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MMOs need Vanguard-sized worlds...

24

Comments

  • DewmDewm Soldotna, AKPosts: 1,341Member
    Originally posted by donjn
    A empty big world is not fun to me.

    Bingo! I swear every now and then we get some Vanguard love posts in here. I don't get it. The world was huge, but mostly empty. The graphical style was much like EQ2 in that the colors had a muddy tone.  And because a lot of caves and some dungeons had no loading zones, sometimes your framerate would be worse underground then it would be outside, because the engine continued to draw the outside world too.

    It was buggy, doors would appear and dissapear, minning nodes were bugged, etc.. And this is when In tried it out a couple years ago, long after release..

    Vanguard had it's time. It was  failure and always will be.

     

     

     

    Played it for around a year back in 09?.. something like that..

     

    And yes the muddy colors almost killed it for me,... but I never ran into any glitches that I can remember. And the game world was anything but empty. I honestly think if it had better color/graphics, and a few more people I would probably be playing it to this day.

    Please check out my channel. I do gaming reviews, gaming related reviews & lets plays. Thanks!

  • BadaboomBadaboom Moose Jaw, SKPosts: 2,380Member
    The water in vanguard was about the worst in am mmo that I have ever seen. The trees are the best though.
  • eAzydamaneAzydaman UmeaPosts: 218Member

    Noone mentions Fallen earth? That world was crazy, even with a car or bike it took FOREVER to get around between towns.

    DAOC was pretty big too, remember I took the horse from camelot to lyonesse and went for a damn coffee break. Took like 10 minutes if I recall correctly.

  • xDayxxDayx St Charles, MOPosts: 712Member
    I love huge worlds, currently playing Vanguard. Darkfall was awesome at this also.
  • TamanousTamanous Edmonton, ABPosts: 2,125Member Uncommon

    I feel the same but for me it all started with Asheron's Call. It was a HUGE open world with over 300 dungeons. The only mmo I am playing atm is Lotro because it at least has a sliver of large world feel desite being a traditional mmo clone (having multiple ways to level is what makes it nice not just one single zone for XX level range). I like Vanguard actually but it simply does not have enough players in it nor do any of my rl friends play it.

     

    The next great mmo (for the old school mmo crowd) will be a non-instanced, non-hub huge open world where every aspect of the game lives within it's maps (pve and pvp). If games like small zoned, uber-hub driven Rift continue to be made I may just quit mmo's forever. Even GW2 failed me due to making pvp and pve entirely seperate and pve being too heavily focused on combat. Hopefully Archeage takes off and if too Korean in style at least have NA/EU developers jump on board and make a AAA Vanguard/Archeage style game.

    You stay sassy!

  • donjndonjn Valencia, CAPosts: 769Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Senkensha
    Originally posted by Mawnee

    The game you are looking for is Archeage. It is the game that we all wanted Vanguard to be.

     

    http://i410.photobucket.com/albums/pp183/Wizardcomputers/ScreenShot0030.jpg

    And more, if they live up to expectations.

    Nice use of Depth of Field and good color contrast, I am impressed.

  • BadaboomBadaboom Moose Jaw, SKPosts: 2,380Member
    Darkfall was awesome. Much better world than Vanguards.
  • TibernicusTibernicus Fall River, MAPosts: 433Member
    Originally posted by donjn
    But oh yeah, totally muddy colors

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0p6TrEPSr50

    Yes it looks muddy to me.

    Then turn up your contrast, problem solved.

     

    Also the screenshot you took was in the middle of a cloudy day turning into a rain storm...

    Seriously, turn your contrast to 60 percent and the colors are super vibrant.

  • KraylorKraylor Chandler, AZPosts: 94Member
    Huge seamless worlds where pve and pvp are all contained within that open world and not instanced are games that I will always be on the lookout for.  With The Repopulation and Archage coming, I hope that some of us can call those home.

    Waiting on: The Repopulation

  • TamanousTamanous Edmonton, ABPosts: 2,125Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by donjn
    Originally posted by Senkensha
    Originally posted by Mawnee

    The game you are looking for is Archeage. It is the game that we all wanted Vanguard to be.

     

    http://i410.photobucket.com/albums/pp183/Wizardcomputers/ScreenShot0030.jpg

    And more, if they live up to expectations.

    Nice use of Depth of Field and good color contrast, I am impressed.

    The only issue with Archeage related to all this is that the world is much smaller overall than you may think (nowhere near the size of Vanguard from what I heard). The fact it is seemeless with open ocean you can traverse may help make it feel larger so hopefully that is the case.

     

    Archeage engine got some nice upgrades on it's last build. It is looking very nice and I expect it to look even better upon release.

