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So it begins

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  • david361107david361107 chattanooga, TNPosts: 279Member

    Another thought,

     

    Endgame, this is another thing I'm hear here and elsewhere. Something about there is no endgame? you just go back to lower levels and your toon goes down with you and you just keep playing? Endgame is the biggest part of retention, need more dungeons, more PVP that matters and goals that you can reach that keep you wanting to log in. Now this part of the game I'm not totally sure about but if I was talking to a Dev I would recommend this, and it seems pretty easy because it's the same bitching about every new MMO.

    1. Endgame- Don't have one or two raids on release date, have 10 and 3 of those are epic. PVP Endgame, have a point and make it fun.

    2. Combat- Something a little different is nice, like AOC did and Tera, from what i hear GW2 also has a little change in combat which is a good thing.

    3. Social- easy to group up- seems GW2 has worked on this as well so good job

    4- Guilds- rankings and purpose

    5- semi hardcore- The casual gamers are not going to stick around, your hardcore will and they will bring the casuals

    6- Open world- Everyone hates loading screen again and again- Not sure how GW2 did with this.

     

    That's just a few so feel free to add to it. But Peeps please, we all know these little things so why don't they?

     

    Peace

    Lascer

  • VikingGamerVikingGamer Nowhere, TXPosts: 1,347Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by david361107

    Been watching Guild Wars 2 for little over a year now and still haven't pulled the trigger and got the game. I've learned over the years to wait and watch these boards and see what threads start popping up a week or two after launch. Red flags are, one week out and people have hit level cap, saying there is nothing to do, this game is great..but, i'm getting bored. These are all things i watch for and yes I know some people just flame to get a reaction but you can kind of see those and push them to the side. From what i'm reading Guild Wars 2 is a good game but it's simply another dumbed down sandbox MMO that's fun for a couple of weeks but isn't really holding everyones attention. So is this just trolls or is this the beginning of the end for GW2?

     

    Peace

    Lascer

    I think I found where you went wrong. Forums are the absolute worst place to get your information.

    All die, so die well.

  • david361107david361107 chattanooga, TNPosts: 279Member
    Originally posted by VikingGamer
    Originally posted by david361107

    Been watching Guild Wars 2 for little over a year now and still haven't pulled the trigger and got the game. I've learned over the years to wait and watch these boards and see what threads start popping up a week or two after launch. Red flags are, one week out and people have hit level cap, saying there is nothing to do, this game is great..but, i'm getting bored. These are all things i watch for and yes I know some people just flame to get a reaction but you can kind of see those and push them to the side. From what i'm reading Guild Wars 2 is a good game but it's simply another dumbed down sandbox MMO that's fun for a couple of weeks but isn't really holding everyones attention. So is this just trolls or is this the beginning of the end for GW2?

     

    Peace

    Lascer

    I think I found where you went wrong. Forums are the absolute worst place to get your information.

    Actually i have to disagree with this. MMORPG has some of the most ruthless members of any site, you just have to kind of scroll past the trolls, they are pretty easy to pick out. But for the most part the members here are pretty honest for the most part.

  • gessekai332gessekai332 New York City, NYPosts: 877Member Common
    Originally posted by david361107

    Everyone, thanks for all the responses

     

    First I ment Themepark not sandbox, I think everyone has pointed that out..haha. Anyway, my point here is that you can look at forums from past MMO's and understand what I mean. with GW2 I'm starting to see this in the forums, the i'm bored and this is a pretty easy mmo, just things like that and it worries me because I want ever AAA MMO to be great. Not everyone is going to like every game but I was really hopping not to start hearing this about GW2 but as I said, "so it begins". A buddy and me almost went out and got this game but I said we need to hold out a little longer. I just hate getting a game, loading it up and start playing just to see guilds falling apart, group hard to find and people just not logging in. Concerns with GW2 that i have is the feel of accomplishment. Now this is only what i hear, GW2 PVP bumps you to level 80, still don't like this, you level jumps up and down depending on what zone you are in? how does this help make you feel? to me i really don't like this part either. I prefer that if I'm level 20 I should be owned by a level 50 and thats that. So then I'm like, man i need to be level 50 so that doesn't happen again or whatever. If just the level bumps up and down like this I'm not crazy about. But my total point here is there is threads here and everywhere that are starting to pop up and they are not that good of news, kind of sad actually.

