I just hate the way they did the weapon skills. After your weapon skills are complete, what other reason is there to level? Yea I get the support and healing skills but none of them ever really seem worth grinding up and still using the same weapon skills you've always used throughout the whole game.
I think people who say this REALLY need to look at Traits more than anything else.
There are a lot of trait builds that fundamentally change how you'd play your class. That's where a lot of the meat of leveling and build complexity is. They combine with weapon and other skills in a lot of ways while still leaving a lot of possibilities.
Originally posted by wireyankee Honest review, and I tend to agree with much of what you said. I still think it's a good game, I'm just not wowed by it at all. The fact that it's "FREE" creates a lot of favorable reviews. If GW@ was subscription based I don't think it would be receiving the praise it does currently.
I agree with this. It isn t a bad game, but if it were a sub game, it would be half if not 1/4 as popular.
But lets be honest sub based games are basically going the way of the dinosaur. To say if it was sub based it would be 1/4 as popular is silly. Chances are if it was sub based it would go the way of SWTOR at some point in the future, but thats as much because of the way gaming is going as it is anything the game does right or wrong. F2P or hybrid like DDO has done is the wave of the future and in reality the wave of the present. Sub based gaming is just about done.
People have been saying that for at least 3 years now. There are still sub-based games around, and new ones are or have been released that still have them.
They'll still be saying it 3 years from now.
And then 3 years after that.
Subscriptions are the ideal payment method for certain MMOs based on the way they're designed.
Just like F2P/Cash shops are the ideal setup for MMOs designed around that idea.
Just like B2P is the same way.
F2P is "the new craze". B2P+Cash Shop (the GW2 model) is just another alternative.
Subs aren't going anywhere. Just get over it already.
People have been saying that for at least 3 years now. There are still sub-based games around, and new ones are or have been released that still have them.
They'll still be saying it 3 years from now.
And then 3 years after that.
Subscriptions are the ideal payment method for certain MMOs based on the way they're designed.
Just like F2P/Cash shops are the ideal setup for MMOs designed around that idea.
Just like B2P is the same way.
F2P is "the new craze". B2P+Cash Shop (the GW2 model) is just another alternative.
Subs aren't going anywhere. Just get over it already.
Well, Subs are ideal for the company. It is easier to keep people paying subs than to keep them buying new products. A lot less work and a lot more profit. I don't really see how it serves the consumer well at all.
I just hate the way they did the weapon skills. After your weapon skills are complete, what other reason is there to level? Yea I get the support and healing skills but none of them ever really seem worth grinding up and still using the same weapon skills you've always used throughout the whole game.
I think people who say this REALLY need to look at Traits more than anything else.
There are a lot of trait builds that fundamentally change how you'd play your class. That's where a lot of the meat of leveling and build complexity is. They combine with weapon and other skills in a lot of ways while still leaving a lot of possibilities.
I keep trying to explain this to people, but seems like a lot dont get it. Just as an example with a ranger build that i can create, here are things Ill have at 80 tha I didnt have at lower level:
Stat increases:
300 Power
30% Condition duration
300 Precision
30% Critical damage
100 Vitality
10% Boon duration
Skills / effects:
Opening Strike - Cause vulnerability with 1st strike when entering combat
Damage increased by 10% when Endurance is full
Pets have Opening Strike
All arrow attacks pierce targets
Opening STrike always critical hits
Increase Precision of nearby allies by 70 points
Gain swiftness when swapping weapons in combat
Critical hits grant Might to your pets
Gain Fury when swapping weapons in combat
Bow skills recharge 20% faster
Deal 10% more damage while flanking (behind or to the side of enemy)
Conditions caused by traps last twice as long and traps recharge 20% faster
Gain Regen when your health reaches 75%
Regeneration you apply last 33% longer
This doesnt even account for Utility & Elite Skills, or customizing my character further through Rune & Sigil use.
Runes & Sigils are another huge factor for building your character to server different purposes. For example on my Ranger right now im running a Rune that adds +5 Power for each kill, up to 25 stacks. So when fully charged Ive got a bonus +125 power. This is just with a low level rune. There are better versions of it that add even more. Theres also runes that increase other stats, increase duration of effects, add procs such as fire AoEs, lightning strikes, etc, Health stealing effects, increased damage vs certain enemies, increased damage vs people who you stun/knockdown/daze.... a huge list of varied effects depending on how you upgrade your gear, way too many for me to go through on a list here.
I really really wanted to love this game. I just can't get into it.
The pvp battlegrounds can be pretty fun but with no real reward I don't see any motivation to keep going and going. I am not a big quester, and while I enjoy the classes and the world is beautiful I just hate the way they did the weapon skills. After your weapon skills are complete, what other reason is there to level? Yea I get the support and healing skills but none of them ever really seem worth grinding up and still using the same weapon skills you've always used throughout the whole game. I feel that the WvWvW was very fun at first and probably could be still but because of the reason I just mentioned for finding the classes boring I can't get into it that often either.