    You stay sassy!

  • AkulasAkulas GoldcoastPosts: 1,616Member Uncommon
    Took me 20 mins to swim to a sea portal then realised I couldn't enter it anyways. 20 minute swim back.

    This isn't a signature, you just think it is.

  • UtukuMoonUtukuMoon ParisPosts: 1,066Member
    Originally posted by Mawnee

    The game you are looking for is Archeage. It is the game that we all wanted Vanguard to be.

     

    http://i410.photobucket.com/albums/pp183/Wizardcomputers/ScreenShot0030.jpg

    Yeah,an Hybrid MMO like Vanguard,hybrid is the way of the future me thinks.

    Problem is that it's been confirmed that it will be late 2013 even 2014 until we get a sniff of AA.On top of that it will be westernised,gods knows how far away from the Asian version we will get.

     

    CryEngine 3 is sweet.

  • TibernicusTibernicus Fall River, MAPosts: 433Member
    Originally posted by xDayx
    I love huge worlds, currently playing Vanguard. Darkfall was awesome at this also.

    Yup, Darkfall also has a fantastic world.

    dark Age of Camelot too. Massive. But devs don't make virtual worlds anymore.

     

     

  • TibernicusTibernicus Fall River, MAPosts: 433Member
    Originally posted by emperorwings
    Took me 20 mins to swim to a sea portal then realised I couldn't enter it anyways. 20 minute swim back.

    Good lord why would you do that. There's a boat man!

  • laseritlaserit Vancouver, BCPosts: 1,942Member Uncommon

    I'm also a big fan of huge open worlds

    I'm no programmer and I've always wondered that there must be some sort of trade off's for making zoned games and open worlds. GW2 is absolutley beautifull visually and it plays so smooth. It would be a dream to have that quality in a huge open world ala Vanguard.

    We know that budget's havnt been the issue, there must be technical limitations that have not been overcome yet.

    "If you make an ass out of yourself, there will always be someone to ride you." - Bruce Lee

  • TamanousTamanous Edmonton, ABPosts: 2,125Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Sylvarii
    Originally posted by Mawnee

    The game you are looking for is Archeage. It is the game that we all wanted Vanguard to be.

     

    http://i410.photobucket.com/albums/pp183/Wizardcomputers/ScreenShot0030.jpg

    Yeah,an Hybrid MMO like Vanguard,hybrid is the way of the future me thinks.

    Problem is that it's been confirmed that it will be late 2013 even 2014 until we get a sniff of AA.On top of that it will be westernised,gods knows how far away from the Asian version we will get.

     

    CryEngine 3 is sweet.

    My fear is that the western release will be like many others and be several patch builds behind Korea and worst of all have most of the local developement time filled by the distributor tweaking their cash store to juice as much cash out of you while playing it.

     

    Let's hope the developer manages to self-publish.

    You stay sassy!

  • SenkenshaSenkensha Mountain View, CAPosts: 14Member

    Wow.  Lots of Dark Age love.  I put 8 years into that game, and quite honestly, is the mmo to have turned me on to mmo's.  

     

     The one thing I do have the utmost respect for is the fact that Arenanet at least paid attention to making sure there was a wide variety of what to do.  I log in, and from there I can craft, I can wvw, I can sPvP, I can explore, grab some vistas, go gathering.  Group or solo, rain or shine, it doesn't matter.

     

    I guess the things that DAoC had, or that Vanguard even had, or EQ1 / UO / Whatever mmo you came from had, was that they had the initimidating scare-the-living-hell-out-of-you areas that you would traverse even thoiugh you were SOOOO not supposed to be there.  And you actually got nervous, maybe a bit heated, or even scared.

     

    Now we see mmo's that have these short open and close windows and shooting for a more short lived approach at things.  I don't want a game that targets me for 6 monthes.  I want to be immersed.

  • TibernicusTibernicus Fall River, MAPosts: 433Member
    Originally posted by laserit

    I'm also a big fan of huge open worlds

    I'm no programmer and I've always wondered that there must be some sort of trade off's for making zoned games and open worlds. GW2 is absolutley beautifull visually and it plays so smooth. It would be a dream to have that quality in a huge open world ala Vanguard.

    We know that budget's havnt been the issue, there must be technical limitations that have not been overcome yet.

    It has nothing to do with tech limits. Asheron's call did it in 1999, with a shoestring budget and a small team. Darkfall did it with 20 devs and under a million dollars. It's just about finding the better designers.

  • TibernicusTibernicus Fall River, MAPosts: 433Member
    Originally posted by Senkensha

    Wow.  Lots of Dark Age love.  I put 8 years into that game, and quite honestly, is the mmo to have turned me on to mmo's.  

