion, FFXI, FFXIV, Secret World, League of Legends (Silver II rank)

  • DrachasorDrachasor Columbus, OHPosts: 2,678Member
    Originally posted by KoreanSoWhat

    I will make it short.

    This is obviously one of top 3 games released in 2012, if not the very top.

    Many pros, I won't even mention them.

    Some Cons to overcome :

    1. Need motives to play WvW.

    Right now, WvW reward are A. tokens B. server-wide buff

      A. PvP token items are not very good, limited stats. Need more variation so tokens are more tempting to farm them.

      B. Server-wide buff is too minimal and isn't just enough for players to participate.

          Only dedicated PvPers will play WvW at this moment.

     

    2. Dungeons are too grindy and they need re-balancing.

      Seriously, to fully equip dungeon set armors, you need to run ONE same dungeon for like 50 times+, which takes  30min~2hrs depend on the quality of party members. Even old WoW isn't that grindy and they had random dungeon finder to make dungeons less boring.

      Some dungeons are ridiculously hard, melee classes can't stand a chance in some dungeons. It isn't difficulty and skill issue, it is balancing issue. I don't doubht it will be fixed soon.

     

    3. Need Party Finder

     You can teleport all around the world with a few silvers anyway, why not make the game more convinient? This game isn't designed as traditional journey adventure type anyway. Just make it easier with Party finder so extreme grind can ease off.

     

    4. Need better motivation for crafting.

     This is my hope. It won't hurt the game. I hope crafted armors are more useful than right now.

    1.  Maybe some PvP-based cosmetics?  I don't think there need to be rewards more than anything else in the game.  The essential idea is that you do things because they are fun.  If PvP isn't fun enough, then that should be the primary focus of fixing it.  Hmm, possibly there need to be overflow servers for the PvP zones since they seem to fill up too easily.  Eh, what am I talking about?  It makes more sense just to add more PvP zones.

    Hmm, maybe even cosmetics that you can sell and have your name on them.  That would be pretty cool.  The name would be something you'd see when mousing over the item.  So if you do a lot of PvP and are great at it, you could sell T-shirts advertising your awesomeness.

    That said, I think it is a little early to be too worried about PvP.  These things take a while to settle and stabalize, especially given how the servers have been.

     

    2.  From what I understand that high figure is, well, high.  It's more like half that.  I think the times and difficulty are fine overall.  I think 20-some times is ok to get all the cosmetics.

    Honestly, if there's anything that's grindy and annoying as heck in the game, it is going to be having multiple appearances.  You need top-end gear for each appearance.  You need an appearance set for each one.  You need a T-stone for each item.  You then need inventory space for all of that.  I really hate the whole t-stone system.  They should have used a cosmetic with pull-down menus, and have t-stones add an item to the appropriate menu non-destructively.  I'd pay for some of that.  Gah!  Pet peeve of mine, and I guess I'm one of the few who cares.  Eh, I got shouted down on the Guru forums a year+ ago because most people didn't care and didn't like criticism or thought you should just be happy there was any sort of system present.  : P

    Regarding melee, if there really is a problem, it will get fixed.  Arenanet seemed pretty good at fixing things for balance with GW1 -- it was one of their strengths.  It probably IS imbalanced now as they made the dungeons generally too hard for them to do, because they apparently admit they're skilless hacks at their own game (I say this in good humor with all the love in the world).

     

    3.  Some sort of party-finding chat would be good, I think.  Perhaps multiple chat rooms organized by dungeon or activity?  Not by level though, that would encourage people to think of level first.  GW1 had a system for looking for groups, so I guess GW2 could also have something like that.  Heck, it could even be something active in the open world.  That would do a lot to help people group up together.  If someone is looking, you can just click on them and team up.

    I do think the game needs some tweaks for group support.  Right now Hearts kind of discourage grouping.  If you meet up with someone you could easily have different hearts done and once it is done that place is DEAD to you.  They need to be tweaked in some manner to avoid this, imho.

    That said, it certainly doesn't need a Dungeon Finder that does it all automatically.  That encourages people to treat others as disposable.  Anyhow, the game is a bit to complex for any such system to work well.

     

    4.  Hopefully there are some unique appearances to be had.  I'm told that top-end gear is most easily gotten by crafting.  Right now the economy is a mess.