So here I sit with two level 9 characters and no real drive to log back in. Even my good friend who plays with me and loves to quest isn't very motivated to log in. Maybe I'm missing something here but I feel there is such a lack of reward versus how much grind they put into this one isn't equalling out. The way they did class skills is extremely boring to me and I don't see any reason whatsoever to level to 80. I don't hate the game or think that it's terrible (aside from a few features that should be expected in a AAA mmo), I'm just extremely bored by it and dissapointed because I was hoping it would keep me entertained for a few months at least.
well that's you. You'll be missing out on all the fun, expansions, updates, that this game has to offer. Go back to WoW.
Out of the two of us, you're the one who sounds like you came from WoW. I never played wow for more than a month. I've been playing MMOs since EQ and would stake more claim to Rift than any other recent mmo. Learn how to talk with adults sweety.
"God, please help us sinful children of Ivalice.."
Originally posted by wireyankee Honest review, and I tend to agree with much of what you said. I still think it's a good game, I'm just not wowed by it at all. The fact that it's "FREE" creates a lot of favorable reviews. If GW@ was subscription based I don't think it would be receiving the praise it does currently.
I agree with this. It isn t a bad game, but if it were a sub game, it would be half if not 1/4 as popular.
But lets be honest sub based games are basically going the way of the dinosaur. To say if it was sub based it would be 1/4 as popular is silly. Chances are if it was sub based it would go the way of SWTOR at some point in the future, but thats as much because of the way gaming is going as it is anything the game does right or wrong. F2P or hybrid like DDO has done is the wave of the future and in reality the wave of the present. Sub based gaming is just about done.
People have been saying that for at least 3 years now. There are still sub-based games around, and new ones are or have been released that still have them.
They'll still be saying it 3 years from now.
And then 3 years after that.
Subscriptions are the ideal payment method for certain MMOs based on the way they're designed.
Just like F2P/Cash shops are the ideal setup for MMOs designed around that idea.
Just like B2P is the same way.
F2P is "the new craze". B2P+Cash Shop (the GW2 model) is just another alternative.
Subs aren't going anywhere. Just get over it already.
Yes there are still sub based games. That alone does not make what I said false. The fact you have premier titles going from sub based to some form of free to play is proof that what I said has a better chance of happening then your claims of it being a craze or a fad. Even games designed for subscriptions have gone away from it. The F2P simply gets your product more exposure. Personally I hate the F2P model as it attracts the lowest common denominators to the game and in general forms a horrible community. But as a business plan it makes more money for the average MMO. Not every game can be WoW when it comes to playerbase.
The number of games being released with a subscription format for pay is tiny compared to just 5 years ago.
The fact is subs are going away. Soon enough almost no new game will open with that payment method. Saying anything else is just ignorance of the market.
I just hate the way they did the weapon skills. After your weapon skills are complete, what other reason is there to level? Yea I get the support and healing skills but none of them ever really seem worth grinding up and still using the same weapon skills you've always used throughout the whole game.
I think people who say this REALLY need to look at Traits more than anything else.
There are a lot of trait builds that fundamentally change how you'd play your class. That's where a lot of the meat of leveling and build complexity is. They combine with weapon and other skills in a lot of ways while still leaving a lot of possibilities.
I keep trying to explain this to people, but seems like a lot dont get it. Just as an example with a ranger build that i can create, here are things Ill have at 80 tha I didnt have at lower level:
Stat increases:
300 Power
30% Condition duration
300 Precision
30% Critical damage
100 Vitality
10% Boon duration
Skills / effects:
Opening Strike - Cause vulnerability with 1st strike when entering combat
Damage increased by 10% when Endurance is full
Pets have Opening Strike
All arrow attacks pierce targets
Opening STrike always critical hits
Increase Precision of nearby allies by 70 points
Gain swiftness when swapping weapons in combat
Critical hits grant Might to your pets
Gain Fury when swapping weapons in combat
Bow skills recharge 20% faster
Deal 10% more damage while flanking (behind or to the side of enemy)
Conditions caused by traps last twice as long and traps recharge 20% faster
Gain Regen when your health reaches 75%
Regeneration you apply last 33% longer
What trait set up will you have to achieve this? I am at level 20 on my Ranger and would like to look at what your layout will be. PM if you dont want to have it in public, if you dont mind of course.
I really really wanted to love this game. I just can't get into it.