     

    Peace

    Lascer

    no mattIer what any troll will tell you, you will not see "guilds falling apart and grouping hard to come by." if you see people talking in game you will find that they are all enjoying themselves. the population is still exploding and the servers are still overflowing with people. Now is a good time to come in because most of the major bugs have been cleared up recently. GW2 is very different in that it rewards people that like to do a variety of things (questing, dungeons, exploration, achievements, pvp, faction wars, crafting) since all of these areas are very polished but at the same time it can be crippling to people who just rush to 80 and skip over most of the game (you will be dead broke when if you try to do this). If you talk to some of the rushers out there you will find that they only unlocked maybe 30% of the total world completion, which is extremely small for reaching max lvl.

    all the people i have personally brought into the game are loving it.

    Most memorable games: AoC(Tryanny PvP), RIFT, GW, GW2, Ragnarok Online, Aion, FFXI, FFXIV, Secret World, League of Legends (Silver II rank)

  • VikingGamerVikingGamer Nowhere, TXPosts: 1,347Member Uncommon

    It is also worth pointing out that explorable mode dungeons are HARD. really Hard. They are not your normal leveling content. You have to have an organized team where people know how to play to their character's strengths and know how to setup and use combos together. It takes real skill and practice. In that respect, explorables are endgame quality content. The difference is, you don't have to wait for level cap to attempt them.

    GW2 has endgame. It is spread all over and though out the rest of the game and not just not reserved exclusively to post level cap.

    All die, so die well.

  • jmcdermottukjmcdermottuk LiverpoolPosts: 976Member Uncommon

    There's always doom and gloom posts with every new MMO release. Most are out and out trolling, sometimes there are legitimate concerns. Look at SWTOR for example, that was legitimate concern that caused the number of negative posts.

    As far as GW2 goes, I'm tempted to say 70% are trolls and the remaining 30% are legit. Yes there are a few problems. Security has been a problem due to 3rd party sites being hacked and the usernames and passwords are re-used in GW2. This has caused some problems but it's not Anet's direct fault. Some things have been down (trading post) again mainly due to the heavy usage.

    In a way this bodes well for the game. At least we can deduce that GW2 sold more copies than Anet though they would. As of right now, everything seems to be working as intended. People hitting 80 (freaks) already is nothing new for today's MMO's but the idea that there's nothing to do is laughable. These are people with no imagination who have to be hand held each step of the way to content. Ignore them.

    Then there's the ones who claim that no gear grind means no end game. Well opinions will vary on that. I welcome the fact that gear is not so important. I'd rather be beaten by / beat another player due to skill rather than gearscore. W v W is a barrel of laughs, and queue times will reduce once the idiots go back to WoW and server populations adjust. There's a whole world of PvE content to see and it's ALL relevant no matter what level you are. XP and loot rewards are level appropriate even for someone L80 in a 15-25 zone.

     

    If you're prepared to look for content, it's there. It just takes a brain to think it through. Unfortunately most MMO players today have been weaned off this radical idea of using a brain to play, what with all the addons and macros and stuck on rails game design.

    GW2 is a breath of fresh air in a very stale market. This isn't rabid fanboy talk. If the game was crap I'd be the first to say so but I personally haven't had this much fun in maybe 10 years. About the time ToA ruined DAoC.