    I wouldn't mind some fun items for crafters, even some utility things that don't affect combat (e.g. parachutes).  WoW did this fairly well and it isn't a bad idea.

  • ScalplessScalpless SnowballvillePosts: 1,396Member Uncommon

    Regarding dungeon armor and the related grind:

    It's meant to be grindy, because it's a reward for hardcore PvE players. It's the same as in GW1. You're meant to use normal armor for months, until you get the exotic as a special reward. That's why there's no difference between exotics and normal armor stats wise. Essentially, it's ok if the majority of players never gets multiple exotic sets, because they're just for prestige.

    Of course, getting elite armor is very easy in GW1 right now, but it used to be a lot harder.

  • oubersoubers bazelPosts: 876Member Common

    With all do respect for the OP, i realy dont get the state of mind of people like that.....they say the game needs to motivate THEM??? RLY??

    I am 37 years right now and have been a gamer since i was 9......the motivation (for every other hobby i have too) is just FUN of playing a game.....if it feels like a job (yeah wow, lookin at you) then i just quit that game (because i cant motivate MYSELF TO PLAY IT).

    The way people think these day is getting realy odd (to say the least)......i just wonder, how on earth do people expect a piece of program code to motivate a human being to play a game?? (you like the game or you dont right??)

    Its amazing how people who think like that, realy believe that the game needs to be fixed and have no clue that its not the game that is the problem here but just the people them self who just cant motivate (read: have fun) playing a game.

    GW2 had enough fun things to do imho:

    - gathering and crafting

    - exploring

    - achievements

    - dungeons

    - pvp

    - DE's (a way that makes questing feel much more "alive" imo)

    - socializing (yeah you can chat in mmo's too)

    If none of these aspects of the game is able to "motivate" you then i dont see what devs can write to make you want to play it.......maybe you should tell us and/or the devs what you would like to see in future that might motivate you to play their game.

    just my 2 copperz......i dont get it but still like i say'd.....all do respect for the OP and his opinion.

     

    image
  • FrodoFraginsFrodoFragins Manchester, NHPosts: 2,930Member Uncommon
    I'll take 15 minute or less queues as incentive.  Right now it's hours long.
  • soulfly205soulfly205 Riverside, CAPosts: 32Member
    Originally posted by Scalpless

    Regarding dungeon armor and the related grind:

    It's meant to be grindy, because it's a reward for hardcore PvE players. It's the same as in GW1. You're meant to use normal armor for months, until you get the exotic as a special reward. That's why there's no difference between exotics and normal armor stats wise. Essentially, it's ok if the majority of players never gets multiple exotic sets, because they're just for prestige.

    Of course, getting elite armor is very easy in GW1 right now, but it used to be a lot harder.

    what he said. In ye olde school guild wars (prophecies era) You were a pimptastic pimp if you were wearing 15k granite platemail or the VERY (I say back then it was like 1 in 5000 person who had FoW armor). I was so proud of getting my first set of 15k armor it was an epic day. 

    then it got to the point where i could farm a set of 15k armor in like a day.

     

    image
  • LokbergLokberg OlsoPosts: 315Member
    Originally posted by FrodoFragins
    I'll take 15 minute or less queues as incentive.  Right now it's hours long.

    The answer is quite simple " Move to a less populated server, my server piken square eu i havent have to wait over 10 mins to get into WvW "

  • UkiahUkiah Austin, TXPosts: 273Member
    Originally posted by KoreanSoWhat

    I will make it short.

    This is obviously one of top 3 games released in 2012, if not the very top.

    Many pros, I won't even mention them.

    Some Cons to overcome :

    1. Need motives to play WvW.

    Right now, WvW reward are A. tokens B. server-wide buff

      A. PvP token items are not very good, limited stats. Need more variation so tokens are more tempting to farm them.

      B. Server-wide buff is too minimal and isn't just enough for players to participate.

          Only dedicated PvPers will play WvW at this moment.

     

    2. Dungeons are too grindy and they need re-balancing.

      Seriously, to fully equip dungeon set armors, you need to run ONE same dungeon for like 50 times+, which takes  30min~2hrs depend on the quality of party members. Even old WoW isn't that grindy and they had random dungeon finder to make dungeons less boring.

      Some dungeons are ridiculously hard, melee classes can't stand a chance in some dungeons. It isn't difficulty and skill issue, it is balancing issue. I don't doubht it will be fixed soon.