The pvp battlegrounds can be pretty fun but with no real reward I don't see any motivation to keep going and going. I am not a big quester, and while I enjoy the classes and the world is beautiful I just hate the way they did the weapon skills. After your weapon skills are complete, what other reason is there to level? Yea I get the support and healing skills but none of them ever really seem worth grinding up and still using the same weapon skills you've always used throughout the whole game. I feel that the WvWvW was very fun at first and probably could be still but because of the reason I just mentioned for finding the classes boring I can't get into it that often either.
So here I sit with two level 9 characters and no real drive to log back in. Even my good friend who plays with me and loves to quest isn't very motivated to log in. Maybe I'm missing something here but I feel there is such a lack of reward versus how much grind they put into this one isn't equalling out. The way they did class skills is extremely boring to me and I don't see any reason whatsoever to level to 80. I don't hate the game or think that it's terrible (aside from a few features that should be expected in a AAA mmo), I'm just extremely bored by it and dissapointed because I was hoping it would keep me entertained for a few months at least.
At LVL 9 there is no way you even know how fun the combat is or not.
Once you put more points into your traits and such, you unlock new weapons and skills. I can have a grenade slot which has its own 5 skills, a flaethrower that has its own 5 and so on, probably 10-15 new weapons to unlock as you lvl with 4-5-6 skills each.
You probably ruined your MMORPG days by grinding and doing battlegrounds in WOW for years and don't know what to do without that.
Again, never a big WoW fan. Look up years of past posts on here and you'll see that. Why is that the standard insult? My people (EQ, UO, DAoC) created that inslut, at least identify correctly who to toss it at.
"God, please help us sinful children of Ivalice.."
I really really wanted to love this game. I just can't get into it.
The pvp battlegrounds can be pretty fun but with no real reward I don't see any motivation to keep going and going.
This is just something that has to be this or that. There's a whole lot of people who whines in other games that the PvP (and end game) is a huge gear grind and they dont like it.
I belong more or less to that lot, and I really dont like the gear grind mode since the gear is not anykind of "real reward" like many are being led to believe. How is it "real" when you are supposed to replace it untill the world's end? You never really get anything good that does not get replaced soon. Anyway, some people like that, and some does not, finally an alternative for a gear grind so it should be nice that there's some variety now.
About the class skills, I kind of agree with everything coming too fast, I was around lvl15-20 when I started to feel like my char is kind of "unlocked" and it gave me a brief "meh" feeling. I just kept going since I love the world and the sense of discovery it gives me, and I realized that after the initial shock this "fast ability gain" system is better in some ways.
A common whine with mmorpgs is "why do I have to wait till high levels to start enjoying the game?" which can mean several things. Like epic encounters, or then there's the class unlocks like abilities and talents. You get abilities fast in GW2 which means you can very fast start playing your char like you want to, and not wait for days or weeks to unlock that potentially nice and cool ability. The filler abilities are basically gone and I dont really miss them just to get something useless along the ding.
There's still the trait points coming in untill the max level which give quite a lot customization to your char. Also, you basically need to level if you enjoy WvW since your char is so much worse at low levels even with the scaling up to 80 when you are short a ton of trait points and stats.
Then there's other things, like gaining stuff to get your appearance right, collecting sigils and other higher level customization stuff, getting achievements, puzzles etc. I'm pretty occupied and having a lot of fun after some adaptation about certain things But yeah, it is what it is, mostly design choises, not flaws imo.
Traits were the one thing I had left I really wanted to investigate. I am huge on class customization and you guys who spoke of the traits definitely helped keep me motivated to play a bit more.
In general you can complain simply because you don't like the game or suggest what you want and claim that GW2 is something new and different. But my point at the begining is that if I'm bored to tears at level 9 I shouldn't have to labor through to find things that make the game personally rewarding and fun.
I am definitely going to give the traits a look. I am thankful for those of you who offered polite suggestions and encouragement rather than outright childishly deny anything that could ever be said negative about GW2.
"God, please help us sinful children of Ivalice.."
I really really wanted to love this game. I just can't get into it.
The pvp battlegrounds can be pretty fun but with no real reward I don't see any motivation to keep going and going.
This is just something that has to be this or that. There's a whole lot of people who whines in other games that the PvP (and end game) is a huge gear grind and they dont like it.
I belong more or less to that lot, and I really dont like the gear grind mode since the gear is not anykind of "real reward" like many are being led to believe. How is it "real" when you are supposed to replace it untill the world's end? You never really get anything good that does not get replaced soon. Anyway, some people like that, and some does not, finally an alternative for a gear grind so it should be nice that there's some variety now.
About the class skills, I kind of agree with everything coming too fast, I was around lvl15-20 when I started to feel like my char is kind of "unlocked" and it gave me a brief "meh" feeling. I just kept going since I love the world and the sense of discovery it gives me, and I realized that after the initial shock this "fast ability gain" system is better in some ways.
