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PvE "endgame" dungeons explanation...

dzoni87dzoni87 BelgradePosts: 541Member

Hello everyone and greetings...

  Like i mentioned before, i dont want to talk more about Orr and all of that stuff because i didnt made it there yet, for i am not 80 yet. What i want to talk about are 5 men dungeons.

  Many on these forum discussed if GW2 have PvE endgame at all. the point of speculation was if there is something to do when one hit maximum level (which is pretty easy achievement here, it seems). Many said that how hitting level 80 is pieece of cake and that made the game pointless. Others said, in other hand, how the "whole game is endgame", which is not true also. BUT...

  Endgame actually starts somewhere in-between 30-40 level. How come? Well, at that period you will get your first dungeon modes unlocked, Ascalonian Catacombs that is... As you level up, for every 5 levels, new dungeon/dungeon mode unlocks. Finally, when you hit level 80, you got access to all possible dungeon modes and thanks to downscalling system, you will never outlevel dungeon content. And now here is the key difference between GW2 and earlier themepark MMORPGs

All PVE dungeon content is unlocked to you right away, and you dont have restricted access because of not having proper gear.

  Ok, now, this have many things left for speculations. Like, what is the point then to farm gear? Why should i do the dungeons if i can access them all? Why would i waste time anyway on something not even needed?

Well, to get to my point more i need to explain how gear works. Take a good look at these pieces of gear. you can find them at dungeon vendors in LA:

     

  Take a better look at the armor sets. First one gives a condition damage bonuses and stuff, while the other one gives Healing bonuses and whatnot. What are special to these armor sets? Why bother to get them at all if dungeons are doable without them anyway? Well, while technically this is the truth, these mechanics from the sets are rather mechanics that fits to whatever playstyle you choose. Now, here's the thing:

a) Lets say, i want to play Elementalist with Fire/Water specialization. I want to go with healings and whatnot. But what if i dedicate myself to healing and my damage becomes low, what could i do in order to balance my damage and healing output? Well, who plays Elementalist, knows that Fire is based on condition Damage. So, in order to balance things more between DMG and Heal, i will collect first armor set from the picture.

b) I want to make an Water-based Elementalist that is dedicated to healings more because i love playing with healer. Ok, the things cannot be easier. I will dedicate myself to healing and i want to max out healing powers as much as i can (eventough that is not neccessary, but i like playing healer). So, the second set is what i need.

  Now, back to the main point, now when we know better about the gear. Each of these to items belong to the set that is purchased with the token rewards from the two different dungeons' Exploration modes. Of the one dungeon runs, you will get about 10 of tokens. However each one of these parts of set cost somewhere in-between 180 - 300 of tokens. So, you will need about 20 - 30 dungeon runs approx. for one part of gear.

  But is this turning the GW2 into another Gear Threadmill? Well, i definatelly can say that it doesnt. Why? Because all the dungeon content is available to you once you hit 80 level, or even before. And, these dungeons are doable without this armor sets anyway. However...

  These armor sets will actually help you balance your build better, instead of being the "key" to higher tier dungeon, which is non-existant here. It is all still based on how you perform with your playstyle, but these things really helps and are not just the fluff like the people were worried about. Look at them like at the additional trait points or whatnot. And thanks to downscalling system, this gear is in no way obsolete, regardless of "Required level".

  This would be it. I made this topic to explain more to the people that were worried or on the fence because of "what to hold my attention when i hit 80 and vertical gear progression is not there?". There shouldn't be any. You can do any  dungeon at your leasure, like i mentioned before. And yes, with this system, PvE endgame actually begins on 35 level, once the Ascalonian Catacombs exploration mode unlocks.

I hope this will help and to see you in game.

Main MMO at the moment: Guild Wars 2
Waiting for: Pathfinder Online

Comments

  • nsignificnsignific ljPosts: 212Member

    Okay, but WHY would you need to balance your toon better?

     

    Things like that need a purpose. Is it really balanced, if it's not used anywhere? Does it just make stuff you've already done easier? That's horrible.