  • NitthNitth AustraliaPosts: 3,684Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by WolfClaws
    You do push buttons to attack.  But you have to time your attacks and moves so you can be successful.  It is not a sandbox, but you are free to roam whereever you want,

    Lets be honest here, Its neither sandbox or free roam..

    image
    TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development

  • VikingGamerVikingGamer Nowhere, TXPosts: 1,347Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by david361107
    Originally posted by VikingGamer
    Originally posted by david361107

    Been watching Guild Wars 2 for little over a year now and still haven't pulled the trigger and got the game. I've learned over the years to wait and watch these boards and see what threads start popping up a week or two after launch. Red flags are, one week out and people have hit level cap, saying there is nothing to do, this game is great..but, i'm getting bored. These are all things i watch for and yes I know some people just flame to get a reaction but you can kind of see those and push them to the side. From what i'm reading Guild Wars 2 is a good game but it's simply another dumbed down sandbox MMO that's fun for a couple of weeks but isn't really holding everyones attention. So is this just trolls or is this the beginning of the end for GW2?

     

    Peace

    Lascer

    I think I found where you went wrong. Forums are the absolute worst place to get your information.

    Actually i have to disagree with this. MMORPG has some of the most ruthless members of any site, you just have to kind of scroll past the trolls, they are pretty easy to pick out. But for the most part the members here are pretty honest for the most part.

    I can agree with you there. But it takes some work to distinquish signal from noise. There are some posters that I know will give a reasoned opinion. But watching these boards, or any others, in general is not what we do. Sifting these boards is what might be useful. But trying to get a general feel for how a community is reacting to a game? Naw, to many posters here with an axe to grind to get that kind of information.

    All die, so die well.

  • tachiboitachiboi New York, NYPosts: 30Member Uncommon
    I think nowdays people are just MMOHoppers. 
  • VikingGamerVikingGamer Nowhere, TXPosts: 1,347Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Nitth

     


    Originally posted by WolfClaws
    You do push buttons to attack.  But you have to time your attacks and moves so you can be successful.  It is not a sandbox, but you are free to roam whereever you want,

     

    Lets be honest here, Its neither sandbox or free roam..

    I think it does pretty much allow you to free roam. Aside from not being high enough level or an area there is no restrictions on what order you take things in. Quests in one area don't unlock quests in the next hub. But the game does point out a somewhat logical path using the scouts to lead you though a zone if you choose to be lead but that is not the same as restricting a players path through a zone.

    All die, so die well.

  • NitthNitth AustraliaPosts: 3,684Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by VikingGamer

    Originally posted by Nitth  

    Originally posted by WolfClaws You do push buttons to attack.  But you have to time your attacks and moves so you can be successful.  It is not a sandbox, but you are free to roam whereever you want,
      Lets be honest here, Its neither sandbox or free roam..
    I think it does pretty much allow you to free roam. Aside from not being high enough level or an area there is no restrictions on what order you take things in. Quests in one area don't unlock quests in the next hub. But the game does point out a somewhat logical path using the scouts to lead you though a zone if you choose to be lead but that is not the same as restricting a players path through a zone.

    On that basses nearly all themparks are free roam, world of warcraft included.

    True free roam is not restricted by mountains, invisible walls or zone level requirements.

    image
    TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development

  • Loke666Loke666 MalmöPosts: 17,949Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by david361107

    Been watching Guild Wars 2 for little over a year now and still haven't pulled the trigger and got the game. I've learned over the years to wait and watch these boards and see what threads start popping up a week or two after launch. Red flags are, one week out and people have hit level cap, saying there is nothing to do, this game is great..but, i'm getting bored. These are all things i watch for and yes I know some people just flame to get a reaction but you can kind of see those and push them to the side. From what i'm reading Guild Wars 2 is a good game but it's simply another dumbed down sandbox MMO that's fun for a couple of weeks but isn't really holding everyones attention. So is this just trolls or is this the beginning of the end for GW2?

    Peace

    Lascer

    It really depends on who you are. If you are a raider or powerleveler then you might want to stay away, as you see yourself those are having about 95% of the complains right now.

    If you like exploration and arent in a hurry it is a great game.