A common whine with mmorpgs is "why do I have to wait till high levels to start enjoying the game?" which can mean several things. Like epic encounters, or then there's the class unlocks like abilities and talents. You get abilities fast in GW2 which means you can very fast start playing your char like you want to, and not wait for days or weeks to unlock that potentially nice and cool ability. The filler abilities are basically gone and I dont really miss them just to get something useless along the ding.
There's still the trait points coming in untill the max level which give quite a lot customization to your char. Also, you basically need to level if you enjoy WvW since your char is so much worse at low levels even with the scaling up to 80 when you are short a ton of trait points and stats.
Then there's other things, like gaining stuff to get your appearance right, collecting sigils and other higher level customization stuff, getting achievements, puzzles etc. I'm pretty occupied and having a lot of fun after some adaptation about certain things But yeah, it is what it is, mostly design choises, not flaws imo.
Thank you for this post, it was very helpful and encouraging!
"God, please help us sinful children of Ivalice.."
Yes there are still sub based games. That alone does not make what I said false. The fact you have premier titles going from sub based to some form of free to play is proof that what I said has a better chance of happening then your claims of it being a craze or a fad. Even games designed for subscriptions have gone away from it. The F2P simply gets your product more exposure. Personally I hate the F2P model as it attracts the lowest common denominators to the game and in general forms a horrible community. But as a business plan it makes more money for the average MMO. Not every game can be WoW when it comes to playerbase.
The number of games being released with a subscription format for pay is tiny compared to just 5 years ago.
The fact is subs are going away. Soon enough almost no new game will open with that payment method. Saying anything else is just ignorance of the market.
I think this is inevtable as well. When choosing between games with a sub fee and those without, there's a lot of incentive for a customer to choose one without. Since sub fees don't seem to add much of anything to the game and certainly aren't necessary, it stands to reason that eventually companies would compete by not using subs. Once that starts, more and more companies will go that route since it is easier than trying to mimic WoW's success.
And lets' be honest, the only reason they go after subs is because most vast majority of a sub is pure, sweet profit. There are B2P games with free online multi-player, great support indefinitely, updates, etc. Heck, just look at Diablo II for an example from Blizzard, they even added content for free.
Traits were the one thing I had left I really wanted to investigate. I am huge on class customization and you guys who spoke of the traits definitely helped keep me motivated to play a bit more.
In general you can complain simply because you don't like the game or suggest what you want and claim that GW2 is something new and different. But my point at the begining is that if I'm bored to tears at level 9 I shouldn't have to labor through to find things that make the game personally rewarding and fun.
I am definitely going to give the traits a look. I am thankful for those of you who offered polite suggestions and encouragement rather than outright childishly deny anything that could ever be said negative about GW2.
Just curious, but what class are you playing? I'm sure we could help out with your investigations.
Traits were the one thing I had left I really wanted to investigate. I am huge on class customization and you guys who spoke of the traits definitely helped keep me motivated to play a bit more.
In general you can complain simply because you don't like the game or suggest what you want and claim that GW2 is something new and different. But my point at the begining is that if I'm bored to tears at level 9 I shouldn't have to labor through to find things that make the game personally rewarding and fun.
I am definitely going to give the traits a look. I am thankful for those of you who offered polite suggestions and encouragement rather than outright childishly deny anything that could ever be said negative about GW2.
Just curious, but what class are you playing? I'm sure we could help out with your investigations.
I have always been a healer and played healer classes so I've got a water ele. But I've had more fun with the mesmer in staff skillset.
"God, please help us sinful children of Ivalice.."
I just hate the way they did the weapon skills. After your weapon skills are complete, what other reason is there to level? Yea I get the support and healing skills but none of them ever really seem worth grinding up and still using the same weapon skills you've always used throughout the whole game.
I think people who say this REALLY need to look at Traits more than anything else.
There are a lot of trait builds that fundamentally change how you'd play your class. That's where a lot of the meat of leveling and build complexity is. They combine with weapon and other skills in a lot of ways while still leaving a lot of possibilities.
I keep trying to explain this to people, but seems like a lot dont get it. Just as an example with a ranger build that i can create, here are things Ill have at 80 tha I didnt have at lower level:
Stat increases:
300 Power
30% Condition duration
300 Precision
30% Critical damage
100 Vitality
10% Boon duration
Skills / effects:
Opening Strike - Cause vulnerability with 1st strike when entering combat
Damage increased by 10% when Endurance is full
Pets have Opening Strike
All arrow attacks pierce targets
Opening STrike always critical hits
Increase Precision of nearby allies by 70 points
Gain swiftness when swapping weapons in combat
Critical hits grant Might to your pets
Gain Fury when swapping weapons in combat
Bow skills recharge 20% faster
Deal 10% more damage while flanking (behind or to the side of enemy)
Conditions caused by traps last twice as long and traps recharge 20% faster
Gain Regen when your health reaches 75%
Regeneration you apply last 33% longer
What trait set up will you have to achieve this? I am at level 20 on my Ranger and would like to look at what your layout will be. PM if you dont want to have it in public, if you dont mind of course.