     

    You didn't really answer the question there. If it's just a quest to min/max your character, than that's the same sort of endgame Diablo 3 has. I don't really mind that, but is that really all there is?

  • Requiem1066Requiem1066 londonPosts: 274Member
    Originally posted by dzoni87

     

     

      Now, back to the main point, now when we know better about the gear. Each of these to items belong to the set that is purchased with the token rewards from the two different dungeons' Exploration modes. Of the one dungeon runs, you will get about 10 of tokens. However each one of these parts of set cost somewhere in-between 180 - 300 of tokens. So, you will need about 20 - 30 dungeon runs approx. for one part of gear.

      

     

    I haven't done the dungeons yet so this is a serious question and not an intended troll ...

     

    Do the token rewards come from every level dungeon ?

    So at lvl 80 I could downscale to the lvl 30 dungeons and earn tokens for lvl 80 gear for example ?

     

     

    image

  • grapevinegrapevine PeterboroughPosts: 1,927Member
    That's because they do have a use, and it makes things easier with better gear.  It is also a lot easier when you have people geared (and spec'ed) towards the trinity.  Which means one's likely to progress more.
  • vee41vee41 TamperePosts: 191Member
    Nightmare Pants Of the Nightmare. Am I only one who laughed out loud? :)
  • dzoni87dzoni87 BelgradePosts: 541Member
    Originally posted by nsignific

    Okay, but WHY would you need to balance your toon better?

     

    Things like that need a purpose. Is it really balanced, if it's not used anywhere? Does it just make stuff you've already done easier? That's horrible.

     

    You didn't really answer the question there. If it's just a quest to min/max your character, than that's the same sort of endgame Diablo 3 has. I don't really mind that, but is that really all there is?

    No, it doesnt make any of things easier. But is it really of any help? Yes it is. However it doesn't really Min-max the things in a way it is doing in Diablo III. That system is horrible to anything i played so far.

    Main MMO at the moment: Guild Wars 2
    Waiting for: Pathfinder Online

  • dzoni87dzoni87 BelgradePosts: 541Member
    Originally posted by Requiem1066
    Originally posted by dzoni87

     

     

      Now, back to the main point, now when we know better about the gear. Each of these to items belong to the set that is purchased with the token rewards from the two different dungeons' Exploration modes. Of the one dungeon runs, you will get about 10 of tokens. However each one of these parts of set cost somewhere in-between 180 - 300 of tokens. So, you will need about 20 - 30 dungeon runs approx. for one part of gear.

      

     

    I haven't done the dungeons yet so this is a serious question and not an intended troll ...

     

    Do the token rewards come from every level dungeon ?

    So at lvl 80 I could downscale to the lvl 30 dungeons and earn tokens for lvl 80 gear for example ?

     

     

    Token rewards are specific to one's dungeon exploration mode...

    And gear requred level varies. Which is again irrelevant once you hit 80 level.

    Main MMO at the moment: Guild Wars 2
    Waiting for: Pathfinder Online

  • grapevinegrapevine PeterboroughPosts: 1,927Member
    Originally posted by dzoni87
    Originally posted by nsignific

    Okay, but WHY would you need to balance your toon better?

     

    Things like that need a purpose. Is it really balanced, if it's not used anywhere? Does it just make stuff you've already done easier? That's horrible.

     

    You didn't really answer the question there. If it's just a quest to min/max your character, than that's the same sort of endgame Diablo 3 has. I don't really mind that, but is that really all there is?

    No, it doesnt make any of things easier. But is it really of any help? Yes it is. However it doesn't really Min-max the things in a way it is doing in Diablo III. That system is horrible to anything i played so far.

     

    Sorry that is just wrong.  I was in a dungeon just last night, and it was very apparent who had spec'ed and geared into a roll.  As they could survive much longer, and we're able to assist more.    That in itself makes things easier.   The problem at the moment are the weak links, ie those who haven't specialised their gear to their build.

     

  • jjdejong0jjdejong0 SalePosts: 25Member

    Doing very little, getting rewarded and feeling like i have achieved something. Isnt that the American Dream?