    The dungeons are really tough, so dumbed down is not exactly true. Heck, plenty of people complaining about the difficulty in the noob zones already.

    And since you cant have that many skills at the same time compared to Wow it also gets complains but trust me who plays a thief, skill rotation wont get you past level 5, you need to time the skills and move a lot while you use them.

    If you still are unsure, wait until they get a trial running. That will most likely take a month or 2.

    And it is not just trolls, the game are not for all players but for the ones it is made for it is excellent.

  • Stx11Stx11 West Hills, CAPosts: 415Member
    Originally posted by david361107

    Another thought,

    Endgame, this is another thing I'm hear here and elsewhere. Something about there is no endgame? you just go back to lower levels and your toon goes down with you and you just keep playing? Endgame is the biggest part of retention, need more dungeons, more PVP that matters and goals that you can reach that keep you wanting to log in. Now this part of the game I'm not totally sure about but if I was talking to a Dev I would recommend this, and it seems pretty easy because it's the same bitching about every new MMO.

    1. Endgame- Don't have one or two raids on release date, have 10 and 3 of those are epic. PVP Endgame, have a point and make it fun.

    2. Combat- Something a little different is nice, like AOC did and Tera, from what i hear GW2 also has a little change in combat which is a good thing.

    3. Social- easy to group up- seems GW2 has worked on this as well so good job

    4- Guilds- rankings and purpose

    5- semi hardcore- The casual gamers are not going to stick around, your hardcore will and they will bring the casuals

    6- Open world- Everyone hates loading screen again and again- Not sure how GW2 did with this.

    That's just a few so feel free to add to it. But Peeps please, we all know these little things so why don't they?

    Peace

    Lascer

    Ok, if you really have followed these forums for years you would know that every person saying they are bored or having issues with the game have either been critical of it before it launched (if not outright hater/trolls), have post counts in the single digits, or have admitted they have "an axe to grind" with "GW2 Fanbois" for their perceived ruthless assaults on "their" games.

    The fans of the game are still enjoying the game. Several skeptics have become fans. What you haven't seen here is a "BadSpock/DarkPony" incident where a huge fanboi of the game has become completely discouraged.

    Now as for your list - there are 3 entire Endgame ZONES with "raid-like" challenging content. You won't see the Trolls talking about that for awhile because the people who actually rushed there seem to be enjoying it quite a bit and the haters don't have enough info to fake a post about it.

    It's the same way the haters have yet to talk about the Explorable Mode dungeons in detail - the people doing them are finding them quite challenging.

    Guilds definitely have an entire Rank/Improvement system. A player can join multiple Guilds in the game but only Represent one Guild on a character at a time. While Representing, you earn Influence for the Guild which the Guild Leader can use for a wide variety of PvE, PvP, QoL, and Crafting upgrades (including Guild Vendors and Specialty Merchants).

    The "hardcore" scene for this game so far is sPvP and WvW. It isn't a raid-grinder and likely never will be. I expect some really cool Live Events and additional free content over the next year or two while they work on the first expansion but this is a game for "hardcore Completionists" and PvPers not gear-grind Raiders.

  • ClobClob St. Cloud, MNPosts: 130Member
    Originally posted by david361107

    Been watching Guild Wars 2 for little over a year now and still haven't pulled the trigger and got the game. I've learned over the years to wait and watch these boards and see what threads start popping up a week or two after launch. Red flags are, one week out and people have hit level cap, saying there is nothing to do, this game is great..but, i'm getting bored. These are all things i watch for and yes I know some people just flame to get a reaction but you can kind of see those and push them to the side. From what i'm reading Guild Wars 2 is a good game but it's simply another dumbed down sandbox MMO that's fun for a couple of weeks but isn't really holding everyones attention. So is this just trolls or is this the beginning of the end for GW2?