Thats not actually the build Ill end up with most likely. That was just quickly throwing point sinto the calculator to show an example of the difference between low level and max level. You can play around with builds here: http://www.gw2db.com/skills/calc/ranger
Also if you want to test out your builds theres something many dont realize. Go into the sPvP area / Heart of The Mists. You can do this by pressing H, clicking the PvP tab ont he left side, and clicking the option to go there.
In the Heart of the Mists youll be boosted to 80, have all Utility / Elite Skills unlock, and 70 Trait points which you can freely reset and spend. So you can test out ways you would like to build.
In that area there is also a weapon selling NPC named PVP Items (Weaponsmith) who sells real weapons but also has a tab on the left for "Steady Weapons". Steady weapons are low damage weapons with no attack range. What that means is their min and max damage is the same, no gap between them, so those weapons will always hit for the same amount instead of getting highs and lows.
You can grab one of those weapons, play with your traits / skills, and then test it out on the dummies to get a steady comparison of damage with various builds and really figure ut how to be the most effective at different things.
Edit: In that skill calculator, there is also an Equipment tab that lets you play around with stuff like having different runes equipped to compare stats with different runes.
I don't hate the game or think that it's terrible (aside from a few features that should be expected in a AAA mmo)
This is the part that always interests me. I'd love to hear more.
How about...
1. Player to player direct barter/trade system - no comment, it's just unbelievable that GW2 doesn't have this basic feature.
2. Open world PvP - despite the "dynamic" events the world feels so "safe" and predictable that much of the excitement of adventuring is just gone and dead. ("dynamic" = grindy repetitive public quests that you learn to time and grind after 20 minutes in an area.)
3. Duels - see point 1. Just unbelievable.
Those just popped in my head in a frame of a second, and are just so basic and fundamental that makes the game feel unfinished, or kind of Beta. Could think a dozen more missing geatures if I was bored enough.
I didn't ask you, but ok.. I can see how some people would miss those features. I just want to reiterate a point I've tried making here several times - ie: why, if an MMO does not have these "standard" features, is it less complete? Are you really saying every game should have every feature that you feel is standard? I think that would get boring. Oh wait, it did, and it even has a name. It's called 2006-2012.
Also, I doubt you could name a dozen more features the game is missing.
As for the rest of you, be nice to the OP. I had to get to level 15 with my warrior before I really felt like it fit, and frankly the starter zones are waaaay more boring than the second and third leveling areas.
I don't hate the game or think that it's terrible (aside from a few features that should be expected in a AAA mmo)
This is the part that always interests me. I'd love to hear more.
How about...
1. Player to player direct barter/trade system - no comment, it's just unbelievable that GW2 doesn't have this basic feature.
2. Open world PvP - despite the "dynamic" events the world feels so "safe" and predictable that much of the excitement of adventuring is just gone and dead. ("dynamic" = grindy repetitive public quests that you learn to time and grind after 20 minutes in an area.)
3. Duels - see point 1. Just unbelievable.
Those just popped in my head in a frame of a second, and are just so basic and fundamental that makes the game feel unfinished, or kind of Beta. Could think a dozen more missing geatures if I was bored enough.
I didn't ask you, but ok.. I can see how some people would miss those features. I just want to reiterate a point I've tried making here several times - ie: why, if an MMO does not have these "standard" features, is it less complete? Are you really saying every game should have every feature that you feel is standard? I think that would get boring. Oh wait, it did, and it even has a name. It's called 2006-2012.
Also, I doubt you could name a dozen more features the game is missing.
As for the rest of you, be nice to the OP. I had to get to level 15 with my warrior before I really felt like it fit, and frankly the starter zones are waaaay more boring than the second and third leveling areas.
If every game had the same features then we would hear how no one tries anything new.
Well op you and many others I am sure are feeling that way. For you personally you aren't getting your money's worth and there is nothing wrong with feeling that way. As a customer you should always get your moeny's worth. I'm just shocked at ArenaNet that they spent so much time on this game just for a lot to be disappointed. I guess maybe they should have done in a different direction. Hope you find the mmo you are looking for soon!
The number of games being released with a subscription format for pay is tiny compared to just 5 years ago.
The fact is subs are going away. Soon enough almost no new game will open with that payment method. Saying anything else is just ignorance of the market.
There has been a grand total of ONE major MMO thats ever in the history of the genre released without a sub, and it was b2p. So I have no clue what you are talking about.. Are there lots of awful f2p games being released? yes, yes there are. We are stll waiting on the first high quality f2p release. And I think we will be waiting a while.