     

    I love guild wars 2 , not had this much fun since vanilla wow, what i like about gw2 is that i can go and do pretty much anything i want. Theres no linear path i have to follow, no gearscore to determine if i can come to a raid, no grinding a raid 1000 times for gear only to move on to another raid and do the same thing again. Everything you want is in this game, but does it force you to do any of it? NO!

     

    like others have said, instead of coming on here and making a retarded post like this maybe you should use some of your hard earned time and energy to try and find a game that is better suited to your needs.

  • Requiem1066Requiem1066 londonPosts: 274Member
    Originally posted by dzoni87
    Originally posted by Requiem1066
    Originally posted by dzoni87

     

     

      Now, back to the main point, now when we know better about the gear. Each of these to items belong to the set that is purchased with the token rewards from the two different dungeons' Exploration modes. Of the one dungeon runs, you will get about 10 of tokens. However each one of these parts of set cost somewhere in-between 180 - 300 of tokens. So, you will need about 20 - 30 dungeon runs approx. for one part of gear.

      

     

    I haven't done the dungeons yet so this is a serious question and not an intended troll ...

     

    Do the token rewards come from every level dungeon ?

    So at lvl 80 I could downscale to the lvl 30 dungeons and earn tokens for lvl 80 gear for example ?

     

     

    Token rewards are specific to one's dungeon exploration mode...

    And gear requred level varies. Which is again irrelevant once you hit 80 level.

    Ok ty :) .. Just wanted to clarify that before my next question.

    You make a point that at lvl 80 the endgame content increases because you can go back and run previous dungeons ( like you can in anygame ) but outside of helping/fun .. what is the point in running a lvl 30/40/50 dungeon at lvl 80 ? 

    Personally i think they missed a trick .. the downscale the players, but they should have had the option to also upscale the dungeons ( RE: Lotro skirmish's ) .. So at lvl 80 you could run the lvl 30 dungeon again but on lvl 80 difficulty with lvl 80 rewards 

    image

  • dzoni87dzoni87 BelgradePosts: 541Member
    Originally posted by grapevine
    Originally posted by dzoni87
    Originally posted by nsignific

    Okay, but WHY would you need to balance your toon better?

     

    Things like that need a purpose. Is it really balanced, if it's not used anywhere? Does it just make stuff you've already done easier? That's horrible.

     

    You didn't really answer the question there. If it's just a quest to min/max your character, than that's the same sort of endgame Diablo 3 has. I don't really mind that, but is that really all there is?

    No, it doesnt make any of things easier. But is it really of any help? Yes it is. However it doesn't really Min-max the things in a way it is doing in Diablo III. That system is horrible to anything i played so far.

     

    Sorry that is just wrong.  I was in a dungeon just last night, and it was very apparent who had spec'ed and geared into a roll.  As they could survive much longer, and we're able to assist more.    That in itself makes things easier.   The problem at the moment are the weak links, ie those who haven't specialised their gear to their build.

      Well... i can really say that my only worry is that this may encourage elitism behaviour in future... Because, every MMORPG have those and that is hard to fight against. So yea, that may be my main worry about this system.

      This being said, i've been doing AC ex. mode yesterday with party of 3 Eles/1 Warr/1 Thief. Thief is friend of mine and he is professional FPS player. Warrior was just some random PUG guy. Thief and warrior were 80 already. When we was doing the Loutenant boss that casts hooks and stuff, while thief dodged and reflexed properly and helped a lot in dungeon, Warrior was dying and respawning all the time because he stayed in one place. Later on warrior just left the Raid without words and we had to bring someone new. When we find a substitution, raid became somewhat "normal", its probably because we knew what to do and how.

      In my opinion, you will still need to dodge/position/whatever properly or just "hurr durr, me got gear, me strong" will not help. 

      Keep in mind that i couldnt speculate about their gear at this moment, so i cant say more about that. I think that in the end it all comes down in who will practice their skill and know bosses scripts better.