     

    Peace

    Lascer

    I'd reconsider your decision to base what games you play by what people write on forums, especially this one.  A lot of the stuff written about all the games is quite questionable.  Honestly, I really don't know how anyone could end up playing any game if they watch for "red flags" on here before buying.  And again, GW2 is a b2p game, not your typical paperweight if you don't pay monthly for a sub.  I don't understand how anybody couldn't get $60 out of this game.  

     I'll tell you this -  I've played or tried most of the major mmo's that have come out in the last several years and none of them have given me those lost feelings of  "can't wait to login," "can't get myself to log out," "can't stop thinking about what I'm going to do when I'm able to login," that GW2 has given me once again.  I can almost always find some enjoyment in any game.  Some just have too many things that I don't like so I can't keep playing.  I'm having a blast in GW2 and just can't stop taking screenshots.  It's completely baffling to me that I'm reading a few "I'm bored with it" comments.  Having at least tried most mmo's, as I've said, I'm having a hard time figuring out what games on earth these people manage to play long term. ?  I'M actually learning that forums truly suck for nearly everything that contains personal opinion ---- because people suck. :P  

  • cointermcointerm New York City, NYPosts: 47Member
    Originally posted by tachiboi
    I think nowdays people are just MMOHoppers. 

    I'm inclined to agree, and that's why Guild Wars has staying power.

     

     

    "In a subscription model you are asking players to make a choice every month, and it is a fairly drastic choice: Stay married, or get divorced? It is certainly the case that if every player decides to stay married every month, you can make more money from each player in the subscription model. But that will rarely be the case, and not something that you should count on. Every month, some percentage of your player base will decide on divorce, and as with marriage in the real word, once you are divorced you rarely get married to the same person again. If you go the subscription route, you'll need to have the confidence that your marriage rate will exceed your divorce rate.

    With Guild Wars we ask players to make a choice only one time, and that choice is whether to buy the game, or not to buy the game. While we don't enjoy a recurring revenue stream each month, we do benefit from the fact that most Guild Wars players come back to the game when we release new content, so we are less concerned about players putting the game down for a few months. Players don't have to decide whether to stay married or get divorced, they just have to decide whether they want to play today or not. Beyond the benefit of a lower pain threshold to get into the game, this is the core strength of the Guild Wars business model, and one of the reasons it continues to thrive when many other subscription-based MMOs are struggling."

     

    That's from the much-linked, little-read (because it's the size of a novella) developer conference speech by Jeff Strain.

     

    To the OP, I could post metacritic scores, or fanatical reviews, but in all honesty, no one can say if you'll enjoy the game or not....that's all based on your personal tastes. I'd put forth betting money, though, that GW2 is not going away any time soon.

  • VengerVenger York, PAPosts: 1,318Member

    One it's not a sandbox game.

    Two the people that have already hit max level and are whining about being bored will never be happy with anything release because these "games" are not meant to be played like a second job.  

    If you play games like a second job then yes you will chew thru GW2 contant pretty quickly.  But if you are like a average gamer and only play games about 20 hours or so a week and not be the ADHD gamer 'OMFG I HAVE TO GET TO END GAME!!!!!!" GW2 will keep you happy for a while.

    I'm only 29 but I explore some, screw around with crafting, do some event over again that I liked.

     

  • TafaleTafale HaugesundPosts: 37Member
    Originally posted by Venger

    One it's not a sandbox game.

    Two the people that have already hit max level and are whining about being bored will never be happy with anything release because these "games" are not meant to be played like a second job.  

    If you play games like a second job then yes you will chew thru GW2 contant pretty quickly.  But if you are like a average gamer and only play games about 20 hours or so a week and not be the ADHD gamer 'OMFG I HAVE TO GET TO END GAME!!!!!!" GW2 will keep you happy for a while.

    I'm only 29 but I explore some, screw around with crafting, do some event over again that I liked.

     

    I trust rushers (usually just people focusing on one character and with good amount of free time to play) always more than slow levelers since they've experienced more and have some idea about how the game is later on. Just an example is TSW where many said the rushers did the content too fast, wrong, etc but the slow levelers were generally proven wrong later on when experiencing it for themselves (going from defenders of the game to a more meh attitude).