     

    3. Need Party Finder

     You can teleport all around the world with a few silvers anyway, why not make the game more convinient? This game isn't designed as traditional journey adventure type anyway. Just make it easier with Party finder so extreme grind can ease off.

     

    4. Need better motivation for crafting.

     This is my hope. It won't hurt the game. I hope crafted armors are more useful than right now.

    1B: You know there are a LOT of people complaining about 4 hours queues, right? Sounds to me like there's quite a lot of people pretty interested (or motivated) in WvWvW.

     

    4: I've never bene a big crafter (except for in AC and Eve where those things actually made a difference, unlike a lot of MMO's) but I'm digging GW2's 'discover recipes' as opposed to spending tons of money learning pre-defined items from a trainer at intervals. Maybe it's a little thing, but it's pretty cool IMO.

  • BilboDogginsBilboDoggins Gresham, ORPosts: 198Member
    Originally posted by oubers

    With all do respect for the OP, i realy dont get the state of mind of people like that.....they say the game needs to motivate THEM??? RLY??

    I am 37 years right now and have been a gamer since i was 9......the motivation (for every other hobby i have too) is just FUN of playing a game.....if it feels like a job (yeah wow, lookin at you) then i just quit that game (because i cant motivate MYSELF TO PLAY IT).

    The way people think these day is getting realy odd (to say the least)......i just wonder, how on earth do people expect a piece of program code to motivate a human being to play a game?? (you like the game or you dont right??)

    Its amazing how people who think like that, realy believe that the game needs to be fixed and have no clue that its not the game that is the problem here but just the people them self who just cant motivate (read: have fun) playing a game.

    GW2 had enough fun things to do imho:

    - gathering and crafting

    - exploring

    - achievements

    - dungeons

    - pvp

    - DE's (a way that makes questing feel much more "alive" imo)

    - socializing (yeah you can chat in mmo's too)

    If none of these aspects of the game is able to "motivate" you then i dont see what devs can write to make you want to play it.......maybe you should tell us and/or the devs what you would like to see in future that might motivate you to play their game.

    just my 2 copperz......i dont get it but still like i say'd.....all do respect for the OP and his opinion.

     

    Where have I heard the, "Theres tons of fun things to do" argument before ? hmmmmm.....Oh YES! SWTOR.

     

    Anyone who thinks GW2 doesnt need pvp rankings and titles is kidding themselves.

  • dariuszpdariuszp PrzeworskPosts: 182Member
    Originally posted by KoreanSoWhat

    I will make it short.

    This is obviously one of top 3 games released in 2012, if not the very top.

    Many pros, I won't even mention them.

    Some Cons to overcome :

    1. Need motives to play WvW.

    Right now, WvW reward are A. tokens B. server-wide buff

      A. PvP token items are not very good, limited stats. Need more variation so tokens are more tempting to farm them.

      B. Server-wide buff is too minimal and isn't just enough for players to participate.

          Only dedicated PvPers will play WvW at this moment.

     

    2. Dungeons are too grindy and they need re-balancing.

      Seriously, to fully equip dungeon set armors, you need to run ONE same dungeon for like 50 times+, which takes  30min~2hrs depend on the quality of party members. Even old WoW isn't that grindy and they had random dungeon finder to make dungeons less boring.

      Some dungeons are ridiculously hard, melee classes can't stand a chance in some dungeons. It isn't difficulty and skill issue, it is balancing issue. I don't doubht it will be fixed soon.

     

    3. Need Party Finder

     You can teleport all around the world with a few silvers anyway, why not make the game more convinient? This game isn't designed as traditional journey adventure type anyway. Just make it easier with Party finder so extreme grind can ease off.

     

    4. Need better motivation for crafting.

     This is my hope. It won't hurt the game. I hope crafted armors are more useful than right now.

    If you need motivation for WvsW then you are not PVP player. And it was design for PVP crowd. I know it because I'm there. And people in my guild that most of the time can't stand PVE in ANY game can't get enough of this.

    I agree with dungeon grind but I can't agree with balancing issues. In GW2 you have no mele classes. Almost every class have some kind or close range and long range weapons at their disposal. As warrior for example I use a bow. And sometimes I just hit 5s immortality skill (no damage) and I bring hammer from heaven on my enemies. After those 5s I'm back on bow. Simple.

    It's much better (in my opinion) that standing still and smashing things with huge sword.