    Main MMO at the moment: Guild Wars 2
    Waiting for: Pathfinder Online

  • grapevinegrapevine PeterboroughPosts: 1,927Member
    I'd not say it encourages elitism, as unlike other mmos they are still doable.  Just a team that actually understands the mechanics of gear and builds is going to find it a lot easier to progress.   They may even have the same skill level as others, but it does gives them the edge.
  • Loke666Loke666 MalmöPosts: 18,045Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Requiem1066

    Ok ty :) .. Just wanted to clarify that before my next question.

    You make a point that at lvl 80 the endgame content increases because you can go back and run previous dungeons ( like you can in anygame ) but outside of helping/fun .. what is the point in running a lvl 30/40/50 dungeon at lvl 80 ? 

    Personally i think they missed a trick .. the downscale the players, but they should have had the option to also upscale the dungeons ( RE: Lotro skirmish's ) .. So at lvl 80 you could run the lvl 30 dungeon again but on lvl 80 difficulty with lvl 80 rewards 

    I can answer that. I was just reading up a bit about AC since we will be doing it this weekend, or more specific ACs rewards.

    http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Historian_Symon

    As you see the dungeon have 2 armorsets, one 35 rare and one lvl 60 exotic. The in dungeon drops will be for your level whatever it is.

    So there is a point in doing the dungeon later as well.

  • everlandeverland EverlandPosts: 71Member
    Originally posted by dzoni87
    Originally posted by grapevine
    Originally posted by dzoni87
    Originally posted by nsignific

    Okay, but WHY would you need to balance your toon better?

     

    Things like that need a purpose. Is it really balanced, if it's not used anywhere? Does it just make stuff you've already done easier? That's horrible.

     

    You didn't really answer the question there. If it's just a quest to min/max your character, than that's the same sort of endgame Diablo 3 has. I don't really mind that, but is that really all there is?

    No, it doesnt make any of things easier. But is it really of any help? Yes it is. However it doesn't really Min-max the things in a way it is doing in Diablo III. That system is horrible to anything i played so far.

     

    Sorry that is just wrong.  I was in a dungeon just last night, and it was very apparent who had spec'ed and geared into a roll.  As they could survive much longer, and we're able to assist more.    That in itself makes things easier.   The problem at the moment are the weak links, ie those who haven't specialised their gear to their build.

      Well... i can really say that my only worry is that this may encourage elitism behaviour in future... Because, every MMORPG have those and that is hard to fight against. So yea, that may be my main worry about this system.

      This being said, i've been doing AC ex. mode yesterday with party of 3 Eles/1 Warr/1 Thief. Thief is friend of mine and he is professional FPS player. Warrior was just some random PUG guy. Thief and warrior were 80 already. When we was doing the Loutenant boss that casts hooks and stuff, while thief dodged and reflexed properly and helped a lot in dungeon, Warrior was dying and respawning all the time because he stayed in one place. Later on warrior just left the Raid without words and we had to bring someone new. When we find a substitution, raid became somewhat "normal", its probably because we knew what to do and how.

      In my opinion, you will still need to dodge/position/whatever properly or just "hurr durr, me got gear, me strong" will not help. 

      Keep in mind that i couldnt speculate about their gear at this moment, so i cant say more about that. I think that in the end it all comes down in who will practice their skill and know bosses scripts better.

    I was in dungeons with unexperienced players few times now. The ones you have to keep reviving and they do nothing, but slow you down. But people weren't really annoyed by them, just kept helping and giving hints how to do it right. So far community seems to be helpful.

    True, gear is only small percent of advantage, no matter how good gear I have I still have to dodge.

    I'm now 80 thief and every new gear I switch to is a tiny change to my statistics, but even if it's 2%, I still want it.

  • nsignificnsignific ljPosts: 212Member

    So there is in fact a trinity system, which the gear itemization exacerbates, no less. Eventually, you'll be labeled noob if you're not specced/geared "correctly" as per some theorycraft.

     

    We've been lied to.

  • Loke666Loke666 MalmöPosts: 18,045Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by everland

    I was in dungeons with unexperienced players few times now. The ones you have to keep reviving and they do nothing, but slow you down. But people weren't really annoyed by them, just kept helping and giving hints how to do it right. So far community seems to be helpful.