I don't hate the game or think that it's terrible (aside from a few features that should be expected in a AAA mmo)
This is the part that always interests me. I'd love to hear more.
How about...
1. Player to player direct barter/trade system - no comment, it's just unbelievable that GW2 doesn't have this basic feature.
2. Open world PvP - despite the "dynamic" events the world feels so "safe" and predictable that much of the excitement of adventuring is just gone and dead. ("dynamic" = grindy repetitive public quests that you learn to time and grind after 20 minutes in an area.)
3. Duels - see point 1. Just unbelievable.
Those just popped in my head in a frame of a second, and are just so basic and fundamental that makes the game feel unfinished, or kind of Beta. Could think a dozen more missing geatures if I was bored enough.
WTF?????????????????
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
Personally, the only reason I'm enjoying is because I play with no goal in mind. I mostly do sPVP and occassionally queue up for WvWvW with my friends, but when I feel like PVEing I just aimlessly walk around and explore what to do.
At level 80, I'll have the advantage of stat increase/versatility with top end exotic armor and runes coupled with traits. They are valuable to have an edge, but aren't completely necessary when you are just 1 of many in a group. For that reason, I do not see much necessity in getting to 80 as fast (at least, relative to other games and elitist guild where this is an absolute must). Basically, I just tend to go off and explore and know that one day I'll be level 80.
Along the way, I'll be PvPing any way. Really, just enjoy the game. Don't even try to love the game - just go along with it. Socialize, talk in guild, talk in teamspeak/vent/mumble, talk in map chat, help the server. That laid back attitude was made for this game. Eventually, when things will get heated up in WvWvW - you'd be glad to know you got the server you played with while leveling to support you.
The number of games being released with a subscription format for pay is tiny compared to just 5 years ago.
The fact is subs are going away. Soon enough almost no new game will open with that payment method. Saying anything else is just ignorance of the market.
There has been a grand total of ONE major MMO thats ever in the history of the genre released without a sub, and it was b2p. So I have no clue what you are talking about.. Are there lots of awful f2p games being released? yes, yes there are. We are stll waiting on the first high quality f2p release. And I think we will be waiting a while.
Let me introduce you to World of Tanks. It may or may not be your style of game but its popularity and playerbase world wide cant be denied and its free to play.
Forget major games released F2P and look at the major ones moving to free to play after learning they could not survive as subscription based. Or are you just pretending at this point to not understand reality?
Originally posted by MrReality Well op you and many others I am sure are feeling that way. For you personally you aren't getting your money's worth and there is nothing wrong with feeling that way. As a customer you should always get your moeny's worth. I'm just shocked at ArenaNet that they spent so much time on this game just for a lot to be disappointed. I guess maybe they should have done in a different direction. Hope you find the mmo you are looking for soon!
So let me see if I understand. They should have went in a different direction? Your claim there ignores all the people who are enjoying the game as is. Which sure as hell seems to be a LOT more than are unhappy. Yeah that made sense.
Of course a lot will be disappointed, that happens with any product. Some love it, some hate it, some fall inbetween.
Let me introduce you to World of Tanks. It may or may not be your style of game but its popularity and playerbase world wide cant be denied and its free to play.
Forget major games released F2P and look at the major ones moving to free to play after learning they could not survive as subscription based. Or are you just pretending at this point to not understand reality?
world of tanks is an MMORPG? So games that fail or games that are passed their prime go to f2p to try to get some extra money, most of the games retain the sub model anyway. But its silly to suggest that these games failed because of the sub model (with the possible exception of DCUO because of the console market)
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I think people who say this REALLY need to look at Traits more than anything else.
There are a lot of trait builds that fundamentally change how you'd play your class. That's where a lot of the meat of leveling and build complexity is. They combine with weapon and other skills in a lot of ways while still leaving a lot of possibilities.
People have been saying that for at least 3 years now. There are still sub-based games around, and new ones are or have been released that still have them.
They'll still be saying it 3 years from now.
And then 3 years after that.
Subscriptions are the ideal payment method for certain MMOs based on the way they're designed.
Just like F2P/Cash shops are the ideal setup for MMOs designed around that idea.
Just like B2P is the same way.
F2P is "the new craze". B2P+Cash Shop (the GW2 model) is just another alternative.
Subs aren't going anywhere. Just get over it already.
Well, Subs are ideal for the company. It is easier to keep people paying subs than to keep them buying new products. A lot less work and a lot more profit. I don't really see how it serves the consumer well at all.