     

     The one thing I do have the utmost respect for is the fact that Arenanet at least paid attention to making sure there was a wide variety of what to do.  I log in, and from there I can craft, I can wvw, I can sPvP, I can explore, grab some vistas, go gathering.  Group or solo, rain or shine, it doesn't matter.

     

    I guess the things that DAoC had, or that Vanguard even had, or EQ1 / UO / Whatever mmo you came from had, was that they had the initimidating scare-the-living-hell-out-of-you areas that you would traverse even thoiugh you were SOOOO not supposed to be there.  And you actually got nervous, maybe a bit heated, or even scared.

     

    Now we see mmo's that have these short open and close windows and shooting for a more short lived approach at things.  I don't want a game that targets me for 6 monthes.  I want to be immersed.

    Sadly, modern  MMOs are afraid to let their players fail. Evidence is how insanely easy GW2 is, and how, if you die, nothing bad happens. And everything scales too.

  • laseritlaserit Vancouver, BCPosts: 1,942Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Tibernicus
    Originally posted by Senkensha

    Wow.  Lots of Dark Age love.  I put 8 years into that game, and quite honestly, is the mmo to have turned me on to mmo's.  

     

     The one thing I do have the utmost respect for is the fact that Arenanet at least paid attention to making sure there was a wide variety of what to do.  I log in, and from there I can craft, I can wvw, I can sPvP, I can explore, grab some vistas, go gathering.  Group or solo, rain or shine, it doesn't matter.

     

    I guess the things that DAoC had, or that Vanguard even had, or EQ1 / UO / Whatever mmo you came from had, was that they had the initimidating scare-the-living-hell-out-of-you areas that you would traverse even thoiugh you were SOOOO not supposed to be there.  And you actually got nervous, maybe a bit heated, or even scared.

     

    Now we see mmo's that have these short open and close windows and shooting for a more short lived approach at things.  I don't want a game that targets me for 6 monthes.  I want to be immersed.

    Sadly, modern  MMOs are afraid to make their players fail. Evidence is how insanely easy GW2 is, and how, if you die, nothing bad happens. And everything scales too.

    There is a difficult balance point when it comes to that, if you want to be commercialy successful. I'm surprised that no one (expecialy Blizzard) hasnt come up with different server's of various skill level's yet.

    I WoW was a lot more difficult in the leveling game, I would probably play again.

    I also dont mind having to try 20 times to be successful with an ecounter if thats what it takes, but there is a line where certain types of penalties can just be to much of a time sink  pain in the ass.

    "If you make an ass out of yourself, there will always be someone to ride you." - Bruce Lee

  • SenkenshaSenkensha Mountain View, CAPosts: 14Member
    Originally posted by laserit
    Originally posted by Tibernicus
    Originally posted by Senkensha

    Wow.  Lots of Dark Age love.  I put 8 years into that game, and quite honestly, is the mmo to have turned me on to mmo's.  

     

     The one thing I do have the utmost respect for is the fact that Arenanet at least paid attention to making sure there was a wide variety of what to do.  I log in, and from there I can craft, I can wvw, I can sPvP, I can explore, grab some vistas, go gathering.  Group or solo, rain or shine, it doesn't matter.

     

    I guess the things that DAoC had, or that Vanguard even had, or EQ1 / UO / Whatever mmo you came from had, was that they had the initimidating scare-the-living-hell-out-of-you areas that you would traverse even thoiugh you were SOOOO not supposed to be there.  And you actually got nervous, maybe a bit heated, or even scared.

     

    Now we see mmo's that have these short open and close windows and shooting for a more short lived approach at things.  I don't want a game that targets me for 6 monthes.  I want to be immersed.

    Sadly, modern  MMOs are afraid to make their players fail. Evidence is how insanely easy GW2 is, and how, if you die, nothing bad happens. And everything scales too.

    There is a difficult balance point when it comes to that, if you want to be commercialy successful. I'm surprised that no one (expecialy Blizzard) hasnt come up with different server's of various skill level's yet.

    I WoW was a lot more difficult in the leveling game, I would probably play again.

    I also dont mind having to try 20 times to be successful with an ecounter if thats what it takes, but there is a line where certain types of penalties can just be to much of a time sink  pain in the ass.

    See, this confuses me because when I played dark age, I quite enjoyed the xp loss on death.  It's not that I actually enjoy losing progress, but that I enjoy the idea that I need to be careful and take care, and that I should stick with friends when need be.