     

    I will most likely get GW2 tomorrow but I'm prepared with low expectations and will hopefully be proven wrong in the end (at least if I get a month's worth with decent playtime and 100% world map and testing stuff out before getting bored then that is ok since it's B2P).

  • gurugeorgegurugeorge LondonPosts: 480Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by david361107

    Been watching Guild Wars 2 for little over a year now and still haven't pulled the trigger and got the game. I've learned over the years to wait and watch these boards and see what threads start popping up a week or two after launch. Red flags are, one week out and people have hit level cap, saying there is nothing to do, this game is great..but, i'm getting bored. These are all things i watch for and yes I know some people just flame to get a reaction but you can kind of see those and push them to the side. From what i'm reading Guild Wars 2 is a good game but it's simply another dumbed down sandbox MMO that's fun for a couple of weeks but isn't really holding everyones attention. So is this just trolls or is this the beginning of the end for GW2?

     

    Peace

    Lascer

    I've never seen an MMO without those complaints.  People were hitting 60 in a week when WoW started.  If you used that sort of nonsense as a bellwether, you'd never play any MMO.

    Forget about watching for things, just try the game.  Even if you did only play it for a month it would still be well worth the money, wouldn't it?

  • Stx11Stx11 West Hills, CAPosts: 415Member
    Originally posted by Tafale

    I trust rushers (usually just people focusing on one character and with good amount of free time to play) always more than slow levelers since they've experienced more and have some idea about how the game is later on. Just an example is TSW where many said the rushers did the content too fast, wrong, etc but the slow levelers were generally proven wrong later on when experiencing it for themselves (going from defenders of the game to a more meh attitude).

     

    I will most likely get GW2 tomorrow but I'm prepared with low expectations and will hopefully be proven wrong in the end (at least if I get a month's worth with decent playtime and 100% world map and testing stuff out before getting bored then that is ok since it's B2P).

    Three things different about GW2 compared to WoW-Clone Themeparks that confound "rushers"

    1. Not all content (DEs) are active and available at all times meaning rushers don't see it all.
    2. 100% Map Completion in GW2 is the "beginning" not the "ending" of a Zone as many DEs are off the beaten path and you won't see them "just following the Hearts" so once again rushers won't see it all.
    3. Level Scaling means DEs (especially the more challenging Group DEs) are always "viable content" for the people who enjoy it.

    If you are a "Sandbox Fan" who never ever wants to see the same content twice, you might enjoy playing through GW2 a time or two and then you'll be done (and it'll likely give you far more hours of play than most single player games out while costing the same).

    If you are a Themepark player, unless the only thing that motivates you is "Skinner-box Gear Grind Progression" you can wander the world in addition to the dungeons and WvW and experience and re-experience lots of fun and enjoyable encounters.

    When I completed all the quests in a zone in WoW it was done with no point to return unless there were a few Rep Dailies to do or Crafting Mats to gather. After a point the mobs were gray (or as good as if it was a max level zone as I geared up in Epics) making the already limited challenge non-existent.

    TSW was a bit better although in some ways more frustrating. All the Quests were Daily so I could repeat my favorite ones... on their schedule, and if they were an early zone one I'd have to swap out my gear to maintain the challenge (although I applaud them for at least giving me that option).

    In GW2 that doesn't happen to anywhere close the same extent (you do get more powerful and much of the content becomes easier when down-leveled due to Traits and Gear, but especially with the Group DEs not trivially so). For those who enjoy it, the content in GW2 simply remains much more viable for much longer than any Themepark we've seen in recent years.

     

    (and this doesn't include ANet living up to their promise of potentially doubling the 1500 DEs in game over the coming years further changing the experience as you play through Zones - based on what I saw over the BWEs I think they are good for it, but we haven't seen it "live" yet so not going to count it)

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