    True, gear is only small percent of advantage, no matter how good gear I have I still have to dodge.

    I'm now 80 thief and every new gear I switch to is a tiny change to my statistics, but even if it's 2%, I still want it.

    Everybody is a noob in the beginning and a little friendly helps beat being a jerk 99% of the times.

  • Loke666Loke666 MalmöPosts: 18,045Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by nsignific

    So there is in fact a trinity system, which the gear itemization exacerbates, no less. Eventually, you'll be labeled noob if you're not specced/geared "correctly" as per some theorycraft.

    We've been lied to.

    No, the trinity system is about tanks, healers and DPS (possible with CC and buffs as optional), there is nothing like that.

    But some builds are better than others and speccing yourself smartly will give you a lot more. You can specc yourself worthless in any game including gameswithout classes, trinity or anything like Darkfall and Mortal online.

    Random skills and gear is a lot worse than making a build for something. My thief is specced for speed, dodging and burst DPS. Others are more specced for stealth and a constant high DPS or AoE or whatever.

    There are many possibilities but you have to think when you make a build just like in GW1. I wont take skills for avoiding damage while setting stats and gear for stealth because I cant stealth, I have not the right skills setup for that.

  • dzoni87dzoni87 BelgradePosts: 541Member
    Originally posted by nsignific

    So there is in fact a trinity system, which the gear itemization exacerbates, no less. Eventually, you'll be labeled noob if you're not specced/geared "correctly" as per some theorycraft.

     

    We've been lied to.

      Keep in mind that the combat is not based around the Holly Trinity. There is no aggro management like in Holy Trinity and no heal will help you if you dont learn your tactics and positioning correctlly and got one-shotted.

    Main MMO at the moment: Guild Wars 2
    Waiting for: Pathfinder Online

  • evilastroevilastro EdinburghPosts: 4,270Member
    Originally posted by nsignific

    So there is in fact a trinity system, which the gear itemization exacerbates, no less. Eventually, you'll be labeled noob if you're not specced/geared "correctly" as per some theorycraft.

     

    We've been lied to.

    No not really. The person was getting terms confused. There are no tanks or healers, but if you pick a support role with traits you should back it up with gear choices that boost boon durations etc. Likewise if you focus on conditions you should focus your gear appropriately to increase condition damage and duration. Common sense stuff really.

    As for why you should run those dungeons at 80? Because it gives neat appearance gear.

  • Gaia_HunterGaia_Hunter BristolPosts: 2,829Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by nsignific

    So there is in fact a trinity system, which the gear itemization exacerbates, no less. Eventually, you'll be labeled noob if you're not specced/geared "correctly" as per some theorycraft.

     

    We've been lied to.

    That is because you haven't played the game and so don't understand what speccing in the context of GW2 means.

    Speccing in GW2 doesn't mean being a tank, a healer or DPS.

    Speccing in GW2 is:

    - How do you deal damage?

    Conditon damage, Raw damage, by effects associaated with critical hits or do you boost you damage based in boons?

    - What utility skills do you bring?

    Do you use grenades and so spec to deal more damage with grenades, or do you use shouts and so make your shouts recharge faster and heal other people when you use them. Do you use boons so it is a good idea to increase boon duration and get a trait that increases the damage you deal based on the number of boons you have.

    - How are you helping your team?

    By throwing boons around, CCing the enemy, making the enemy weaker with conditions? Or maybe you can make your team invisible or rez really fast. Maybe you have some nice combo fields - are the other players eqquiped to take advantage of them?

    - How are you surviving?

    You have traits that let you get extra endurance so you can dodge more ofen? You have blocks? Maybe you have a sigil on your weapon that has a chance to steal life or cast regen on you  on hit or on crit? Maybe you have some trait that makes you invulnerable once you are under 25% health? Maybe you can break CC? Or maybe you have higher than usual toughness or your heals are really strong.

     

    This is GW2 speccing - choosing a set of weapons, skills, runes, sigils, attributes and traits that work together well.

    Currently playing: GW2
    Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders

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