     

    I do NOT like the "an hero" philosophy of modern mmo's (not all; as a generalization).  But to reiterate, I also understand that everyone's different which is why I believe in games focusing on their targets.  Stick to your guns, have a vision and make something beautiful (and hopefully that I want to play).

     

    @Tibernicus It's a sad truth.

  • tank017tank017 Glendale, CAPosts: 2,192Member
    If todays mmos had the land mass of vanguard id like them a helluva lot more, that's for sure.
  • TibernicusTibernicus Fall River, MAPosts: 433Member
    Originally posted by Senkensha
    Originally posted by laserit
    Originally posted by Tibernicus
    Originally posted by Senkensha

    Wow.  Lots of Dark Age love.  I put 8 years into that game, and quite honestly, is the mmo to have turned me on to mmo's.  

     

     The one thing I do have the utmost respect for is the fact that Arenanet at least paid attention to making sure there was a wide variety of what to do.  I log in, and from there I can craft, I can wvw, I can sPvP, I can explore, grab some vistas, go gathering.  Group or solo, rain or shine, it doesn't matter.

     

    I guess the things that DAoC had, or that Vanguard even had, or EQ1 / UO / Whatever mmo you came from had, was that they had the initimidating scare-the-living-hell-out-of-you areas that you would traverse even thoiugh you were SOOOO not supposed to be there.  And you actually got nervous, maybe a bit heated, or even scared.

     

    Now we see mmo's that have these short open and close windows and shooting for a more short lived approach at things.  I don't want a game that targets me for 6 monthes.  I want to be immersed.

    Sadly, modern  MMOs are afraid to make their players fail. Evidence is how insanely easy GW2 is, and how, if you die, nothing bad happens. And everything scales too.

    There is a difficult balance point when it comes to that, if you want to be commercialy successful. I'm surprised that no one (expecialy Blizzard) hasnt come up with different server's of various skill level's yet.

    I WoW was a lot more difficult in the leveling game, I would probably play again.

    I also dont mind having to try 20 times to be successful with an ecounter if thats what it takes, but there is a line where certain types of penalties can just be to much of a time sink  pain in the ass.

    See, this confuses me because when I played dark age, I quite enjoyed the xp loss on death.  It's not that I actually enjoy losing progress, but that I enjoy the idea that I need to be careful and take care, and that I should stick with friends when need be.

     

    I do NOT like the "an hero" philosophy of modern mmo's (not all; as a generalization).  But to reiterate, I also understand that everyone's different which is why I believe in games focusing on their targets.  Stick to your guns, have a vision and make something beautiful (and hopefully that I want to play).

     

    @Tibernicus It's a sad truth.

    Death penalties are absolutely necessary to making a long lasting impression, for me, in an MMO. They suck you in and make you believe the world.

  • MawneeMawnee Spring Hill, FLPosts: 197Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Tamanous
    Originally posted by donjn
    Originally posted by Senkensha
    Originally posted by Mawnee

    The game you are looking for is Archeage. It is the game that we all wanted Vanguard to be.

     

    http://i410.photobucket.com/albums/pp183/Wizardcomputers/ScreenShot0030.jpg

    And more, if they live up to expectations.

    Nice use of Depth of Field and good color contrast, I am impressed.

    The only issue with Archeage related to all this is that the world is much smaller overall than you may think (nowhere near the size of Vanguard from what I heard). The fact it is seemeless with open ocean you can traverse may help make it feel larger so hopefully that is the case.

     

    Archeage engine got some nice upgrades on it's last build. It is looking very nice and I expect it to look even better upon release.

    You heard wrong :) Please note my username and the playername in the screenshot. The continents as they currently are ARE at least as big as the VG ones. Supposedly there is more they havent unlocked yet(along with the two races).

    And yea, one of my last days in the most recent Beta I rowed my little rowboat from one continent to the PVP one. Took something like 45 minutes. It was exciting with some of the high level monsters in the water.....I was level 13 =P

  • SovrathSovrath Boston Area, MAPosts: 18,453Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by donjn
    A empty big world is not fun to me.

    Bingo! I swear every now and then we get some Vanguard love posts in here. I don't get it. The world was huge, but mostly empty. The graphical style was much like EQ2 in that the colors had a muddy tone.  And because a lot of caves and some dungeons had no loading zones, sometimes your framerate would be worse underground then it would be outside, because the engine continued to draw the outside world too.

    It was buggy, doors would appear and dissapear, minning nodes were bugged, etc.. And this is when In tried it out a couple years ago, long after release..

    Vanguard had it's time. It was  failure and always will be.

     

    It's not empty it's just a world.

    It feels more like a world becasue there isn't a mob to kill every 15 feet. one of the worst things about lotro.

    I'll take a vanguard size world any day. And double it!

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