I keep trying to explain this to people, but seems like a lot dont get it. Just as an example with a ranger build that i can create, here are things Ill have at 80 tha I didnt have at lower level:
Stat increases:
300 Power
30% Condition duration
300 Precision
30% Critical damage
100 Vitality
10% Boon duration
Skills / effects:
Opening Strike - Cause vulnerability with 1st strike when entering combat
Damage increased by 10% when Endurance is full
Pets have Opening Strike
All arrow attacks pierce targets
Opening STrike always critical hits
Increase Precision of nearby allies by 70 points
Gain swiftness when swapping weapons in combat
Critical hits grant Might to your pets
Gain Fury when swapping weapons in combat
Bow skills recharge 20% faster
Deal 10% more damage while flanking (behind or to the side of enemy)
Conditions caused by traps last twice as long and traps recharge 20% faster
Gain Regen when your health reaches 75%
Regeneration you apply last 33% longer
This doesnt even account for Utility & Elite Skills, or customizing my character further through Rune & Sigil use.
Runes & Sigils are another huge factor for building your character to server different purposes. For example on my Ranger right now im running a Rune that adds +5 Power for each kill, up to 25 stacks. So when fully charged Ive got a bonus +125 power. This is just with a low level rune. There are better versions of it that add even more. Theres also runes that increase other stats, increase duration of effects, add procs such as fire AoEs, lightning strikes, etc, Health stealing effects, increased damage vs certain enemies, increased damage vs people who you stun/knockdown/daze.... a huge list of varied effects depending on how you upgrade your gear, way too many for me to go through on a list here.
Out of the two of us, you're the one who sounds like you came from WoW. I never played wow for more than a month. I've been playing MMOs since EQ and would stake more claim to Rift than any other recent mmo. Learn how to talk with adults sweety.
"God, please help us sinful children of Ivalice.."
Yes there are still sub based games. That alone does not make what I said false. The fact you have premier titles going from sub based to some form of free to play is proof that what I said has a better chance of happening then your claims of it being a craze or a fad. Even games designed for subscriptions have gone away from it. The F2P simply gets your product more exposure. Personally I hate the F2P model as it attracts the lowest common denominators to the game and in general forms a horrible community. But as a business plan it makes more money for the average MMO. Not every game can be WoW when it comes to playerbase.
The number of games being released with a subscription format for pay is tiny compared to just 5 years ago.
The fact is subs are going away. Soon enough almost no new game will open with that payment method. Saying anything else is just ignorance of the market.
What trait set up will you have to achieve this? I am at level 20 on my Ranger and would like to look at what your layout will be. PM if you dont want to have it in public, if you dont mind of course.
Again, never a big WoW fan. Look up years of past posts on here and you'll see that. Why is that the standard insult? My people (EQ, UO, DAoC) created that inslut, at least identify correctly who to toss it at.
"God, please help us sinful children of Ivalice.."
This is just something that has to be this or that. There's a whole lot of people who whines in other games that the PvP (and end game) is a huge gear grind and they dont like it.
I belong more or less to that lot, and I really dont like the gear grind mode since the gear is not anykind of "real reward" like many are being led to believe. How is it "real" when you are supposed to replace it untill the world's end? You never really get anything good that does not get replaced soon. Anyway, some people like that, and some does not, finally an alternative for a gear grind so it should be nice that there's some variety now.
About the class skills, I kind of agree with everything coming too fast, I was around lvl15-20 when I started to feel like my char is kind of "unlocked" and it gave me a brief "meh" feeling. I just kept going since I love the world and the sense of discovery it gives me, and I realized that after the initial shock this "fast ability gain" system is better in some ways.
A common whine with mmorpgs is "why do I have to wait till high levels to start enjoying the game?" which can mean several things. Like epic encounters, or then there's the class unlocks like abilities and talents. You get abilities fast in GW2 which means you can very fast start playing your char like you want to, and not wait for days or weeks to unlock that potentially nice and cool ability. The filler abilities are basically gone and I dont really miss them just to get something useless along the ding.
There's still the trait points coming in untill the max level which give quite a lot customization to your char. Also, you basically need to level if you enjoy WvW since your char is so much worse at low levels even with the scaling up to 80 when you are short a ton of trait points and stats.
Then there's other things, like gaining stuff to get your appearance right, collecting sigils and other higher level customization stuff, getting achievements, puzzles etc. I'm pretty occupied and having a lot of fun after some adaptation about certain things
But yeah, it is what it is, mostly design choises, not flaws imo.
Traits were the one thing I had left I really wanted to investigate. I am huge on class customization and you guys who spoke of the traits definitely helped keep me motivated to play a bit more.
In general you can complain simply because you don't like the game or suggest what you want and claim that GW2 is something new and different. But my point at the begining is that if I'm bored to tears at level 9 I shouldn't have to labor through to find things that make the game personally rewarding and fun.
I am definitely going to give the traits a look. I am thankful for those of you who offered polite suggestions and encouragement rather than outright childishly deny anything that could ever be said negative about GW2.
"God, please help us sinful children of Ivalice.."
Thank you for this post, it was very helpful and encouraging!
"God, please help us sinful children of Ivalice.."