    Why you need party finder while whole server is your party ? Join with people next to you. What I would like to see is mass teleport for the party if people stay in some range.

    From crafting you can get one of the best items in the game. What better motivation you need ? And it's a gold mine. Right not from selling mats. Later - from selling items. I'm dedicated crafter. On lvl 32 I was able to craft lvl 25 items way better than ones I had on me or could buy. Just experiment.

  • UkiahUkiah Austin, TXPosts: 273Member
    Originally posted by BilboDoggins
    Originally posted by oubers

    With all do respect for the OP, i realy dont get the state of mind of people like that.....they say the game needs to motivate THEM??? RLY??

    I am 37 years right now and have been a gamer since i was 9......the motivation (for every other hobby i have too) is just FUN of playing a game.....if it feels like a job (yeah wow, lookin at you) then i just quit that game (because i cant motivate MYSELF TO PLAY IT).

    The way people think these day is getting realy odd (to say the least)......i just wonder, how on earth do people expect a piece of program code to motivate a human being to play a game?? (you like the game or you dont right??)

    Its amazing how people who think like that, realy believe that the game needs to be fixed and have no clue that its not the game that is the problem here but just the people them self who just cant motivate (read: have fun) playing a game.

    GW2 had enough fun things to do imho:

    - gathering and crafting

    - exploring

    - achievements

    - dungeons

    - pvp

    - DE's (a way that makes questing feel much more "alive" imo)

    - socializing (yeah you can chat in mmo's too)

    If none of these aspects of the game is able to "motivate" you then i dont see what devs can write to make you want to play it.......maybe you should tell us and/or the devs what you would like to see in future that might motivate you to play their game.

    just my 2 copperz......i dont get it but still like i say'd.....all do respect for the OP and his opinion.

     

    Where have I heard the, "Theres tons of fun things to do" argument before ? hmmmmm.....Oh YES! SWTOR.

     

    Anyone who thinks GW2 doesnt need pvp rankings and titles is kidding themselves.

    I've played SWTOR and I've played GW2. And I was a very rabid support of SWTOR to the very bitter end. GW2's exploration (POI's, Vistas, jumping puzzles) are FAR more engaging than SWTOR's.

     

    PVP wise, WvWvW SHOULD'VE been something in SWTOR (+ a third faction). Sadly, everyone is aware of the failure that was SWTOR open world pvp. Now, I'll actually admit at this point that outside of WvWvW, GW2's pvp is dissapointing IN THAT while there are several maps, they're all point domination maps and one thing SWTOR got right was Huttball and Novarre Coast (yes, I know it's a domination style map, but you have to control two points to earn ANY points). I would really rather have many different types of matches in hotjoin/sPVP. The couple matches I did,  I wans't terribly impressed. 

    Also, there are pvp titles and a quasi ranking system in pvp, at least for tournaments and in the matchups for WvWvW.

  • BilboDogginsBilboDoggins Gresham, ORPosts: 198Member
    Originally posted by cahenderson
    Originally posted by BilboDoggins
    Originally posted by oubers

    With all do respect for the OP, i realy dont get the state of mind of people like that.....they say the game needs to motivate THEM??? RLY??

    I am 37 years right now and have been a gamer since i was 9......the motivation (for every other hobby i have too) is just FUN of playing a game.....if it feels like a job (yeah wow, lookin at you) then i just quit that game (because i cant motivate MYSELF TO PLAY IT).

    The way people think these day is getting realy odd (to say the least)......i just wonder, how on earth do people expect a piece of program code to motivate a human being to play a game?? (you like the game or you dont right??)

    Its amazing how people who think like that, realy believe that the game needs to be fixed and have no clue that its not the game that is the problem here but just the people them self who just cant motivate (read: have fun) playing a game.

    GW2 had enough fun things to do imho:

    - gathering and crafting

    - exploring

    - achievements

    - dungeons

    - pvp

    - DE's (a way that makes questing feel much more "alive" imo)

    - socializing (yeah you can chat in mmo's too)

    If none of these aspects of the game is able to "motivate" you then i dont see what devs can write to make you want to play it.......maybe you should tell us and/or the devs what you would like to see in future that might motivate you to play their game.

    just my 2 copperz......i dont get it but still like i say'd.....all do respect for the OP and his opinion.

     

    Where have I heard the, "Theres tons of fun things to do" argument before ? hmmmmm.....Oh YES! SWTOR.

     

    Anyone who thinks GW2 doesnt need pvp rankings and titles is kidding themselves.

    I've played SWTOR and I've played GW2. And I was a very rabid support of SWTOR to the very bitter end. GW2's exploration (POI's, Vistas, jumping puzzles) are FAR more engaging than SWTOR's.

     

    PVP wise, WvWvW SHOULD'VE been something in SWTOR (+ a third faction). Sadly, everyone is aware of the failure that was SWTOR open world pvp. Now, I'll actually admit at this point that outside of WvWvW, GW2's pvp is dissapointing IN THAT while there are several maps, they're all point domination maps and one thing SWTOR got right was Huttball and Novarre Coast (yes, I know it's a domination style map, but you have to control two points to earn ANY points). I would really rather have many different types of matches in hotjoin/sPVP. The couple matches I did,  I wans't terribly impressed. 

    Also, there are pvp titles and a quasi ranking system in pvp, at least for tournaments and in the matchups for WvWvW.

    People want server rankings, guild rankings, rank titles, stat tracking.

     

    When GW2 puts these things in it will be the pvp game everyone expected it to be. Until then its pointless zerg for the loss. When PS2 comes out its gonna get the pvp crowd anyways though so it doesnt really matter what ANet does. PS2 is the future of PVP ESports.

  • ScalplessScalpless SnowballvillePosts: 1,396Member Uncommon
    PS2 is a FPS. It also won't be available in EU properly.
  • AzureProwerAzurePrower AustraliaPosts: 1,508Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by cahenderson

     PVP wise, WvWvW SHOULD'VE been something in SWTOR (+ a third faction). Sadly, everyone is aware of the failure that was SWTOR open world pvp.


    This a thousand times!

    The lack of open world PVP made me lose interest in SWTOR. I could only stand warzones so much because of the lack of persistence and queues between each one. I was spending more time on the fleet than any thing.

    I haven't played any PVP other than WvWvW in Guild Wars 2 because it's so entertaining. There's tons of things to do in it and not just PVP. It's a perfect mix of PVE and PVP.

  • Loke666Loke666 MalmöPosts: 18,028Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by KoreanSoWhat

    I will make it short.

    This is obviously one of top 3 games released in 2012, if not the very top.

    Many pros, I won't even mention them.

    Some Cons to overcome :

    1. Need motives to play WvW.

    Right now, WvW reward are A. tokens B. server-wide buff

      A. PvP token items are not very good, limited stats. Need more variation so tokens are more tempting to farm them.

      B. Server-wide buff is too minimal and isn't just enough for players to participate.

          Only dedicated PvPers will play WvW at this moment.

    2. Dungeons are too grindy and they need re-balancing.

      Seriously, to fully equip dungeon set armors, you need to run ONE same dungeon for like 50 times+, which takes  30min~2hrs depend on the quality of party members. Even old WoW isn't that grindy and they had random dungeon finder to make dungeons less boring.

      Some dungeons are ridiculously hard, melee classes can't stand a chance in some dungeons. It isn't difficulty and skill issue, it is balancing issue. I don't doubht it will be fixed soon.

    3. Need Party Finder

     You can teleport all around the world with a few silvers anyway, why not make the game more convinient? This game isn't designed as traditional journey adventure type anyway. Just make it easier with Party finder so extreme grind can ease off.

    4. Need better motivation for crafting.

     This is my hope. It won't hurt the game. I hope crafted armors are more useful than right now.

    1. Yeah, I guess they could give people more ecouragement PvP wise, but stats is not the perfect solutions. Time to add the guildhalls and personal housing (Jeff Grubb actually said they put some work into it last year already but that they wouldnt have the time to get it in at release). Trophies are a great way to encourage players.

    Some dyes specfically for PvPers and more specific looking gear are good as well. Anything that looks so people want it is perfect.

    2. Yeah, dungeons do need balancing but I am sure that is already in progress. 

    3. Cant say I care the least about it myself, I have a guild instead but if it makes guildless people happy so fine. As long as it is serverspecific (otherwise it makes the server community less tight) it is fine for me.

    4, Are you kidding me? I am just about to start crafting gold items with just 125 in weapon crafting skill, crafted stuff is really good here. And if that isnt enough for you I only have one word: Twilight.

    The epic weapons in GW2 are truly epic. :)

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