I think this is inevtable as well. When choosing between games with a sub fee and those without, there's a lot of incentive for a customer to choose one without. Since sub fees don't seem to add much of anything to the game and certainly aren't necessary, it stands to reason that eventually companies would compete by not using subs. Once that starts, more and more companies will go that route since it is easier than trying to mimic WoW's success.
And lets' be honest, the only reason they go after subs is because most vast majority of a sub is pure, sweet profit. There are B2P games with free online multi-player, great support indefinitely, updates, etc. Heck, just look at Diablo II for an example from Blizzard, they even added content for free.
Just curious, but what class are you playing? I'm sure we could help out with your investigations.
I have always been a healer and played healer classes so I've got a water ele. But I've had more fun with the mesmer in staff skillset.
"God, please help us sinful children of Ivalice.."
Thats not actually the build Ill end up with most likely. That was just quickly throwing point sinto the calculator to show an example of the difference between low level and max level. You can play around with builds here: http://www.gw2db.com/skills/calc/ranger
Also if you want to test out your builds theres something many dont realize. Go into the sPvP area / Heart of The Mists. You can do this by pressing H, clicking the PvP tab ont he left side, and clicking the option to go there.
In the Heart of the Mists youll be boosted to 80, have all Utility / Elite Skills unlock, and 70 Trait points which you can freely reset and spend. So you can test out ways you would like to build.
In that area there is also a weapon selling NPC named PVP Items (Weaponsmith) who sells real weapons but also has a tab on the left for "Steady Weapons". Steady weapons are low damage weapons with no attack range. What that means is their min and max damage is the same, no gap between them, so those weapons will always hit for the same amount instead of getting highs and lows.
You can grab one of those weapons, play with your traits / skills, and then test it out on the dummies to get a steady comparison of damage with various builds and really figure ut how to be the most effective at different things.
Edit: In that skill calculator, there is also an Equipment tab that lets you play around with stuff like having different runes equipped to compare stats with different runes.
I didn't ask you, but ok.. I can see how some people would miss those features. I just want to reiterate a point I've tried making here several times - ie: why, if an MMO does not have these "standard" features, is it less complete? Are you really saying every game should have every feature that you feel is standard? I think that would get boring. Oh wait, it did, and it even has a name. It's called 2006-2012.
Also, I doubt you could name a dozen more features the game is missing.
As for the rest of you, be nice to the OP. I had to get to level 15 with my warrior before I really felt like it fit, and frankly the starter zones are waaaay more boring than the second and third leveling areas.
If every game had the same features then we would hear how no one tries anything new.
There has been a grand total of ONE major MMO thats ever in the history of the genre released without a sub, and it was b2p. So I have no clue what you are talking about.. Are there lots of awful f2p games being released? yes, yes there are. We are stll waiting on the first high quality f2p release. And I think we will be waiting a while.
WTF?????????????????
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
I understand where you're coming from, OP.
Personally, the only reason I'm enjoying is because I play with no goal in mind. I mostly do sPVP and occassionally queue up for WvWvW with my friends, but when I feel like PVEing I just aimlessly walk around and explore what to do.
At level 80, I'll have the advantage of stat increase/versatility with top end exotic armor and runes coupled with traits. They are valuable to have an edge, but aren't completely necessary when you are just 1 of many in a group. For that reason, I do not see much necessity in getting to 80 as fast (at least, relative to other games and elitist guild where this is an absolute must). Basically, I just tend to go off and explore and know that one day I'll be level 80.
Along the way, I'll be PvPing any way. Really, just enjoy the game. Don't even try to love the game - just go along with it. Socialize, talk in guild, talk in teamspeak/vent/mumble, talk in map chat, help the server. That laid back attitude was made for this game. Eventually, when things will get heated up in WvWvW - you'd be glad to know you got the server you played with while leveling to support you.
Let me introduce you to World of Tanks. It may or may not be your style of game but its popularity and playerbase world wide cant be denied and its free to play.
Forget major games released F2P and look at the major ones moving to free to play after learning they could not survive as subscription based. Or are you just pretending at this point to not understand reality?
Am I missing something here? Yes your skills may be maxed out but you know there are traits and skill points to spend right?
My biggest problem is trying to work out the build for my character. I am level 27 now and no where near finishing traits etc.
So let me see if I understand. They should have went in a different direction? Your claim there ignores all the people who are enjoying the game as is. Which sure as hell seems to be a LOT more than are unhappy. Yeah that made sense.
Of course a lot will be disappointed, that happens with any product. Some love it, some hate it, some fall inbetween.
world of tanks is an MMORPG? So games that fail or games that are passed their prime go to f2p to try to get some extra money, most of the games retain the sub model anyway. But its silly to suggest that these games failed because of the sub model (with the possible exception of DCUO because of the console market)